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Assuming Carr is done in Houston who is the upgrade?

Rightnow

Rightnow

Waterboy
I keep here echoes of "anyone but Carr!". Let's just say for a moment that Carr is finished in Houston, and we don't even get a seventh rounder for him. He is simply fired.

So whom do you put in his place? Whom is a true long term upgrade? If he isn't a long term upgrade, then what is the game plan for the long term?

I'd like some answers other than "get rid of Carr." That is only half of the issue the other half is trying to upgrade the position. Remember the job of a GM is to upgrade the position, not to just fire players.

Keep in mind too that if you put in an average vet like Sage or Jake then we could go 8-8, 9-7, 7-9, or so, stopping us from drafting a stud first round QB like VY or Lineirt

What I'm getting at is I want to read realistic solutions to our QB problem.
 
The solution is easy...

Play Sage until we draft a QB that Kubes can groom....
 
threetoedpete said:
ABC....Anyone But Carr.
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I don't understand your line of thinking...

I'll say it again:

If your girlfriend cheats on you are you going to stay with her because you're scared you can't find anyone better ?

Or are you gonna jump into the ocean and go fishing ?

You don't stick with someone that isn't treating you right because you think that you can't do better....If you know what you have isn't good, you have to explore and fish around until you find what you're looking for....Otherwise you'll be stuck with that trash forever because you will never know whats out there...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
The solution is easy...

Play Sage until we draft a QB that Kubes can groom....
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are you trying to get the first overall in 08... or do you actually think Sage can get it done. You know there is a reason he is a career backup. Not saying Carr is the awnser but Sage certainly is not.
 
canadiantexan said:
are you trying to get the first overall in 08... or do you actually think Sage can get it done. You know there is a reason he is a career backup. Not saying Carr is the awnser but Sage certainly is not.
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Just like there was a reason Tom Brady was selected late in the draft ?

Just like there was a reason Marques Colston was darn near Mr. irrelevant ?

Just like there was a reason Tony Romo WAS a career backup ?


Give me a break....
 
i can somewhat buy that argument considering how he was behind gus ferrotte on the depth chart last yr at miami. however, u are what you show on the field, and sage has shown himself to be a very capable QB, especially if kubiak involved him in the gameplanning process late in the season. he played a significant amount of time in only one game. we saw quite a bit, but that was when tennessee's defense couldnt stop anybody. they got better as the season progressed, but still. i would like to see more from sage besides what he did vs a crappy defense at the time and in the preseason. a great majority of this team is "extremely young". i think we need to draft a QB with our second pick and do what the colts did with manning, throw him out there right away and let him grow with the rest of the team.
 
canadiantexan said:
are you trying to get the first overall in 08... or do you actually think Sage can get it done. You know there is a reason he is a career backup. Not saying Carr is the awnser but Sage certainly is not.
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When Sage comes in, passes get completed for 20+ yards. The ball moves down the field.

That in itself is reason to start him.
 
TEXANS84 said:
Do we need 8,543 different threads about Carr?
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Seriously. This is maybe the tenth new thread started in the last three days about replacing Carr, let alone the usual criticism, "analysis," and all-purpose Carr threads.
 
I never saw Sage play until he arrived in Houston, so I can't really comment about his past...

But the few plays that I have seen, Sage looks like a darn good QB....JMO....
 
Battle Red Bull said:
When Sage comes in, passes get completed for 20+ yards. The ball moves down the field.

That in itself is reason to start him.
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That's assuming that the Texans are so far behind that the other team (titans) go into their prevent defense? Let's face it, your example comes from a game that wasn't as close as the 28-22 final would suggest. I will say this again. Sage had the opportunity to win the starting QB position in Miami and couldn't do it. Some people are starting pitchers and some are releif pitchers. Sage would be the equivalent of the upper eschelon of releif pitchers (i.e. Trevor Hoffman).
 
TEXANS84 said:
Do we need 8,543 different threads about Carr?
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If you have to ask.........

xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't understand your line of thinking...

I'll say it again:

If your girlfriend cheats on you are you going to stay with her because you're scared you can't find anyone better ?

Or are you gonna jump into the ocean and go fishing ?

You don't stick with someone that isn't treating you right because you think that you can't do better....If you know what you have isn't good, you have to explore and fish around until you find what you're looking for....Otherwise you'll be stuck with that trash forever because you will never know whats out there...
Click to expand...

uh..... you aren't having relations with our aquatic friends are you?? :yes:
 
thunderkyss said:
uh..... you aren't having relations with our aquatic friends are you?? :yes:
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Not any more...:secret:


angelina_jolie1.jpg
 
Texan_Bill said:
That's assuming that the Texans are so far behind that the other team (titans) go into their prevent defense? Let's face it, your example comes from a game that wasn't as close as the 28-22 final would suggest. I will say this again. Sage had the opportunity to win the starting QB position in Miami and couldn't do it. Some people are starting pitchers and some are releif pitchers. Sage would be the equivalent of the upper eschelon of releif pitchers (i.e. Trevor Hoffman).
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Sage played more than just the Titans game. JAX has a better defense than the Titans and he moved the ball on them too.
 
