You mean Watson showing up too?
I predict Watson is going to have a really good game this week. (Not as good as last week) The Chiefs are missing both of their DT's one of which is their best defensive player Chris Jones.
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You mean Watson showing up too?
I predict Watson is going to have a really good game this week. (Not as good as last week) The Chiefs are missing both of their DT's one of which is their best defensive player Chris Jones.
So people are stupid enough to let the media help form their opinions instead of forming their own opinions by using their own 2 eyes?
No pretty sure we want obrien to not bring back his version of the ep
Personally I just care that he sucks at basically every aspect of coaching.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Why don't you word it, BoB's offense isn't very good and it should be changed.
The narrative that the system isn't working because of the QB is what people are getting upset about. It's not the QB, but the system and the way it's designed. Clearly they changed it up and things worked, for EVERYONE on the offense.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Because he doesn't like Watson. In six years we have seen quarterbacks being shuffled in and out of this system at a record pace. And ole Steel only points out 1.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Correct. Seth Payne said this morning on air that he's talked with a "couple" of guys internally and they said that OBrien has made a "philosophical" change in how he will be designing the offense moving forward. Not sure what that means exactly, but it only justifies the "this offense sucks" crowd.
There has never been a version of a Bill OBrien offense that was worthwhile. Not here, Not in Penn St, and not in NE since he is the ONLY assistant that went through there that never got a ring. It is what it is, guys supporting a Bill OBrien EP offense (whatever that means) are really just going down with the ship.
I dont care. Win games. Look like a professional team. Call it the My Little Cupcake Offense if you want, as long as it wins games and utilizes the strengths of the team and adapts to ever changing conditions and gives the team and fans something to be inspired by, Im in. I dont care if its Billy Butts Aka Billy Buttcrack or some other new coach. I DONT CARE. Just win baby. Just win.
The BOB/Watson marriage isn't a good one because BOB is asking Watson to do to much at the LOS.
It only took 6 years go fix an obvious flaw in his system (assuming he sticks with the change).
Maybe in another 6 years he can change his philosophy on timeouts, challenge flags, personnel, salary cap, trades and draft picks.
You should really stop throwing the "stupid" word around
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Im with you man, but it becomes a Sisyphus type chore knowing that no matter how much you beat that drum, no matter how much light you try to shed, how badly you want change, and how it could actually be for the betterment of the team .. that at the top of that hill, that ball will roll all the way down again because Bill Obrien is here for the immediate future. I know it sucks, but Im convinced he's starting to hear the chatter and feeling that seat grow warmer and thus why he's finally softening his perception on "his offense".
In the end if the man continues to squander timeouts, possessions, challenges and it leads to losses then that would be the most obvious issue to apply corrective action to with a move, but it just doesnt appear to be imminent. There are tons of super smart Texan fans and the hope would be that with social media and the many fan sites that if there is enough 'noise' then eventually it would get brought up in that clubhouse.
That is until next week if he goes back to the same boring, vanilla offense that doesnt work and gets Watson killed and just looks pathetic. Then I'll just throw my hands up in the air and start drinking again.
So let me get this straight: his offense sucks, but his QB just had a perfect QB rating, one of the best performances of his young career, and even had the pro football HoF request his cleats for being the only QB in NFL history to pass for at least 400 yards and five touchdowns with five-or-fewer incompletions.
Okey dokey.
(this is not a secret sign. . .hehe)
Far be it from me to defend Billy O to the pitchfork crowd (I'm not a big fan, either). I just find the narrative amusing.
p.s. Watson threw for five touchdowns and no interceptions for the third time in his career on Sunday. He’s done so in just 28 games, which makes him by far the fastest to reach that accomplishment. Who did he beat? Peyton Manning (99 games).
In all three games, Billy O was his coach. . .
Okey dokey.
