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Brandin Cooks to the Texans

steelbtexan said:
Cooks will probably be brought back on a cheaper deal with more guaranteed $$$$. I dont believe the Stills trade rumors and think he will be brought back next yr. They probably will draft a guy late this yr to step into the WR4 role in 2021 and also draft another WR late next yr.

Agreed about the franchise needing cheap labor. My thoughts are that franchises are built through a combination of draft picks 60% trades 15% FA 25%. Even though the Texans dont really play in FA.

The Texans 1st/2nd rd picks this yr are Tunsil/Cooks. The extra 2nd moving up 17 spots/DJ/2022 4th is the Nuk trade. Hopefully they land a differencemaker on defense and DJ stays healthy. Do you think not having 1st/2nd rd picks in 2021 is going to destroy the franchise? I dont, why? because it didn't destroy the franchise in 2018.
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The pattern of short-term decision making is going to put the franchise in a hole.

You cannot consistently win by bringing in high-priced talent at the expense of cheaper, younger talent. You can get away with this if you don't have a frachise QB or if that player is still on their rookie contract. Once we have to pay Watson these short-term decisions are going to bite us hard, especially if we continue to trade away our draft capital.
 
bah007 said:
The pattern of short-term decision making is going to put the franchise in a hole.

You cannot consistently win by bringing in high-priced talent at the expense of cheaper, younger talent. You can get away with this if you don't have a frachise QB or if that player is still on their rookie contract. Once we have to pay Watson these short-term decisions are going to bite us hard, especially if we continue to trade away our draft capital.
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Once DW4's got his new contract the Texans will have their full complement of draft picks again. Like I said, they really aren't even missing a draft pick this yr and basically changed out what Nuk wanted in a longterm deal for what they're going to pay Tunsil. If you remove Nuks salary plus the 10 mil you're paying Tunsil that's a net nuetrel minus the 8 mil they are paying.
 
steelbtexan said:
There's a huge difference in a guy that wants to renegotiate every yr and wants 5 yrs 100 mil with 50-60 being guaranteed (Nuk) and a guy getting 1 yr 8 mil. (Suh)
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How about, what's the difference in willing to pay for talent vs the McNair's being cheap a$$es?

It seems like when they don't sign a player YOU want, then it's the McNairs being cheap. When they let a player go to save money, all of a sudden it becomes a smart move.
 
steelbtexan said:
How did you get that I was talking bad about Nuk in that post?

I even said in that post I didn't blame him for looking out for himself.





He wasn't disgruntled. He just wanted Nuk gone after his constantly wanting to renegotiate his contract/blow up at practice etc....

Cant say I blame him.
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You continue to bring up that mans personal life that’s how. You read something about his baby mamas coming to practice. Therefore you think that’s a reason to parade it in a negative way every time we’re on this particular subject.
 
bah007 said:
For this season the offense won't be as predictable. Until we have to rebuild the entire thing again next year because we have no long-term plan.

They can get out of DJ's contract next year. They can also get out of Duke's contract whenever they want. We could also walk away from Cooks after this season. But we will do none of those things. Because getting out of a contract that OB traded for would essentially be him admitting that he made a mistake in acquiring it, which we know from his past he cannot will himself to do.

Championship franchises are built through the draft under the guidance of some underlying long-term plan. Young, cheap contracts are a valuable asset. That is what draft picks acquire. This franchise under the direction of OB has shown a disdain for young, cheap contracts. They much prefer to use their draft capital to acquire older, more expensive players. When you build a roster that way you eventually run out of money, which means you will have to deplete your roster of talent to get back under the cap. That is where we are heading.

