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State of the O-line

Max said:
I think something that's missing in the discussion of starting Howard at G and moving him to T is there's an underlying assumption that after acclimating to G (if he's able to) that he'll be able to transition to T successfully. It's an unknown. It means that we'll be going into a draft looking for a G to take Howards spot still unsure if he's able to handle T duties. If he's not able to transition to T, it means that we should have drafted a T instead of a G. And we're not even sure if we need a G because Rankin may be able to play the position but Howard & Scharping are getting the majority of those looks. We have an ongoing problem of not knowing what players are capable of because they're not getting the looks they need at the right position and unsure of who to draft because we don't even know what our needs are. Get the guys at the position they're supposed to play in from the beginning. Cross train centers and guards. Not guards and tackles.
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Ok. That's 1 very drab version of how it could go.

Koolaid version: Howard can transition over to tackle, Rankin slides into the LG position & Scharping stays at RG & we go into the draft possibly only looking for a RT to replace Henderson.


Super Koolaid version:koolaid:: Howard can transition over to tackle, Rankin slides in the LG position, Scharping is able to slide out to RT & Fulton goes back to RG & we go into the draft looking at RB/Guard/Center.


Liquid diabetes Koolaid version:koolaid::koolaid:: Howard is a stud at LG & stays there, Trent Williams is brought in to be the LT, Scharping is able to slide out to RT, & Fulton replaces him at RG, or we land a stud RG in the draft.


I know its hard, but there are other versions of what could happen besides the horrible most grotesque version ya'll can imagine.
 
Needing to Stop the Red Flags at Left Tackle
The concern with Matt Kalil is how training camp practices have piled on him, and his play has gone down since day one. Some will say the Texas heat, or he is getting his body ready, but there is still plenty of concern to pay attention to.

When paded practiced started on Kalil struggled with Whitney Mercilus and J.J. Watt, and it has progressively gotten worse. Add in some struggles in Green Bay, the issues for Kalil range from overall playing strength to slowing speed and power rushers down to down.

Some thought processes will attempt to say wait until the regular season but the regular season remains a grind and injuries will mount. If training camp is only in week three, what will the story be like for Kalil starting a left tackle midway through the season with more wear and tear on his body?

Joint practices is another test for the Texans to get one final look at him in a setting that will give them clear answers on Kalil. Even though there have been plenty along the way.

Also, add in Roderick Johnson and how he fits into the picture of the offensive line. The Texans know what they have in Julién Davenport, but they are careful with him after sustaining a knee issue early in camp and trying to get him healthy. The Texans feel they have something with Johnson at offensive tackle and if they can get any returns from him at the position that would be a welcomed sight for the offense.

https://mavensports.io/texans/news/...nst-the-detriot-lions-Z7H5yiWNak652Z-6L22ZWw/
 
Mr teX said:
Ok. That's 1 very drab version of how it could go.

Koolaid version: Howard can transition over to tackle, Rankin slides into the LG position & Scharping stays at RG & we go into the draft possibly only looking for a RT to replace Henderson.


Super Koolaid version:koolaid:: Howard can transition over to tackle, Rankin slides in the LG position, Scharping is able to slide out to RT & Fulton goes back to RG & we go into the draft looking at RB/Guard/Center.


Liquid diabetes Koolaid version:koolaid::koolaid:: Howard is a stud at LG & stays there, Trent Williams is brought in to be the LT, Scharping is able to slide out to RT, & Fulton replaces him at RG, or we land a stud RG in the draft.


I know its hard, but there are other versions of what could happen besides the horrible most grotesque version ya'll can imagine.
Click to expand...
Koolaid: we go into the draft unsure if Howard can play Tackle and Rankin can play guard.

Super koolaid: go into draft unsure if Howard, Rankin & Scharping can play their proposed positions.

To this point you're making my point for me. You're hoping all these things work out. There's a way to know if it would work out. Put them in those positions now.

