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Could Bucs trade for Carr

cuppacoffee said:
Trading Carr would require us to draft a replacement, there are no starting calibre qbs backing up Carr.

:coffee:
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Kind of bad thinking here......... this whole argument, is because many feel David is not starting Caliber himself. So it's basically a what have you got to lose kind of thing, & let's get something for him, while the get'n is good.
 
thunderkyss said:
Kind of bad thinking here......... this whole argument, is because many feel David is not starting Caliber himself. So it's basically a what have you got to lose kind of thing, & let's get something for him, while the get'n is good.
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I agree with TK .... Maybe the rest of the team will play better with another QB . As of right now we average less than 5 wins ayear .
 
KJ3 said:
i don't think we should just jump at a 4th rounder though. i mean, david carr sucks something awful, but he is still a gifted athelete with everything you could want from a qb physically.

and if we are just really looking out for more picks why not throw another player in for some another pick? or say david carr for a 4th round and houston/tampa bay switch 2nd round picks? would that be too much?
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David Carr is a talented QB. With that being said, he doesn't have the heart to become one of the best. I think a trade with the Minnesota Vikings makes the mose sense. Minnesota is in desperate need of a talented QB. Brad Johnson has hit the wall and I don't think Childress is ready to name Tarvaris Jackson or Brooks Bollinger a starter at this point. Let's just pull the trigger on this one and get David Carr out of our minds forever.
 
KJ3 said:
i don't think we should just jump at a 4th rounder though. i mean, david carr sucks something awful, but he is still a gifted athelete with everything you could want from a qb physically.

and if we are just really looking out for more picks why not throw another player in for some another pick? or say david carr for a 4th round and houston/tampa bay switch 2nd round picks? would that be too much?
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YUP..... Too much.
No team "has" to give up anything for Carr.

The Texans, while making comments in the media about interest from other teams, also stated that "David Carr is our QB" only to preserve any bargaining / leverage that we may have. If a shrewd team's front office likes Carr, they would wait as long as possible and offer the very least for him.
Many teams will try to wait, forcing the Texans hand, and hoping that we get desperate to unload him anyway we can.

Remember, whoever trades for Carr would also have to honor his contract - unless Carr decided to re-work it with that team. So, for a team to trade for Carr, they would have to give up a draft choice and pay Carr 5.5 million. Thats a pick and a lot of money, given the circumstances.

If the Texans run out and sign the likes of (shoot me for saying this) Plummer, before Carr could be traded, then teams would wait for the Texans to cut Carr outright which would make him a FA, and all teams interested could simply bid for his services without giving up any picks and more than likely signing him to a deal worth less than his current contract.
 
thunderkyss said:
Kind of bad thinking here......... this whole argument, is because many feel David is not starting Caliber himself. So it's basically a what have you got to lose kind of thing, & let's get something for him, while the get'n is good.
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Lets face it, this whole argument is still taking place because the Texans did not take Vince last yr. Carr needs help, he cannot do it by himself. Sure there are some reads that he needs to improve on, but when our opponents can play with seven DBs and blitz the rest due to a lack of offensive weapons, the QB has no chance of success. Peyton Manning would have problems with out an o-line, running game, and MULTIPLE receiving threats.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I can't believe that's still an argument.
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Vince will transend the position, he has shown flashes already. Many of the Texans fans have been hearing about him since high school and were offended that he was not a part of this team. The argument will go on for the rest of his career. Since David plays the same position, many people blame him that Vince is not a Texan, along w/ Casserly.

But it is the past, we can wish Vince the best without wishing failure on David. If people would actually turn the negativity into support, you may be amazed at the results. David is a better player than anyone we could aquire through trade or free agency. Unless there is some trade or draft magic up Kube's and Smith's sleeves, David is our best chance to succeed. Plummer had a complete team when he was with Kubes, David has not been that fortunate yet. Show me one QB that has taken the punishment Carr has that is still in the league and able to walk, he is very durable.