And OB's short tenure has already set the pattern. There is no plan. He will continue to trade draft picks for contracts on a year-to-year basis. So while a 2nd round pick for this franchise may as well be a gold mine.
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My thoughts exactly. This method of building a roster isn't sustainable and will leave a huge mess for the next GM.
 
steelbtexan said:
Once DW4's got his new contract the Texans will have their full complement of draft picks again. Like I said, they really aren't even missing a draft pick this yr and basically changed out what Nuk wanted in a longterm deal for what they're going to pay Tunsil. If you remove Nuks salary plus the 10 mil you're paying Tunsil that's a net nuetrel minus the 8 mil they are paying.
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Yes, we will finally have picks again that year. Except we will have holes all over the roster because we haven't been drafting and won't have any young talent on cheap contracts. So we will have a few highly priced veterans, no cap room, and no depth because we are going to have to let everyone else walk to make this plan fit under the cap.

And that is best case scenario. Worst case is OB continues this trend of trading the future for the present every single year to plug the holes with stopgaps to save his job.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I guess you’re in the locker room huh
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We both opinions they differ.

Point is neither one of us are in the lockeroom so we dont know.

What we do know is there was a reason BOB didn't want Nuk on the team. BTW, BOB is the boss so that should tell you something. Whether you like it or not there's no doubt who's in charge.
 
Texansballer74 said:
You continue to bring up that mans personal life that’s how. You read something about his baby mamas coming to practice. Therefore you think that’s a reason to parade it in a negative way every time we’re on this particular subject.
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Obviously you cant read,

I said I dont blame him for looking out for himself.
 
steelbtexan said:
We both opinions they differ.

Point is neither one of us are in the lockeroom so we dont know.

What we do know is there was a reason BOB didn't want Nuk on the team. BTW, BOB is the boss so that should tell you something. Whether you like it or not there's no doubt who's in charge.
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I personally don’t think it was that BOB didn’t want Hopkins on the team, I think it was more of BOB saying "oh hey look, the grass is greener on the other side. I can get a RB who had a good season in 2016, a 2nd round draft pick and save a little money". I think it was more BOB’s odd logic getting the better of him, than him not wanting Hopkins on the team.
 
dream_team said:
How about, what's the difference in willing to pay for talent vs the McNair's being cheap a$$es?

It seems like when they don't sign a player YOU want, then it's the McNairs being cheap. When they let a player go to save money, all of a sudden it becomes a smart move.
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There isn't a difference to person who continuously takes both sides of a debate. It's part schtick, part troll and part contrarian. As a result, there are no differences.

That's the only way you can endorse taking a chance on players with drug issues, bad characters and multiple suspensions while having no problem trading a player who is always available, but he has babies out of wedlock.

It's how you can be willing to give O'Brien 5, 6, 7 or even 8 years while wanting to trade Watson after 3 years. You can say the McNairs are cheap when they don't sign someone, but ignore when they overspend.
 
RGV82 said:
I personally don’t think it was that BOB didn’t want Hopkins on the team, I think it was more of BOB saying "oh hey look, the grass is greener on the other side. I can get a RB who had a good season in 2016, a 2nd round draft pick and save a little money". I think it was more BOB’s odd logic getting the better of him, than him not wanting Hopkins on the team.
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Or BOB overvalues the locker room, practice, and what he wants out of his stars in terms of leadership. I judge things by outcomes, BOB likes his process that he hopes get to the outcomes, culture, TEAM guy, ... I do agree some processes are more likely to get you an outcome, but use your head too
 
bah007 said:
Yes, we will finally have picks again that year. Except we will have holes all over the roster because we haven't been drafting and won't have any young talent on cheap contracts. So we will have a few highly priced veterans, no cap room, and no depth because we are going to have to let everyone else walk to make this plan fit under the cap.

And that is best case scenario. Worst case is OB continues this trend of trading the future for the present every single year to plug the holes with stopgaps to save his job.
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How many holes do you think they will have in 2022?

If this year they hit on say, 3 draft picks this yr? They also should some cap room available when WFV is gone/Fulton/DJ etc... that's approx 27 mil off of the books if my math is correct. I want to keep and re-sign Stills so the WR corps will still be in good shape. Stills/Cobb/Cooks.

In the 2021 draft They will have their 3rd and probably a 3rd rd comp pick in addition to 2 4ths. They should be able to add atleast 2 starter level guys, even if they have to trade up to get the starters.