Texan_Bill said:
That's assuming that the Texans are so far behind that the other team (titans) go into their prevent defense? Let's face it, your example comes from a game that wasn't as close as the 28-22 final would suggest. I will say this again. Sage had the opportunity to win the starting QB position in Miami and couldn't do it. Some people are starting pitchers and some are releif pitchers. Sage would be the equivalent of the upper eschelon of releif pitchers (i.e. Trevor Hoffman).
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& that makes David a what?? Ball boy??

Just listening to the way Kubiak talks about Sage, I'd be fine with seeiing him Start.... as a matter of fact, if I Kubiak came out today, and said he would start Sage in '07 I bet most fans would be thrilled and excited about it. & Until Miami produces a starting QB, I'm going to believe they didn't know what the heck they had all along.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
I wonder what will happen to the boards if Carr DOES leave?

Nobody will know what to talk about.
:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:
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We'll start with another two years of Carr debate in the NFL zone. Whether he sucks, flourishes, or continues to be okay, we'll here the I-told-you-so's and the excuse parade, for either Carr or the Texans in cutting him loose.

After that, who knows?
 
canadiantexan said:
are you trying to get the first overall in 08... or do you actually think Sage can get it done. You know there is a reason he is a career backup. Not saying Carr is the awnser but Sage certainly is not.
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And you've seen enough of Sage to make that decision? He wouldn't be the first journeyman that finally found a good home and made people realize what he really had to offer.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Just like there was a reason Tom Brady was selected late in the draft ?

Just like there was a reason Marques Colston was darn near Mr. irrelevant ?

Just like there was a reason Tony Romo WAS a career backup ?


Give me a break....
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Tom Brady made good on his first NFL starting oppurtunity.....Sage has had more than one and done almost nothing ( I say almost because he did play well against the Titans this year)

Maques Colston is again another guy who has made good(Proved he belongs) on his first chance not after years of doing nothing. But why are we talking about a reciever in this conversation.

Tony Romo is actually a pretty good argument because he was in a situation like Sage is now. But for every Tony Romo there are a hundred guys who bombed.

and lets not act like a Tom Brady comes along everyday.
 
TexanFanInCC said:
i can somewhat buy that argument considering how he was behind gus ferrotte on the depth chart last yr at miami. however, u are what you show on the field, and sage has shown himself to be a very capable QB, especially if kubiak involved him in the gameplanning process late in the season. he played a significant amount of time in only one game. we saw quite a bit, but that was when tennessee's defense couldnt stop anybody. they got better as the season progressed, but still. i would like to see more from sage besides what he did vs a crappy defense at the time and in the preseason. a great majority of this team is "extremely young". i think we need to draft a QB with our second pick and do what the colts did with manning, throw him out there right away and let him grow with the rest of the team.
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Totally agree. I think Sage has promise...and in terms of future picks...it's not always the 1st pick in the draft that proves stellar over the long haul.
 
canadiantexan said:
Tom Brady made good on his first NFL starting oppurtunity.....Sage has had more than one and done almost nothing ( I say almost because he did play well against the Titans this year)

Maques Colston is again another guy who has made good(Proved he belongs) on his first chance not after years of doing nothing. But why are we talking about a reciever in this conversation.

Tony Romo is actually a pretty good argument because he was in a situation like Sage is now. But for every Tony Romo there are a hundred guys who bombed.

and lets not act like a Tom Brady comes along everyday.
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He doesn't have to be "Tom Brady"....

He just needs to play better than David, which shouldn't be too hard to do....

And I don't remember Sage starting any games...
 
Battle Red Bull said:
Sage played more than just the Titans game. JAX has a better defense than the Titans and he moved the ball on them too.
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Actually, he didn't really move the ball against Jax.. 1 of 3 for 9 yards.. Not his fault necessarily. The Texans were in "run the ball" mode when he came in but either way thats a bad example.
 