Liquid diabetes Koolaid: works for me. We now have someone we KNOW can play LT, we find out if Howard and Scharping can play the positions they may stay at. And I'll one up your liquid diabetes koolaid. Have Rankin play at RG and maybe it works and we can forget about the OL in the draft.
 
TheKDog said:
Needing to Stop the Red Flags at Left Tackle
The concern with Matt Kalil is how training camp practices have piled on him, and his play has gone down since day one. Some will say the Texas heat, or he is getting his body ready, but there is still plenty of concern to pay attention to.

When paded practiced started on Kalil struggled with Whitney Mercilus and J.J. Watt, and it has progressively gotten worse. Add in some struggles in Green Bay, the issues for Kalil range from overall playing strength to slowing speed and power rushers down to down.

Some thought processes will attempt to say wait until the regular season but the regular season remains a grind and injuries will mount. If training camp is only in week three, what will the story be like for Kalil starting a left tackle midway through the season with more wear and tear on his body?

Joint practices is another test for the Texans to get one final look at him in a setting that will give them clear answers on Kalil. Even though there have been plenty along the way.

Also, add in Roderick Johnson and how he fits into the picture of the offensive line. The Texans know what they have in Julién Davenport, but they are careful with him after sustaining a knee issue early in camp and trying to get him healthy. The Texans feel they have something with Johnson at offensive tackle and if they can get any returns from him at the position that would be a welcomed sight for the offense.

https://mavensports.io/texans/news/...nst-the-detriot-lions-Z7H5yiWNak652Z-6L22ZWw/
Click to expand...
First news I've heard Davenport having a knee issue.
 
Mr teX said:
Ok. That's 1 very drab version of how it could go.

Koolaid version: Howard can transition over to tackle, Rankin slides into the LG position & Scharping stays at RG & we go into the draft possibly only looking for a RT to replace Henderson.


Super Koolaid version:koolaid:: Howard can transition over to tackle, Rankin slides in the LG position, Scharping is able to slide out to RT & Fulton goes back to RG & we go into the draft looking at RB/Guard/Center.


Liquid diabetes Koolaid version:koolaid::koolaid:: Howard is a stud at LG & stays there, Trent Williams is brought in to be the LT, Scharping is able to slide out to RT, & Fulton replaces him at RG, or we land a stud RG in the draft.


I know its hard, but there are other versions of what could happen besides the horrible most grotesque version ya'll can imagine.
Click to expand...

If the Texans were to trade for Williams the liquid koolaid could happen by the middle of the yr.
 
Max said:
Koolaid: we go into the draft unsure if Howard can play Tackle and Rankin can play guard.

Super koolaid: go into draft unsure if Howard, Rankin & Scharping can play their proposed positions.

To this point you're making my point for me. You're hoping all these things work out. There's a way to know if it would work out. Put them in those positions now.

Liquid diabetes Koolaid: works for me. We now have someone we KNOW can play LT, we find out if Howard and Scharping can play the positions they may stay at. And I'll one up your liquid diabetes koolaid. Have Rankin play at RG and maybe it works and we can forget about the OL in the draft.
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All i'm saying is there's a ying to the yang. So much of what gets posted on this MB these days is doom & gloom. We've got 1 of the brightest young stars at qb, & all people can really talk about on here is him getting injured. Thats just a horrible way to look at it. There's a flip side to that coin man.
 
TheKDog said:
Needing to Stop the Red Flags at Left Tackle
The concern with Matt Kalil is how training camp practices have piled on him, and his play has gone down since day one. Some will say the Texas heat, or he is getting his body ready, but there is still plenty of concern to pay attention to.

When paded practiced started on Kalil struggled with Whitney Mercilus and J.J. Watt, and it has progressively gotten worse. Add in some struggles in Green Bay, the issues for Kalil range from overall playing strength to slowing speed and power rushers down to down.

Some thought processes will attempt to say wait until the regular season but the regular season remains a grind and injuries will mount. If training camp is only in week three, what will the story be like for Kalil starting a left tackle midway through the season with more wear and tear on his body?

