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So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
who the hell would want him fired. sure he has made some mistakes but everyone does
he has been here for what 2 years? most of the time it takes longer than that to build a team. ppl who dont kno crap about building a team want to see results as soon as a new coach walks in, it almost ever works like that
and also y even start this thread? you had nothing to add and seem to be looking to start arguments.
i hope an admin locks this up. y start threads with nothing to post
he has been here for what 2 years? most of the time it takes longer than that to build a team. ppl who dont kno crap about building a team want to see results as soon as a new coach walks in, it almost ever works like that
and also y even start this thread? you had nothing to add and seem to be looking to start arguments.
i hope an admin locks this up. y start threads with nothing to post
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
You must have missed the countless fire Kubiak threads.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Only argument I can see being made is not firing RS soon enough and some game management concerns. Other then that in two years he's overhauled his side of the ball totally and has the team headed in the right direction.
WTF!!!!
Kubes took an anemic Offense and put it in the top three in the NFL. It also has room to grow. If they build from here and reduce turnovers, and get better in the Red Zone, this will be unstopable.
OK, so the defense needs help, but the base is there. A new DC with #90, #23, #59, and a couple of high round 2009 draft picks and maybe the same thing happens on the D side of the ball.
Besides who's out there that you want. (That will actually come to Houston)
If we don't make the playoffs next year, then all the Fire Kubiak stuff can start.
Kubes took an anemic Offense and put it in the top three in the NFL. It also has room to grow. If they build from here and reduce turnovers, and get better in the Red Zone, this will be unstopable.
OK, so the defense needs help, but the base is there. A new DC with #90, #23, #59, and a couple of high round 2009 draft picks and maybe the same thing happens on the D side of the ball.
Besides who's out there that you want. (That will actually come to Houston)
If we don't make the playoffs next year, then all the Fire Kubiak stuff can start.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
I want him fired. Reasons: poor playcalling and clock management when it counts, and this is something that he should have at least learned by now. Poor red zone playcalling. Lack of toughness throughout the team. Lack of an ability to finish games. He will cost us a couple games on trying to out-smart and out-cute our opponents. Our team's preparation is also lacking, especially when it comes to road games. I don't see a lot of these trends changing next year, so we will lose a couple games we should have won on paper due to these issues.
I acknowledge that our offense is improving, but having a great offense that stumbles in the red zone is a major issue. I also think we have the players on offense that make it so great...our receiving corps is tops in the league in talent, and we found a real diamond in Slaton. But I have to wonder how we would have faired without Slaton being the kind of player that he is.
If we don't make the playoffs next year, I think his job will be in jeopardy, unless ownership is okay with middling records.
I acknowledge that our offense is improving, but having a great offense that stumbles in the red zone is a major issue. I also think we have the players on offense that make it so great...our receiving corps is tops in the league in talent, and we found a real diamond in Slaton. But I have to wonder how we would have faired without Slaton being the kind of player that he is.
If we don't make the playoffs next year, I think his job will be in jeopardy, unless ownership is okay with middling records.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I don't want him fired necessarily but I'm still not entirely convinced that he's the coach who will take us to the promised land. There are a lot of things that Gary Kubiak ("and staff" which is as far down the ladder as I'll go because they are a reflection of him) has fixed here. Are we better than we were when he came here? Of course. Absolutely. We've improved in a number of areas (mostly on the offensive side) and I'd be a fool to not accept that.
We're not a dynasty however. We aren't so good that we're beyond criticism or concern.
On offense we play soft at times. We come out unprepared too often. We are a lousy road team and we still show a propensity to "melt down" in hostile environments. We have trouble with turnovers and we have trouble scoring in the red zone. We tend to be good about penalties until we get a few and then we lose our composure and commit a bunch in a single game. We all can and have seen the team do some inexplicable things where play calling has been concerned. There isn't any question that at times Gary Kubiak has called (or approved) some insanely stupid calls. He can't manage a clock for **** and he tends to be a really bad liar when it comes time to explain himself. "dead legs"? Bullshit. According to Gary his team hasn't quit once this season but this flies in the face of the evidence before us. They've quit a few times this year. They laid down against Baltimore and they did it again against Oakland. They seem unprepared at times. Under Gary Kubiak the Texans seem to play "stupid" every now and then.