So in the next 2 yrs I expect atleast 4 starters out of the draft and probably 1 or 2 more out of FA. How many holes do you think they are going to have?

I do think you can find a RB in the draft to replace DJ and WR depth later in the draft.
 
dream_team said:
How about, what's the difference in willing to pay for talent vs the McNair's being cheap a$$es?

It seems like when they don't sign a player YOU want, then it's the McNairs being cheap. When they let a player go to save money, all of a sudden it becomes a smart move.
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Nope, this is mainly about them being cheapa$$es. But I happen to be in the minority who likes the skill position players better now than before the offseason started. Speed kills and I'm looking forward to a much more diversified offense. DW4 is going to have to find the open guys and there will be guys open.
 
RGV82 said:
I personally don’t think it was that BOB didn’t want Hopkins on the team, I think it was more of BOB saying "oh hey look, the grass is greener on the other side. I can get a RB who had a good season in 2016, a 2nd round draft pick and save a little money". I think it was more BOB’s odd logic getting the better of him, than him not wanting Hopkins on the team.
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I hope you're right and I cant wait to see how things turn out.
 
TheKDog said:
Good point.

Historically, it's increased by 8% , which would add $15. So $70 million
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My research indicates much higher. NFL resolved CBA quickly as they expect new highs from networks with voracious appetites for product. There has been significant merging and taking over of companies by the main net works which remain unexpectedly behind-the-scenes due to the covid-19 fear. ABC, ESPN are owned by Disney which is considering more streaming and some games on it's Lifetime and A&E channels. Also Disney owns Fox Sports network programming overseas.
CBS, NBC and Comcast in the race, with Directv trying to hang on to competitors jerseys. I would not be surprised to see the Texans cap space closer to 90 million in 2021. That is why Watson has been so patient awaiting his contract. Even laremy tunsil has played it cool so far as he knows he's playing for right at 10 million regardless so he isn't hurting. Can you imagine the dollars thrown into advertising when companies start to recover from covid-19? I imagine it will set new records. Players gonna get more of that pie.
 
Rich Schmidt said:
Or BOB overvalues the locker room, practice, and what he wants out of his stars in terms of leadership. I judge things by outcomes, BOB likes his process that he hopes get to the outcomes, culture, TEAM guy, ... I do agree some processes are more likely to get you an outcome, but use your head too
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When during the 6 seasons Hopkins played for O'Brien did this issue with leadership and being a team guy become a problem? Did he ever bench Hopkins to send a message. Or did Hopkins continue to play, produce, and help O'Brien's career winning %? I'm using my head, which tells me that Hopkins internal criticism of O'Brien's offense and playcalling became too much for thin skinned Billy Oh to handle. This wasn't about the locker room, practice, culture, or the T_E_A_M. It was about Billy Oh's fragile ego.
steelbtexan said:
In the 2021 draft They will have their 3rd and probably a 3rd rd comp pick in addition to 2 4ths.
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if that were true, it would be a pathetic amount of draft capital (2 years running). unfortunately, there will not be comp picks in any round coming the Texans way. A team has to lose more free agents than sign free agents in order to gain compensatory picks. The Texans signed more than lost. Do the math.
 
Lucky said:
When during the 6 seasons Hopkins played for O'Brien did this issue with leadership and being a team guy become a problem? Did he ever bench Hopkins to send a message. Or did Hopkins continue to play, produce, and help O'Brien's career winning %? I'm using my head, which tells me that Hopkins internal criticism of O'Brien's offense and playcalling became too much for thin skinned Billy Oh to handle. This wasn't about the locker room, practice, culture, or the T_E_A_M. It was about Billy Oh's fragile ego.

if that were true, it would be a pathetic amount of draft capital (2 years running). unfortunately, there will not be comp picks in any round coming the Texans way. A team has to lose more free agents than sign free agents in order to gain compensatory picks. The Texans signed more than lost. Do the math.
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There was a blowup at practice and BOB looked to move Nuk after that. Talk to your boss like that and you will get fired too. Sorry that's just the way the world works.