Joint practices is another test for the Texans to get one final look at him in a setting that will give them clear answers on Kalil. Even though there have been plenty along the way.

Also, add in Roderick Johnson and how he fits into the picture of the offensive line. The Texans know what they have in Julién Davenport, but they are careful with him after sustaining a knee issue early in camp and trying to get him healthy. The Texans feel they have something with Johnson at offensive tackle and if they can get any returns from him at the position that would be a welcomed sight for the offense.

https://mavensports.io/texans/news/...nst-the-detriot-lions-Z7H5yiWNak652Z-6L22ZWw/
Click to expand...
First I've heard of Davenport sustaining knee issue in camp. Can anyone link to it from other than this source?
 
Mr teX said:
All i'm saying is there's a ying to the yang. So much of what gets posted on this MB these days is doom & gloom. We've got 1 of the brightest young stars at qb, & all people can really talk about on here is him getting injured. Thats just a horrible way to look at it. There's a flip side to that coin man.
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I'm with you on trying to see the other side of the coin than the doom & gloom crowd. But in your defense of BOB, I think you consistently overlook how much this team has been set back by improper evaluation of talent and the cascade effect it has had on draft picks & trades year over year. In 2 years, we've brought in 5 guys who are now playing guard or center (Kelemete, Fulton, Rankin, Howard, Scharping) and 3 of them were initially thought to be tackles (Rankin, Howard and Scharping). That doesn't seem like a good plan. If Rankin can't play T, then he's a G, right? Well, we just used a 1st and 2nd round pick that are now playing his position, so do we know if he can play G? Or is last year's 3rd round pick a bust already? The answer is that we don't know because of how they're deciding to evaluate these guys. And just like we don't know what we have in Rankin at G, next year we won't know what we have in Howard and Scharping at T. So looking on the bright side, hopefully it all just works out. But it still doesn't address whether or not it's the smartest way to go about building a team (which was my point).
 
Max, I agree with all that you said. But, can you describe what method or blueprint, you would use to build a team ?
 
Mr teX said:
All i'm saying is there's a ying to the yang. So much of what gets posted on this MB these days is doom & gloom. We've got 1 of the brightest young stars at qb, & all people can really talk about on here is him getting injured. Thats just a horrible way to look at it. There's a flip side to that coin man.
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They need to protect the young man if they want to succeed. So far 2 GM's have failed to do this. If given what Watson needs to succeed he could become Steve Young. I've just never understood GM's who trade 2 or more 1st rd picks for a QB, who they then fail to protect properly.
 
steelbtexan said:
They need to protect the young man if they want to succeed. So far 2 GM's have failed to do this. If given what Watson needs to succeed he could become Steve Young. I've just never understood GM's who trade 2 or more 1st rd picks for a QB, who they then fail to protect properly.[/

I would guess that 60% or more of the NFL teams are looking for a franchise QB each year. John Elway has found out the hard way, that guys like him don't just fall in your lap very often. When you get one, you've got to make use of him. You've got to play to his strengths and keep him healthy as much and as long as you can. We spent our first and second round picks on what seemed to be a second and third round lineman. Idoubt that they will go after two more in 2020. They looked to me to be our best two linemen against the Packers. We went into the draft needing two tackles, (unless Davenport) begins to blossom. Thunder has 4 requirements for success .... and two of them are Draft Good Players. I don't think we brought in the right players before the draft. I don't think we worked them out sufficiently while they were here. I think we need to bring the best player personnel man that money can buy. I thought the Raiders were brilliant to bring in Mayock. It's kind of - off the wall - but it's aggressive !
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steelbtexan said:
They need to protect the young man if they want to succeed. So far 2 GM's have failed to do this. If given what Watson needs to succeed he could become Steve Young. I've just never understood GM's who trade 2 or more 1st rd picks for a QB, who they then fail to protect properly.[/

