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The Reffs cheating us is getting old

P

PocketAces

Practice Squad
Last week they cost us the Giants game, this week we almost lost the Jags game. I hate to blame the refs but damn, that OD call as an incompletion was total B.S. Oh and when are they going to call holding for Mario, I saw one play when he was literally dragging an o-lineman to the Quarterback, that is getting really old!
 
I think he is referring to the one that hurt Carr's shoulder. I think it was a legit hit... but I tend to find most of the "late hit" calls to be questionable.. so it may have qualified as a penalty for all i know.
 
That review had to be the lamest review I have seen. How they can say he didn't make a football move is beyond comprehension. That ref is either biased, was part of a heretofor undiscovered point shaving scandal or had money on the Jags, is blind as a bat, or extremely incompetent. Since there is no other plausible explanation from one of the above, and all are fireable offenses, I feel he should be immediately fired, and an investigation should begin. And no, I am not joking. Something is extremely fishy.
 
Porky said:
That review had to be the lamest review I have seen. How they can say he didn't make a football move is beyond comprehension. That ref is either biased, was part of a heretofor undiscovered point shaving scandal or had money on the Jags, is blind as a bat, or extremely incompetent. Since there is no other plausible explanation from one of the above, and all are fireable offenses, I feel he should be immediately fired, and an investigation should begin. And no, I am not joking. Something is extremely fishy.
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I'll agree with your extremism on this one. That was a miserable field call and inexcusable review. No way, no how that could be anything but definitive evidence of a catch.
 
The call on Owen Daniels was a bad call, but the refs seemed to screw up calls on both sides. We should really give thanks for this W to Reggie Williams. How many times did he cost the Jags a big play. There was the hold on the long run, and then there was offensive pass interference on the long pass play on one of their late 4th quarter series.
 
Ya, that was a BS call on the no catch. Man, some people should be fired for that one. How could you NOT call that a catch? Good thing the good guys won. Man, it sure is sweet to beat the kittens! Go Texans!
 
Porky said:
That review had to be the lamest review I have seen. How they can say he didn't make a football move is beyond comprehension. That ref is either biased, was part of a heretofor undiscovered point shaving scandal or had money on the Jags, is blind as a bat, or extremely incompetent. Since there is no other plausible explanation from one of the above, and all are fireable offenses, I feel he should be immediately fired, and an investigation should begin. And no, I am not joking. Something is extremely fishy.
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I think instant replay should be abolished. I'm serious.

I see this stuff every single week where an obvious bad call is not overturned despite conclusive video evidence. Not a single week has gone by where I haven't seen an instance of this in some NFL game. This time, it happened against the Texans. Two weeks ago, we saw that happen to the Titans.

I was listening to NFL Sirius Radio last week when they were taking about these bad calls not being overturned. Tim Ryan, one of CBS announcers, after seeing one of these plays, called Art McNally, the chief of the referees. And he said something that made me almost drive off the road. He said that the slow motion replay that you see on TV is NOT what the official sees when he looks under that hood on the sidelines. He said the rule states that he can only look at the "network feed" at regular speed, not the slow motion take that everyones sees on TV.

THAT is instant replay that is designed to fail.

It should be done away with. Firing people wouldn't solve anything.
 
I hope this is one of the calls they discuss on the NFL network this week. Because... it's incomprehensible to me. That was a catch and a fumble out of bounds.
 
jaayteetx said:
Ya, that was a BS call on the no catch. Man, some people should be fired for that one. How could you NOT call that a catch? Good thing the good guys won. Man, it sure is sweet to beat the kittens! Go Texans!
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If Owen Daniels' play was an incomplete pass then Jameel Cook's fumble last week sure as hell should have been too and we'd be sitting at 4-5 right now.
 
[[Gary Kubiak]];497326 said:
I dont know what you call a "FOOTBALL MOVE" no more! :francis: :francis: :francis:
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Well to refs that have never played before they would not know what it is.

But that is a stupid rule, and WAS a stupid call.
 
That review had to be the lamest review I have seen. How they can say he didn't make a football move is beyond comprehension.
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That was too much. It's right there caught on camara for everyone to see.

