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NC Make Or Break Decision

DT- Carter and DE- Anderson would be a coup in RD1. Toss in ILB, Jack Campbell (Iowa) along with S, JL Skinner (Boise State) and the Texans defense would look wholly different in 2023.

My concerns with both Young and Stroud, would their touted traits translate to a team like the Texans? They can look spectacular with Ohio State and Alabama b/c of the sheer talent they're surrounded by, but when that talent isn't abundant at the NFL level are they still the same special QB's? I don't see either QB as game changers for the Texans. Also, I'd hate to throw another RD1 pick at a supposed "Franchise QB" who the Texans are ill-prepared to groom.
I agree that I don’t think either of these guys are really gonna be our franchise QB. But the Bama offense around Young is not good. It’s him and Gibbs and that’s it. Stroud however has an absolutely dominant oline and the best WR’s in the country. Stroud would implode here or anywhere without a top 10 oline in my opinion.

We shouldn’t go QB but if we do it should be Young
 
DT- Carter and DE- Anderson would be a coup in RD1. Toss in ILB, Jack Campbell (Iowa) along with S, JL Skinner (Boise State) and the Texans defense would look wholly different in 2023.

My concerns with both Young and Stroud, would their touted traits translate to a team like the Texans? They can look spectacular with Ohio State and Alabama b/c of the sheer talent they're surrounded by, but when that talent isn't abundant at the NFL level are they still the same special QB's? I don't see either QB as game changers for the Texans. Also, I'd hate to throw another RD1 pick at a supposed "Franchise QB" who the Texans are ill-prepared to groom.

Yep the last sentence in your post is what worries me most.

Otherwise draft Young and Johnston then trade ack into the 1st rd for Washington and draft a center at the top of the 3rd and trade Cooks for a 3rd it's possible you could end up with both Stromberg and Patterson in the 3rd. Another iol I like as an og is A illa from TCU. Then hope a guy like Charbonnet or TCU Miller falls to the top of the 4th. Weapons like those would give Young a great chance to succeed. Would the defense still suck, yes it would, although I would add a DT cheaply and spend good money on a LB in FA. Then draft to fix the defense in 2024. You should have high picks again so this can be accomplished.

Not what I would do, but there's a case to be made for going this direction and one things for sure the offense would be much .ore dangerous and exciting than it is this year.

Imagine this offense

Tunsil/Green/Patterson/Cann/
Howard, with Avilla and Heck as your backups.

Young/Mills

Pierce/Miller only because I don't think Charbonnet falls to the top of the 4th

Washington/Akins/Howard/Jordan


Johnston/Collins/Metchie/Moore / Camp.

The offense would look so much better and the defense adding a DT and LB in FA would too. That's a very young and talented team that would be headed in the right direction with a boatload of picks in the 2024 draft to finish the rebuild of the defense. Only thing I would worry about is keeping the tiny Young healthy. Which is why I would go with Carter and have the same exact strategy except get either Mayer or Williams in 2024.
 
Yep the last sentence in your post is what worries me most.

Otherwise draft Young and Johnston then trade ack into the 1st rd for Washington and draft a center at the top of the 3rd and trade Cooks for a 3rd it's possible you could end up with both Stromberg and Patterson in the 3rd. Another iol I like as an og is A illa from TCU. Then hope a guy like Charbonnet or TCU Miller falls to the top of the 4th. Weapons like those would give Young a great chance to succeed. Would the defense still suck, yes it would, although I would add a DT cheaply and spend good money on a LB in FA. Then draft to fix the defense in 2024. You should have high picks again so this can be accomplished.

Not what I would do, but there's a case to be made for going this direction and one things for sure the offense would be much .ore dangerous and exciting than it is this year.

Imagine this offense

Tunsil/Green/Patterson/Cann/
Howard, with Avilla and Heck as your backups.

Young/Mills

Pierce/Miller only because I don't think Charbonnet falls to the top of the 4th

Washington/Akins/Howard/Jordan


Johnston/Collins/Metchie/Moore / Camp.

The offense would look so much better and the defense adding a DT and LB in FA would too. That's a very young and talented team that would be headed in the right direction with a boatload of picks in the 2024 draft to finish the rebuild of the defense. Only thing I would worry about is keeping the tiny Young healthy. Which is why I would go with Carter and have the same exact strategy except get either Mayer or Williams in 2024.
The land mine to avoid is Stroud imo. I don’t think he’s a lock to bust but I’m not at all sold on his ability to handle not being behind that Ohio State oline.
 
