New Offensive Line...

[baba ganoush]

BEFORE...

Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Steve McKinney - Fred Weary - Eric Winston

Free Agency and Draft
I think we should shoot for a guy like Eric Steinbach or Rick DeMulling to play guard...Then I think we should maybe draft Aaron Sears or Ryan Kalil with our second pick...If we choose Sears in the second, maybe we caould look for a guy like Doug Datish in the third...we need to get a guy that can be solid in the middle for years to come... i honestly dont think that Hodgdon is our true answer, but i like him as depth, and i say we should try him out as guard also...

AFTER...

(Best case scenario)
Charles Spencer - Eric Steinbach - Ryan Kalil - Chester Pitts - Eric Winston

(2nd Best case scenario: if Spencer cany return)
Arron Sears - Chester Pitts - Doug Datish - Rick DeMulling - Eric Winston

(Worst case scenario)
Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Drew Hodgdon - Fred Weary - Eric Winston

 

[Texans Horror]

BEFORE...

Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Steve McKinney - Fred Weary - Eric Winston

Free Agency and Draft
I think we should shoot for a guy like Eric Steinbach or Rick DeMulling to play guard...Then I think we should maybe draft Aaron Sears or Ryan Kalil with our second pick...If we choose Sears in the second, maybe we caould look for a guy like Doug Datish in the third...we need to get a guy that can be solid in the middle for years to come... i honestly dont think that Hodgdon is our true answer, but i like him as depth, and i say we should try him out as guard also...

AFTER...

(Best case scenario)
Charles Spencer - Eric Steinbach - Ryan Kalil - Chester Pitts - Eric Winston

(2nd Best case scenario: if Spencer cany return)
Arron Sears - Chester Pitts - Doug Datish - Rick DeMulling - Eric Winston

(Worst case scenario)
Ephram Saleem - Chester Pitts - Drew Hodgdon - Fred Weary - Eric Winston

I don't think it will be your worst case scenario. That was a total bust last year, and one thing the Texans have been good about recently is applying new people when a position goes bust. I think it will be something more along the lines of

Spencer - Pitts - Kalil/Datish - Weary - Winston

or

Brown - Pitts - Weary - Winston - Spencer

 

[beerlover]

first we need to thank Ephram Saleem for not giving up & playing hurt nearly all season, as stop gaps go he did as much as could be expected as a journeyman tackle.

When Spencer returns he will move to his natural position for the NFL @ RT maybe rotate with Winston & try and stay healthy while rehabing for a year of two.

Weary & Pitts are your long term Guards of the Texans.

McKinney, Hodgdon & Flanagan. the Texans will have to release one of these guys if they plan to use a 1st day pick on a Center. I guess if they can upgrade through the draft & a guy they like slips into the 3rd/4th rd.(Kalil/Datish) they may exercise some option otherwise I'm not convinced they will do much at least as of right now.

Left tackle is so key to this team & any success to be expected from the QB position that it should be addressed regardless if its widely accepted as the bpa or not. the only thing that matters is what Smith & Kubiak think & we won't know much of anything until they send out invitations to Relient. its gonna be real interesting/exciting to see who they think highly enough of to bring in for private workouts

 

[YoungTexanFan]

When Spencer returns he will move to his natural position for the NFL @ RT

I see him as a much more natural RG in the NFL. Always have, and probally always will. He is a mauler suited for OG in the NFL IMO.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Question: What's the deal with Eric Winston?

Has he improved enough to be our clear cut Right Tackle? How did he progress through the season.. ?

 

[thunderkyss]

For the most part, I agree with beerlover.

Pitts & Weary are going to be here for a while. I might even go so far as to consider Winston an Anchor on the right side. Our two biggest areas of need(on the O Line) are LT, and Center.

The best thing that we can do for our offensive line, is start the same 5 guys we finished the season with.. at the postions they played. To me, that means starting Ephraim, unless Spencer is 100%, and can play on the left side. If they look at Spencer, and think he may have to move to the right side, we have to start Ephraim on the left.

If we get Levi Brown, and he catches on really, really quick, we can start him on the left side...... ideally, this would still be after two or three games....... Subbing him in when the game is not on the line. End of the half, Start of the third.... after we are blowing someone out.......