I would guess that 60% or more of the NFL teams are looking for a franchise QB each year. John Elway has found out the hard way, that guys like him don't just fall in your lap very often. When you get one, you've got to make use of him. You've got to play to his strengths and keep him healthy as much and as long as you can. We spent our first and second round picks on what seemed to be a second and third round lineman. Idoubt that they will go after two more in 2020. They looked to me to be our best two linemen against the Packers. We went into the draft needing two tackles, (unless Davenport) begins to blossom. Thunder has 4 requirements for success .... and two of them are Draft Good Players. I don't think we brought in the right players before the draft. I don't think we worked them out sufficiently while they were here. I think we need to bring the best player personnel man that money can buy. I thought the Raiders were brilliant to bring in Mayock. It's kind of - off the wall - but it's aggressive !
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justmy2cents said:
Max, I agree with all that you said. But, can you describe what method or blueprint, you would use to build a team ?
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I was discussing the OL, so in that regard, I think that things should be simplified. I'm sure a lot of guys on here have played and can relate to hearing the play called in the huddle and trying to remember what you're supposed to do on that play. I can remember several times not having it clear in my head until I had my hand in the dirt. That was with one play called in the huddle -- these guys have two. Add to that trying to remember if the blocking assignment you think you're supposed to have is for what they taught you at tackle or guard and it's way too much going on in a rookie's head IMO. When I see Rankin last year freeze and literally decide to not block anyone on several plays, I don't see a guy that can't play necessarily, I see a guy that needs to learn the playbook because his head is filled with too much stuff. So for Olineman, play them at the position you've picked them to play at. Professional scouts and coaches should be able to identify if someone is a guard or a tackle before acquiring the talent. Then evaluate by letting them learn that position well.

Overall blueprint is a different story and I thought the plan w/ Gaine was good as far as building through the draft and supplementing w/ mid tier free agents and paying your core stars. The execution wasn't there but I think it's the only way to build w/ today's cap rules.

On a side note, I think it's fair to question whether talent acquisition is the problem or the system itself when there seems to be many more player misses on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side. I'm sure someone will point out where I'm off on that take but it seems that way to me.
 
Max said:
I was discussing the OL, so in that regard, I think that things should be simplified. I'm sure a lot of guys on here have played and can relate to hearing the play called in the huddle and trying to remember what you're supposed to do on that play. I can remember several times not having it clear in my head until I had my hand in the dirt. That was with one play called in the huddle -- these guys have two. Add to that trying to remember if the blocking assignment you think you're supposed to have is for what they taught you at tackle or guard and it's way too much going on in a rookie's head IMO. When I see Rankin last year freeze and literally decide to not block anyone on several plays, I don't see a guy that can't play necessarily, I see a guy that needs to learn the playbook because his head is filled with too much stuff. So for Olineman, play them at the position you've picked them to play at. Professional scouts and coaches should be able to identify if someone is a guard or a tackle before acquiring the talent. Then evaluate by letting them learn that position well.

Overall blueprint is a different story and I thought the plan w/ Gaine was good as far as building through the draft and supplementing w/ mid tier free agents and paying your core stars. The execution wasn't there but I think it's the only way to build w/ today's cap rules.

On a side note, I think it's fair to question whether talent acquisition is the problem or the system itself when there seems to be many more player misses on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side. I'm sure someone will point out where I'm off on that take but it seems that way to me.
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That someone will not be me. I think it could be as simple as - Romeo is a much better judge of talent than Bill. Surely a Mathews, or a Munchak, or a Wade Smith wouldn't be a key first step. As brilliant as O'Brien is, he would have implemented it long ago .... Shirley !
 
Uncle Rico said:
While I agree with the overall sentiment, I will add that Duane Brown - the best LT this team has ever known, was drafted 3 slots behind where Bill Obrien took Tytus Howard, and Duane Brown never had to play guard.

If the TExans needed guards, and that was their aim, then they completely botched the 2019 draft.
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What was Max Scharping ?