I also think Detroit is a prime candidate for us to trade down with if they are sold on a QB but win too many games to get one. They have a second first round pick that they may be willing to give up if we give them one of our thirds (idk I’m just spitballing). Would be very worth it to have to watch Mills another year if we got 3 firsts this year. Use those firsts to build up the defense and grab a WR if you like one of them.

Then looking forward you could go into 2024 looking for a QB. Say the 2023 season goes better than expected and you have too high of a pick for Maye or Williams. You may be able to trade up next year (sacrifice the Browns 2024 first and not feel bad since you had 3 firsts in 2023) for one of those guys.

Or maybe your 2023 season goes as badly as expected and you don’t even have to trade up you just grab BPA with the Browns pick.

So yeah I think trading down with Detroit this year is absolutely going to be our best play assuming the draft order stays how it is right now.
 
The land mine to avoid is Stroud imo. I don’t think he’s a lock to bust but I’m not at all sold on his ability to handle not being behind that Ohio State oline.
Being without that bevy if stand out WR's is going to hurt him also
 
Yep the last sentence in your post is what worries me most.

Otherwise draft Young and Johnston then trade ack into the 1st rd for Washington and draft a center at the top of the 3rd and trade Cooks for a 3rd it's possible you could end up with both Stromberg and Patterson in the 3rd. Another iol I like as an og is A illa from TCU. Then hope a guy like Charbonnet or TCU Miller falls to the top of the 4th. Weapons like those would give Young a great chance to succeed. Would the defense still suck, yes it would, although I would add a DT cheaply and spend good money on a LB in FA. Then draft to fix the defense in 2024. You should have high picks again so this can be accomplished.

Not what I would do, but there's a case to be made for going this direction and one things for sure the offense would be much .ore dangerous and exciting than it is this year.

Imagine this offense

Tunsil/Green/Patterson/Cann/
Howard, with Avilla and Heck as your backups.

Young/Mills

Pierce/Miller only because I don't think Charbonnet falls to the top of the 4th

Washington/Akins/Howard/Jordan


Johnston/Collins/Metchie/Moore / Camp.

The offense would look so much better and the defense adding a DT and LB in FA would too. That's a very young and talented team that would be headed in the right direction with a boatload of picks in the 2024 draft to finish the rebuild of the defense. Only thing I would worry about is keeping the tiny Young healthy. Which is why I would go with Carter and have the same exact strategy except get either Mayer or Williams in 2024.

What if they flipped the script and nailed the defensive side of the ball?

DE: Jerry Hughes
DT: Kurt Hinish
DT: Jalen Carter, Georgia (RD1)
DE: Ali Gaye, LSU (RD4)

WLB: Christian Harris
MLB: Jack Campbell, Iowa (RD3)
SLB: Will Anderson, Alabama (RD1)

LCB: Steven Nelson
SS: JL Skinner, Boise State (RD2)
FS: Jalen Pitre
RCB: Derek Stingley Jr

NB: Tavierre Thomas

How might this defense look in 2023?

Please review the player picks to get a feel as to how this defense may improve.
 
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What if they flipped the script and nailed the defensive side of the ball?

DE: Jerry Hughes
DT: Kurt Hinish
DT: Jalen Carter, Georgia (RD1)
DE: Ali Gaye, LSU (RD4)

WLB: Christian Harris
MLB: Jack Campbell, Iowa (RD3)
SLB: Will Anderson, Alabama (RD1)

LCB: Steven Nelson
SS: JL Skinner, Boise State (RD2)
FS: Jalen Pitre
RCB: Derek Stingley Jr

NB: Tavierre Thomas

How might this defense look in 2023?

Please review the player picks to get a feel as to how this defense may improve.
The defense would look great and you would still lose a lot of games because the offense would struggle to score 20 points per game
 
The defense would look great and you would still lose a lot of games because the offense would struggle to score 20 points per game

I’d be giving the offense (draft) to a now (2024) available Sean Payton….along with the necessary cap space to make this unit in his vision. If the 2024 pick falls inside the top 5 picks, then that’s not a bad thing as long as a new and much improved defense gets the 2023 season to gel. Really would help set the table for 2024.
 
I’d be giving the offense (draft) to a now (2024) available Sean Payton….along with the necessary cap space to make this unit in his vision. If the 2024 pick falls inside the top 5 picks, then that’s not a bad thing as long as a new and much improved defense gets the 2023 season to gel. Really would help set the table for 2024.
Agreed and there's merit in going this way.

I'm just thinking about having weapons in place when the new QB is drafted.
 
Agreed and there's merit in going this way.