If we don't get Levi, and Spencer won't be 100% for a few weeks, then Salaam has to start until he can.......... hopefully it won't be more than 4 games.

Without a first round LT, without Spencer, we are going to have to get someone who can play the position eventually. We may have to ride Salaam througout the season.... & though I may be his biggest supporter, I'd rather not see that.

Center....... McKinney starts... maybe Hogdon just needs a little more time.... but I personally think he is not going to cut it...... Try him out as a guard(for depth) maybe....... but we need to get another center in here, & soon, because Flannagan is on his last leg, and McKinney ain't no spring chicken either....

I hope that we aren't so desperate that we have to start 2 rookies on our offensive line. If that is the case.... then I do in fact have a poor feel for the talent on this team. and we were lucky to be 6-10 in '06.

 

[yourfavoritetexan42]

I think McKinney always did a good job at center, he just wasn't a good guard. I think our interior, Pitts/McKinney/Weary can be a good corps. Winston being Right Tackle and Spencer being left tackle can be pretty good as well. I would just like to get another tackle to add depth for spencer, and another center to take over for mckinney, then after that we willl have a young talented offensive line.

 

[Zac]

I think that Eric Winston is still recovering from his injury in college. It was that injury that pushed him down from a possible top 10 guy to the 3rd round.


Of course for offensive linemen, some injuries are irreversible. They just have to deal with them.



Ideally last season I was looking at

Winston -- Weary -- Flannigan -- Pitts -- Spencer


I think that now with Spencer's career still in question; a solid LT is very important; therefore a concern. Salaam who did adequate considering all of the problems (helping the team to a remarkable 6-10 season).


Ephraam Salam you're

 

[Trap_Star]

I see him as a much more natural RG in the NFL. Always have, and probally always will. He is a mauler suited for OG in the NFL IMO.

I agree.

Best scenerio: (for me)

LT: Rookie (Brown or Staley)
LG: Pitts
C: Weary (give him a try at center)
RG: Winston
RT: Spencer

Note: Have Winston and Spencer battle for the RT spot. Loser moves to guard...

 

[beerlover]

I agree.

Best scenerio: (for me)

LT: Rookie (Brown or Staley)
LG: Pitts
C: Weary (give him a try at center)
RG: Winston
RT: Spencer

Note: Have Winston and Spencer battle for the RT spot. Loser moves to guard...

I like the idea of having a mauler playing RT I think that suits the position well, not to mention Spencers power, hand punch, girth, long arms & foot speed (assuming he can fully recover from his severe break). Winston looks like a good back-up where ever you need guard or tackle help, he just lacks the measrueables, yet fills a valued team role- adding depth.

 

[texanfan2100]

If we get Levi Brown, and he catches on really, really quick, we can start him on the left side...... ideally, this would still be after two or three games....... Subbing him in when the game is not on the line. End of the half, Start of the third.... after we are blowing someone out.......

If you draft a tackle in the top 10, he had better start from day one. Especially on an offensive line that is "limited" on talent. If it is thought that Brown can't start from day one, then he's probably not special enough to be a top 10 draft pick.

 

[threetoedpete]

If you draft a tackle in the top 10, he had better start from day one. Especially on an offensive line that is "limited" on talent. If it is thought that Brown can't start from day one, then he's probably not special enough to be a top 10 draft pick.

Last time we took this attitude...we missed on the two starters who will play next weekend in the pro bowl, McNeil and Jamall Brown. I don't think that Levi Brown is athletic as Joe Thomas or Boselli. I do believe, unless Spencer comes back at more than 90%, Brown beats him out of camp for OLT.

And what is so wrong about having two front line tackles ? Eventually you have to admit that selecting garbage free agents at the tackle positions has cost the franchise a lot. Up to intepretation how much of a hole that is. TK has got the grey beard starting again at OLT. Do you realy want to start the '07 season with Salaam as the best option at OLT ? I wouldn't do it unless I was planning to tank the season for draft position in '08. I don't think Kubiak and Smith minds work that way.