I'm sure all these people on the get rid of Carr bandwagon were all on the draft Reggie bandwagon last yr. Stop being fare weather fans and start supporting the TEAM.
 
trutxn said:
Lets face it, this whole argument is still taking place because the Texans did not take Vince last yr. Carr needs help, he cannot do it by himself. Sure there are some reads that he needs to improve on, but when our opponents can play with seven DBs and blitz the rest due to a lack of offensive weapons, the QB has no chance of success. Peyton Manning would have problems with out an o-line, running game, and MULTIPLE receiving threats.
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It has nothing to do with Vince Young in my point of view .

We've been through the Manning could'nt do anything with this team . The problem is we've never tried to see what another QB could do so it's unsolved mysteries .

The backups have a higher winning % as starters than Carr does .
 
trutxn said:
Vince will transend the position, he has shown flashes already. Many of the Texans fans have been hearing about him since high school and were offended that he was not a part of this team. The argument will go on for the rest of his career. Since David plays the same position, many people blame him that Vince is not a Texan, along w/ Casserly.

But it is the past, we can wish Vince the best without wishing failure on David. If people would actually turn the negativity into support, you may be amazed at the results. David is a better player than anyone we could aquire through trade or free agency. Unless there is some trade or draft magic up Kube's and Smith's sleeves, David is our best chance to succeed. Plummer had a complete team when he was with Kubes, David has not been that fortunate yet. Show me one QB that has taken the punishment Carr has that is still in the league and able to walk, he is very durable.

I'm sure all these people on the get rid of Carr bandwagon were all on the draft Reggie bandwagon last yr. Stop being fare weather fans and start supporting the TEAM.
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Wrong. Guess again. Thanks for playing though.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
It has nothing to do with Vince Young in my point of view .

We've been through the Manning could'nt do anything with this team . The problem is we've never tried to see what another QB could do so it's unsolved mysteries .

The backups have a higher winning % as starters than Carr does .
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Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.
 
swtbound07 said:
Wrong. Guess again. Thanks for playing though.
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Right and this was the point of my original post. There too many pointing fingers and saying people are just being sheep in one group. I didn't want Bush and I don't think Carr should be our QB. I also didn't want to draft VY. I was all for trading downa nd then taking D-line or a DB. The point is everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks this opinion will make the team better.
 
trutxn said:
Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.
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That's flawed logic in my book. It may be easier for a team to have a bad QB and get there but not having a top flight QB is the exception, not the rule. If this was the case, there would be alot of Leaf's, etal lining up to play with some stacked teams. JMO. I just think we sometimes forget what goes into the position...cadences, playbook, reads, audibles, split second decisions, etc.
 
trutxn said:
Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.
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So lets just keep going in the wrong direction . I know I should have taken a right but I missed the turn so straight it is .
 
HoustonFrog said:
That's flawed logic in my book. It may be easier for a team to have a bad QB and get there but not having a top flight QB is the exception, not the rule. If this was the case, there would be alot of Leaf's, etal lining up to play with some stacked teams. JMO. I just think we sometimes forget what goes into the position...cadences, playbook, reads, audibles, split second decisions, etc.
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Baltimore, Tampa, and Carolina all made it to the Super Bowl with out a good QB. I'm sure there are several other teams that could be named as well.

There are only a handfull of "Great" QBs to ever play the game, so to expect Carr to be great is asking alot. He just needs to be average with a great supporting cast, which we are still in the process of developing.
 
trutxn said:
Baltimore, Tampa, and Carolina all made it to the Super Bowl with out a good QB. I'm sure there are several other teams that could be named as well.