I'm just thinking about having weapons in place when the new QB is drafted.
Get some weapons now so they don't have as steep of learning curve with the new QB. It seems to take more time with most WR's and TE's to reach potential. A year seasoning would do them good. And there is no way Payton will ever coach the Texans as long as McNairs are primary owners
 
Do u really understand how jacked up our cap was with the contracts BoB and co had us saddled with? You couldn’t just wipe that slate clean in 1 offseason man….
It could have & should have been done very differently targeting 2023 as the year to be active in FA.

But I get it. I was one saying he thought he could save the DW relationship & wanted a team “closer” to winning.

but after he realized he didn’t have a QB he should have had a fire sale. But it appears he thought Mills was something he’s yet shown to be we have this abomination of a rebuild
& still wound up having a whole lot of dead money hitting the cap.
& if I were trying to make excuses I’d be right there with you. But he created most of the 2023 dead money & didn’t have to.
 
I'm telling you Janice and Easterby wanted McCown. you can choose to believe this or not. One thing is for sure Lovie wasn't a Caserio hire.
Try to understand, I agree with everything you said here.

I believe that shaped the whole search process. McCown was it from day 1. The guys they selected to interview had no chance of getting the job.

After they realized they couldn’t make McCown work Caserio should have told the McNairs he tried it their way scrap the “process” & start over with real candidates. Not just pick the one left.
 
It could have & should have been done very differently targeting 2023 as the year to be active in FA.

But I get it. I was one saying he thought he could save the DW relationship & wanted a team “closer” to winning.

but after he realized he didn’t have a QB he should have had a fire sale. But it appears he thought Mills was something he’s yet shown to be we have this abomination of a rebuild

& if I were trying to make excuses I’d be right there with you. But he created most of the 2023 dead money & didn’t have to.

Bottom line? Are they going to have enough cap space to sign 4 or 5 mid tier FA's even if Caserio has to slightly overpay, because it's very doubtful that any top tier FA's will be coming to Kirby. I'm talking about the Rashaan Evans/Kentavious Street/Kazir White/Da'Ron Payne/Hassan Ridgeway/Jarran Reed type FA's.
 
Try to understand, I agree with everything you said here.

I believe that shaped the whole search process. McCown was it from day 1. The guys they selected to interview had no chance of getting the job.

After they realized they couldn’t make McCown work Caserio should have told the McNairs he tried it their way scrap the “process” & start over with real candidates. Not just pick the one left.

He probably said Gannon is my guy and Cal said I'm going with Lovie.
 
He probably said Gannon is my guy and Cal said I'm going with Lovie.
You're not understanding what I'm saying. Flores was his guy. McCown was Janice's guy. The other guys on the list were tokens. Nobody wanted them. By the time Gannon's name came out as "the guy" there was no one else. He was the last guy left on a bogus list.
 
Any two picks among pick 3 thru 6 is more draft capital value than the 1st pick. Which isn't to say someone won't make a deal like that.
A draft pick is only as valuable as what someone else is willing to pay for it. It depends on if Detroit wants a QB and is concerned they won't get one of the top 2. It might be cool to have two top 6 picks and another top 15 pick as opposed to the #1 and a top 15.

This, of course, is wild speculation. No idea how the picks will shake out.
 
Detroit could end up with 2 top 6 picks because they have the Rams pick too. I was wondering about a trade opportunity if Houston picks 1st and Detroit has two picks among pick 3-6.
Any two picks among pick 3 thru 6 is more draft capital value than the 1st pick. Which isn't to say someone won't make a deal like that.
A draft pick is only as valuable as what someone else is willing to pay for it. It depends on if Detroit wants a QB and is concerned they won't get one of the top 2. It might be cool to have two top 6 picks and another top 15 pick as opposed to the #1 and a top 15.

This, of course, is wild speculation. No idea how the picks will shake out.
Good discussion but wrong thread and we need to move to the draft thread rather than Kenyon green.
 
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If he turns out to be any good I wonder how that 2nd contract negotiations would go.

I wonder if you could “force” him to play out that 5th year option if you decide to exercise it.

I wonder if you’d even make it to year 4 without threatening a holdout
I would think each team management would believe that they would have an excellent relationship with their star quarterback in his fourth or 5th Year and not anticipate difficulties. The bad taste we have in our mouth with Watson was not over negotiating his new contract but his demand to be traded after he received it plus the sex stuff.
 