On defense we are not much better than we were when he got here. We were 23rd before this game today and in the past two years we've been 24th in total defense. We can't get any pressure on the QB and we can't stop the run. We have a plethora of problems on this side of the ball to add to those on offense. Our defense looks lost in the woods at times.
Does this mean I want Kubiak fired? No. Many of these things could be said about a lot of coaches in the NFL. Go to just about any teams message board that doesn't employ a Belichick or a Dungy and you'll find complaints like this. We could do a lot worse than Gary Kubiak. He's a step up from Dom Capers.
Is he going to take us into winning territory however? I don't know and I'm worried that we may have a guy who can improve a team but doesn't know how to make them consistent winners. We don't know. Really if you think about it we can't possibly know. Until the players either respond to him completely and start winning or quit on him entirely and get him fired we just don't know. He's mucking around in that 8-8 area where you can't find enough fault in him to make a good case for firing him and you can't find enough to like about the job he's done to want to extend his contract or proclaim him the next big thing.
I know this. I know that if he isn't that guy whose going to take us to consistent winning football then he's without any doubt going to leave the pantry better stocked than it was when he came here. I think we have to give him another year to see if he can finish this up. I think that another good draft will pretty much have this team loaded and deep and then you have to start saying "Gary, you've got all the ammo anyone could ask for. Now either go out there and start beating people or we're going to have to look at replacing you".
One more year IMO and if it's another year like this one then next season I'm going to be calling for the Texans to quit dicking around with this glorified offensive coordinator who can't lead and go hire a real coach. If he can take them forward into the 9-11 wins range then I'm a happy man.
We're not a dynasty however. We aren't so good that we're beyond criticism or concern.
On offense we play soft at times. We come out unprepared too often. We are a lousy road team and we still show a propensity to "melt down" in hostile environments. We have trouble with turnovers and we have trouble scoring in the red zone. We tend to be good about penalties until we get a few and then we lose our composure and commit a bunch in a single game. We all can and have seen the team do some inexplicable things where play calling has been concerned. There isn't any question that at times Gary Kubiak has called (or approved) some insanely stupid calls. He can't manage a clock for **** and he tends to be a really bad liar when it comes time to explain himself. "dead legs"? Bullshit. According to Gary his team hasn't quit once this season but this flies in the face of the evidence before us. They've quit a few times this year. They laid down against Baltimore and they did it again against Oakland. They seem unprepared at times. Under Gary Kubiak the Texans seem to play "stupid" every now and then.
On defense we are not much better than we were when he got here. We were 23rd before this game today and in the past two years we've been 24th in total defense. We can't get any pressure on the QB and we can't stop the run. We have a plethora of problems on this side of the ball to add to those on offense. Our defense looks lost in the woods at times.
Does this mean I want Kubiak fired? No. Many of these things could be said about a lot of coaches in the NFL. Go to just about any teams message board that doesn't employ a Belichick or a Dungy and you'll find complaints like this. We could do a lot worse than Gary Kubiak. He's a step up from Dom Capers.
Is he going to take us into winning territory however? I don't know and I'm worried that we may have a guy who can improve a team but doesn't know how to make them consistent winners. We don't know. Really if you think about it we can't possibly know. Until the players either respond to him completely and start winning or quit on him entirely and get him fired we just don't know. He's mucking around in that 8-8 area where you can't find enough fault in him to make a good case for firing him and you can't find enough to like about the job he's done to want to extend his contract or proclaim him the next big thing.
I know this. I know that if he isn't that guy whose going to take us to consistent winning football then he's without any doubt going to leave the pantry better stocked than it was when he came here. I think we have to give him another year to see if he can finish this up. I think that another good draft will pretty much have this team loaded and deep and then you have to start saying "Gary, you've got all the ammo anyone could ask for. Now either go out there and start beating people or we're going to have to look at replacing you".
