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Cold Hard Football Facts on the Houston Texans

To bring it around to the example of the Texans, they learned full well the difficulty of scheduling this year: the Texans faced nine Quality Opponents this year, more than any other team in the AFC. Obviously, playing the Titans and Colts four times is quite a challenge. But Houston also faced Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Miami, Minnesota and Chicago. That's a tough, tough slate to overcome. The Texans were 3-6 in these nine games."
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What I found most interesting, besides the part where we make everyone look like Joe Montana flinging the pigskin.
 
Good interview. I found this bit to be interesting:

The big team-wide issue, however, makes we wonder about Gary Kubiak himself. We measure the offensive and defensive efficiency of each team with our Scoreability and Bendability Indices. The key to these stats is that they don't measure individual units in a vacuum because, quite frankly, individual units (offense, defense, special teams) don't play in a vacuum. The success of one is impacted by the success of the other.

So our indices take all these team-wide factors into consideration, and the Texans here don't measure up particularly well. The Texans were 25th in our Scoreability Index and 27th in our Bendability Index in 2008.

Generally, what you find when teams fare poorly in this efficiency categories, is that they have some combination of the following: a lot of penalties, a bad turnover differential, poor red zone offense and/or defense and poor special teams. I bet if you look at Houston this past year, they struggled in most of these areas. In other words, one unit often made life difficult for the other this year.

[Steph note: The Texans have bad turnover differential, poor red zone offense and defense, average special teams and usually aren't overly penalized.]

And that spells trouble and that's often a reflection of poor fundamentals and/or poor coaching. The team needs to tighten up its act and play together better to become a contender
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Of course, y'all know I'm the lone "fire Kubiak" campaigner, but that sums up a lot of what's at issue.

Interesting indexes/ways of measuring football success on Cold Hard Facts.
 
IlliniJen said:
Good interview. I found this bit to be interesting:



Of course, y'all know I'm the lone "fire Kubiak" campaigner, but that sums up a lot of what's at issue.

Interesting indexes/ways of measuring football success on Cold Hard Facts.
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Have you ever seen Kubiak give a speech in person?

The reason I ask is that I found that people who have seen him speak in person tend to be bigger fans than those who watch a thump the podium presser.

His players from most reports really seem to like and respect him, and if you see him speak in person, you can see why. He isn't the most smooth or slick speaker in the world, but he comes across as a genuine guy who would like nothing more than bringing a Super Bowl trophy to his home town. His desire might not be enough, but you have to acknowledge some progress with this team.

People who hear him speak want to run through a brick wall for him. I saw his first public speech to a large group. It was the draft luncheon after the Texans picked Mario. The crowd was packed, most of those people thought when they bought the tickets that they were going to be hearing about Reggie Bush.

He was able to get that group of people, most of them shocked or mad about the Mario choice, on his side, not being able to wait for the season to begin.

It's something for someone in the coaching bidness to have never been fired. An accomplishment of a sort. Bronco fans still love Kubiak, which a lot of fans can't say about their offensive coordinators or ex-players.

For example, check out this fan article about Kubiak....who wore the number...8!!!!!
 
Texans_Chick said:
Have you ever seen Kubiak give a speech in person?

The reason I ask is that I found that people who have seen him speak in person tend to be bigger fans than those who watch a thump the podium presser.

His players from most reports really seem to like and respect him, and if you see him speak in person, you can see why. He isn't the most smooth or slick speaker in the world, but he comes across as a genuine guy who would like nothing more than bringing a Super Bowl trophy to his home town. His desire might not be enough, but you have to acknowledge some progress with this team.

People who hear him speak want to run through a brick wall for him. I saw his first public speech to a large group. It was the draft luncheon after the Texans picked Mario. The crowd was packed, most of those people thought when they bought the tickets that they were going to be hearing about Reggie Bush.

He was able to get that group of people, most of them shocked or mad about the Mario choice, on his side, not being able to wait for the season to begin.

It's something for someone in the coaching bidness to have never been fired. An accomplishment of a sort. Bronco fans still love Kubiak, which a lot of fans can't say about their offensive coordinators or ex-players.