(this is not a secret sign. . .hehe)Far be it from me to defend Billy O to the pitchfork crowd (I'm not a big fan, either). I just find the narrative amusing.
p.s. Watson threw for five touchdowns and no interceptions for the third time in his career on Sunday. He’s done so in just 28 games, which makes him by far the fastest to reach that accomplishment. Who did he beat? Peyton Manning (99 games).
In all three games, Billy O was his coach. . .
So let me get this straight: his offense sucks, but his QB just had a perfect QB rating, one of the best performances of his young career, and even had the pro football HoF request his cleats for being the only QB in NFL history to pass for at least 400 yards and five touchdowns with five-or-fewer incompletions.
Okey dokey.
Far be it from me to defend Billy O to the pitchfork crowd (I'm not a big fan, either). I just find the narrative amusing.
p.s. Watson threw for five touchdowns and no interceptions for the third time in his career on Sunday. He’s done so in just 28 games, which makes him by far the fastest to reach that accomplishment. Who did he beat? Peyton Manning (99 games).
In all three games, Billy O was his coach. . .
Watson has been good, but the offense overall has not consistently been good
But yet to hear some tell it (you for example) the defense has been all that has saved OB the last 6 years
I misread your post to say the defense has not been good
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Weak division? Hmmm. Patriots have been in a weak division for almost 2 decades. This division is competitive. The team in division seem to beat a lot of teams outside their division. Just because the teams are bunched up, doesn't make it weak.
banned1976
sleeper mode
What are your eyes telling you? What it looks like to me, your eyes are telling you O’Brien is a near flawless coach, it’s the players fault when things go wrong. Most of us were critical of both Watson and O’Brien after the Carolina loss.
OB called a hell of a game this past weekend and the offense executed it well. Do you have any constructive criticisms of OB? Can you at least concede he has had problems with managing the clock over his tenure here? Baby steps now...
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
So let me get this straight: his offense sucks, but his QB just had a perfect QB rating, one of the best performances of his young career, and even had the pro football HoF request his cleats for being the only QB in NFL history to pass for at least 400 yards and five touchdowns with five-or-fewer incompletions.
Okey dokey.
Far be it from me to defend Billy O to the pitchfork crowd (I'm not a big fan, either). I just find the narrative amusing.
p.s. Watson threw for five touchdowns and no interceptions for the third time in his career on Sunday. He’s done so in just 28 games, which makes him by far the fastest to reach that accomplishment. Who did he beat? Peyton Manning (99 games).
In all three games, Billy O was his coach. . .
And all 3 games were against some craptastic defenses.
Look, the talent is there to do some great things, but even with DW4, this "Billy O" offense has been one of the most mind numbingly bland and inconsistent his entire time here.
400 yards, 5 TD this week, while 1 week before it's 160 yards, 0 TD. Week before that, 351 and 3, before that, 159 and 0.
Hell, Fitzy had a 6 TD game under OB. Good things can happen, even in a OB offense. It's just that it happens so few and far between. Those three 5 TD games have happened in 3 separate seasons.
And the biggest thing still is, OB can't beat the better teams. 3 wins this year are against teams with a combined 5-10 record. The 2 losses, 7-3. The needle is still not moving on that.
BINGO! That inconsistency can be attributed to an error prone QB like Fitz or a young, inexperienced QB like Watson. However, you have to include the common factor in this inconsistency that is O'Brien and his interpretation of the EP offense. It has absolutely nothing to do with a QB being too stupid or unable to run the offense or needing to implement the Clemson scheme.
It's all about how O'Brien uses the EP offense to attack defenses and make in game adjustments. For example,
- If your young QB is struggling with his reads against a particular defense. You simplify his reads by calling more rollout plays and cutting the field in half
- If your OTs are struggling with a pass rusher, you run more two TE sets to help with the blocking.