I would think since Reader was a top tier FA that signing the Murray/Watkins of world wouldn't hurt the comp pick.
 
steelbtexan said:
There was a blowup at practice and BOB looked to move Nuk after that. Talk to your boss like that and you will get fired too. Sorry that's just the way the world works.
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If I was a top producer and my boss was a mediocre manager, it would not end well for the manager. More likely, the owner would tell both of us to stop bickering and get back to work.
steelbtexan said:
I would think since Reader was a top tier FA that signing the Murray/Watkins of world wouldn't hurt the comp pick.
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Not how it works. Cobbs+Murray+Watkins+Jernigan - Reader = No comp picks.
 
DocBar said:
If he was so good, why is he still on the street?
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That's a good question

He would be the best edge on the team. Probably has to do with his past mental issues. He will get signed after the draft by somebody. No comp pick
 
Lucky said:
If I was a top producer and my boss was a mediocre manager, it would not end well for the manager. More likely, the owner would tell both of us to stop bickering and get back to work.

Not how it works. Cobbs+Murray+Watkins+Jernigan - Reader = No comp picks.
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Not if the owner was happy with the manager making him money hand over first.

BOB'S going to be here for a few years regardless of whether you like it or not.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new offense this year. There will be people open.

Atleast if this fails there will be accountability.
 
steelbtexan said:
There was a blowup at practice and BOB looked to move Nuk after that. Talk to your boss like that and you will get fired too. Sorry that's just the way the world works.

I would think since Reader was a top tier FA that signing the Murray/Watkins of world wouldn't hurt the comp pick.
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If players were cut because they had a blowup with a coach... the team would eventually run out of players.

 
dream_team said:
If players were cut because they had a blowup with a coach... the team would eventually run out of players.

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It wasn't just the run in.

It was the constant wanting to renegotiate, not practicing. Not having as good a season as past seasons wanting to be the highest paid wr in the NFLetc....

BOB's betting he won't be worth his contract in yrs 4/5 of the deal.
 
thunderkyss said:
Look up. That’s the point, going over your head.

structure contract where guaranteed money is paid out by the time you think player will be useless, Cooks contract, DJ’s contract...
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Got it

I just dont think Nuk is worth that much. A great player but not worth 20 mil per.
 
Texansballer74 said:
My thing is why even bring that up? Why didn’t you bring up his mother who is blind?

And this is not the first you brought up his baby mamas.

Oh I read pretty darn good.
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It’s an unnecessary cheap shot. Don't worry. By the time Hopkins plays his first game for the Cardinals, the excuse for trading him will be he brought guns in the locker room or one of the baby mamas was related to O’Brien.
 
Earl34 said:
It’s an unnecessary cheap shot. Don't worry. By the time Hopkins plays his first game for the Cardinals, the excuse for trading him will be he brought guns in the locker room or one of the baby mamas was related to O’Brien.
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The excuse will be it's only OBrien's first year as GM.

Give him a year with a full complement of picks, only then we can judge OBrien
 
Earl34 said:
It’s an unnecessary cheap shot. Don't worry. By the time Hopkins plays his first game for the Cardinals, the excuse for trading him will be he brought guns in the locker room or one of the baby mamas was related to O’Brien.
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It wasn't meant to be a shot.

It was meant to explain why I dont blame Nuk for getting as much $$$$ as he can even if that thankfully is in Glendale.
 
Rich Schmidt said:
Tunsil is already on the books for $10m, so don't add $20m add $10m for him. Secondly, many players live off signing bonus year 1, say they get $35m signing bonus year 1, and $200k salary for year 1, team spreads hit out over 5 year deal and cap is $7.2m, while player has lots of cash flow ($35.2m). So there is money to make most of this happen. I do sense it will force choices like between Cunningham and Fuller. Our WR core is expensive, thus I do think we should draft a WR somewhere this year and work to renegotiate Cooks somewhere this season if he plays well (His GTD money is up so he should be interested)
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Stupid actions generally yield stupid results......thank you OB.
 
steelbtexan said:
It wasn't meant to be a shot.