One more year IMO and if it's another year like this one then next season I'm going to be calling for the Texans to quit dicking around with this glorified offensive coordinator who can't lead and go hire a real coach. If he can take them forward into the 9-11 wins range then I'm a happy man.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Nobody who knows anything about football thought Kubiak should be fired at ANY point this season.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
Shush. This is a valid discussion, regardless of whether or not Kubes is returning.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
You mean the talking heads on TV? That would assume the talking heads on TV actually TALK about the Texans. Our team is persona non grata on the national level, and the local honks are scrubs, at best.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
It is indeed and next season we are going to begin to see those national media types putting Kubiak on their "Might be in the hot seat" articles whether there's any truth to this or not. It's just a case of time running out on an NFL coach. You bring a guy into a "basket case" situation like Houston post-2005 and everyone spots him a season to get the lay of the land. Then you expect to see some improvement and Kubiak gave us that in 2007 with a .500 record. The next year (2008) you expect them to start looking like winners and we did that.....kinda. We're still .500 so technically this season is something of a wash for us but we had some improvement in very visible areas and so Kubiak doesn't get the kind of criticism he might have. Next year if we make a lot of the same mistakes then the talking heads will see him as a fair game to start talking job security about.
I thought this was a very good thread idea and topical. Kubiak is not a slam-dunk choice for getting a 5 year contract extension by most peoples standards. We have issues and some of them aren't going away like they should be. There's room to talk about this.
Thank you, Jen. And thank you for your opinion.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
We've seen improvements, no doubt, but to me, we're STILL 8-8. Those improvements haven't shown in the win column, and to me, there's something holding this team back BESIDES the woeful defense.
There are intangibles like toughness and attitude, and tangibles like preparation and playcalling/game management that I think are really missing from this team and I'm betting that THESE are the things that are holding us back, besides a horrible defense, that lay at the feet of the coaches.
I really hope we turn it around next year and see a team with a nasty winning attitude, but I seriously doubt that Kubes is the guy to get us over the attitude or "win when it counts" hump. I'm with you on that, Herv.
Bottom line this team was in shambles when he took over, and the Texans have gotten better every year since.......
Don't look at Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore and compare. Kubiak has improved this team every year. The record is not a true indicator of this teams ability.
Before Kubiak was here, no one even mentioned the Texans. Now they are known and at least respected enough that teams no longer look past them.
Don't look at Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore and compare. Kubiak has improved this team every year. The record is not a true indicator of this teams ability.
Before Kubiak was here, no one even mentioned the Texans. Now they are known and at least respected enough that teams no longer look past them.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Exactly and it is really shocking how many other teams are having this same discussion. Teams that are going to the playoffs are having this debate. Titans boards are filled with critics of Jeff Fisher for instance. I see lots of problems and to me it's all a case of what kind of coach do we have? Do we have a guy who can pick it up and become great? Do we have Bill Belichick circa: 1991-95? That guy was no "genius" at the time. He made mistakes and pissed people off and got fired. Do we have Jerry Glanville? I don't mean in the wacky personality disorder way but is he a guy who can basically fix one side of the ball and drag a team from being a loser to being a bottom of the heap quasi-winner.
What is Kubiak's ceiling and are we there yet? That to me is a huge question and if the answer is "this is it" then what do the Texans do about it?
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
No, the record doesn't really indicate ability, but unfortunately it's the only thing that really counts at the end of the day.
As Herm Edwards once said: "You play to win the game." And it really is that simple. Once again, we're not a playoff team, and with all the "ability" this team has, we should be better than 8-8 in what most people said would be our playoff year.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Okay, I'll just repeat what I said the last time we had this discussion.
The guy had two great seasons of improvement - and then ONE ROUGH STRETCH.
Which included three games on the road against playoff teams to start the year.
Which included a hurricane that totally destroyed our season.
And - DESPITE all of that - look how we finished after an 0-4 start. 8-4, and 5 wins in our last 6 games.
You DO NOT fire a guy who has taken this team from COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE to what it is now. They had ONE bad stretch this season. ONE bad stretch. How does that overrule what he has done up until the ONE bad stretch? It doesn't.