- If your OL is struggling with the pass rush, you run two TE sets or two RBs or single back formations to assist with the blocking
- If your running game is struggling, you adjust and pass to setup the running game
- If your passing game is struggling, you adjust and run to setup pass with play action
- If your young QB is holding on to the ball too long, you run shorter routes
- If your young QB is holding on to the ball too long, you call 3 step drop pass play
- If your young QB is not seeing the field, you send less receivers out in the patterns
- If your young QB is struggling with the OL calls, put it on the OL to help him. Even the great Peyton Manning did not make OL calls.
- If your young QB is struggling you integrate some of his college plays into the EP scheme.
That's what makes a great OC. You can have bestest offense on a whiteboard. However, during the game, it's how fast can you adjust to what being thrown at you in real time. How fast, can you get your young QB settled. How are you setting up your plays from quarter to quarter or even possession to possession. That's why I got so annoyed by the opinion that the offensive struggle is based solely on the QB not being smart enough to handle the EP system. It's like the Run and Shoot offense. If you know it struggles in the red zone, get a TE on the roster. But once you have that TE on the roster, it doesn't mean you only bring a TE in on obvious red zone situations. You have to make sure you get on film that your offense is just as unpredictable with a TE as when you are going 4 wide. This isn't rocket science.
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I've said many times he needs to simplify the offense for Watson.
His TO usage and Challenges need alot of work.
No matter how many times I point out these faults, there will still be more post like yours put out there.
Help me understand why you think "simplified" as opposed to O'Brien simply doing what Andy Reid did, re-design the offense around what his QB does well...?
They're the same thing.
Funny thing is tables were turned last year. I remember plenty of times arguing BO'b should do some of these things to help Watson, to help the OL. You kept saying we didn't have the talent to stack WRs, run crossing routes or pick plays, run RB screens, move the pocket, pitch the ball to the RBs, etc... all the things we see Reid doing for Mahomes, or Shanahan for Garoppolo.
I mean, yeah we have more talent on the OL, maybe that's the reason. Still can't run a RB screen though.
More motion before the snap. Big tool in uncovering what the defense really wants to do.
Watson does miss some stuff pre-snap in protection calls …. but that's not the problem here.
Its the reads being overly "complex" , for the lack of a better word , they don't flow well , it seems so random rather than fluid. Add the route combinations and the unwavering "My system works even when it doesn't" and this is what you get.
That last one is the biggest problem. He wont change. Just like in the Panthers game , they took away the deep routes with a two deep shell and he refused to do something different. Head Meet Wall.
They also got steady pressure on Watson - What did OB do to combat that pressure ? …. Run plays right into that two deep shell.
Watson's got his issues but his biggest issue is Bill O'Brien.
@steelbtexan statement of simplify the offense is …. an oversimplification of what he really means.
Its more about the play design than simplifying anything.
The reads don't change a whole lot , identify man / zone - what's the safety(s) doing , what are the corners leveraging ? Watson knows what to do in each combination of those "reads". They are pretty elementary for the most part and basically the same no matter what "offense" you run. The ques don't vary a whole hell of a lot.
What does vary is how you choose to attack those ques - that's what needs to change.
That's what I've been thinking for most of the last six years. But Osweiler... nah, I'm not going there. Too soon.
But Watson has had a lot of control of the offense from day one. Calling protection, identifying the Mike, hot routes... he can audible but most of the time it looks like he's changing routes. Look at the hand signals he makes to the WRs.
Back to Osweiler. I'm probably the only one to think so, but I think we were three plays away from the AFC Championship game. Yes, beating the Patriots.
Several bad throws in there, but the offense was sound. I can't help but seeing Watson in that game. Everything else could have gone exactly the way it did except those bad throws.
Right now I don't think Watson calls the offense as well as Osweiler or even Mallett did. He's a better QB, better athlete. But when he can make the calls at the line as well as they did.... he'll be the new Brady.
TxnsJuggernaut1
Veteran
I missed the last two Texans games because where I live if the Saints or Cowboys are playing at the same time on one of the channels our Texans are also on I do not get to see them.