Do the refs get fined for this crap?

What good are camaras if this is allowed?

Too bad for them (the refs) we won the game anyway. :marionaner:
 
PocketAces said:
Last week they cost us the Giants game, this week we almost lost the Jags game. I hate to blame the refs but damn, that OD call as an incompletion was total B.S. Oh and when are they going to call holding for Mario, I saw one play when he was literally dragging an o-lineman to the Quarterback, that is getting really old!
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yeah remember when they said that td by our te was an incomple....OH WAIT..that was NYG wasnt it- every1 gets good and bad calls...
 
Marcus said:
I think instant replay should be abolished. I'm serious.

I see this stuff every single week where an obvious bad call is not overturned despite conclusive video evidence. Not a single week has gone by where I haven't seen an instance of this in some NFL game. This time, it happened against the Texans. Two weeks ago, we saw that happen to the Titans.
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This is a debate we get a lot in all our sports over here (UK). We have very little video evidence (none at all in soccer) because it disrupts the flow of the game and messes with a team's momentum when everything grinds to a halt for review. IMO, video replay should be used but ONLY to review a goal-line decision. The officials are on the field to make decisions - if you don't trust them to do that then what are they there for?

The NFL is way more technical than it needs to be. All this crap about a 'football move' and the tuck rule and so on is taking away from the game, and for me that should be the defining characteristic of what makes a bad rule change. If someone catches the ball before it hits the ground, they catch the ball - if someone fumbles the football before they hit the ground it's a fumble - if a QB has the ball knocked away before he's passed it, it's a fumble. You don't need all these technicalities suffocating the play - let the refs use a little common sense, make the calls as they see them and get on with the damn game.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Just curious...
How many of you guys have ever reffed a game of any sort? Any sport...but ESPECIALLY one like football?
:hides:
It's not as easy as it looks.

ps--Didn't get to see the game today, nor did I see the particular plays that you guys are referring to. Just a question.
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And you know this how? Are you an NFL referee?

Seriously, some of that crap happened RIGHT IN FRONT OF the referee, and they still didn't call it. How David Carr didn't get the late hit call is beyond me. And, considering on that one completion call dispute the ref spent a scant amount of time reviewing it, only to say that the play stood as called, both of those were absolute B.S.

I hope that Kubiak pays his first fines as a coach, calling out some of the crappy calls that the officials made/didn't make on this game.
 
wolfscar, I think you make a good point - about using common sense. I don't think replay is necessarily a bad thing, but they aren't using any sense when reviewing plays in many cases.

Are there too many rules now? That is, are officials having to concentrate on too many things so that they're unable to make calls on simple things? (This has been debated in soccer with the offside rule, where the ref has to know where the attacker, ball, and last defender are at the same time, which some claim is impossible.) I don't know, but the refereeing does seems to have deteriorated significantly over the past two seasons.

In any cases, there were bad calls going both ways, such as the PF for hitting Lundy(?) out of bounds.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Just curious...
How many of you guys have ever reffed a game of any sort? Any sport...but ESPECIALLY one like football?
:hides:
It's not as easy as it looks.

ps--Didn't get to see the game today, nor did I see the particular plays that you guys are referring to. Just a question.
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I've never ref'ed a football game before but if you see this play you will see why everyone is po'ed. I'm sure ref'ing is a very tough job but so are a lot of other jobs and the people that hold those positions are expected to not only perform to satisfactory but to also perform as an over-achiever. As a ref he should not make stupid mistakes and if reviewed should definitely make the correct call.

on a bright side, they are not only screwing our team, they are doing it across the board. :tease:
 
You guys got screwed by the refs today no doubt, its like they have cheated so much that they have no idea what the truth is regarding a reception. one week the same play is a catch the next it is an incomplete pass. What a bunch of crock. I boycotted season tickets this season because of the horrible state officiating is in. :challenge
 
