I was wondering what some of your opinions were on Jenkins from Ohio State. He was essentially guaranteed to go before 15 until his less than stellar 40-time at the combine. While he's still likely to go before us, it looks like there is at least a chance he falls. My question is would you be opposed or in favor of taking him as a safety if he's there at 15 (however small a chance that is)?
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Malcolm Jenkins
- Thread starter was385
- Start date
I don't think he'll fall out of the top 10. Once he has his pro day on the track at Ohio St. he'll erase that slow time and post a good one and once he does he'll go right back up those draft charts. If he were to fall to us, I'd pick him and then go buy a lottery ticket the same day cause luck was on our side.
Goatcheese
Texan
He won't be there. The surface at the new stadium in Indy is roughly .06 slower than the old dome surface. His 4.53 would have been a 4.47 last year, and nobody would have knocked him for that. In an interview he said he was running 4.44 in training, and if he get's close to that at his pro day, then he'll be back in the top 5 conversation.
I don't like the idea of moving him to safety either. The guy is a corner, and has a corner's mentality about football. Drafting a guy high in the first, and then trying to make him something he isn't is doomed to failure. If drafted as a corner, he just doesn't fit the Texans system, and would end up falling short of his potential.
I don't like the idea of moving him to safety either. The guy is a corner, and has a corner's mentality about football. Drafting a guy high in the first, and then trying to make him something he isn't is doomed to failure. If drafted as a corner, he just doesn't fit the Texans system, and would end up falling short of his potential.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I don't think he tackles well enough to be our last line of defense. I'd love him as a CB though.
bah007
Hall of Fame
This
bah007
Hall of Fame
P
Polo
Guest
I'd take him unless someone offered me something juicy in a trade up.
In a heart beat. Be it Free Safty or Corner. Play maker.
...
badboy
Hall of Fame
Guy is considered best CB available prior to combine based on his college performance. He runs a slow 40 and drops, uh something wrong here. I agree with others that he will run faster but he did good in college if the "slow" 40 turns out correct. Unless Raji or Orakpo there at #15, Jenkins is my guy to answer your question but only as a corner.
1. CB Jenkins 2. DE Robert Ayers 3. FS Rashad Johnson
1. CB Jenkins 2. DE Robert Ayers 3. FS Rashad Johnson
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I'd be really happy if the 1st three rounds turned out that way!
badboy
Hall of Fame
To be sure and we still have 2 4ths and a 5th!
Everyone I have a great weekend. Outta here! Steve
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
So you guys are posting you're going to load up the back four with all stars and out cover Manning ? Good Luck with that one.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I'm starting to lean towards the draft for the lines in the first round argument.
I think there is no such thing as a great QB, just look at DeAngelo Hall, great CB, gets cut CB, get huge contract CB.... still the same guy. (Except far richer)
There is just too much influence from how they fit in the system and who they are playing with.
I think there is no such thing as a great QB, just look at DeAngelo Hall, great CB, gets cut CB, get huge contract CB.... still the same guy. (Except far richer)
There is just too much influence from how they fit in the system and who they are playing with.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I have real questions now if the bridges have been burned with Dunta? if this is the case the Texans almost have to address CB early. problem is, its a weak class, there are no Leodis McKelvin or Dominique Rodgers Cromartie. much better value later in 2nd/3rd like Darius Butler, Connecticut 5-10 183 ran 4.4 with 43" vertical. a pure cover corner similar to Dunta Robinson.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I like Butler as well.
What would suggest Dunta is a pure cover corner? Or better yet, please provide your definition of a pure cover corner and cite some examples.
rickyb
Scarlet is hot.
That would be awesome. Assuming Jenkins is gone, should we reach for someone like CB Alphonso?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
think you might have hit on something like a combination of first trading down from #15 (taking Alphonso) then using the added package to move back up earlier to select Ayers.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
simply put- the ability to handle coverage man to man. plays with back to ball, can mirror & slide with receiver downfield, must have good to excellent speed with fluid/loose hips & ability to compete for ball position narrowing the window for QB to hit. I would put Dunta in this class post Deion Sanders w/o the elite recovery speed. best example from last years draft is of course Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. his job is to neutralize the other teams best WR in single or man to man coverage.