With that said I have to ask a question. Has Charles Omenihu gotten much burn the last two games? I think he could be a nice pass rushing addition.
With that said I have to ask a question. Has Charles Omenihu gotten much burn the last two games? I think he could be a nice pass rushing addition.
TxnsJuggernaut1
Veteran
I missed the last two Texans games because where I live if the Saints or Cowboys are playing at the same time on one of the channels our Texans are also on I do not get to see them.
With that said I have to ask a question. Has Charles Omenihu gotten much burn the last two games? I think he could be a nice pass rushing addition.
With that said I have to ask a question. Has Charles Omenihu gotten much burn the last two games? I think he could be a nice pass rushing addition.
Texas Jake
Rookie
I think a big part of the difference is Watson was taking what the defense was giving him instead of trying to force the homerun play. I think this was more about Watson taking the next step in his evolution as an NFL QB. Of course the improved play calling didn't hurt. But how much of the "improved play calling" was actually better plays vs better execution by the QB and the offense.
Watson made the OL calls and missed several blitzes which along with not going to his hot reads or changing the play/WR routes at the LOS is what made the offense so stagnant. You're right though if Watson is doing these things then that means there's too much on his plate and BOB is asking him to do things he's not comfortable with. At this point I'm hoping Watson looks more to the middle of the field and BOB shortens some of the route combos to help Watson while he's learning.
Scooter
Funky
I think many are backwards. A more complex system is fine - preferred even. The problem over the past several years is O'Brien trying to simplify the system into what HE is comfortable with and overcompensating for his own failings. We've spent more time diagramming mixed pass protection schemes than a functional offense ... an offensive line of hall-of-famers doesn't give you 5 seconds in the pocket to guess which receiver won their route. In the Pat's system a wide receiver on a 9 or deep post/curl is common. It's common because he's a "it'll happen eventually or test the defense" receiver as the tightends, backs and underneath routes continue to draw coverage and force the defense. Much like Kubiak/Shanahan's system, calling similar plays multiple times waiting on the defense to switch - and the big play opens up. Instead O'Brien has continually dialed back everyone else to focus on those outside routes, either through max protect or spread, when they are NOT the ideal throws. Only made possible through our talent and lack there-of on defense.
We went from a very detailed west-coast zone offense that made things simple for the quarterback, to an offense that asks the QB and WR to be superhuman. The Patriots run possibly the most QB friendly system I've seen, so many quick options and multiple options in the quarterback's line of vision - again, no successful Belichick coaches. Against the Falcons we ran the basic pairing routes that you could get from a 15 year old Madden player (no, head coach doesn't get any kudos for that level of genius). Thanks to the talent that Rick Smith provided in Watson, Hopkins and Fuller - that simple pairing made the pass game a whole hell of a lot easier than "I'll try not to die in max protect waiting on your 20yd curl".
We went from a very detailed west-coast zone offense that made things simple for the quarterback, to an offense that asks the QB and WR to be superhuman. The Patriots run possibly the most QB friendly system I've seen, so many quick options and multiple options in the quarterback's line of vision - again, no successful Belichick coaches. Against the Falcons we ran the basic pairing routes that you could get from a 15 year old Madden player (no, head coach doesn't get any kudos for that level of genius). Thanks to the talent that Rick Smith provided in Watson, Hopkins and Fuller - that simple pairing made the pass game a whole hell of a lot easier than "I'll try not to die in max protect waiting on your 20yd curl".
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Or how much of it was going against a defense that just isn’t very good? Against 2 much better defenses in Carolina and J-ville, 1 offensive TD in each game, both on short fields, and Watson doesn’t have over 160 yards in either game.
Gotta take games like last week with a grain of salt and see how it translates over the course of a season and against better competition.