Great Thread. I've been noticing these horrible calls for a while. And I'll have to say, that sometimes we benefit from bad calls. That being said, I really have noticed 2 things that really concern me. 1. The reffs are influenced way too much. Examples of this are trying to get kudos from the home crowd or if it's a sideline type call, they are trying to get kudos from that particular bench. 2. I think that they are especially harsh on teams with losing records. It's almost like they enter the game convincing themselves that they are going to have to throw a bunch of flags. I'm glad we won this game so it doesn't just seem as if I'm blaming the refs for a loss, but there were several calls that were just horrible. And this garbage about it being a tough job, so what? They get paid to do a job, either they can do it or they can't. And if they can't they need to be doing something else....From what I understand, most of them have day jobs and they should work really hard on keeping those. :stirpot:
 
Rex King said:
wolfscar, I think you make a good point - about using common sense. I don't think replay is necessarily a bad thing, but they aren't using any sense when reviewing plays in many cases.

Are there too many rules now? That is, are officials having to concentrate on too many things so that they're unable to make calls on simple things? (This has been debated in soccer with the offside rule, where the ref has to know where the attacker, ball, and last defender are at the same time, which some claim is impossible.) I don't know, but the refereeing does seems to have deteriorated significantly over the past two seasons.

In any cases, there were bad calls going both ways, such as the PF for hitting Lundy(?) out of bounds.
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That's always been my take on things - if you get a 50/50 call that goes against you this quarter, chances are you'll get one that goes for you later in the game. And I've seen four or five calls reviewed recently that came back with a clearly wrong decision, so instant replay isn't foolproof anyway.

I wish that sports would learn from each other a little more - they all do some things well and other things badly. Please don't think I was holding soccer up as a good example, by the way - it's so badly officiated right now that it's hard for me to watch at all any more. I just don't want that to happen with the NFL and at the moment it's heading in the wrong direction - not just with the video replays for a ten yard catch in midfield, but with soft penalty calls too. You don't need to call unnecesary roughness when a WR gets pushed a little when he's one step out of bounds. These guys are big boys - if the defender ripped off his helmet and punched him in the face, fair enough, but pushing someone a bit is not any kind of roughness.

American football is the best sport in the world IMHO - I just want it to stay that way.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Oh yeah...as far as the "other jobs" that people are expected to perform in...how many of those jobs are seen by 50 million people? And how many of those jobs involve HUNDREDS of millions of dollars? How many of those jobs involves shutting down the entire factory/store/office just because someone doesn't agree with your performance? Let's get real guys...this isn't a job like any other. Everytime you pull your flag, you've GOT to make sure what you saw IS what you really saw! If that flag hits the ground, you're gonna alienate 1/2 of the people in the stands and gonna have to listen to crap from one of the two sidelines for AT LEAST another few plays, if not many games to come (except me that is...I don't listen to any coaches crap).

And as stated before...if you think it's that easy, just pay your dues and go talk w/Tommy Moore at the Houston Chapter...he'd be THRILLED to have you on board. Then let me know what you're feelings are on this subject.
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You just helped my point out. First I want to say that ref'ing in the pros must be one tough arse job putting up with the shiat they have to put up with.
Since their job is seen by millions and deals with millions of dollars then they should not be blowing calls that are clearly the other way. like todays DOwens catch.

as far as you being a ref, it doesn't pay well right? you have to have another 'real' job right? I couldn't imagine doing that, where is any free time for hunting and family? that must take some major dedication to be able to work fulltime for your family then keep up with all the rules and go ref games and be on your toes.. kudos to you and those that can do that, and do it right.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Someone mentioned earlier that the reviews the refs see are in real-time...does anyone know if this is true or not?

That makes a BIG DIFFERENCE, imo.

We can ALL see what's happening in slo-mo, but if you've gotta have "conclusive evidence" to overturn a call and all you're seeing is "real-time vids" then it makes it LESS obvious.
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I thought they could slow the video down and even got still images (like for toes out of sideline calls and such). I could be wrong and probably am though.
:tease:
 
Someone mentioned earlier that the reviews the refs see are in real-time...does anyone know if this is true or not?
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The older you get the less sanapsys effect your mind has in othr words you register less. That is the problem with officials they have no idea what is happening in real time because they are old timers.

You have got to love the ambiguosly based foundation they have to make calls with. How vague can you get? A Football move? how many years have we been using the 2 fee in bound rule, since when is running 2 steps with the ball not a football move.
 