In the Texans case this was Dunta's role before injured. Jacques Reeves was brought in last offseason to fill his void but as seen early on he lacked the ball skills needed to be in position to make plays. you could watch him improve as the season went along, blessed with good speed (I'm guessing its sub 4.5) & fluid hips to improve his positioning to see & make more plays on the ball.
I just don't see Malcolm becoming an elite cover corner. has excellent size & physical presence to play more up on the line of scrimmage in run support, blitz packages & cover 2.
bah007
Hall of Fame
And by all stars what do you mean?
Out of our four spots in the secondary how many guys do we have that could step in and start for most the other teams in the league?
A good pass rush makes things easier on your secondary and a good secondary gives your pass rushers more time to get to the QB.
If Jenkins is the best player on the board at #15, what do you think we should do then?
TexansFan33
DW33
First I want to say NO to William Moore, and then if Jenkins is there at 15 we pull the trigger UNLESS we can get Malauga.
badboy
Hall of Fame
No. I am cool with Dunta being upset now, but come game 1, he will be a force. If not up to it physically, we have only one year $. Good business decision. If he doesn't cooperate next season franchise him again. He had a reasonable offer. I think our corps of CBs wil be ok without a draft pick. I'd go Jenkins at #15 due to his overwhelming value and only if Raji not there. We now have our DE that was one of 3 basic priorities and maybe Benson to handle RB role. If he signs as a FA, I still want at least one more RB as insurance as we have not done well lately with FA backs. I am still mulling my new draft plan but like:
1. Raji or if not there a trade down 2. Rashad Jenning RB if there you get him rather than miss on a lesser talent day two that might not be there. 3. Rashad Johnson FS again he might be there in 4th but get him 4a Canfield O.G. 4b. Daniel Holtsclaw ILB 5th If Ron Brace is there in 2nd( & we did not get Raji) which I'm beginning to doubt I'd take him and here in 5th take Cedric Peerman RB. Here's a surprise for you, if we get Jennings in round two, I'd look strong at WR Aaron Kelly 6'5" 204 lbs 4.49. 38" vertical from Clemson.
I want to juggle this a bit more but this weekend pick ups makes it even more fun.
rollinstone18
let it bleed
I wouldn't be opposed to William Moore in the 2nd (I'd rather get a NT, though). Moore and Wilson wouldn't be a bad pair in the secondary. And if he shows the range, he could patrol center when Wilson's contract is up.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
A fast 40 time does not a good CB make and vice versa. I don't care what his 40 was all I know is the kid was a darn good CB in college and that should translate to the NFL no matter what his workout looked like.
You now there was a CB a couple of years ago who ran a slow 40 time at the combine and his draft stock fell, but he's a pretty decent player nowadays. Btw that guy's name was Nnamdi Asomugha.
You now there was a CB a couple of years ago who ran a slow 40 time at the combine and his draft stock fell, but he's a pretty decent player nowadays. Btw that guy's name was Nnamdi Asomugha.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I've noticed that he is better in zone than in man coverage.
But I would say he is still pretty good man to man.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I agree. There's a saying that's very much true: a good throw beats good coverage every time. Furthermore, Good Qb's tend to find their guys regardless & you're not going to be able to out cover the mannings & bradys which by the way we have to see 3 times this year...& if warner resigns with Ariz...u can expect to see him this year as well.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
Daunta Robinson flew up our very own Texans' draft board after blazing his 40-yard dash in under 4.4. He didn't have experience coming out of college compared to most CB's as he only played CB his last 2 seasons. Just to play devil's advocate.
Goatcheese
Texan
Daunta Robinson flew up our very own Texans' draft board after blazing his 40-yard dash in under 4.4. He didn't have experience coming out of college compared to most CB's as he only played CB his last 2 seasons. Just to play devil's advocate.
A blazing 40 can put you on the radar, and get people to take another look at your gameplay. But they(atleast the good teams) still base their pick on your play on the field.