 

[keyfro]

right now i think kubiak is happy with weary and pitts as the guards on this team...we need better depth behind them but look for center and tackle to be the main point of emphasis during the offseason not guard

 

[YoungTexanFan]

I think McKinney always did a good job at center, he just wasn't a good guard. I think our interior, Pitts/McKinney/Weary can be a good corps. Winston being Right Tackle and Spencer being left tackle can be pretty good as well. I would just like to get another tackle to add depth for spencer, and another center to take over for mckinney, then after that we willl have a young talented offensive line.

McKinney sucked hard at C, but was admirable before us as an OG for the Colts.

 

[rickyb]

I hope that we aren't so desperate that we have to start 2 rookies on our offensive line.

Worked out OK for the Oilers back in the day. One of 'em just was inducted into the HOF. I'm just saying.

Actually, I will be more explicit. Winners rise to the level of expectations placed upon them. Treat a man like a man, tell him he has a job to do, that the team is counting on him, provide him the resources he needs....and it should not take long to figure out if he has what it takes.

I'll close by saying that I'm a believer in Kubiak and Smith.

 

[beerlover]

not to sound like a broken record but revisit what the NY Jets accomplished last year with two rookies starting @ Center & Left Tackle. If Levi & Kalil are there for the pick'en they actually represent even better value (both would be selected a little later in the order) & last year was a supposed to be a deeper draft.

 

[painekiller]

I think that Eric Winston is still recovering from his injury in college. It was that injury that pushed him down from a possible top 10 guy to the 3rd round.

Of course for offensive linemen, some injuries are irreversible. They just have to deal with them.

I think Eric has always relied on natural ability and quickness to be a tackle in college. I do not think technique was drilled into him enough (like most college O linemen). In the NFL Eric is just another big guy, and the NFL DEs learn from play to play, unlike the college guys with only one move. He is like most guys, he had rough times but he should get better as his footwork, hand moves, and body lean become second nature. Also remember you are taking a guy who always swung from the left and moving him across the plate and asking him to swing from the right side against all stars competition.

Lets see what happens.

 

[Texans Horror]

not to sound like a broken record but revisit what the NY Jets accomplished last year with two rookies starting @ Center & Left Tackle. If Levi & Kalil are there for the pick'en they actually represent even better value (both would be selected a little later in the order) & last year was a supposed to be a deeper draft.

There are two good reasons for the Texans to draft high on the o-line. One is to better evaluate Carr, whose supporters have a sound argument that he never received good protection. Adding Brown and Kalil/Datish to the starting lineup would be an immediate impact and reduce sacks and hurries. Second, if the Texans decide that they want to start looking to a future beyond Carr, that QB will also need a good line. Build it while you can, from the trenches outward.

If you draft a tackle in the top 10, he had better start from day one. Especially on an offensive line that is "limited" on talent. If it is thought that Brown can't start from day one, then he's probably not special enough to be a top 10 draft pick.

Agreed. If Spencer is drafted in the third round but starts day one, then certainly the second-highest-rated tackle in the draft would start on the line. Last season, every Texans' draft pick made a significant contribution to the starting line. I don't expect less this season.

I could see, however, that McKinney or Weary starts the season at Center, with the drafted center being rotated in for a few games.

 

[thunderkyss]

Last time we took this attitude...we missed on the two starters who will play next weekend in the pro bowl, McNeil and Jamall Brown. I don't think that Levi Brown is athletic as Joe Thomas or Boselli. I do believe, unless Spencer comes back at more than 90%, Brown beats him out of camp for OLT.

And what is so wrong about having two front line tackles ? Eventually you have to admit that selecting garbage free agents at the tackle positions has cost the franchise a lot. Up to intepretation how much of a hole that is. TK has got the grey beard starting again at OLT. Do you realy want to start the '07 season with Salaam as the best option at OLT ? I wouldn't do it unless I was planning to tank the season for draft position in '08. I don't think Kubiak and Smith minds work that way.

Old Gray beard played pretty darn well, when he wasn't knicked up. Freeney didn't touch David because of him, Taylor didn't get close to David until Bedell came in, Demarcus Ware couldn't sniff David Carr...

I don't want him playing more than 4 games if Spencer isn't healthy. If he is, then Spencer should get the start, since technically it's his spot. If he could use another 4 weeks to heal...... let him heal. That's all I'm saying.