Haven't heard a thing about him thus far ….

That draft looks worse and worse the further away from it we get …

Howard cant play tackle. Scharping is MIA , Warring is the second coming of Bennie Joppru and Lonnie Johnson gets kicked outa practices …. (not complaining about Johnson just adding to the list of X)

This team is totally dysfunctional. That cluster**** we watched in Green Bay was not anything resembling a "well coached team" …. they looked worse than the Browns over the last 5 years from start to finish.
 
Corrosion said:
What was Max Scharping ?

Haven't heard a thing about him thus far ….

That draft looks worse and worse the further away from it we get …

Howard cant play tackle. Scharping is MIA , Warring is the second coming of Bennie Joppru and Lonnie Johnson gets kicked outa practices …. (not complaining about Johnson just adding to the list of X)

This team is totally dysfunctional. That cluster**** we watched in Green Bay was not anything resembling a "well coached team" …. they looked worse than the Browns over the last 5 years from start to finish.
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Yep, 2 months removed from the draft and before the season ever starts the entire draft was a bust. I agree we should base all our thoughts on this season on a pre-season game where we were playing the backup to our backup QB.

FYI, Howard can play tackle they just don't have him doing it but when he did get reps there he looked pretty good.

Scharping is not MIA he played RG and the biggest reason they had him playing RG is because Martin is injured, again, and Fulton had to move to center so Scharping was moved to RG, he has been getting reps at RT.

I agree with declaring Warring a bust before he ever plays a single down, it saves time later and allows us to ignore all the good things we heard about him in practice.
 
Corrosion said:
What was Max Scharping ?

Haven't heard a thing about him thus far ….

That draft looks worse and worse the further away from it we get …

Howard cant play tackle. Scharping is MIA , Warring is the second coming of Bennie Joppru and Lonnie Johnson gets kicked outa practices …. (not complaining about Johnson just adding to the list of X)

This team is totally dysfunctional. That cluster**** we watched in Green Bay was not anything resembling a "well coached team" …. they looked worse than the Browns over the last 5 years from start to finish.
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Thats where im at with this year so far. You'll have the eternal optimists spout off "the year hasnt even started, you need to give guys 3 years before you declare busts" yada yada. My thing is that you could have DeAndre BAker as your starting CB this year, and ran out the same offensive line as last year and you would be better as a team. You could have done many things in the draft differently if you really felt the guard position needed to be addressed. These guys are so reactionary and do things based off emotional response vs a businesslike approach. See guys have a few good reps at the Senior Bowl? Draft em in the 1st round why not!! Have your 3rd round RB late to a meeting? Cut him outright why not?! Spend another 3rd on a lineman you valued last year (Rankin) and this year it looks like he's not even in the picture. YOu wont give up a 3rd round pick to move up and get the best TRUE LT available, but then you WILL use that pick on a backup running back this year because you totally botched how you dealt with Foreman? Its a ridiculously poorly run team/business and you dont need an MBA to see that.

Max Sharping was the starting LT for the fightin' Northern Illinois Huskies! Woof! Woof! Guy has probably never played inside and now people wonder why he's struggling the dude is freaking 6'6 LOL pad level is a real thing when talking about interior line play and the leverage needed to be successful - reminds me of Mike Iupati - phenom OG in college, but as soon as he hit the NFL those nasty boogers that were just as heavy, and were 3 inches shorter would get up under him and make his life a nightmare. To his credit he has been able to be successful at the NFL level obviously but he's a guy I remember not really blowing up like I thought he would and it could be just a matter of inches .. literally. Im looking for guys 6'3 ideally, but no taller than 6'4 to work the inside of my line. I'd be grooming Sharping as my RT exclusively, and Howard as the LT exclusively. You should have enough players on the roster to fill out the interior line. Yes, I would start both of those rookies at the edge - they cant be worse than Kalil/Henderson.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Thats where im at with this year so far. You'll have the eternal optimists spout off "the year hasnt even started, you need to give guys 3 years before you declare busts" yada yada. My thing is that you could have DeAndre BAker as your starting CB this year, and ran out the same offensive line as last year and you would be better as a team. You could have done many things in the draft differently if you really felt the guard position needed to be addressed. These guys are so reactionary and do things based off emotional response vs a businesslike approach. See guys have a few good reps at the Senior Bowl? Draft em in the 1st round why not!! Have your 3rd round RB late to a meeting? Cut him outright why not?! Spend another 3rd on a lineman you valued last year (Rankin) and this year it looks like he's not even in the picture. YOu wont give up a 3rd round pick to move up and get the best TRUE LT available, but then you WILL use that pick on a backup running back this year because you totally botched how you dealt with Foreman? Its a ridiculously poorly run team/business and you dont need an MBA to see that.

