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Perspective

Texanmike02

Texanmike02

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Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?

The long and short of this team is this. We are the Titans of the late 90's early 2000's. We are getting close. I don't think this is a team that will slowly climb from 7 wins to 12 or 13. This team, to me, will be a 7 winish team (8 or 9 is an outside possibility) for a couple of years (read that this and maybe next... though I really think next year will be a 11 or 12 win season). We have talent in a lot of places. We are missing talent in some key places. Add 3 or 4 guys to this defense and its instantly a vastly different team. I realize that you can say that about most teams... but you can actually do that in an off season.

I think the offense is much closer to what we saw in week 4 than what we saw in weeks 1 and 2. Its on defense that we need a few VERY key pieces to this puzzle. Plug in a big guy in the middle of the line. Replace greenwood. Get a real cover corner. This team is instantly better. Its nice to talk about how we didn't address the needs of this team last year or the year before last, but like everything else in football, its about small progressions keeping the situation manageable.

After the 2-14 season you weren't going to look up and go 13-3. You weren't going to go 10-6. You look to make up ground. Overhaul the OL (vastly different the next year and even more different the following year... now with brown we will finally get some continuity on the line and you guys will be amazed at what that does). Bring in a few components to build on, mario, demeco. Now you have manageable goals for the next year. Add some more pieces, if you can't add starters, add . Look at the roster turnover between years 1 and two of Kubes.

If you can't add starters, add depth. We've taken some gambles. Some haven't paid off (JJ yet) others have. Slaton on the other hand seems to be well on his way to paying off. JJ isn't bad depth, that's for sure. On DL, look at the posibility of having Mario,AO,TJ, and maybe Okam, if he develops (if not, another big guy in the middle) in the rotation. I'm a fan of turning AO into a DE at least part time, switching he and Mario and letting them stunt the hell out of the T/G.

There are bright spots for this team. I originally had us going 9-7... I bought into the hype so to speak because I think this is a 7-8 win team. Its a better team than last years, but its going to have some growing pains. We saw that in Pittsburgh. That was a disaster. We saw that on the punt return.. young players getting turned around... new players not sure of assignments... we'll see it again. Likely for a long time.


Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder.

The bottom line, is this is a team to wait on. How long did Tenn wait on mediocrity before coming dominant. I think we're that same kind of team. I see us putting people in poisition to play in this league for a long long time. If we're not vastly better by the middle of next year, starting to look like a 10+ win team... then its time to panic.

Mike
 
You beat me to it. I couldnt agree more.

I was as upset as anyone after each of our first 3 losses. But really what did we expect? There is no way we were going to start off this season looking good. People will say yeh but we shouldn’t of looked as bad as we have. BS!! First off we have 3 NEW starters on our offensive line. One is a ROOKIE, our LT (considered the most important position on the line). We have a NEW OL coach teaching a NEW system that (and this is very important) cannot be fully practiced against our D because of possible injuries to our DL.

You cant practice cut blocking like you can a power run blocking scheme. That alone will cause a big learning curve. Throw in the fact that we started the season off against the friken Pittsburg Steelers, Titans and the Jaguars all on the road. Three of the top Defenses in the NFL. I have to say the way our OL played against the Jags really impressed me. Sure they didn’t dominate but they showed more improvement over the last couple of weeks than anyone realistically could of expected.

On defense if you look at the personnel you have to question whether the coach is really at fault. We have an undersized Dline that just isn’t equipped to stop the run. We have average OLB’s and young secondary. Hell you could put all pros at both corner spots and they would still get burned because we cannot get pressure on the QB. Im not starting a KEEP Richard Smith movement but really what is he supposed to do with the hand that has been dealt to him? You say develop a identity? We have one. We are an undersized slow outside young defense that needs some impact players in key positions to compliment the good ones we have.

I still believe this team is heading in the right direction. We have improved every week and now we can take that improvement and work on it at home for the next 4 weeks. Say Im drinking the coolaid or whatever you want. I am going to root for this team just as passionately as I have since day one. I believe after this home stand most of you will to.
 
this is a superb thread. I think a lot of people get caught in our microwave society...but yes, this team is looking like it has a future. You couldn't say that before...yes, we want wins now, and they will come. But as far as bigger and better things, we're on our way. Great posts! :goodpost:
 
"Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder. "


So Smith's excuse for consistently fielding one of the worst Ds on Sundays is talent? Tell me, how bad are we talent wise that poor Richard cant seem to even field a competitive unit for 3 years running?