Keyser Soze said:
And you've seen enough of Sage to make that decision? He wouldn't be the first journeyman that finally found a good home and made people realize what he really had to offer.
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No you are right about that he would not be the first journeyman to do that, but think about those other journeyman and ask yourself did they do that on a team with as little talent as this one or a O-Line that cant protect anyone.
 
canadiantexan said:
No you are right about that he would not be the first journeyman to do that, but think about those other journeyman and ask yourself did they do that on a team with as little talent as this one or a O-Line that cant protect anyone.
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Dallas had an awful line....



until they changed QB's....
 
canadiantexan said:
No you are right about that he would not be the first journeyman to do that, but think about those other journeyman and ask yourself did they do that on a team with as little talent as this one or a O-Line that cant protect anyone.
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It almost seems as if you are trying to make the point that no QB(or back up QB) has the possibility of playing better than David...Sounds like you'd rather stick with DC because you're afraid of dating....
 
canadiantexan said:
Tom Brady made good on his first NFL starting oppurtunity.....Sage has had more than one and done almost nothing ( I say almost because he did play well against the Titans this year)
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If I remember right..... Sage played well enough to earn the spot in Miami.... those guys were just bone-headed...

& watching him play in Miami was the reason Kubiak & Shanahan wanted him.
 
Battle Red Bull said:
We were protecting a lead. Sage did what was required of him.

My point is that he's played well enough to earn the job.:twocents:
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No argument about him doing what he was told to do, I just said that it was a bad example of ""moving the ball down the field".... But, 1/2 of a game that was out of hand and 1 quarter of protecting a lead, sounds a lot like a releif pitcher to me. I have nothing against Sage, he is a quality guy and a solid back-up. I am glad we have him. I have no problems with starting him next year under the premise that he will be the one taking a beating while we re-tool our O-line and groom someone else to take over the reigns eventually.

BUT, he is not the one to take this team to the promised land.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
He doesn't have to be "Tom Brady"....

He just needs to play better than David, which shouldn't be too hard to do....

And I don't remember Sage starting any games...
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You are right in that on most teams he would'nt have to be Tom Brady he could be like Trent Dilfer(Game Manager) on the Ravens a few years back. Unfortunately for us Texans fans we are NOT the Ravens of a few years back on this team he would have to be Tom Brady for us to have a solid year. Having said that I guess he really could'nt do much worse than Carr because we did end up with the worst record in the league last year but I dont think Sage is the awnser. Thats just my opinion...but I also respect yours because I know How sick of Carr some of you are.
 
Texan_Bill said:
That's assuming that the Texans are so far behind that the other team (titans) go into their prevent defense?
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I can almost see that as reasoning for Sage completing passes underneath the coverage...

But how do you explain the line all of a sudden looking better ? were the DE's not coming as hard ? Were the DT's tired ? Whats the exscuse?

Seeing that they pretty much knew the Texans had to pass, you'd think they'd just be teeing off trying to get sacks...In fact you might say that the DE's were rushing harder when Sage was in the game because they knew the Texans would have to pass to come back...

But putting all that aside....

Lets just suppose that you're right...Titans were in prevent...playing loose....

Texans score....ok...no big deal.....

Texans score again.....ummm......

Texans score again........oh sheit....

follow me ?

They may have started off loose, but after the second TD, I'm pretty sure they knew the drill....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
It almost seems as if you are trying to make the point that no QB(or back up QB) has the possibility of playing better than David...Sounds like you'd rather stick with DC because you're afraid of dating....
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Actually I could'nt care less about David Carr the Quaterback I just don't think sage is the awnser. and yes I do think there are guys who would do a better job than David...Hell there are some in college that could probobly do better.
 
canadiantexan said:
You are right in that on most teams he would'nt have to be Tom Brady he could be like Trent Dilfer(Game Manager) on the Ravens a few years back. Unfortunately for us Texans fans we are NOT the Ravens of a few years back on this team he would have to be Tom Brady for us to have a solid year. Having said that I guess he really could'nt do much worse than Carr because we did end up with the worst record in the league last year but I dont think Sage is the awnser. Thats just my opinion...but I also respect yours because I know How sick of Carr some of you are.
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IMHO, I believe Sage is a good QB...

I don't know if he's Tom Brady status, but I do know for a fact David isn't...

We've been dating David for 5 yrs, and although he hasn't cheated on us, he's just not marriage material....

We need to get back into the dating field....
 
canadiantexan said:
Actually I could'nt care less about David Carr the Quaterback I just don't think sage is the awnser. and yes I do think there are guys who would do a better job than David...Hell there are some in college that could probobly do better.
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I'm not sure how you are so sure Sage isn't "the answer"....He has played very well everytime he's played here....

I don't remember him in Miami, but Kubiak went out and got this guy for a reason...he must have seen something in him...

I'm not saying Sage is the answer, but I wouldn't rule it out...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
IMHO, I believe Sage is a good QB...

I don't know if he's Tom Brady status, but I do know for a fact David isn't...

We've been dating David for 5 yrs, and although he hasn't cheated on us, he's just not marriage material....