If I see a guy who can flat out play football I'm not going to let a slow sprint in shorts affect things. Rey rey would go undrafted with his 4.9 40 if that were the case.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
I was just playing Devil's advocate. Robinson ran a 4.34 and had a low time of 4.26. It's hard to say his time didn't help him get drafted. I couldn't find his career stats, but he couldn't have been drafted for his cover skills because they aren't there even to this day. He had 4 ints his Junior year I believe, but nothing special...other than his blazing speed.
Goatcheese
Texan
Are you trying to say that the Texans under C&C were a good team? I always though D-Rob was a shot in the dark by a bunch of retards, and they just managed to get lucky and hit something.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Doesn't it frighten you guys just a tad that some scouts are putting FS next to his name ? I just do not like reaching for DBs when it is a bad class for the group. Especially corners. See Travis Johnson.
Tell me we're moving back and taking Smith or Delmas and or Rashad...ok. Smith fits the profile of what they've been drafting. Delmas and Johnson assumes were changing past habits. Darius Butler made him some money at the combine. Supply and demand...if you're hurting for a corner...they'll be a run on them. another thought is just this ...how long did they live with greenwood at LB and Weaver on the D line ? Going to take a lot moving Revees out of the starting line up. I agree they will take a safety. I think the second day is a lot more likely than the first day.
"Jenkins, who is being looked at as a safety as well as a cornerback due to slow times in the 40, tried to improve on his 40 numbers at the pro day, but was unsuccessful. He turned in times of 4.58 and 4.55 in Columbus after running between 4.52 and 4.58 at the NFL combine in Indianapolis (4.55 or quicker is considered ideal for NFL corners). He stood on the rest of his numbers from the combine."
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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I dunno but this is maybe good news for the Texans ?
Obviously if he's a sub 4.5 guy he never makes it to 15 but the Texans might consider using their 15th for him ? Possibly another option, even as a
FS ?
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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I dunno but this is maybe good news for the Texans ?
Obviously if he's a sub 4.5 guy he never makes it to 15 but the Texans might consider using their 15th for him ? Possibly another option, even as a
FS ?
bah007
Hall of Fame
He's a good player. The more good players that drop, the better it is for us.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Well Malcom Jenkins doesn't look like some great shut down corner to me. He looks like he'll be good and all, but I think he is very over rated. I hope that he doesn't drop to us, because if so I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted him.
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beerlover
Hall of Fame
to solidify the secondary I've been on the Butler, Davis, Smith bandwagon so you don't have to convince me about the Texans addressing this need early. However Jenkins in my mind is a pipedream, he is a solid, productive player who is NFL ready I don't care what he runs, he would be a steal 
While 40 times aren't very important, actually downright irrelavant for many positions that's not the case for CBs. Especially if a team runs a defense which features primarily man-coverage for its corners like the Texans do or have done up to this point in time. Maybe that changes under Frank Bush ?
But Reeves, Mouldin, and Bennet are all sub 4.5 40 guys and the 2 we drafted are 3rd and 4th rounders. We took D-Rob #10 in the Draft in '04 but he was a low 4.3s guy.
Therefor if we continue with the present kind of defensive schemes for our DBacks I dunno how we can use the 15th pick in the first round on a DB who's not really suited to play CB for us ? And that high of pick on a FS that nobdy has suggested is remotely like a Taylor Mays or a LeRon Landry in terms of physicality (or even speed) makes me wonder how the Texans would make that move ?
But Reeves, Mouldin, and Bennet are all sub 4.5 40 guys and the 2 we drafted are 3rd and 4th rounders. We took D-Rob #10 in the Draft in '04 but he was a low 4.3s guy.