For example, check out this fan article about Kubiak....who wore the number...8!!!!!
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Kubiak might be a great GUY. But a great HEAD COACH? My jury is still out on that one. He's made plenty of bone-headed decisions during games that have nothing to do with how affable he is.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Have you ever seen Kubiak give a speech in person?

The reason I ask is that I found that people who have seen him speak in person tend to be bigger fans than those who watch a thump the podium presser.

His players from most reports really seem to like and respect him, and if you see him speak in person, you can see why. He isn't the most smooth or slick speaker in the world, but he comes across as a genuine guy who would like nothing more than bringing a Super Bowl trophy to his home town. His desire might not be enough, but you have to acknowledge some progress with this team.

People who hear him speak want to run through a brick wall for him. I saw his first public speech to a large group. It was the draft luncheon after the Texans picked Mario. The crowd was packed, most of those people thought when they bought the tickets that they were going to be hearing about Reggie Bush.

He was able to get that group of people, most of them shocked or mad about the Mario choice, on his side, not being able to wait for the season to begin.

It's something for someone in the coaching bidness to have never been fired. An accomplishment of a sort. Bronco fans still love Kubiak, which a lot of fans can't say about their offensive coordinators or ex-players.

For example, check out this fan article about Kubiak....who wore the number...8!!!!!
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Do not try to change Jen's mind about Kubiak!

She will stab you! :D
 
IlliniJen said:
Kubiak might be a great GUY. But a great HEAD COACH? My jury is still out on that one. He's made plenty of bone-headed decisions during games that have nothing to do with how affable he is.
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I can say that the jury is still out on how Kubiak will be as a head coach. His team seems to rally behind him, which isn't a bad thing. Having the jury out on something is different than suggesting he needs to be canned.

For the work I do on FanHouse, we have a NFL googlegroup where we call stories. First one to call a story gets it. And we also joke and complain in the thread.

It is interesting to hear from fans of other NFL franchises. Everyone seems to beyotch about their coach's clock management and various boneheaded decisions.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I can say that the jury is still out on how Kubiak will be as a head coach. His team seems to rally behind him, which isn't a bad thing. Having the jury out on something is different than suggesting he needs to be canned.

For the work I do on FanHouse, we have a NFL googlegroup where we call stories. First one to call a story gets it. And we also joke and complain in the thread.

It is interesting to hear from fans of other NFL franchises. Everyone seems to beyotch about their coach's clock management and various boneheaded decisions.
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Surely ours is the worst! /sarcasm
 
Texans_Chick said:
It is interesting to hear from fans of other NFL franchises. Everyone seems to beyotch about their coach's clock management and various boneheaded decisions.
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Right. If you watch enough football you'll see boneheaded moves everywhere. Even the best teams make them.
 
Texans_Chick said:
It is interesting to hear from fans of other NFL franchises. Everyone seems to beyotch about their coach's clock management and various boneheaded decisions.
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I loved how Jeff Fisher was the devil after choosing not to kick 50 yards into the wind here in Houston.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Have you ever seen Kubiak give a speech in person?
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Going to the "Have you ever..." card? Come on. A lot of us don't have the time to go to the luncheons or other Texans events where Kubiak speaks. It's tough enough to make time to watch the team play on Sunday, be it at Reliant or on the tube. And it's still the games that count.

Maybe the team would run through a wall for Kubiak. But if that wall happens to be in the red zone, my money is on the wall. And I've seen the podium thumping Kubiak too many times to completely dismiss the possibility of that side of Gary's persona never showing itself in front of the team.

Good guy? Yes. Loves our city? Absolutely. Has helped this franchise through a very difficult transition period? You betcha. Good head coach? Um...not yet. The cold, hard football fact that interests me is that Gary Kubiak must lead the 2009 Houston Texans into the NFL playoffs. I don't see him talking his way out of that.
 
Lucky said:
Going to the "Have you ever..." card? Come on. A lot of us don't have the time to go to the luncheons or other Texans events where Kubiak speaks. It's tough enough to make time to watch the team play on Sunday, be it at Reliant or on the tube. And it's still the games that count.