Also - we're not the same 8-8 we were last year. We have an identity on offense. We have our RB star we so sorely needed. We have a QB who proved he can stay healthy (cheap shots don't count as injuries IMO).
So no, Kubiak doesn't deserve to be fired. He deserves an apology from a lot of the a-holes on this board who wanted him gone because he had gone through one bad stretch of football after all he had done for this team.
This is Gary Kubiak's dream job. NOBODY wants him to win more than he does. None of the fans, none of the players, nobody. He KILLS himself for this team, and I think he deserves a hell of a lot better than what he's gotten from a lot of fans this year.
No, he's not perfect. Yes, he's had problems. But look at the big picture here. We have an offense that is approaching ELITE status, and now we just need to work out our defensive issues.
/end rant
The guy had two great seasons of improvement - and then ONE ROUGH STRETCH.
Which included three games on the road against playoff teams to start the year.
Which included a hurricane that totally destroyed our season.
And - DESPITE all of that - look how we finished after an 0-4 start. 8-4, and 5 wins in our last 6 games.
You DO NOT fire a guy who has taken this team from COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE to what it is now. They had ONE bad stretch this season. ONE bad stretch. How does that overrule what he has done up until the ONE bad stretch? It doesn't.
Also - we're not the same 8-8 we were last year. We have an identity on offense. We have our RB star we so sorely needed. We have a QB who proved he can stay healthy (cheap shots don't count as injuries IMO).
So no, Kubiak doesn't deserve to be fired. He deserves an apology from a lot of the a-holes on this board who wanted him gone because he had gone through one bad stretch of football after all he had done for this team.
This is Gary Kubiak's dream job. NOBODY wants him to win more than he does. None of the fans, none of the players, nobody. He KILLS himself for this team, and I think he deserves a hell of a lot better than what he's gotten from a lot of fans this year.
No, he's not perfect. Yes, he's had problems. But look at the big picture here. We have an offense that is approaching ELITE status, and now we just need to work out our defensive issues.
/end rant
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
Really? In the midst of a rational discussion, you need to call those of us who think he should be fired "a-holes"? Really?
There are plenty of good, RATIONAL reasons for keeping Kubiak or wanting a new head coach. I do not dislike Kubiak as a person, but I'm not discussion him as a person, I'm making an assessment of his JOB PERFORMANCE. And IMHO, I'm not entirely happy with his performance nor am I convinced he can take this team beyond 8-8.
There are positives and negatives to this season, and I'm more than happy to discuss them rationally and respectfully. I don't think getting emotional and calling those who think he should be fired "a-holes" is very productive or speaks to a rational argument as to why he should stay.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
It sounds like you only read the a-hole part of my post. I gave plenty of reasons why he should stay. I'm pretty much always rational and respectful when it comes to football talk... but fans turning their back on the coach after all the good he's done - and the Tennessee Titans - always makes me kind of a jerk.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
It sounds like you only read the a-hole part of my post. I gave plenty of reasons why he should stay. I'm pretty much always rational and respectful when it comes to football talk... but fans turning their back on the coach after all the good he's done - and the Tennessee Titans - always makes me kind of a jerk.
People tend to do that when you call them a-holes.
Personally I think that arguments can be made either way (and I expect they will be once next season gets on the radar).
DiehardChris
You betcha!
If Kubiak tanks next year - I will eat tons of crow. I just really think he's the guy.
Were you actually calling for him to be fired earlier in the year? Jen, were you? I'm sorry I resorted to name-calling... I just didn't really think there were that many people who called for Kubes to definitely be fired during this season.
Were you actually calling for him to be fired earlier in the year? Jen, were you? I'm sorry I resorted to name-calling... I just didn't really think there were that many people who called for Kubes to definitely be fired during this season.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
It sounds like you only read the a-hole part of my post. I gave plenty of reasons why he should stay. I'm pretty much always rational and respectful when it comes to football talk... but fans turning their back on the coach after all the good he's done - and the Tennessee Titans - always makes me kind of a jerk.