I would think each team management would believe that they would have an excellent relationship with their star quarterback in his fourth or 5th Year and not anticipate difficulties. The bad taste we have in our mouth with Watson was not over negotiating his new contract but his demand to be traded after he received it plus the sex stuff.
I get that, but Watson got everything he wanted. Rather Watson’s agent got everything he wanted. If I were he I’d push the limit on everything knowing I can’t lose against the Texans
 
If he was trying to win, Davis Mills wouldn't have been given the job without competition
Davis Mills is Pep's guy, Pep talked Nick into drafting Mills and giving up 2 draft picks to move up to draft Collins. That's why there was no competition. This is Pep's offense. Where it gets convoluted is Lovie promised his buddy George Warhop a 1st RD pick to take the OL coach job. Not sure how that set with Pep but explains how the Texans drafted an underachieving athletic 34" arm OG. The funny thing is looking back, Culley was right in wanting to keep Tim Kelly and Caserio and Lovie were wrong going with Pep.
 
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You're not understanding what I'm saying. Flores was his guy. McCown was Janice's guy. The other guys on the list were tokens. Nobody wanted them. By the time Gannon's name came out as "the guy" there was no one else. He was the last guy left on a bogus list.
Correct, that's why Culley was FIRED only a day or so after Flores was FIRED. Flores was Caserio's man only after McDaniels wouldn't return Nick's calls. McCown was an Easterby McNair choice. Gannon only entered the picture after the Texans had 2 strikes and a foul ball. After Caserio struck out on Gannon, Cal came in and relieved Caserio.
 
Correct, that's why Culley was FIRED only a day or so after Flores was FIRED. Flores was Caserio's man only after McDaniels wouldn't return Nick's calls. McCown was an Easterby McNair choice. Gannon only entered the picture after the Texans had 2 strikes and a foul ball. After Caserio struck out on Gannon, Cal came in and relieved Caserio.

Culley was fired after he refused to fire Kelly. This is known.
 
Culley was fired after he refused to fire Kelly. This is known.
That was the convenient excuse, people who don't drink the Kool-Aid know this. They know Culley would have likely never said this if it had not been previously discussed. Even if he did he could've come back with we've decided to take the offense in another direction. It really was not a fireable offense. The gullible and naive will swallow the convenient excuse, hook, line, and sinker. It is amazing how the Kool-Aid revises history.
 
That was the convenient excuse, people who don't drink the Kool-Aid know this. They know Culley would have likely never said this if it had not been previously discussed. Even if he did he could've come back with we've decided to take the offense in another direction. It really was not a fireable offense. The gullible and naive will swallow the convenient excuse, hook, line, and sinker. It is amazing how the Kool-Aid revises history.

The Chicken Little Pecker Brigade loves their imagination! Keep pecking the ground. The sky is always falling.

Culley hasn’t refuted the story. Not a convenient excuse. Facts.

Insubordination is grounds for termination.
 
Pretty much that is exactly how it happened. When Gannon insisted on hiring his own asst coaches he was told he was no longer under consideration for the Texan's head coach. The next day Cal announced the Texans hired Lovie as the new HC.
 
Pretty much that is exactly how it happened. When Gannon insisted on hiring his own asst coaches he was told he was no longer under consideration for the Texan's head coach. The next day Cal announced the Texans hired Lovie as the new HC.
Caserio called Gannon and told him Lovie was getting the job because of Cal and Gannon withdrew his name from consideration.
 
Caserio called Gannon and told him Lovie was getting the job because of Cal and Gannon withdrew his name from consideration.
Gannon did not withdraw his name, he was told he was no longer being considered. Even after reports that Texans were very impressed with Gannon and Gannon was thought to be the favorite for the job. When Gannon balked at not being able to hire his own coaches and final say on 53 man roster is when Gannon was told he was no longer being considered. With Flores turning into a dumpster fire, and McCown making absolutely no sense, the Texans were back at square one. Cal and Janice had finally had enough of this circus for the second year in a row. The next day Cal announced Lovie as the new HC, Lovie hired all of his coaches and has the final say on the 3 man roster. The difference between Nick and Cal. The truth of the matter is if Flores had not been fired David Culley might still be the Texans HC.
 
Gannon did not withdraw his name, he was told he was no longer being considered. Even after reports that Texans were very impressed with Gannon and Gannon was thought to be the favorite for the job. When Gannon balked at not being able to hire his own coaches and final say on 53 man roster is when Gannon was told he was no longer being considered. With Flores turning into a dumpster fire, and McCown making absolutely no sense, the Texans were back at square one. Cal and Janice had finally had enough of this circus for the second year in a row. The next day Cal announced Lovie as the new HC, Lovie hired all of his coaches and has the final say on the 3 man roster. The difference between Nick and Cal. The truth of the matter is if Flores had not been fired David Culley might still be the Texans HC.
He was the favorite until Cal told Caserio he was hiring Lovie.
 