Maybe the team would run through a wall for Kubiak. But if that wall happens to be in the red zone, my money is on the wall. And I've seen the podium thumping Kubiak too many times to completely dismiss the possibility of that side of Gary's persona never showing itself in front of the team.

Good guy? Yes. Loves our city? Absolutely. Has helped this franchise through a very difficult transition period? You betcha. Good head coach? Um...not yet. The cold, hard football fact that interests me is that Gary Kubiak must lead the 2009 Houston Texans into the NFL playoffs. I don't see him talking his way out of that.
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If the team goes 10-6 or 11-5 next year, but still doesn't make the playoffs, like the Patriots did this year, he'll talk his way out of it just fine.
 
Marcus said:
If the team goes 10-6 or 11-5 next year, but still doesn't make the playoffs, like the Patriots did this year, he'll talk his way out of it just fine.
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Who knows..... we may go 8-8 and win our divisions like the Chargers did... then what will we say??

I know the Kubiak I saw chewing out the offense in the first quarter of the Bears game, is the Kubiak I'd like to see addressing the defense.

The offense has made strides, we know that. For GK to become a good(great) head coach, he needs to do the same on the defensive side of the ball. Handing over more and more of "The Reigns" to Jr, is a step in the right direction.


Oh yeah, Steph, great job
 
No offense guys, but I think ya'll may be missing the point of the article. The statistical analysis wasn't about how the Kubiak fared in coaching. There wasn't any diagrams about missed challenges or bad playcalls, I think the jist is that our defense was exceptionally rotten.
 
TimeKiller said:
No offense guys, but I think ya'll may be missing the point of the article. The statistical analysis wasn't about how the Kubiak fared in coaching. There wasn't any diagrams about missed challenges or bad playcalls, I think the jist is that our defense was exceptionally rotten.
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On positive side, if yards per attempt are the most telling stat for potent offenses, and a strong indicator of playoff success, its pretty sweet knowing the Texans ranked #4
 
IlliniJen said:
Good interview. I found this bit to be interesting:



Of course, y'all know I'm the lone "fire Kubiak" campaigner, but that sums up a lot of what's at issue.

Interesting indexes/ways of measuring football success on Cold Hard Facts.
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IlliniJen said:
Kubiak might be a great GUY. But a great HEAD COACH? My jury is still out on that one. He's made plenty of bone-headed decisions during games that have nothing to do with how affable he is.
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So you're saying you want Kubiak fired before your "jury" comes to a decision? Makes sense....:rolleyes:

Coaches do make mistakes you know. Hell, the HOFer coach Gibbs tried to call consecutive timeouts.

Eh, whatev!
 
I live in Ohio, I really don’t have a favorite team, but watch the Texans play every week and have been since their inception, So I guess you could say I’ve adopted them as my home team so-to-speak. I don’t have the ability of the locals to hear sports talk radio and such to keep abreast of things as much as I’d like, but sometimes that’s a good thing as beat writers and local media tend to make mountains out of mole hills.

So here’s a perspective from an outsider. What I seen in 2008 was a good football team that was its own worst enemy with costly turnovers, especially in the red zone. Totally imploded against Indy in week five, if memory serves should have beat Jax in week three and Minnesota in week nine. I believe Kubiak is a good coach and the right man for the job, however I agree the jury is still out, expectations will be high next year and they should be. The prssure is on him to lead them to the playoffs in 2009 or at the very least be playing for playoff spot in week 17.

In reference to the Scoreability and Bendability Indices, interesting… but they have Minnesota ranked 24th in Bendability and we all know they have a good defense. Injuries need to be accounted for so like everything there are exceptions to the rule. I do some metrics for a website also and I can tell you they don’t always tell the whole story, and at times can be misleading. Sometimes you have to just trust your eyes.