There are only a handfull of "Great" QBs to ever play the game, so to expect Carr to be great is asking alot. He just needs to be average with a great supporting cast, which we are still in the process of developing.
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Most SB winners have a QB that can get it done. Go back to the 70s and almost every QB is a HOFer. Bradhshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Aikman, Favre, Brady, Elway, Manning. The thing is, we pay Carr to be great. He was the #1 pick. The QB is in charge of calling audibles, reading defenses, making plays in the pocket and managing a game. He isn't supposd to be average and with the salary cap and parity you can't count on surrounding a guy with a perfect team. That is a pipe dream. The QBs on the teams you mentioned were a little above average too and had shown something. It isn't the norm. I'm not wasting cap space for average when you can get someone for the future that can help carry you. At some point your QB has to win you a few games.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Most SB winners have a QB that can get it done. Go back to the 70s and almost every QB is a HOFer. Bradhshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Aikman, Favre, Brady, Elway, Manning. The thing is, we pay Carr to be great. He was the #1 pick. The QB is in charge of calling audibles, reading defenses, making plays in the pocket and managing a game. He isn't supposd to be average and with the salary cap and parity you can't count on surrounding a guy with a perfect team. That is a pipe dream. The QBs on the teams you mentioned were a little above average too and had shown something. It isn't the norm. I'm not wasting cap space for average when you can get someone for the future that can help carry you. At some point your QB has to win you a few games.
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Like I said, there are only a handful of "Great" (HOF) QBs, and you ALMOST listed all of them.

What about Dilfer and Johnson, who both won the SB? They were only avg. Dynasties are built with a great QB but you can win without one.
 
trutxn said:
Like I said, there are only a handful of "Great" (HOF) QBs, and you ALMOST listed all of them.

What about Dilfer and Johnson, who both won the SB? They were only avg. Dynasties are built with a great QB but you can win without one.
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Who are we getting for the future this year? The future is good to think about but that is later, Carr is our present and we must deal with the present before we consider the future.
 
trutxn said:
Like I said, there are only a handful of "Great" (HOF) QBs, and you ALMOST listed all of them.

What about Dilfer and Johnson, who both won the SB? They were only avg. Dynasties are built with a great QB but you can win without one.
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Yeah and they have won a majority of the SBs and many of them have multiple titles. Brady was a late round selection. People keep using these examples of Baltimore, etc but that is 2 teams out of dozens. Those teams had special defenses...Top 5 all time type Ds and I think Dilfer was above average and the same with Johnson..who had put up good stats elsewhere. Our problem is that we don't even know if we can get enough conssitency to get to "average." That is a dangerous proposition. The Bears carried Grossman and look what happened in the big one. I wasnt SB titles...not getting far.
 
Carr deserves to go to TB... he will finally get a running game (Williams) a better O-Line, and if they get Carr hope they draft Calvin Johnson. More talent than he ever had in Houston
 
caddy said:
Chris.. where do you get such an idea? Carr got more heart than most QB's. I realize your a hater.. but even they will admit this. Plus on 4th and one or 4th and goal the money is on Carr. He got more flight time over defence stands than most pilots. Wake up.. Carr loves football and he stands tall when a gut check is called for. :shades:
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25-53 as a starter? I don't care how much guts he has. That record has to get better. We can't afford to hold his hand any more. We've already wasted 5 years and $53 million on this guy. LMAO!! Enough is enough!!
 
I am surprised at this rumor and doubt they will be looking to trade for a backup to Simms. I think Carr will end up in the CFL.
 
Navy_Chris said:
25-53 as a starter? I don't care how much guts he has. That record has to get better. We can't afford to hold his hand any more. We've already wasted 5 years and $53 million on this guy. LMAO!! Enough is enough!!
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You know if I am a batter and stand there and let myself get hit by the pitch ... that does'nt really make me tough . What makes you tough is getting up and hurting them by making a play and letting them know you better come harder next time .
 
swtbound07 said:
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NOw that's a sweet BabyBlue Jersey......
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
You know if I am a batter and stand there and let myself get hit by the pitch ... that does'nt really make me tough . What makes you tough is getting up and hurting them by making a play and letting them know you better come harder next time .
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Earl........ you know I ain't no Carr lover. But you know the kid is tough. There is no denying that.

what he needs, is that short memory that an NFL QB needs.