We need to get back into the dating field....
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I know this is off topic but do you think we should draft one this year? and if we do start dating again can we get the head cheerleader this time and not the homely girl from next girl.
 
canadiantexan said:
I know this is off topic but do you think we should draft one this year? and if we do start dating again can we get the head cheerleader this time and not the homely girl from next girl.
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I think it depends on who's available where...I really don't want a QB with that eight pick, but if Troy Smith fell to the seventh pick of the second rd, personally I'd be all over him....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I can almost see that as reasoning for Sage completing passes underneath the coverage...

But how do you explain the line all of a sudden looking better ? were the DE's not coming as hard ? Were the DT's tired ? Whats the exscuse?

Seeing that they pretty much knew the Texans had to pass, you'd think they'd just be teeing off trying to get sacks...In fact you might say that the DE's were rushing harder when Sage was in the game because they knew the Texans would have to pass to come back...

But putting all that aside....

Lets just suppose that you're right...Titans were in prevent...playing loose....

Texans score....ok...no big deal.....

Texans score again.....ummm......

Texans score again........oh sheit....

follow me ?

They may have started off loose, but after the second TD, I'm pretty sure they knew the drill....
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Having lived through one particular game with a final of 41-38 in OT (without mentioning specifics), you know how that stuff works. Defense plays loose, gives up a TD....(offense feels okay about themselves) Ooooops gives up a second TD...just as you are describing . What happened in that game was that the O got on such a roll, and the D stayed in the prevent too long.

I wonder at what point the Oiler errrrr Titan coaches reminded their D of that particular game.... In other words, when the D decided that it was getting too close for comfort, they went back to their regular D and won the game. Had they never gone into the "Prevent" (you from winning) Defense, the game would have never been that close. I beleive they would have pressured Sage just as much.. Now, how would have Sage handled it, is a completely different discussion.

For those that think Sage's performance in that one game was enough to win a starting QB position, I will remind them of this.. and that is, the 41-38 OT game that was won by a 3rd string QB... Given that performance he earned a starting QB position (at least somewhere) - right???.. What happened to Frank Reich??

See where I am going???
 
i think our defensive backfield is the main problem, the texans wernt able to stop the deep threat; besides that john kitna was able to set a record on them for completions. i just think our defense is out on the field to much and the offense could use some more opportunities. also if the texans can run the ball consistently thoughout the season that would be pretty sweet.:marionaner:
 
Texan_Bill said:
For those that think Sage's performance in that one game was enough to win a starting QB position, I will remind them of this..
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I can't speak for others, but I'm not really a results based guy when it comes to judging talent...

I look at sage and he has good pocket presence, throws a good ball, and he seems to understand taking what the defense gives you....It doesn't take much to look at a guy and see whether or not he has talent...

And no that isn't coming from one game...He looked good all through pre-season too...
 
Texan_Bill said:
For those that think Sage's performance in that one game was enough to win a starting QB position, I will remind them of this.. and that is, the 41-38 OT game that was won by a 3rd string QB... Given that performance he earned a starting QB position (at least somewhere) - right???.. What happened to Frank Reich??

See where I am going???
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You can look at it from many angles, of course. The straight-ahead look at our situation is this: David Carr has had five years to try to realize his potential. He has not.

His circumstances haven't always been ideal, but it's a proven matter he is incapable of rising above the challenges he faces here. My gut instinct is that this is no revelation to coach K nor the rest of the FO.
 
Keyser Soze said:
You can look at it from many angles, of course. The straight-ahead look at our situation is this: David Carr has had five years to try to realize his potential. He has not.

His circumstances haven't always been ideal, but it's a proven matter he is incapable of rising above the challenges he faces here. My gut instinct is that this is no revelation to coach K nor the rest of the FO.
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Not really sure where Carr fits into what I was saying. I was talking about our future... I am saying that Sage isn't it although I like what he brings to the table with respect to being a solid, reliable back-up QB....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I can't speak for others, but I'm not really a results based guy when it comes to judging talent...

I look at sage and he has good pocket presence, throws a good ball, and he seems to understand taking what the defense gives you....It doesn't take much to look at a guy and see whether or not he has talent...

And no that isn't coming from one game...He looked good all through pre-season too...
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Do not misunderstand me. I know where you are coming from and totally respect it... Just a differing view is all...
 
Texan_Bill said:
Not really sure where Carr fits into what I was saying. I was talking about our future...
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Sorry. An edit of my comment before posting ended up making it somewhat hard to follow.

I think Bob's inability to let go of the dream he had for DC is a component of what's holding us back. He may have held on too long. Now we're looking at the very real possibility of starting Sage (or someone like him) while grooming someone else, and I think a fair amount of people feel we're a little late in getting to that point. Starting DC for another year while trying to groom the next guy is not going to sit well with a lot of fans. Essentially, we're staring a "rebuilding year" in the face, when most people feel we've never accomplished building anything in the first place. Having a Bledsoe/'06 Saints situation develop in Houston '07 is rather unlikely.

A bit of a pickle we're in.
 
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