The Texans have a great young core. I believe this team has done an excellent job building thru the draft in recent years. But what has me excited next year is the running game and Slaton specifically. I believe he led the league in 4th quarter rushing yards (464) and his 5.6 rush average was the best of any back with at least 55 4th quarter rush attempts… impressive! Just from watching Slaton, he looks to be one of those rare backs who gets stronger as the game goes on, very powerful runner for his size. I thought he was as impressive as any rookie RB this year. Alex Gibbs is a godsend, the best in the business in terms of zone blocking scheme, so the future looks bright in that respect. They could use a playmaking slot receiver. Walters is serviceable as a #2 guy, but nothing special. On defense the DC hire is critically, they need to get this right. Hearing Marinelli would rather be a DL coach than a DC is cool, hopefully Houston can land him. Even though DCs like to put together their own staff, I don’t think too many DCs would object to having him as their DL coach.
 
HOU-TEX said:
So you're saying you want Kubiak fired before your "jury" comes to a decision? Makes sense....:rolleyes:

Coaches do make mistakes you know. Hell, the HOFer coach Gibbs tried to call consecutive timeouts.

Eh, whatev!
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Sheesh...I used the wrong turn of phrase there. You and TC, like fat kids on a defenseless cake.

The ol' "coaches make mistakes" excuse is fine if you make a couple mistakes, but not showing a lot of improvement or learning from mistakes is far different from the occasional blown playcall or timeout.
 
Marcus said:
Oh, we all know that you're not the only one, Jen. Lucky just ain't got a big enough pair to fess up to it. :heh:
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Well, that's too bad for Lucky, because I've already made a pillow fort from which to launch a "Fire Kubiak" offensive.

Pillow forts are SWEET.
 
So one thing that stood out Steph is the basic..."improve the secondary, improve the record." Am I right. He said the offense was good and that the most help was needed in the secondary. So the Texans need dbs and safeties...fine by me draft time.
 
IlliniJen said:
Sheesh...I used the wrong turn of phrase there. You and TC, like fat kids on a defenseless cake.

The ol' "coaches make mistakes" excuse is fine if you make a couple mistakes, but not showing a lot of improvement or learning from mistakes is far different from the occasional blown playcall or timeout.
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I'm not fat, I just like my cold beer more than the average man. I don't do sweets either. :winky:
 
Lucky said:
Going to the "Have you ever..." card? Come on. A lot of us don't have the time to go to the luncheons or other Texans events where Kubiak speaks. It's tough enough to make time to watch the team play on Sunday, be it at Reliant or on the tube. And it's still the games that count.

Maybe the team would run through a wall for Kubiak. But if that wall happens to be in the red zone, my money is on the wall. And I've seen the podium thumping Kubiak too many times to completely dismiss the possibility of that side of Gary's persona never showing itself in front of the team.

Good guy? Yes. Loves our city? Absolutely. Has helped this franchise through a very difficult transition period? You betcha. Good head coach? Um...not yet. The cold, hard football fact that interests me is that Gary Kubiak must lead the 2009 Houston Texans into the NFL playoffs. I don't see him talking his way out of that.
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Just to clarify, I didn't mean this in a "better fan" card way. I meant it as sort of an observation. I've noticed that people who have seen him in person tend to have more favorable opinions of him than those who haven't.

But yeah, win-losses and playoffs are the bottom line. Most coaches are hired to be eventually fired.
 
HoustonFrog said:
So one thing that stood out Steph is the basic..."improve the secondary, improve the record." Am I right. He said the offense was good and that the most help was needed in the secondary. So the Texans need dbs and safeties...fine by me draft time.
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We ranked 24th in "hogability" as well. So, the secondary isn't our only issue on defense. Rather, defense is our issue.

We can only hope the changing of the guard and the subsequent change in personnel will change that.
 
And, I'd just like to point out something which may be only too painfully obvious to everyone, BUT... if we improve our defense and get more 3 and Outs and more turnovers, then that just gives the ball back to our offense and gives our offense more opportunities to work. With more opportunities, our offense begins to look even better. We're already 5th in TOP with a crappy defense, imagine if our defense was good enough to actually shut some people down.
 
If Kubes truly has handed the OC reigns to Lil Shanny, I think Kubes will be a much better game manager this coming season.
 