Throw an interception?? He needs to be thinking, "Oh well, we still need 16 yards, so I'm going to chunk it deep", & not, "whoooo- hoooo I got Wali Lundy wide open 10 yards short of the first down"

IF he gets sacked, or nailed just after he throws deep, & the coach calls a draw on 3rd & 22, he needs to say, "nah coach..... I got this. Let me throw it."
 
I guess my point would be ... Randall Tex Cobb let Larry Holmes beat him like a rented mule .... I guess that means he can take a punch .

I'll give David Carr that ... he can take a punch .
 
caddy said:
Chris.. where do you get such an idea? Carr got more heart than most QB's. I realize your a hater.. but even they will admit this. Plus on 4th and one or 4th and goal the money is on Carr. He got more flight time over defence stands than most pilots. Wake up.. Carr loves football and he stands tall when a gut check is called for. :shades:
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LMAO. Apparently, Carr has more family on this board than we thought.
 
A trade with Tampa would be cool. He could easily beat out Simms & we play them next year, so that would be cool to see Mario on him.
 
AS I have read everyone's posts on this message board I have tried to keep my feelings out of alot that has been written about David Carr and I have come to a conclusion that most here have never played organize football in their lives and don't know really what the heck they are talking about. The Texans suck because they are still learning the business and are getting the wrong people to be supportive to one another.No matter if you got rid of Carr the same problems will persist as long as the o-line isn't fixed and a better secondary as well.You also need a reliable runningback who isn't in the trainer's room more than playing the game. Your recievers aren't as good as you think with a lot of dropped passes last season and they did miss some of their assignments on running their routes. Now as for Carr, he did hold the ball a little too long at times and at times he should have just thrown the ball away.Kubiak's system does not allow a QB to audiablize when a defense changes their coverage. It was a team losing season and not because of just one man,Carr. Everyone was confused last season because they all were learning a new system and plus Kubiak had his first season as a head coach. All of this is correctable with patience and a little time.:hides:
 
petedy said:
AS I have read everyone's posts on this message board I have tried to keep my feelings out of alot that has been written about David Carr and I have come to a conclusion that most here have never played organize football in their lives and don't know really what the heck they are talking about. The Texans suck because they are still learning the business and are getting the wrong people to be supportive to one another.No matter if you got rid of Carr the same problems will persist as long as the o-line isn't fixed and a better secondary as well.You also need a reliable runningback who isn't in the trainer's room more than playing the game. Your recievers aren't as good as you think with a lot of dropped passes last season and they did miss some of their assignments on running their routes. Now as for Carr, he did hold the ball a little too long at times and at times he should have just thrown the ball away.Kubiak's system does not allow a QB to audiablize when a defense changes their coverage. It was a team losing season and not because of just one man,Carr. Everyone was confused last season because they all were learning a new system and plus Kubiak had his first season as a head coach. All of this is correctable with patience and a little time.:hides:
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LMAO!! Everyone's been confused for 5 years now, apparently!!!!! I have full faith in Gary and Rick that they can get this team to the Super Bowl. He's already started getting the guys used to winning and they're losing the 'losing mentality'.
 
petedy said:
AS I have read everyone's posts on this message board I have tried to keep my feelings out of alot that has been written about David Carr and I have come to a conclusion that most here have never played organize football in their lives and don't know really what the heck they are talking about.
:hides:
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So if David is not with the Texans in '07, for what reason would you attribute that to??

1) because of the opinion of a lot of people (who've never played organized football in their lives, & don't know what they are talking about) who post on the Houston Texans' Message Board.

2) because of the opinion of two people(Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith) who have been involved with organized football for quite some time.
 
thunderkyss said:
So if David is not with the Texans in '07, for what reason would you attribute that to??

1) because of the opinion of a lot of people (who've never played organized football in their lives, & don't know what they are talking about) who post on the Houston Texans' Message Board.

2) because of the opinion of two people(Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith) who have been involved with organized football for quite some time.
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I'll choose 2 and if David is not with the Texans in 07 they might still know organized footall but they are completely lacking in any fiscal responsibilties and totally inept of any money management.
 