Actually, you didn't give a lot of solid reasons. You did supply a lot of excuses - some of them valid - but at the end of the day, excuses don't explain away our inability to win against winning teams or our poor red zone conversion rate or poor game preparation or far too many road losses or poor playcalling.
If you truly, in your heart of hearts believes that this team can make the playoffs under Kubiak and truly become a winning team that can take on all comers, then you're entitled to your opinion.
We ARE a better team positionally on offense. What a difference a decent QB makes, and a RB, and a TE and a good many playmakers that our team acquired AFTER Kubes became the head coach. There is a lot of talent on our offense and we SHOULD have won more games this year, but we didn't.
At the end of the day, we are 8-8 and we won't get the benefit of an Ike asterisk or a Rosencopter asterisk or a Jags coin-flip asterisk or a came-out-flat-versus-the-Raiders asterisk. We are 8-8 and we should not be having this discussion if I believed that Kubes brings the intangibles that I think would take us to the next level.
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
Rep.
That being said. My faith in Kubes will be greatly shaken if some major changes are not made on the defensive side of the ball this offseason.
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
Kind of like an 8-8 record? 50-50?
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
All of the talent in the world does not make you a good football team.
Sincerely,
Jerry Jones
IMO. Sage Rosenfels is the reason the Texans finished @ .500. All by himself. You can't put his one man show in the Indy home game on Kubiak. It just won't fly.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
I was a doubter halfway during the season, when I began questioning the identity of this team. I voted back then in a poll that he should not come back next year because I don't see anything fundamentally changing in the way he coaches, he just has a shitload of talent to work with.
Last week's Raiders game made me firmly say he needs to be fired because I honestly don't know how he can make those two pass calls with 3rd and 4th and a half yard after being a head coach for almost 3 full years, especially after similar playcalling has backfired on him this very season. I seriously cannot understand doing that in that situation. I was pretty much convinced that the head coach is NOT learning from experience, and I was done.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Those aren't excuses, they're reasons. The Ike thing was huge, and that's not hindsight or retrospect. Starting on the road three games - with the first two being the best teams in the AFC - was huge. I didn't expect the Texans to win either one of those games.
I don't make excuses for this team. We didn't lose the Jags game because of a coin flip - we lost because we couldn't contain David Garrard. I don't know what you mean by asterisks - I don't believe we should have any either. I'm very, very hard on this team. Harder than pretty much anyone I know who devotes huge chunks of time writing about them. Again - I don't think Kubes is perfect - but the good far outweighs the bad - and I do think we have a lot more positives going into this offseason than we did last year.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Keep Kubes. Get some hitmen in the secondary to help Robinson out and next year they'll make the playoffs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUr5hF0yGc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUr5hF0yGc&feature=related
DiehardChris
You betcha!
I don't disagree with any of that about the Raiders game. I was shocked at those bad play calls. Shocked. And they were not ready to play. It was a classic case of them taking Oakland too lightly, and the players thinking they were better than they are - which is mediocre.
But I still think the good outweighs the bad, and IMO wins at Green Bay and home against TEN are better than the bad that came from the Oakland loss. Just my opinion.
Mailman
Pwned by Hakeem
What you call a "valid excuse" I call a reason.
Chris is absolutely correct in his assessment of Kubiak and I agree with him that Kubiak is owed much more deference and respect than his critics give him. He has done a very good job taking a crappy team and shaping it into a talented team on the cusp of being very good.
The quickest route to the basement of the AFC South would be to fire Kubiak and destroy the continuity the franchise is just beginning to build. Continuity is an asset. Nurture it and the winning will follow. Gut it and we're back to sucking.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Looking back, it's a MIRACLE that Bud Adams stuck with him through those three 8-8 seasons.
Uh... if we go 8-8 for the third season in a row, I'll probably be on the side of those who want Kubes gone... but I don't think that's going to happen.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
To me, the Oakland game is indicative of something that can be greatly affected by coaching. Why is the team not prepared and taking the Raiders lightly? How does the coaching staff allow this attitude?