Hopefully lil Shanny doesn't get beside himself and allows Kubiak to maintain that trust.
 
Marcus said:
Lucky just ain't got a big enough pair...
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Which begs the question, how would Marcus know?

For the record, if I were the owner of the Houston Texans, Gary Kubiak would have been fired following the 2008 season. But let's get the record straight: Prior to the debacle of the opening 2/3's of this season, no one outside the Kubiak household was a bigger supporter of Gary Kubiak as the Texans head coach than I.

I was totally behind Bob McNair's decision to hire Gary Kubiak. I supported Kubiak's decision to keep David Carr (OK, it wasn't really Kubiak's decision. Just play along). I supported Kubiak's decision to draft Mario, though I had been a Bushman prior to the draft.

I supported Kubiak's decision to dump Carr following the '06 season. I supported Kubiak's decision to sign Ahman Green. I supported Kubiak's decision to trade for Matt Schaub. I supported Kubiak's decision to draft Amobi Okoye (though I said it was a gutsy move that might be more beneficial to the 2009 Texans than the 2007 Texans). Yes, I sported the "In Kubes We Trust" sig.

I supported Gary Kubiak's gameday coaching during the 2006 and 2007 seasons. He's learning. Every coach makes mistakes. The team is improving. They will get better and the head coach will get better with them. Just wait until this team has a healthy Andre Johnson for 16 games.

I supported Kubiak's decision to go with a rookie left tackle. I supported Kubiak's decision to sign Jacques Reeves. I supported Kubiak's decision to retain Richard Smith as defensive coordinator, despite 2 miserable seasons. This is Kubiak's team, he knows what goes on behind closed doors. He realizes the talent level Smith has to work with. Just wait until this young talent grows in 2008. Kubiak has a plan.

The came the 2008 season. And I watched this team flame out in spectacular fashion over the initial 4 games. After every loss, Gary Kubiak would go before the media and blame himself. And I began to believe him.

Kubiak led his team into Pittsburgh completely unprepared and overmatched. His indecisiveness led to a Titan 1st half score in week 2, from which the team never recovered. Another tentative moment led to a Jags special teams score in week 3. Yes, the Rosencopter in week 4 was horrendous. But, the Texans still had the lead. It was Gary Kubiak that called for another rollout on the following drive.

Yes, the Texans had a historic 3 game win streak after that. Remember, we turned the corner? Only to find the all too typical 3 game losing streak. Followed by the monumental 4 game win streak (that's 2 David Carr haircuts). Hey, all good teams have bad days, like the Oakland game. Did you get the memo, Lucky? The Texans knocked the Chicago Bears out of the playoffs. This is a better 8-8 team than the 2007 8-8 Houston Texans squad. Can't you see that?

Yeah, I got the memo. In triplicate. But let me ask my fellow sports fans this question: What if this team had started out 5-1, but closed with a 3-7 finish? Would everyone be so polloyannishly positive over this team's chances in 2009 and Gary Kubiak's future? How many NFL head coaches in the post salary cap era get to keep their jobs after 3 non-winning seasons? Eric Mangini didn't keep his, and he went to the playoffs in 2006. Mike Shanahan got the boot, and he's coached 2 Super Bowl winners and 7 playoff teams. But, it's outlandish to suggest that this organization would be better off without Gary Kubiak as the head coach?

I've seen enough over the course of 3 seasons to believe that Gary Kubiak is not the coach to lead the Houston Texans to a championship. But, I very, very, very much want to be proven wrong. I don't think I will be. And I very much believe that Gary Kubiak is extremely fortunate to coach for an owner as meek and indecisive as he is.
 
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Lucky said:
But let me ask my fellow sports fans this question: What if this team had started out 5-1, but closed with a 3-7 finish? Would everyone be so polloyannishly positive over this team's chances in 2009 and Gary Kubiak's future?
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It would absolutely have a different feel right now. Why? If we did happen to come out of that ridiculous beginning 5-1? It would have meant we were a very very good team. I am comfortable saying that I feel only an extremely ready playoff team could have come through that part of our schedule with all things considered... basically unscathed like that. And It would have taken alot more explaining on how a free fall after that legit start could have happened. Versus what actually did happen and the reality of it.