They didn't have the talent on the OL last yr to be successful. This yr they have the talent, but with 3 new OL/2 new RB's/A new TE/A new WR they're still a work in progress. Put that together with Watson trying to figure out where the blitz is coming from and delivering an accurate throw and we are where we are. (Inconsistent) I would like to see Watson under center more and think until he learns to step up into the pocket and throw accurately when pressure is all around him he will remain inconsistent. His 1st instinct is to run to his right when facing pressure. The good thing is while scrambling he keeps his eyes down field and you can make plays this way, but you cant do it consistently. IMHO He still also needs to be more consistent with his footwork and this will help improve his over all accuracy.
I cant wait to see how much Watson and the rest of the offense has come together as a unit by the Pats game.
He’s been getting playing time. He’s looked pretty good for a rookie, he uses his hands/arm length really well.
Texas Jake
Rookie
I don't dismiss this point either. That why I am waiting to see what happens in the coming games and not confident this game will be a recurring theme. I am hoping what we saw was improvement and not just the result of ineptness on the other team.
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Pats actually run a very complex system that requires Brady, the TEs and the WRs to change things up on the fly and even the same call at times meaning an entirely different play than before depending on how the defense is lined up. There have been several articles posted over in the, I think its the Falcons thread, EP system debate where NFL players and even former Pats have said it is very hard to learn. The system the Pats use may look QB friendly but that's because Brady makes it look so easy and its the system he is very comfortable with because it basically gives him full control from the line. That's not saying Brady is smarter than Watson but more that Brady strikes me as the kind of guy that has a plan A then a B, C and D depending on what happens. Watson more the kind that says "Ok guys here is what we are doing, if it all goes south just try and get free and I'll play Benny Hill with the defense in the mean time."
frethack
Rookie
Excellent post. Exactly agree with you. Watson will learn, but it will take time and experience.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Omenihu was inactive in week 1, played ~40% snaps in week 2 (including 1 sack), then suffered an MCL early in week 3 but played through it and missed week 4. Last Sunday, he returned increasing his work load to ~50% of the rotation. Besides the aforementioned, he has also contributed on STs. As Otisbean noted, he is showing promise.
Option routes are quite common in the NFL; it's just a matter of how often and how detailed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...versions-sight-adjustments-hot-routes-and-the
I still remember the pick-six that Matt Schaub threw on 2013.
He was throwing a ten-yard out route while Hopkins "incorrectly" ran the deep fly route (and never knew where the ball was.)
The LCB was dropping bac deep (and had depth over Hopkins.)
To me, Hopkins needed to make the sight adjustment and changed his route to an Out route.
This way, he would have the most separation from the CB.
No.
one implies an inability to learn
the other points out a willingness to adapt.
not at all the same thing
After a loss, the Texans' QB talked about how the opposing team was successful by playing a lot of two-high defense to take away plays down the field. Guess who was the QB? It was Brock Osweiler. So obviously, if you are an above average defense, playing Cover 4 will shut down O'Brien's version of the EP offense. Does any of this sound familiar?
Osweiler said one of the reasons why the Patriots were so successful against him is that they played a lot of two-high defense to take away plays down the field.
"They were very aware of our receiving threats, and they weren't going to let us throw the ball down the field," Osweiler said.
I think any time an offense struggles with developing a rhythm, struggles with scoring points, I think the first thing you have to examine is the quarterback," Osweiler said. "I'll take the blame for this one.
https://www.espn.com/blog/houston-t...rock-osweiler-ill-take-the-blame-for-this-one
Texansballer74
The Marine
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Disagree
TxnsJuggernaut1
Veteran
Thanks
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From someone who has not been very O'Brien-friendly:
Brian T. SmithVerified account@ChronBrianSmith 36m36 minutes ago
That W is a reminder why Texans have stayed with O’Brien. When it’s been good, easy to picture bigger things happening down the road.
Brian T. SmithVerified account@ChronBrianSmith 36m36 minutes ago
That W is a reminder why Texans have stayed with O’Brien. When it’s been good, easy to picture bigger things happening down the road.
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