Texian said:
I'll choose 2 and if David is not with the Texans in 07 they might still know organized footall but they are completely lacking in any fiscal responsibilties and totally inept of any money management.
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You're assuming we get Plummer. For all we know, he'll walk. I'm assuming he wants a starting Gig, but Kubiak will want him to compete with Sage.

He's seen them both, so he'll probably have an idea of who would win anyway.

But no one is going to be happy knowing the job was just given to Plummer.

Anyway. If Plummer passes on us, & we cut Carr, we could go into '07 with Sage, Van Pelt, & Stanton...... which would be pretty atractive, fiscally.
 
thunderkyss said:
You're assuming we get Plummer. For all we know, he'll walk. I'm assuming he wants a starting Gig, but Kubiak will want him to compete with Sage.

He's seen them both, so he'll probably have an idea of who would win anyway.

But no one is going to be happy knowing the job was just given to Plummer.

Anyway. If Plummer passes on us, & we cut Carr, we could go into '07 with Sage, Van Pelt, & Stanton...... which would be pretty atractive, fiscally.
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Yes, that is assuming Plummer. I can't envision Shanahan letting him walk, he would take a 5th or 6th RD pick before letting him walk. There will be some bidders for Plummer's services so it will most likely be a higher pick.

If they are dead set in wanting a starting caliber QB this year, I would roll the dice and give up the 1st pick for Matt Schaub vs a 3 or 4 for Plummer. The upside, ceiling and long term value is much greater with Schaub. Schaub has been in a similar Kubiak system in college and 3 years in Atlanta. His learning curve is minimal and he could start today. Many will ridicule me for this but I say it as a last resort for bringing in another high profile QB now.

Sage, Van Pelt & Stanton is not all that bad when you consider you will have your chances at Brohm, Booty and Ainge in next years draft. At this stage they appear more attractive than this year's draft. It is not bad at all if it allows you to sign someone like Pettigout.
 
Texian said:
Yes, that is assuming Plummer. I can't envision Shanahan letting him walk, he would take a 5th or 6th RD pick before letting him walk. There will be some bidders for Plummer's services so it will most likely be a higher pick.

If they are dead set in wanting a starting caliber QB this year, I would roll the dice and give up the 1st pick for Matt Schaub vs a 3 or 4 for Plummer. The upside, ceiling and long term value is much greater with Schaub. Schaub has been in a similar Kubiak system in college and 3 years in Atlanta. His learning curve is minimal and he could start today. Many will ridicule me for this but I say it as a last resort for bringing in another high profile QB now.

Sage, Van Pelt & Stanton is not all that bad when you consider you will have your chances at Brohm, Booty and Ainge in next years draft. At this stage they appear more attractive than this year's draft. It is not bad at all if it allows you to sign someone like Pettigout.
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I'm asking, because I really don't know. But why is Matt Shaub a better option at starting QB than Sage Rosenfels?? Sage has looked Poised & ready to take the reigns..... he may not ever be Montana, or even Jim Kelly. But he could easily be a Chris Chandler or Rich Gannon. Good enough for us to win games, and and allow our team to develop while we look for our franchise QB.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm asking, because I really don't know. But why is Matt Shaub a better option at starting QB than Sage Rosenfels?? Sage has looked Poised & ready to take the reigns..... he may not ever be Montana, or even Jim Kelly. But he could easily be a Chris Chandler or Rich Gannon. Good enough for us to win games, and and allow our team to develop while we look for our franchise QB.
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I agree with your thoughts on Sage, my reference to Schaub was an alternative to bringing in a veteran QB. I am really not an advocate for signing Schaub or Plummer. If they were to go that route I would prefer Schaub. Chandler and Gannon both made it to the Super Bowl. I really like the idea of opening the door for a fair competition between Carr, Sage and Van Pelt.

As a backup plan I would certainly try to trade the #8 pick to another team for their 2nd and 3rd RD picks this year and their 1st RD pick next year. Hopefully you could bundle the two 1st RD picks in 08 and move up to select the best available QB. Similar to what Denver did to get Cutler.
 
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