As far as stating Levi Brown..... I'll just say I don't know. I just don't know.

As fas as my comment, that I hope we don't start two rookies on the OL. That to me would mean that Kubiak screwed up, and the guys he thought could play on the line can't. Whether that be McKinney, Flanagan, Weary, or Winston...... It would mean I was wrong, and we are as bad as some have been saying we are.

If Levi gets the start over Salaam on the left side.... fine. If we draft someone to start at Center....... to me, two of the most important areas of the line, then we're starting from scratch. Forget '06, that was wasted time, & we have to start the learning process all over again.

 

[beerlover]

As fas as my comment, that I hope we don't start two rookies on the OL. That to me would mean that Kubiak screwed up, and the guys he thought could play on the line can't. Whether that be McKinney, Flanagan, Weary, or Winston...... It would mean I was wrong, and we are as bad as some have been saying we are.

If Levi gets the start over Salaam on the left side.... fine. If we draft someone to start at Center....... to me, two of the most important areas of the line, then we're starting from scratch. Forget '06, that was wasted time, & we have to start the learning process all over again.

food for thought-

how would y'all feel going QB with 8th pick if JaMarcus or Brady where drafted starting their career's playing behind the Texans current line?

how would y'all feel taking Adrien Peterson with that 8th pick? how many productive, injury riddled years would he have in the NFL playing behind this line or facsimilie thereof?

sometimes you got take whats offered & just roll with the punches, this draft sets up well for the Texans to revamp the entire offensive line if they so choose, solidifying the group to play here over the next decade. I'm afraid its too late already for Carr, but we'll never know unless they upgrade this line. I know Kubiak understands the importance with Shermans help they tried to address their needs last year in the off season signing free agent Center Mike Flanagan & LT Ephraam Salam. both are near the end of their playing days & bodies are breaking down, what they provide is experience & leadership. Spencers injury was most unfortunate, can't blame Kubiak for that but even coming out of College 100% he was projected as a guard. Winston has struggled & demonstrates the difficulty of coming back from the devastating acl injurys these big positional players seem to experience on a regular basis.

looks to me no matter how you slice it this is going to be another transitional year for the Texans offensive line, same old song & dance regardless if you keep the old or bring in the new so might as well do it right for a change & get it done, as Nike says "Just do it"

 

[real]

I think a lot of this depends on Spencer and how the coaches feel about his recovery. My gut tells me that they are not going to take Levi Jones. I believe we will sign a couple free agent tackles to go into camp, and maybe a few gaurds.

I think the position on the O-line that will recieve attention in the draft is center. We just drafted two young tackles, and I think they are going to atleast give Spencer a chance. If we draft a tackle high and Spencer comes back able to plat LT, it might have been a pick spent more wisely. I think if Spencer can't come back and play LT, we'll do more patch work for a year and then going into next years draft there won't be any questions and we'll be looking for a LT early.

Next year best case scenario:

LT-Spener,Free Agent
LG-Pitts,McKinney, Bedell
C-Datish(3rd or 2nd) ?, Flannagan
RG-Weary, McKinney
RT-Winston, Salaam

If Spencer can't play LT:

LT: free agent/Salaam, Spencer
LG: Pitts,McKinney
C: Datish(3rd),Flannagan
RG: Spencer, Weary
RT: Winston,Free Agent


Bottom line is that I don't think we'll be taking any gaurds or tackles in the draft. And I also think that Spencer will be able to play LT for us.

 

[yourfavoritetexan42]

McKinney sucked hard at C, but was admirable before us as an OG for the Colts.

Him and Leach were the only changes added to Ron Dayne later in the season, and that is when he had his most success. He seemed like the most consistent starter for us this season, and in years past. I feel we have bigger holes in our offensive line, and mckinney can fill in until we have the luxury of using picks/signs to address the center problem

 

[beerlover]

I think a lot of this depends on Spencer and how the coaches feel about his recovery. My gut tells me that they are not going to take Levi Jones. I believe we will sign a couple free agent tackles to go into camp, and maybe a few gaurds.

I think the position on the O-line that will recieve attention in the draft is center. We just drafted two young tackles, and I think they are going to atleast give Spencer a chance. If we draft a tackle high and Spencer comes back able to plat LT, it might have been a pick spent more wisely. I think if Spencer can't come back and play LT, we'll do more patch work for a year and then going into next years draft there won't be any questions and we'll be looking for a LT early.