Therefor if we continue with the present kind of defensive schemes for our DBacks I dunno how we can use the 15th pick in the first round on a DB who's not really suited to play CB for us ? And that high of pick on a FS that nobdy has suggested is remotely like a Taylor Mays or a LeRon Landry in terms of physicality (or even speed) makes me wonder how the Texans would make that move ?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
low 4.3? I don't ever remember Dunta being that fast, perhaps my memory is failing due to my recent spat of old age. Anyway, the difference between a 4.5 and a 4.4 is barely measurable on the field, especially when a player has a high football IQ. For example, I don't think Greenwood is any slower than DeMeco but DeMeco will already be moving towards the ball when Greenwood was trying to figure out what direction he should be pointed.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
I don't remember Dunta being a low 4.3 either. I do remember DeAngelo Hall being the fastest corner in that draft and being drafted ahead of Dunta and generally being more coveted by most teams.
I think Hall is a great example to show how the 40 time is not that important towards being a good corner. I think Jenkins is probably the best defensive back in this draft, and for that reason alone, he will go very early in the draft...i'd say Top 10 no-brainer. In other years, he may have gone lower but with the dearth of quality defensive backs in this draft, his value skyrockets...whether it be as CB or FS.
I think Hall is a great example to show how the 40 time is not that important towards being a good corner. I think Jenkins is probably the best defensive back in this draft, and for that reason alone, he will go very early in the draft...i'd say Top 10 no-brainer. In other years, he may have gone lower but with the dearth of quality defensive backs in this draft, his value skyrockets...whether it be as CB or FS.
It is my 4.3 Combine Club.
Fabian Washington, Nebraska, 4.25
Triandos Luke, Alabama, 4.30
Jonathan Joseph, South Carolina, 4.32
Jonathan Carte,r Troy State, 4.33
Tim Jennings, Georgia, 4.34
Dunta Robinson, South Carolina, 4.34
Domonique, Foxworth Maryland, 4.34
Joseph Jefferson, Western Kentucky, 4.35
Josh Wilson, Maryland, 4.35
Willie Reid, Florida State, 4.36
David Clowney, Virginia Tech, 4.36
Matt Jones ,Arkansas, 4.37
Leron McCoy, Indiana Pennsylvania, 4.38
Nick Collins, Bethune Cookman, 4.38
http://www.parisischool.com/highlights.asp
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OK, mid 4.3s. Close enough ?
Fabian Washington, Nebraska, 4.25
Triandos Luke, Alabama, 4.30
Jonathan Joseph, South Carolina, 4.32
Jonathan Carte,r Troy State, 4.33
Tim Jennings, Georgia, 4.34
Dunta Robinson, South Carolina, 4.34
Domonique, Foxworth Maryland, 4.34
Joseph Jefferson, Western Kentucky, 4.35
Josh Wilson, Maryland, 4.35
Willie Reid, Florida State, 4.36
David Clowney, Virginia Tech, 4.36
Matt Jones ,Arkansas, 4.37
Leron McCoy, Indiana Pennsylvania, 4.38
Nick Collins, Bethune Cookman, 4.38
http://www.parisischool.com/highlights.asp
***************************************
OK, mid 4.3s. Close enough ?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
badboy
Hall of Fame
Thanks for posting Vinny as I too could not remember him being that fast.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
The important things for CBs is not their 40 time. It's their ability to backpedal and their quickness to turn their hips... the transition from back pedal to running alongside the WR. It's their play recognition to leave the WR and attack the LOS on a running play. It's the ability to locate the ball in the air or read the QBs eyes. It's his quickness to jump the route and deflect/intercept the pass.
The majority of plays a CB is involved in are not running deep patterns. Having a fast 40 yard dash does not always correlate to their ability to cover a WR... a fast 40 yard dash pretty much only shows their ability to recover when beat and they're chasing a guy into the endzone. Their ability to turn and follow the WR is more important. Those that can't are the ones that often get burned deep.
The majority of plays a CB is involved in are not running deep patterns. Having a fast 40 yard dash does not always correlate to their ability to cover a WR... a fast 40 yard dash pretty much only shows their ability to recover when beat and they're chasing a guy into the endzone. Their ability to turn and follow the WR is more important. Those that can't are the ones that often get burned deep.
OK O-M, you keep telling yourself that next year in the unlikely but possible
scenario where we draft Jenkins and the Jags draft Jeremy MaCLin and our rookie CB finds himself in a situation where he has man-coverage on their rookie WR on a fly-pattern from the Jags 30.