Max Sharping was the starting LT for the fightin' Northern Illinois Huskies! Woof! Woof! Guy has probably never played inside and now people wonder why he's struggling the dude is freaking 6'6 LOL pad level is a real thing when talking about interior line play and the leverage needed to be successful - reminds me of Mike Iupati - phenom OG in college, but as soon as he hit the NFL those nasty boogers that were just as heavy, and were 3 inches shorter would get up under him and make his life a nightmare. To his credit he has been able to be successful at the NFL level obviously but he's a guy I remember not really blowing up like I thought he would and it could be just a matter of inches .. literally. Im looking for guys 6'3 ideally, but no taller than 6'4 to work the inside of my line. I'd be grooming Sharping as my RT exclusively, and Howard as the LT exclusively. You should have enough players on the roster to fill out the interior line. Yes, I would start both of those rookies at the edge - they cant be worse than Kalil/Henderson.
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Really hope the irony is not lost.
 
I do not see the problem in letting these guys get their feet wet at positions where they are more likely to succeed and where they might have more support from veteran teammates on their right and left. We could also have gone the route the team did with Duane Brown and have one or both of Howard and Scharping play OT switching off series too. And if we had guys that were better OGs than what Scharping or Howard are then that might be better the plan. However, if going this route puts our best talent out on the field and serves the purpose of making our rookie o-linemen better too, whats the ******* problem? Does anyone think that they would not get kicked out to tackle around the bye week if they are ready? Later in the season? Is there any reason to believe that if they do not begin week 1 at OT that they cannot later be moved out there if they are ready?
 
Uncle Rico said:
Thats where im at with this year so far. You'll have the eternal optimists spout off "the year hasnt even started, you need to give guys 3 years before you declare busts" yada yada. My thing is that you could have DeAndre BAker as your starting CB this year, and ran out the same offensive line as last year and you would be better as a team. You could have done many things in the draft differently if you really felt the guard position needed to be addressed. These guys are so reactionary and do things based off emotional response vs a businesslike approach. See guys have a few good reps at the Senior Bowl? Draft em in the 1st round why not!! Have your 3rd round RB late to a meeting? Cut him outright why not?! Spend another 3rd on a lineman you valued last year (Rankin) and this year it looks like he's not even in the picture. YOu wont give up a 3rd round pick to move up and get the best TRUE LT available, but then you WILL use that pick on a backup running back this year because you totally botched how you dealt with Foreman? Its a ridiculously poorly run team/business and you dont need an MBA to see that.

Max Sharping was the starting LT for the fightin' Northern Illinois Huskies! Woof! Woof! Guy has probably never played inside and now people wonder why he's struggling the dude is freaking 6'6 LOL pad level is a real thing when talking about interior line play and the leverage needed to be successful - reminds me of Mike Iupati - phenom OG in college, but as soon as he hit the NFL those nasty boogers that were just as heavy, and were 3 inches shorter would get up under him and make his life a nightmare. To his credit he has been able to be successful at the NFL level obviously but he's a guy I remember not really blowing up like I thought he would and it could be just a matter of inches .. literally. Im looking for guys 6'3 ideally, but no taller than 6'4 to work the inside of my line. I'd be grooming Sharping as my RT exclusively, and Howard as the LT exclusively. You should have enough players on the roster to fill out the interior line. Yes, I would start both of those rookies at the edge - they cant be worse than Kalil/Henderson.
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Great post,

I would have gone a different direction during the draft. Foreman couldn't make it back from injury like CnD predicted.