Next year best case scenario:

LT-Spener,Free Agent
LG-Pitts,McKinney, Bedell
C-Datish(3rd or 2nd) ?, Flannagan
RG-Weary, McKinney
RT-Winston, Salaam

If Spencer can't play LT:

LT: free agent/Salaam, Spencer
LG: Pitts,McKinney
C: Datish(3rd),Flannagan
RG: Spencer, Weary
RT: Winston,Free Agent


Bottom line is that I don't think we'll be taking any gaurds or tackles in the draft. And I also think that Spencer will be able to play LT for us.

you may be right, I certainly hope your right about Spencer, however after seeing what can happen & fighting this problem the entire history of the Texans orgainization, contributing to a failing grade for the franchise QB that alone speaks volumes.

Brown & Thomas are as good of combo LT's to come out since the Texans have been drafting (possibly because of weak classes where the Texans have picked in the past the reason they have failed to address this need) the quality of the crop drops off rather quickly after that & as far as free agents go the Rileys & Salaams can only do so much.

 

[real]

Brown & Thomas are as good of combo LT's to come out since the Texans have been drafting (possibly because of weak classes where the Texans have picked in the past the reason they have failed to address this need) the quality of the crop drops off rather quickly after that ...

That's why I dont think we'll take a tackle this year...I think they would rather go the free agent route this year, and atleast give Spencer a chance to come back healthy before they essentially waste a pick. I believe the best shot we have a drafting a LT would be in the first rd. trying to target Levi Jones. And I honestly doubt we'll do that.

...the Rileys & Salaams can only do so much.

I understand this, and I would imagine, so does Kubiak. But you can't fix all of your problems in one off-season. I don't see us a championship contender next year, so it really doesn't bother me to have to wait a year to see if Spencer can pan out. Heck we've waited 5 yrs. and counting on Carr...

 

[beerlover]

for anyone with the excuse of Levi Brown is a reach if the Texans pick him with the 8th pick, one of the paid draft sites I use (NFL Draft Scout) just came out with updated rankings of all the draft eligible players & they have Levi ranked as the #6 overall prospect so I don't want to hear anymore of that crap

rest of Texans draft picks via nfl draft scout ratings around the Texans slotted picks per rd. (only exact #'s are David Irons/Kevin Kolb).

2nd. Chris Houston, CB rated #43
3rd. David Irons, RB rated #73
4th. Kevin Kolb, QB #104
5th. David Ball, WR #135
6th. Drew Mormino, C #175
7th. Rory Johnson, OLB #208

here is some info on the last couple guys some of you may not be aware of.

Noticed Drew Mormino, Center for Central Michigan while scouting OT Joe Staley & wondered who was this guy? about what you expect from a Blue-collar type of offensive lineman, also has played some guard, exhibits good technique & work habits. uses good knee bend in his stance, delivering his hands up quickly to grab, catch and punch the defender with the body control to stay with the more athletic pass rusher and works well in combination with his guards, used a wide base, has powerful legs and good balance prevent defenders from walking him back in pass protection. I also liked his build alot more than Hodgdon rather compact, powerfull but not overally quick, still a possible alternate to one of the elite Centers & good value for a 6th rd. pick in a need area.

Rory Johnson played w/Patrick Willis, Mississippi as his wing man. finished the season second on the team in tackles (94) noticed him while actually scouting Willis, seemed natural athleticly to cover the outside lanes while Willis plugged the middle with legitimate NFL size and athleticism. underclassman with explosive hitting ability, really drives though his man & finishes the play. raw & under utilized/overshawdoed by Willis to get a player that could provide help for the Texans in the 7th rd. would be quite a statement.

 

[painekiller]

7th. Rory Johnson, OLB #208

Rory Johnson played w/Patrick Willis, Mississippi as his wing man. finished the season second on the team in tackles (94) noticed him while actually scouting Willis, seemed natural athleticly to cover the outside lanes while Willis plugged the middle with legitimate NFL size and athleticism. underclassman with explosive hitting ability, really drives though his man & finishes the play. raw & under utilized/overshawdoed by Willis to get a player that could provide help for the Texans in the 7th rd. would be quite a statement.