Look at Jim Schwartz in Tenn. That defense was last in the league after 06. Then last year they're top 5, this year they look like the best unit in the league thus far. Were there any major additions? No, although they did lose their best CB Pacman Jones...

I wonder if COACHING had anything to do with that change?!?!?! If we cant expect our DC to get the defense to play like overachievers then he shouldn't be our DC.

PS: Okam was a 5th rounder.
 
Just wait until next year.

Next year we could easily have two more new offensive lineman. That will be a good (though often used) excuse to wait until the year after that until the line is any good. By that time Pitts might be showing his mileage and drop down from his averge self.

Given health and a between the tackles running back, the rest of the offense might be good. It will still depend on that re-gelling line though. Johnson might be slowing down by the time that gets fixed. If so, his will have been an incredibly wasted career.

The defense has a long way to go in talent and coaching. If the Texans need bigger defensive lineman, why did they waste such a high pick on a small one? That is lack of direction.

Can a team with no defensive direction replace almost all of its defensive backs and outside linebackers in a year or two? Doubtful when they can't even get up the nerve to replace a failed defensive coordinator when they already have one on staff to replace him. Smith should have been let go this summer, but he got 'one more year'.

Next year. One more year. Just wait and see.

Nice bromides, but not very proactive.

Comparing the Texans to teams that struggle and then find succes is all well and good. However, they are more similar to a team that struggles year after year and never have much success beyond a playoff loss every ten years or so before plunging back down to irrelevance.
 
TexanMike said:
"Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?"


Therein lies the problem. After 7 years and 3 years of Kubiak probably 13 of the 16 games we play are against teams better than us.
 
Reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. Only instead of a day it's a year. Over and over and over again. We are stuck in the black hole of mediocrity. Every time we begin to "go to the light" we get yanked back down. :pirate:

I like the optimism though. Although, it might be a matter of time before it starts wearing thin, if it hasn't already.
 
I will paraphrase the Sage of Hampton

It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about perspective. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be a fan, and we're talking about perspective. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about perspective, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about perspective. Not the game that I go out there and cheer, travel for and pay every game like it's my last but we're talking about perspective man. How silly is that?

Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about perspective. We're talking about perspective man. We're talking about perspective. We're talking about perspective. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about perspective. When you come to the stadium, and you see me cheer, you've seen me cheer right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about perspective right now.
Click to expand...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/news/2002/05/09/iverson_transcript/
 
Who would have thought the day would come when TexanMike is more optimistic than I am.
 
Great post! Not to mention... when you look at last year, we played the NFC South which was one of the worst divisions last year. That 7-3 record vs. out of conf. teams was a tad inflated due to who we played and the down years they had. But it still went into the hype that had many predicting 10 or 11 wins for us this year.

Then we open up on the road at Tenn, Pitt, and Jax. I mean cmon, it doesnt get much more brutal than that. Throw in a hurricane, many new moving parts, new coaches and schemes,etc,etc.

This team is STILL headed in the right direction. Heck its only game 3 of the season so far. We stilll have ALL 8 HOME GAMES LEFT!! The season is just getting started people.
 
I thought the Texans were going to be a lot better team this year. I don't think a coaching change is the answer.A new HC will likely want to change things too much & delay progress.

I think the Texans main mistake is that you should have finished the job of building the Defence before starting the Offence.Ahmad Green was a gamble with money that could have been spent elsewhere.He wasn't really expensive but he was relative to how much spare money you had at the time.

So far it's looking like it's another tough year to be a Texan fan but there's a lot of football left to play yet.If this year does end up .500 or below it has to be blamed on injuries.I really can't see you not progressing next year at the latest.
 
maddogmrb said:
Therein lies the problem. After 7 years and 3 years of Kubiak probably 13 of the 16 games we play are against teams better than us.
Click to expand...

Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.

TheRealJoker said:
So Smith's excuse for consistently fielding one of the worst Ds on Sundays is talent? Tell me, how bad are we talent wise that poor Richard cant seem to even field a competitive unit for 3 years running?