No offense, but I think you maybe jumped too soon. You may end up right one day... but still, next year is the year when its all out on the table for Kubiak imo.
 
Lucky said:
But let me ask my fellow sports fans this question: What if this team had started out 5-1, but closed with a 3-7 finish? Would everyone be so polloyannishly positive over this team's chances in 2009 and Gary Kubiak's future? How many NFL head coaches in the post salary cap era get to keep their jobs after 3 non-winning seasons? Eric Mangini didn't keep his, and he went to the playoffs in 2006. Mike Shanahan got the boot, and he's coached 2 Super Bowl winners and 7 playoff teams. But, it's outlandish to suggest that this organization would be better off without Gary Kubiak as the head coach?

I've seen enough over the course of 3 seasons to believe that Gary Kubiak is not the coach to lead the Houston Texans to a championship. But, I very, very, very much want to be proven wrong. I don't think I will be. And I very much believe that Gary Kubiak is extremely fortunate to coach for an owner as meek and indecisive as he is.
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First, I haven't supported every one of Kubiak's decisions. But I've disagreed more with some than with others. I thought Smith should have been gone last offseason, I don't care how many injuries he had on his squad last year. But I was fine with the Mario pick even though I was in the trade-down+get-Brick school.

If Kubes had ended 3-7, I might be saying to get rid of him. Why? Because it's not how you start, it's how you finish and for his team to finish that poorly (barring a rash of injuries to key players) would be inexcusable. Now whether you keep a coach who's had a three non-winning seasons really depends on a lot of things. Unlike you, I believe that Kubiak CAN get us to the promised land and I think he's a very good coach. Fisher is an example of someone who started his career with a lot of non-winning seasons and he's now the longest tenured coach in the league... and he's never won a Super Bowl. Cowher is a great coach. How long did it take him to win a Super Bowl?

I think a lot of owners pull the trigger too quickly on coaches. It kills me that Bud Adams of all owners has realized that even good coaches sometimes need some time to rebuild/reload and even good teams sometimes don't win as many games as you'd like. But there's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater every time you lose more games than you think you should. Even though i personally think Mangini isn't a very good coach, I think he was given a raw deal and I think that the Jets are probably going to go through some lean years because they're reacting like fans instead of like owners.

Now, Shanahan is a different issue. Shanny is a good coach but he's not a good GM. And that was his downfall. It's been several years since his team was in the Super Bowl and his teams have gotten worse and worse over the past few years. The owner gave him an ultimatum on firing a defensive coordinator and when Shanny refused, that gave the owner the pretext he needed to go in a new direction. It will be interesting to see how that ends up over the next few years.

So, I hope that McNair gives Smithiak time and understanding. Yeah, yeah, we all want to win a Super Bowl. But the first step is to build a team that's a perennial powerhouse and is in the playoffs (or in the hunt for the playoffs until the last week of the season) consistently.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Unlike you, I believe that Kubiak CAN get us to the promised land and I think he's a very good coach. Fisher is an example of someone who started his career with a lot of non-winning seasons and he's now the longest tenured coach in the league... and he's never won a Super Bowl. Cowher is a great coach. How long did it take him to win a Super Bowl?

I think a lot of owners pull the trigger too quickly on coaches. It kills me that Bud Adams of all owners has realized that even good coaches sometimes need some time to rebuild/reload and even good teams sometimes don't win as many games as you'd like. But there's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater every time you lose more games than you think you should.
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I haven't spent the time to confirm this, but isn't the AFC South the most stable coaching division in football during the existence of the Texans? None of the other 3 teams have changed coaches and we have once. I don't think any other division has had 2 much less 3 coaches in place from 2002 to present. That illustrates your patient owner statement and also highlights we came into a bear of a division.
 
infantrycak said:
I haven't spent the time to confirm this, but isn't the AFC South the most stable coaching division in football during the existence of the Texans? None of the other 3 teams have changed coaches and we have once. I don't think any other division has had 2 much less 3 coaches in place from 2002 to present. That illustrates your patient owner statement and also highlights we came into a bear of a division.
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Indy and the Titans have had the same coach during the Texans existence, Jack Del Rio started coaching the Jags in 2003. So, you're right, quite a stable existence for coachs in this division.