As of right now I would trade for Williams if he becomes available.

An OL of

Williams, Howard/Martin/Fulton/Scharping has potential to be at least avg. Howard's athletic profile translates more to of than it. IMHO This doesn't mean he can't play it but he's better as an og.

Good news is next yrs ot class is a really good one if you need a LT. Unfortunately Devlin will find a way to miss out on the franchise LT's and recommend a small school guy that he will get credit for developing. This orgs arrogance knows no bounds.

Sorry you've got me on ignore and won't see this post.
 
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steelbtexan said:
They need to protect the young man if they want to succeed. So far 2 GM's have failed to do this. If given what Watson needs to succeed he could become Steve Young. I've just never understood GM's who trade 2 or more 1st rd picks for a QB, who they then fail to protect properly.
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Excellent point SteelB ! Well said my man !
Yea it's kinda like investing a ton of cash in one's residence which lies on an earth quake fault and then woefully underinsuring it. It's really stunning and puzzling when one thinks about it you know ?
The Houston Texans organization has now had 3 (three) Drafts and 3 (three) offseason free agencies to secure just capable, not suprior, just capable protection for Watson and right now nobody really has a clue what we've got at LT today ?
 
Childress79 said:
I do not see the problem in letting these guys get their feet wet at positions where they are more likely to succeed and where they might have more support from veteran teammates on their right and left. We could also have gone the route the team did with Duane Brown and have one or both of Howard and Scharping play OT switching off series too. And if we had guys that were better OGs than what Scharping or Howard are then that might be better the plan. However, if going this route puts our best talent out on the field and serves the purpose of making our rookie o-linemen better too, whats the ******* problem? Does anyone think that they would not get kicked out to tackle around the bye week if they are ready? Later in the season? Is there any reason to believe that if they do not begin week 1 at OT that they cannot later be moved out there if they are ready?
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Most everything on this board is agenda driven
 
IDEXAN said:
Excellent point SteelB ! Well said my man !
Yea it's kinda like investing a ton of cash in one's residence which lies on an earth quake fault and then woefully underinsuring it. It's really stunning and puzzling when one thinks about it you know ?
The Houston Texans organization has now had 3 (three) Drafts and 3 (three) offseason free agencies to secure just capable, not suprior, just capable protection for Watson and right now nobody really has a clue what we've got at LT today ?
Click to expand...

I'm sure what the Texans have at LT today... a clusterfuck!
 
IDEXAN said:
Excellent point SteelB ! Well said my man !
Yea it's kinda like investing a ton of cash in one's residence which lies on an earth quake fault and then woefully underinsuring it. It's really stunning and puzzling when one thinks about it you know ?
The Houston Texans organization has now had 3 (three) Drafts and 3 (three) offseason free agencies to secure just capable, not suprior, just capable protection for Watson and right now nobody really has a clue what we've got at LT today ?
Click to expand...

Sad when you think about all of the cap space they have available. Negligence.
 
JB said:
I'm sure what the Texans have at LT today... a clusterfuck!
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Didn't have to be this way. There was the best LT in the draft sitting right there and Gaine decided to go in another direction.

Also Gaine could've added a serviceable LT like Nsekhe cheaply if he didn't want to spend big money on a guy like Brown.

Gaine decided in typical arrogant Texans fashion to draft a small school guy and sign a washed up Kalil. Is it any wonder that the Texans org is where they are today with this type of thinking. Watson should file a criminal negligence suit against the Texans org.
 
steelbtexan said:
Didn't have to be this way. There was the best LT in the draft sitting right there and Gaine decided to go in another direction.