Are you really thinking Johnson will fall to the 7th? I was thinking 3 or 4 is where he will go.(Not that I would know, I am just guessing at him currently). He has tools. He just is a year further away than most want him to be. Going pro now though will allow him to get much better coaching. And he should be a very good special teamer.

 

[Scooter]

nevermind ... will repost later

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

2nd. Chris Houston, CB rated #43
3rd. David Irons, RB rated #73
4th. Kevin Kolb, QB #104
5th. David Ball, WR #135
6th. Drew Mormino, C #175
7th. Rory Johnson, OLB #208

Is that supposed to be David Irons the CB or Kenny Irons the RB?

 

[beerlover]

Is that supposed to be David Irons the CB or Kenny Irons the RB?

I would actually like to have both brothers play for the Texans must have been some kind of Freudian slip, I meant to say Kenny, my aplogies....to bad the Texans don't have a couple 3rds again

this would be about the right area to address RB. Kenny has excellent footwork, good power & cut back moves, gets to the hole quickly & runs downhill. he is a little smaller back (5011 198) so compliments Chris & Walli size & skill nicely adding cat quickness with ability to take it outside or inside. also important to Kubiak & Carr is Kenny is one of the better blocking backs coming out, they teach this at Auburn & he is a real football player well versed in the fundamentals. the only reason he falls to the 3rd rd. is because his Senior season was a bit of dissapointment, had some injurys, missed a couple games and then like Levi had to work himself back into shape. I really like both Irons brothers because of their competitive juices, anyone who has a brother & competed their whole lives in athletics know just how fierce a rivalry siblings can get. David is the smarter one but not as physically strong (strong for a CB however) while Kenny fits the RB profile always expected to take the punishment & exhibits a natural toughness because of the relationship.

this would be a fine draft for the Texans, however I know its not going to please everyone out there, but it addresses needs across the roster with excellent value w/each pick. franchise LT, young shutdown corner, playmakeing RB w/speed & toughness, QB to groom, deep threat @ WR, future starting Center for the OL & WLB made for Richard Smiths 4-3 next to DeMeco Ryans.

1st Levi Brown, OT
2nd Chris Houston, CB
3rd Kenny Irons, RB
4th Kevin Kolb, QB
5th David Ball, WR
6th Drew Mormino, C
7th Rory Johnson, OLB

 

[BattleRedToro]

I would actually like to have both brothers play for the Texans must have been some kind of Freudian slip, I meant to say Kenny, my aplogies....to bad the Texans don't have a couple 3rds again

this would be about the right area to address RB. Kenny has excellent footwork, good power & cut back moves, gets to the hole quickly & runs downhill. he is a little smaller back (5011 198) so compliments Chris & Walli size & skill nicely adding cat quickness with ability to take it outside or inside. also important to Kubiak & Carr is Kenny is one of the better blocking backs coming out, they teach this at Auburn & he is a real football player well versed in the fundamentals. the only reason he falls to the 3rd rd. is because his Senior season was a bit of dissapointment, had some injurys, missed a couple games and then like Levi had to work himself back into shape. I really like both Irons brothers because of their competitive juices, anyone who has a brother & competed their whole lives in athletics know just how fierce a rivalry siblings can get. David is the smarter one but not as physically strong (strong for a CB however) while Kenny fits the RB profile always expected to take the punishment & exhibits a natural toughness because of the relationship.

this would be a fine draft for the Texans, however I know its not going to please everyone out there, but it addresses needs across the roster with excellent value w/each pick. franchise LT, young shutdown corner, playmakeing RB w/speed & toughness, QB to groom, deep threat @ WR, future starting Center for the OL & WLB made for Richard Smiths 4-3 next to DeMeco Ryans.

1st Levi Brown, OT
2nd Chris Houston, CB
3rd Kenny Irons, RB
4th Kevin Kolb, QB
5th David Ball, WR
6th Drew Mormino, C
7th Rory Johnson, OLB

That would be great if a team could draft Kevin Kolb in the 4th Round but it won't happen. I'm positive he will go in the first 3 rounds maybe even in the 1st Round.