Look at Jim Schwartz in Tenn. That defense was last in the league after 06. Then last year they're top 5, this year they look like the best unit in the league thus far. Were there any major additions? No, although they did lose their best CB Pacman Jones...
Click to expand...

How many of our D players would be starting on the Titans D??


TheRealJoker said:
PS: Okam was a 5th rounder.
Click to expand...

Dude masterbation will not break youre vow of celebacy.
 
mussop said:
Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.
QUOTE]


Seriously, that is NOT what I said at all. What I said is that the problem is that after 7 years, we are still worse than at least 13 of the teams/games on our schedule.
Click to expand...
 
mussop said:
Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.
Click to expand...

If our defense could stop a 4th and 8, we would have most likely beaten the Jags. Taking a team to OT is indicative that we could have won the game.

The Titans are a good team. But, change a couple of coaching decisions (like kicking FG's instead of going for every 4th down, and mix in a replay challenge), that game could have been different.

Now, I'm not one to sip koolaide. The fact of 0-3 is what it is at the end of the day. However, there exists parallel realities that we could have won at least one of the two above mentioned games. (Obviously, the Steelers just kicked our ass and we never had a shot.)
 
mussop said:
Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.



How many of our D players would be starting on the Titans D??




Dude masterbation will not break youre vow of celebacy.
Click to expand...

What would the Titans D be ranked if Richard Smith was DC? How would our players have developed on D had they had Jim Schwartz at DC for the past 3 years? I wonder how many Titans players would be starting on the Texans D if that were the case.
 
Texan_Bill said:
"How in the hell can I make my teammates better by perspective?
Click to expand...

That's an easy one!


What player A saw: his teammates missing a bunch of tackles on a messed up not-a-punt play.

Perspective: it's only one play in one game.

What player A thinks: that isn't so bad.
 
TheRealJoker said:
What would the Titans D be ranked if Richard Smith was DC? How would our players have developed on D had they had Jim Schwartz at DC for the past 3 years? I wonder how many Titans players would be starting on the Texans D if that were the case.
Click to expand...

You're dodging his questions...

How many players on the Titans D would you trade str8 up for our guys ? Schemes be damned...

If you were starting a team, how many of our players would you choose if you could only pick from our defense and the Titans defense ? One starter from each position, how many Texans make the cut ?
 
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Polo said:
You're dodging his questions...

How many players on the Titans D would you trade str8 up for our guys ? Schemes be damned...

If you were starting a team, how many of our players would you if you could only pick from our defense and the Titans defense ? One starter from each position, how many Texans make the cut ?
Click to expand...

Morlon Greenwood.
 
Texanmike said:
Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?

The long and short of this team is this. We are the Titans of the late 90's early 2000's. We are getting close. I don't think this is a team that will slowly climb from 7 wins to 12 or 13. This team, to me, will be a 7 winish team (8 or 9 is an outside possibility) for a couple of years (read that this and maybe next... though I really think next year will be a 11 or 12 win season). We have talent in a lot of places. We are missing talent in some key places. Add 3 or 4 guys to this defense and its instantly a vastly different team. I realize that you can say that about most teams... but you can actually do that in an off season.

I think the offense is much closer to what we saw in week 4 than what we saw in weeks 1 and 2. Its on defense that we need a few VERY key pieces to this puzzle. Plug in a big guy in the middle of the line. Replace greenwood. Get a real cover corner. This team is instantly better. Its nice to talk about how we didn't address the needs of this team last year or the year before last, but like everything else in football, its about small progressions keeping the situation manageable.

After the 2-14 season you weren't going to look up and go 13-3. You weren't going to go 10-6. You look to make up ground. Overhaul the OL (vastly different the next year and even more different the following year... now with brown we will finally get some continuity on the line and you guys will be amazed at what that does). Bring in a few components to build on, mario, demeco. Now you have manageable goals for the next year. Add some more pieces, if you can't add starters, add . Look at the roster turnover between years 1 and two of Kubes.