It was meant to explain why I dont blame Nuk for getting as much $$$$ as he can even if that thankfully is in Glendale.
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You don't need a reason to blame or an excuse for a player getting as much $$$$ as he can. Every player in the history of sports in the prime of their career gets as much $$$$ as they can. Looking into their "baby mama" situation is irrelevant.
 
RGV82 said:
You don't need a reason to blame or an excuse for a player getting as much $$$$ as he can. Every player in the history of sports in the prime of their career gets as much $$$$ as they can. Looking into their "baby mama" situation is irrelevant.
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It's not irrelevant if you need the money to support your kids. Alimony/check ld support is one of the most costly expenses for pro athletes.

Ask Shawn Kemp, his baby momma's child support payments forced him into bankruptcy.
 
steelbtexan said:
It's not irrelevant if you need the money to support your kids. Alimony/check ld support is one of the most costly expenses for pro athletes.

Ask Shawn Kemp, his baby momma's child support payments forced him into bankruptcy.
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My point is, I agree with lots of your opinions and respect your points of view, but bringing in players personal reasons for money is irrelevant. Every athlete wants as much money as he can get, lots of them have familial issues, etc. I do not think its something that needs to be discussed. Even if Hopkins did not have "baby momma" issues, I am sure he would still be searching for the biggest contract possible.
 
steelbtexan said:
And child support payments.

Although drugs could have been the reason for his poor choices.
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He also had a major gambling problem to. Having children did not cause him to go bankrupt. He just didn’t invest his money probably. Just like Allen Iverson, Steve Frances, and several others.
 
RGV82 said:
My point is, I agree with lots of your opinions and respect your points of view, but bringing in players personal reasons for money is irrelevant. Every athlete wants as much money as he can get, lots of them have familial issues, etc. I do not think its something that needs to be discussed. Even if Hopkins did not have "baby momma" issues, I am sure he would still be searching for the biggest contract possible.
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And BOB have him the opportunity to achieve that goal in Glendale. On the way out the door Nuk felt the need to trash the man that gave him the opportunity to achieve his goal of getting paid and make it much more difficult for his friend , DW4 to achieve his goals. #Classless but not surprising considering the source.
 
steelbtexan said:
And BOB have him the opportunity to achieve that goal in Glendale. On the way out the door Nuk felt the need to trash the man that gave him the opportunity to achieve his goal of getting paid and make it much more difficult for his friend , DW4 to achieve his goals. #Classless but not surprising considering the source.
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Your point? Discuss classless behavior then. Not sure how that ties into his family and children.
 
steelbtexan said:
It's not irrelevant if you need the money to support your kids. Alimony/check ld support is one of the most costly expenses for pro athletes.

Ask Shawn Kemp, his baby momma's child support payments forced him into bankruptcy.
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Sigh - how many kids does Hopkins have? As far as I can find ONE daughter, that's all I can find information on - so if he has more he does an excellent job of keeping it out of the media or seemingly letting it interfere with his professional life.

Shawn Kemp has 7 children I think - so that's quite a bit of difference.

It's OK to just let it be about the money, I'm OK with taking a hard line on letting players not come back to the table after just signing a new deal - however, a good GM deals with those players every day and finds solutions that work for the player and the team. Mr. Emotions has a hard time with being challenged.

But yeah let's just keep throwing out that Hop has so many kids and 'baby mamma's' it's going to bankrupt him.
 
RGV82 said:
Who cares? Every player in their prime and is good enough to be selfish usually is. Get over it. It’s sports.
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Great response.

Nuk made DW4'S goals harder to achieve, so if winning a championship is the goal you should care.

But you're right in that this is just entertainment and this off-season has been very entertaining, so I really don't care and find all of the vitriol over this trade highly amusing.
 
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