On a related note, I think it's crazy that major sports don't pay their officials enough to take away their need to get a second job. These guys control the flow of the game, they ensure that it's played in the right spirit - basically, they are absolutely integral to the game. The NFL, the IRB, the NBA, the NHL, FIFA etc etc - so much money goes through these sports they could pay a core of referees enough of a retainer to make them full time without batting an eyelid - surely. They could spend the offseason working college sports or working with the governing body of their respective sports to improve the game as a whole.

Just my :twocents:
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Interesting that you NEVER hear refs talk about the "million dollar babies" that drop, fumble throw INT's. NEVER! You don't hear the refs talking about how someone with such incredible talent could drop such an easy pass, or make such a boneheaded throw or a coach make such a STUPID CALL when it's so obvious to everyone in the stadium what they SHOULD be doing. Ironic.

I see your :stirpot: ...and raise you two :stirpot: :stirpot: . lol
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And those player are held accountable by their coaches, front office, and the fans. When a reff blows it, he should be held accountable...period. They get no free pass with me, you may coddle them all you want. I call your raise
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Just curious...
How many of you guys have ever reffed a game of any sort? Any sport...but ESPECIALLY one like football?
:hides:
It's not as easy as it looks.

ps--Didn't get to see the game today, nor did I see the particular plays that you guys are referring to. Just a question.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it's tough as you mentioned in this thread, and kudos to you for doing it. What has me frustrated is that replay was supposed to clean up the bad calls that will inevitibly happen during live play. I could maybe see how the sideline ref maybe didn't think it was a catch, but on replay it was extremely clear that it was. That's what the system was designed for. It doesn't take a rocket scientest to see that Daniels caught the ball and made multiple "football moves". Out of 1000 normal people with no bias, 999 would call that a catch. It really has nothing to do with having to learn a thick rulebook, or anything of the sort. So, my take is that if these guys can't get it right even after reviewing plays, then what is the point. Just live with the bad calls, and let's get on with it, because it's doubly frustrating when something like this occurs.
 
I want to go back to the Carr shoulder bruising hit. I did not know Carr had been hit until the play was over. He was rolling on the ground and I was like what? In the replay the ball is clearly gone, and we have been flagged for less. No the arms were not extended on the tackler, which is why Mario got in trouble last week. I just wish it was more consistent from week to week.
 
i wouldnt even say the refs were cheating us. the jags got cheated alot as well....a few pass interference no-calls on us.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
And they ARE held accountable in MANY cases. The question is: "Does their call CLEARLY violate a rule of the game?" We saw an entire replay CREW that got suspended for one week with the Oklahoma game a few weeks back.

In most instances, the "accountability" occurs behind closed doors and out of the view of the media or any fans. Which is the way that it should be, in any case, IMO.

Not sure how me defending the office of an official is deemed as "coddling?" All I've said is that it's a tough job and you guys should try it for yourselves. I agree with you...if a ref blows a call, the MOST IMPORTANT THING (IMO) is that the crew comes together and GETS IT RIGHT! But believe me when I say that I am in the minority among officials, with this philosophy.

Call...show me what you've got. J/K.
If we keep talking in poker lingo, SWT is gonna weigh in and scold us.
lol
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Hey look, there's no way you are going to get me to sit here and say that it's an easy job. My point is this, most games are decided on 3 or 4 big plays per game. The margin of error is small. Mistakes will be made and that's a part of the game that I think everyone understands, but there was no excuse for some of the calls and no calls today. Not a personal shot at you, just my observation from today.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
I've got NO PROBLEM with the "Old Timers" thing....in fact...I AGREE 102%!!! I called several games this year with an old fart that couldn't see a hold if it happened right in front of him...and many times...it DID!

As far as the "rules" situation...I hope that you guys realize that it's the COACHES(high school) and OWNERS(pros) that make and approve rules changes in MANY CASES!

Refs aren't about making life MORE difficult on themselves.
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And when the owners did nothing about the officiating but give them more powers to ambiguously judge the play rather than keep it black and white, that is when I said enough was enough.
 
Marcus said:
I think instant replay should be abolished. I'm serious.