If you can't add starters, add depth. We've taken some gambles. Some haven't paid off (JJ yet) others have. Slaton on the other hand seems to be well on his way to paying off. JJ isn't bad depth, that's for sure. On DL, look at the posibility of having Mario,AO,TJ, and maybe Okam, if he develops (if not, another big guy in the middle) in the rotation. I'm a fan of turning AO into a DE at least part time, switching he and Mario and letting them stunt the hell out of the T/G.

There are bright spots for this team. I originally had us going 9-7... I bought into the hype so to speak because I think this is a 7-8 win team. Its a better team than last years, but its going to have some growing pains. We saw that in Pittsburgh. That was a disaster. We saw that on the punt return.. young players getting turned around... new players not sure of assignments... we'll see it again. Likely for a long time.


Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder.

The bottom line, is this is a team to wait on. How long did Tenn wait on mediocrity before coming dominant. I think we're that same kind of team. I see us putting people in poisition to play in this league for a long long time. If we're not vastly better by the middle of next year, starting to look like a 10+ win team... then its time to panic.

Mike
Click to expand...

who the hell are you?
and what did you do with TexanMike???

Actually, I don't think its true panic. Its more frustration than anything else.
We're frustrated with the defense that can't hold anyone under 30 pts. We're frustrated with dumb decisions that cost us chances we can't afford to lose. We're frustrated with guys who haven't hit the same level of play they were at last year. We're frustrated with the fact that Ahman Green is still drawing a paycheck.

Its not panic. Its frustration.
 
Polo said:
You're dodging his questions...

How many players on the Titans D would you trade str8 up for our guys ? Schemes be damned...

If you were starting a team, how many of our players would you choose if you could only pick from our defense and the Titans defense ? One starter from each position, how many Texans make the cut ?
Click to expand...

This is the whole problem. IF you have a scheme, you get the players to make that scheme work. If they don't fit, get rid of them. This DC, if you can call him that, is running around with his head up his a$$ hoping this player or that player will work out. Know what you want and go after it. The Titans know what they want, The Eagles know what they want, The Steelers know.........
 
TheRealJoker said:
What would the Titans D be ranked if Richard Smith was DC? How would our players have developed on D had they had Jim Schwartz at DC for the past 3 years? I wonder how many Titans players would be starting on the Texans D if that were the case.
Click to expand...

You make some excellent points. If coaching and training didn't have an impact on player performance, there would be no coaches or practices. Talent helps, but players can be somewhat better or far worse depending on coaching, schemes, etc.
 
maddogmrb said:
Isn't that pretty much what we said last year?
Click to expand...

that's what YOU said last year... I was perfectly well aware that this team is not a finished product. I've said every year, I expect improvement... I'm always the one everyone says "stop being so negative" to. At the beginning of the season I said this team had too many holes to compete and was an 8 or 9 win team. I also said it was more likely that we win fewer than 8 games than it was that we win 10.

I'm going with 9-7. Its better than before I sat down and analyzed the schedule but I'm worried about 2 games, Cincy and Oak. Cincy because man they should be able to put up some points this year. I know about Chad, but I think he had a bad year. He'll be back.... and TJ WHOSYOMAMMA... our DBs are going to really struggle that game IMHO. With Oakland. Any team that can play defense can hang around. Those are the two pitfalls I can see. I think we will jump up and surprise too so I think 8-8 or 9-7. I don't see us doing much better or worse because there are as many winalble games as there are loseable games. Now the usual injury disclaimer applies.
Click to expand...

A lot of people are mad because this team is what it is. This isn't the colts at 1-2. This is a team that is very average who is 0-3. Sit down. Rank the teams from 1-32. I bet you don't get past 10 before you've put all the teams we've played in there. Its the perfect storm folks. We start with a well coached very prepared 3-4 defense. Then we get a titans team that is better than anyone imagined (I think I just threw up in my mouth a lil) and then a Jags team who everyone knows is always half a step behind the top tier teams in the league. Oh and they were road games.

The team looks better every week. Our defense will hamper us throughout the year though. We're just not yet there. But if you don't see the pieces starting to fall in place... you're watching from a 11-5 perspective instead of reality.

Mike
 
ObsiWan said:
who the hell are you?
and what did you do with TexanMike???