He was the favorite until Cal told Caserio he was hiring Lovie.
He was the favorite until he said he wanted to hire his own coaches and that's when Caserio said he was no longer being considered. When Caserio told Cal they were back at square one, Cal told Caserio he was hiring Lovie and there would be some changes to Nick's job description and responsibilities.
 
He was the favorite until he said he wanted to hire his own coaches and that's when Caserio said he was no longer being considered. When Caserio told Cal they were back at square one, Cal told Caserio he was hiring Lovie and there would be some changes to Nick's job description and responsibilities.

Well, I can see this conversation is a waste of time.

On another note, I was at the Casino today and didn't get to see the game. Give me your thoughts, and dont mention Caserio in them. I really do want everybody's thoughts on what happened. Did they get runover, from what I've read Mills must've played like crap. I noticed that Pierce hardly ran the ball at all looking at the boxscore. So I've got a feeling that the gameplan was terrible at best.

Yep, I'm all in on not drafting a QB and adding talent. As long as Lovie/Pep/Mills are here I think the Texans probably have pick #1 or pick #2 in the 2024 draft. That would put Williams or Maye in play to be the Texans QB of the future. Yep, give me that over drafting a QB next year.
 
Well, I can see this conversation is a waste of time.

On another note, I was at the Casino today and didn't get to see the game. Give me your thoughts, and dont mention Caserio in them. I really do want everybody's thoughts on what happened. Did they get runover, from what I've read Mills must've played like crap. I noticed that Pierce hardly ran the ball at all looking at the boxscore. So I've got a feeling that the gameplan was terrible at best.

Yep, I'm all in on not drafting a QB and adding talent. As long as Lovie/Pep/Mills are here I think the Texans probably have pick #1 or pick #2 in the 2024 draft. That would put Williams or Maye in play to be the Texans QB of the future. Yep, give me that over drafting a QB next year.
It was the worst game they played all year. Green is obviously injured, he was manhandled most of the game, embarrassingly so. Mills was disappointing, started off the game with a pick-six. When you take a look at the box score you'll understand. I want Maye or Williams but I don't want Lovie, Pep and Caserio anywhere close to them. They would be the reason the Texans drafted one of them.
 
It was the worst game they played all year. Green is obviously injured, he was manhandled most of the game, embarrassingly so. Mills was disappointing, started off the game with a pick-six. When you take a look at the box score you'll understand. I want Maye or Williams but I don't want Lovie, Pep and Caserio anywhere close to them. They would be the reason the Texans drafted one of them.

Thanks
 
So the reports of other teams besides Cleveland being interested in DeShaun Watson who has the same agent were all false? I get the agent thing and do not want the Texans to deal with him either but Stroud is still a pretty good candidate for the first pick in the draft.

If you want to be stuck in mediocrity then you are correct.
 
The Chicken Little Pecker Brigade loves their imagination! Keep pecking the ground. The sky is always falling.

Culley hasn’t refuted the story. Not a convenient excuse. Facts.

Insubordination is grounds for termination.
Why should Culley fire someone he didn't hire? That's why I said Caserio is a coward. He sticks his head in the sand instead of standing tall on ish
 
Why should Culley fire someone he didn't hire? That's why I said Caserio is a coward. He sticks his head in the sand instead of standing tall on ish

Why?

His boss told him to and it is in Culley’s job description.

I don’t know if it was intentional but it worked out for Culley. Say no. Get fired. Take the money and live a good life his remaining years.
 
Well, I can see this conversation is a waste of time.

On another note, I was at the Casino today and didn't get to see the game. Give me your thoughts, and dont mention Caserio in them. I really do want everybody's thoughts on what happened. Did they get runover, from what I've read Mills must've played like crap. I noticed that Pierce hardly ran the ball at all looking at the boxscore. So I've got a feeling that the gameplan was terrible at best.

Yep, I'm all in on not drafting a QB and adding talent. As long as Lovie/Pep/Mills are here I think the Texans probably have pick #1 or pick #2 in the 2024 draft. That would put Williams or Maye in play to be the Texans QB of the future. Yep, give me that over drafting a QB next year.
Mills was terrible under pressure. We've seen somebody play with Julian Davenport at tackle under a jail break and make plays, but he can't read defenses 🤣 On the pick six which resembled the play last week that took forever to get to the hash marks, he had set in his mind from snap where he was throwing the ball.
 
Mills was terrible under pressure. We've seen somebody play with Julian Davenport at tackle under a jail break and make plays, but he can't read defenses 🤣 On the pick six which resembled the play last week that took forever to get to the hash marks, he had set in his mind from snap where he was throwing the ball.
I didn't get to watch the game, but I did see the play and he was staring down Cooks.
 
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