I see this stuff every single week where an obvious bad call is not overturned despite conclusive video evidence. Not a single week has gone by where I haven't seen an instance of this in some NFL game. This time, it happened against the Texans. Two weeks ago, we saw that happen to the Titans.

I was listening to NFL Sirius Radio last week when they were taking about these bad calls not being overturned. Tim Ryan, one of CBS announcers, after seeing one of these plays, called Art McNally, the chief of the referees. And he said something that made me almost drive off the road. He said that the slow motion replay that you see on TV is NOT what the official sees when he looks under that hood on the sidelines. He said the rule states that he can only look at the "network feed" at regular speed, not the slow motion take that everyones sees on TV.

THAT is instant replay that is designed to fail.

It should be done away with. Firing people wouldn't solve anything.
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The fact that there is an obvious bad call is reason enough to have replay. If you overturn 1 bad call which changes the outcome of the game, replay is worth it.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
And they ARE held accountable in MANY cases. The question is: "Does their call CLEARLY violate a rule of the game?" We saw an entire replay CREW that got suspended for one week with the Oklahoma game a few weeks back.

In most instances, the "accountability" occurs behind closed doors and out of the view of the media or any fans. Which is the way that it should be, in any case, IMO.

Not sure how me defending the office of an official is deemed as "coddling?" All I've said is that it's a tough job and you guys should try it for yourselves. I agree with you...if a ref blows a call, the MOST IMPORTANT THING (IMO) is that the crew comes together and GETS IT RIGHT! But believe me when I say that I am in the minority among officials, with this philosophy.

Call...show me what you've got. J/K.
If we keep talking in poker lingo, SWT is gonna weigh in and scold us.
lol
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The Ok game cost the team a win and pretty much screwed the school out of 4 million bucks in a bcs game. The got suspended for one game, heck they should have been fired and never did another game as long as they live.
 
The refs were horrible today. Practically every call against you guys was BS and shouldn't have been called and the majority of calls against us were the same as well. They probably only got about 20% of the calls on the entire day right...definitely not one of the better crews.
 
There was one play where Demeco came in on the same blitz but he got tackled. It was the play where Garrard made that good desperation pass.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
I couldn't find what I was looking for on nfl.com as to an explanation of the implementation of the Instant Replay...but here's an interesting link with a seemingly exhaustive explanation of the rule and use of the Instant Replay.

Not sure AT ALL how factual it is...but if it's accurate, then it's easy to see how a referee could miss something in the IR, IMO.
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"The referee will make all determinations, regardless of time of game, after reviewing videos on a sideline monitor."
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But it doesn't specify what kind of videos that referee can review. Here is the question that I want answered, and I'm having a hell of a time finding it. But it's pretty simple one.

When a play is challenged, does the sideline replay official view the very same videos as shown to the TV audience?

I'm not asking for anyone's assumption or opinion as to what they think is the answer. I'm looking for a source or link that definately answers it one way or another. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
I just did not see how they screwed that up. OD caught the ball, and then took 3 steps with it? Its scarier had bad officiating can be in ALL sports. I mean, that was not even a tight play.
 
Marcus said:
But it doesn't specify what kind of videos that referee can review. Here is the question that I want answered, and I'm having a hell of a time finding it. But it's pretty simple one.

When a play is challenged, does the sideline replay official view the very same videos as shown to the TV audience?

I'm not asking for anyone's assumption or opinion as to what they think is the answer. I'm looking for a source or link that definately answers it one way or another. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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someone earlier said that it was "network feed" so I'm (as much as I hate to do it) assuming that it IS the exact same the audience is watching since the game is being broadcast on that exact network....but like I said Im just assuming according to a previous poster.
 
As for the refs and their calls....the no catch on OD was HORRIBLE, the late hit personal foul no call on the jags after the invalid fair catch was also HORRIBLE seeing as how he was 2 yards out of bounds when he took the hit, and WE ALL KNOW THAT ROOKIES GET NO LOVE so all of the no holding calls on Mario are getting tremendously old...if it werent for them he'd have about 8 sacks and counting...and thats being cautious....I really think it should be more.
 
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