And that's really the crux of it to me. You can not win meaningfully or consistently without a winning football attitude, and it's more than improving on the offense and being third in the league. It's a toughness and football mentality that pervades an organization. It's hitting a D-lineman in the mouth after the whistle if he takes a shot at your QB.
I guess I want old school coaches who still teach toughness and have spittle flying out of their mouths at refs after bad calls, not coaches who see themselves as the CEOs of their teams, not really invoking any emotions. I want a team identity, and if anyone can successfully vocalize what the identity of our team is, I'd love to hear it.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Wow - we want the exact same things for our team... funny that we totally disagree on what we have currently.
I was RAGING last year when Schaub got hit and none of our guys took out the guys who hit him cheaply. I think Kubiak has it in him to be that fiery, angry HC, but he just doesn't show it much to the media. He very often gets very angry and vocal on the sideline, though.
Far as our identity, I don't know. I agree - I want that identity too... I'm jealous of the Titans' defensive identity... same with the Steelers. I want to be the rough, blast'em in the face team - not the finesse team... that's why I want Richard Smith gone so badly. I think we need a complete attitude transplant on defense. Players and coaches.
Mailman
Pwned by Hakeem
Houston 13 Tennessee 12
The Texans don't win that game without that same attitude and toughness.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
That's true - but it's been the exception more often than the rule. I agree we need that kind of attitude ALWAYS.
Mailman
Pwned by Hakeem
Bill Belichick is everyone's unanimous genius coach, but he didn't exactly start out with an exemplary W-L record.
In his first five seasons with Cleveland the Browns finished:
6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
He then went to New England and finished 5-11 in his first year there before the Pats went on to win the Super Bowl in 2001.
Perspective, anyone?
In his first five seasons with Cleveland the Browns finished:
6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
He then went to New England and finished 5-11 in his first year there before the Pats went on to win the Super Bowl in 2001.
Perspective, anyone?
GlassHalfFull
Hall of Fame
During the game today, when we were down 10-0 and the offense wasn't performing, Kubiak had the offense lined up on a bench and was giving them hell. We all know what happened after that. Kubiak does have fire and passion.
I, for one, think he is going to be a great head coach for somebody one day, and would be really pissed if we weren't the somebody. I promise you that if we were stupid enough to fire him, he would be snapped up by another team in a heartbeat. Luckily, I trust Bob McNair to make the right decision and keep him around. Thank God that some posters here do not get to make the call about firing and hiring.
I, for one, think he is going to be a great head coach for somebody one day, and would be really pissed if we weren't the somebody. I promise you that if we were stupid enough to fire him, he would be snapped up by another team in a heartbeat. Luckily, I trust Bob McNair to make the right decision and keep him around. Thank God that some posters here do not get to make the call about firing and hiring.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
You know what, I feel like, and I hate to say it, the Arizona Cardinals. They obviously made the playoffs this year, but they've had this potential for a couple years now and I could never get a vibe on what they were about as a football team. And I still kinda don't.
The thing with Arizona (and us) is I think they've been losers or mediocre for so long that they basically have the identity of nougat. Just sorta there, and rather non-descript. You can go from a losing team to an 8-8 or 9-7 team and not really undergo much of a mental transformation if you have the talent and it starts to emerge. But I truly believe going from good to great comes top-down from the head coach and his staff.
Maybe getting Smith out and someone new as DC in will give us an attitude and an identity that will spread, but at this point I'm really not wanting more finesse or "genius" types of guys if they're not going to make their players want to stomp a mudhole in their opponent's ass and walk it dry. I would LOVE for other teams to fear our team on both sides of the ball.
Mailman
Pwned by Hakeem
Undoubtedly, but we also need to be realistic and remember that the players and coaches are not automatons. There will be those Sundays when teams perform poorly. The Texans have clearly improved in this area over the last couple of years. They're not losing to crappy teams and they're competing with the good ones.
IlliniJen
Hall of Fame
Too bad it only emerges for one game.
Schaub did show me something that game and I hope he becomes the catalyst, along with "won't go down" Slaton, for some toughness on the offense.