It would take more work than I'm interested in doing to compare that to the other divisions.
 
Thorn said:
Indy and the Titans have had the same coach during the Texans existence, Jack Del Rio started coaching the Jags in 2003. So, you're right, quite a stable existence for coachs in this division.

It would take more work than I'm interested in doing to compare that to the other divisions.
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AFC East:
Buffalo - 3 Coach
Miami - 4 Coach, plus 1 interim
NE - Same Coach
NYJ - 3 Coach (With next hire)

AFC North:
Baltimore - 2 Coaches
Cincinnati - 2 Coaches
Cleveland - 3 Coaches and 1 interim
Pittsburgh - 2 Coaches

AFC West:
Denver - Going on 2nd coach
KC Chiefs - 3 coaches (3rd yet to be hired)
Oakland - 4 coaches and 1 interim, soon to hire 5th coach
San Diego - 2 Coaches

AFC South:
Indianapolis - 1 Coach (could be two if Dungy walks away)
Jacksonville - 2 Coaches
Houston - 2 Coaches
Tennessee - 1 Coach

NFC East:
Dallas - 3 Coaches, but with JJ that could change any day now.
NY Giants - 2 Coaches
Philly - 1 Coach
Washington - 3 Coaches

NFC North:
Chicago - 2 Coaches
Detroit - 4 Coaches and 1 interim (once they make their next hire)
Green Bay - 2 Coaches
Minnesota - 2 Coaches

NFC South:
Atlanta - 4 Coaches, 2 interim coaches
Carolina - 1 Coach
New Orleans - 2 Coaches
Tampa Bay - 1 Coach

NFC West:
Arizona - 3 Coaches
San Francisco - 4 Coaches (No Interim since Mike was given the job full time)
Seattle - 2 Coaches (2009 Mora Jr. takes over for Holmgren)
St Luis - 2 coaches and 2 interim coaches at current, no clue about a coach in 2009. (could be 3rd)
 
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infantrycak said:
I haven't spent the time to confirm this, but isn't the AFC South the most stable coaching division in football during the existence of the Texans? None of the other 3 teams have changed coaches and we have once. I don't think any other division has had 2 much less 3 coaches in place from 2002 to present. That illustrates your patient owner statement and also highlights we came into a bear of a division.
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Going further with the Patient Owner idea, look at the teams who've had a single coach during the Texans existence:

Colts - Winning season and playoffs every year, one superbowl
Titans - They're hot now, but they had 3 non-winning seasons in a row and the owner stuck by Fisher
Patriots - Only missed the playoffs once in this period (finished 9-7)
Broncos - 3 years in the playoffs, 4 years out and was in the running for the playoffs this year but was fired this year.
Eagles - Only 2 non-winning/non-playoff seasons in this period. Got to the SB once.
Panthers - 4 out of 7 seasons were non-winning but the owner stuck by Fox and has gotten to the SB one time and has a good shot this year.
Buccs - Gruden won the SB his first year. Since then, he's had some rough seasons and overall he's been out of the playoffs 4 out of 7 years. His job may or may not be in jeopardy next year but you have to give the Buccs ownership credit for patience: Wyche, Dungy, and then Gruden since 1992.
Seahawks - Only missed the playoffs twice in this tenure but prior to that, he had 3 bad years (2000-2002) but the owner stuck with him and got to a SB because of it. This year probably shouldn't count because everyone knew he was retiring AND he had an insane number of injuries.
 
Lucky said:
Which begs the question, how would Marcus know?