Actually, I don't think its true panic. Its more frustration than anything else.
We're frustrated with the defense that can't hold anyone under 30 pts. We're frustrated with dumb decisions that cost us chances we can't afford to lose. We're frustrated with guys who haven't hit the same level of play they were at last year. We're frustrated with the fact that Ahman Green is still drawing a paycheck.

Its not panic. Its frustration.
Click to expand...

I haven't changed, the team has. I try to stay pretty even keeled. When ya'll are too high... I try to dampen the euphoria, because we're not there yet.. when ya'll get too low... I try to bring it back up. As much as I enjoy getting lost in euphoria and hate drowning in dispair on sundays, once the game is over, I enjoy being objective. Maybe that's why I'm such a content fan lol

Mike
 
maddogmrb said:
TexanMike said:
"Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?"


Therein lies the problem. After 7 years and 3 years of Kubiak probably 13 of the 16 games we play are against teams better than us.
Click to expand...

Well when you consistently play in the best division in football... and you're building a team, you expect that right off the bat you are going to be the underdog in 6 of your games..

We really started in reverse. This team was worse after four years than it was in its first year. What Kubes and Smith have done over a 3 year period is pretty impressive. The inconsistency and struggles against real good teams are to be expected.

Sit back, enjoy the average team you follow. When they lose to 3 playoff teams, don't get too down... when they beat bottom feeders.. don't get too high... the season will require much less medication if you do that.

Mike
 
I was surprised a couple of times over the past couple of days.

I usually leave NFLN or ESPN on in the background when I work and in a couple of different instances over the past couple of days, guys on the TV have stated that they think the Texans are better than most people think. IIRC, one of those guys was Terrel Davis. Unfortunately, the other one was Skip Bayliss.

So, we're pretty much doomed.
 
maddogmrb said:
mussop said:
Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.
QUOTE]


Seriously, that is NOT what I said at all. What I said is that the problem is that after 7 years, we are still worse than at least 13 of the teams/games on our schedule.
Click to expand...


I dont agree, I guess we'll see. Alot of people are going to have to eat some crow around here after this season IMO.
Click to expand...
 
It does say something about team when the 'reason' they can't win a game is because we shouldn't expect to win against teams A, B, and C.

Team D coming up.
 
It's really not a stretch to say we could be sitting right now at 2-1. Honestly.
If only we were that team Kubiak said we were at the beginning of the year, which is a team on the verge of getting in the playoffs. Or not being happy with anything less than a playoff berth this year. A team really hungry to win.
In spite of one of the most miserable performances ever in Pittsburgh (including the first couple years of this teams existance), we could have gone on the next week and won in Nashville because the Titans seemed to be doing everything they could to give us that game. The breaks early on went our way, but we took advanatage of none of them. And we finally played a game last week, but failed again at the end to make the play(s) necessary to win, while the Jags did.
All I can tell Gary Kubiak is talk is cheap, it means nothing without backing it up.
 
Texanmike said:
that's what YOU said last year...
Mike
Click to expand...

Actually no, that is not what I said last year. I said they would be lucky to duplicate their record if they didn't substantially upgrade the defense in the offseason.

I appreciate your optimism but, if you look at our schedule please tell me which teams we are decidely better than and should be a "no doubt" victory for us. IMO, that would be none! Therefore, we are still in the bottom 4th of our league and it is a stretch to call us an "average" team.
 
maddogmrb said:
Actually no, that is not what I said last year. I said they would be lucky to duplicate their record if they didn't substantially upgrade the defense in the offseason.

I appreciate your optimism but, if you look at our schedule please tell me which teams we are decidely better than and should be a "no doubt" victory for us. IMO, that would be none! Therefore, we are still in the bottom 4th of our league and it is a stretch to call us an "average" team.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I have not made it clear. I'm not calling this a playoff year. I'm saying that those that were, will be disappointed. I'm saying that this is still a building year and that we have added significant pieces to the puzzle. I just don't think that we're as bad as we've looked, I also don't think we're as good as many thought that we were. I think this is a 7-9 win team.

Mike
 
in my stronger moments i'm reminded to go over to ht.com and look at our roster and sort the names by number of years in the league. it's refreshing to remember that 70% of our team is in it's 3rd or 4th year. our oline are babies, we could get alot better with the players we have.

in my weaker moments, until we change DC's and get more talented players....
 
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