For the record, if I were the owner of the Houston Texans, Gary Kubiak would have been fired following the 2008 season. But let's get the record straight: Prior to the debacle of the opening 2/3's of this season, no one outside the Kubiak household was a bigger supporter of Gary Kubiak as the Texans head coach than I.
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I knew, just from the tone of your posts regarding Kubiak, that was indeed how you felt. But when I created the "Do you want Kubiak fired, and why?" thread, except for responding to other posters' viewpoints, you never really gave your take. Your post here would have been perfect for that thread. (And Jen wouldn't have felt so lonesome.:))

Lucky said:
Yeah, I got the memo. In triplicate. But let me ask my fellow sports fans this question: What if this team had started out 5-1, but closed with a 3-7 finish? Would everyone be so polloyannishly positive over this team's chances in 2009 and Gary Kubiak's future? How many NFL head coaches in the post salary cap era get to keep their jobs after 3 non-winning seasons? Eric Mangini didn't keep his, and he went to the playoffs in 2006. Mike Shanahan got the boot, and he's coached 2 Super Bowl winners and 7 playoff teams. But, it's outlandish to suggest that this organization would be better off without Gary Kubiak as the head coach?
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To be perfectly honest with you, I would have been on the "Fire him" bandwagon too. To start off so well, against that level of competition, and then do so bad against lesser teams, without significant injury, would have meant they were regressing, and he had lost the team.

But that's not how it happend, and it makes a big difference. For the players to go all out, after knowing they were out of the playoffs, tells me that the players want to play for him.

Regarding the "playoffs or bust" requirement for next year, considering how the Patriots 11-5 record wan't even good enough, I think "winning record or bust" would be a fairer standard. If they don't have a winning record next year, it's time to get someone else.
 
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Marcus said:
Regarding the "playoffs or bust" requirement for next year, considering how the Patriots 11-5 record wan't even good enough, I think "winning record or bust" would be a fairer standard. If they don't have a winning record next year, it's time to get someone else.
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This is dangerously close to the infamous quote by 'franchise QB', who said that the next game isn't a 'must win" but a "must play well" game. :) :headhurts:
 
At the risk of being Captain Obvious, those 4 coach teams (soon to add Dallas) share something in common: poor or unstable organization at the top. It may not be the coaches' fault, but they're the first to go.

I think McNair suffered from being a rookie owner, but at least he is able and humble enough to admit his mistakes and try to correct them, knowing his own limitations on the footballing side.

Kubiak is still learning, too. He learned, as McClain always says, that if you're too loyal, you'll get canned. Clearly if he had confidence in Smith and Hoke, he wouldn't have brought in Bush and Rhodes. But he was willing to give them another year because by all accounts, that's the kind of guy he is.
 
Vinny said:
This is dangerously close to the infamous quote by 'franchise QB', who said that the next game isn't a 'must win" but a "must play well" game. :) :headhurts:
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There's a huge difference between what WE can say/believe and what THE TEAM can say/believe.

We, as fans, can look ahead and overlook teams. We can look at the schedule and figure wins and losses. Getting a good record is good enough not to fire the entire coaching staff and we, as fans, can acknowledge that.

But... to the team, every game should be a must win game. They can't afford to look past teams. They need to take the season one week at a time. They can't really look at the schedule and mark games down as wins and losses before hand.

It's OK for US to say that a particular game is a "must play well" game but that's not OK for any player or coach.
 
Rex King said:
But he was willing to give them another year because by all accounts, that's the kind of guy he is.
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Another point in keeping Smith last year was the horrible rash of injuries his defense had to endure the year before. An argument could have been made that Smith couldn't really be blamed by the poor defense in 2007 because of all the chaos with having to deal with all those injuries. I personally wouldn't have considered that a good argument but I have to acknowledge the validity of it.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
There's a huge difference between what WE can say/believe and what THE TEAM can say/believe.

We, as fans, can look ahead and overlook teams. We can look at the schedule and figure wins and losses. Getting a good record is good enough not to fire the entire coaching staff and we, as fans, can acknowledge that.

But... to the team, every game should be a must win game. They can't afford to look past teams. They need to take the season one week at a time. They can't really look at the schedule and mark games down as wins and losses before hand.

It's OK for US to say that a particular game is a "must play well" game but that's not OK for any player or coach.
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don't take me that seriously. I'm just poking Marcus
 
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