Also Gaine could've added a serviceable LT like Nsekhe cheaply if he didn't want to spend big money on a guy like Brown.

Gaine decided in typical arrogant Texans fashion to draft a small school guy and sign a washed up Kalil. Is it any wonder that the Texans org is where they are today with this type of thinking. Watson should file a criminal negligence suit against the Texans org.
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Not everyone thought Dillard was best LT much less worth giving up picks for
 
JB said:
Not everyone thought Dillard was best LT much less worth giving up picks for
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And they will be wrong. You will see.

Maybe not this yr only because Peters is ahead of him but by next season you will see. I wonder if the LT that started for the Eagles is available? V is no world beater but he's better than any LT currently on the Texans roster. I studied Dillard for 2 yrs before the last draft
 
steelbtexan said:
Great post,

I would have gone a different direction during the draft. Foreman couldn't make it back from injury like CnD predicted.

As of right now I would trade for Williams if he becomes available.

An OL of

Williams, Howard/Martin/Fulton/Scharping has potential to be at least avg. Howard's athletic profile translates more to of than it. IMHO This doesn't mean he can't play it but he's better as an og.

Good news is next yrs ot class is a really good one if you need a LT. Unfortunately Devlin will find a way to miss out on the franchise LT's and recommend a small school guy that he will get credit for developing. This orgs arrogance knows no bounds.

Sorry you've got me on ignore and won't see this post.
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Foreman's work ethic was the issue not the injury he sustained a few years ago. Lol
 
Texansballer74 said:
Foreman's work ethic was the issue not the injury he sustained a few years ago. Lol
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If you mean work ethic in the sense that he didn't work hard enough to come back from injury we can agree.

But tell me how many rb's have made it back from that injury to the level of performance they had before the injury?
 
Max said:
I was discussing the OL, so in that regard, I think that things should be simplified. I'm sure a lot of guys on here have played and can relate to hearing the play called in the huddle and trying to remember what you're supposed to do on that play. I can remember several times not having it clear in my head until I had my hand in the dirt. That was with one play called in the huddle -- these guys have two. Add to that trying to remember if the blocking assignment you think you're supposed to have is for what they taught you at tackle or guard and it's way too much going on in a rookie's head IMO. When I see Rankin last year freeze and literally decide to not block anyone on several plays, I don't see a guy that can't play necessarily, I see a guy that needs to learn the playbook because his head is filled with too much stuff. So for Olineman, play them at the position you've picked them to play at. Professional scouts and coaches should be able to identify if someone is a guard or a tackle before acquiring the talent. Then evaluate by letting them learn that position well.

Overall blueprint is a different story and I thought the plan w/ Gaine was good as far as building through the draft and supplementing w/ mid tier free agents and paying your core stars. The execution wasn't there but I think it's the only way to build w/ today's cap rules.

On a side note, I think it's fair to question whether talent acquisition is the problem or the system itself when there seems to be many more player misses on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side. I'm sure someone will point out where I'm off on that take but it seems that way to me.
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Only on the OL. Foreman busted due to injury, can't help that. Except he had precursor foot injury before the draft.

When it comes to fa, I'm a quality over quantity guy and if getting an above avg LT means losing Clowney I'm on board.
 
steelbtexan said:
And they will be wrong. You will see.

Maybe not this yr only because Peters is ahead of him but by next season you will see. I wonder if the LT that started for the Eagles is available? V is no world beater but he's better than any LT currently on the Texans roster. I studied Dillard for 2 yrs before the last draft
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Just like we were wrong about not wanting Nate Solder who is undergoing ankle surgery and was part of an offensive line that was somehow worst than ours.

Just like we were wrong about Trent Brown and he is now the highest paid lineman in history and is playing LG.

And just for laughs like we were wrong about not wanting Antonia Brown who is threatening to sit out the season because the NFL won't let him keep his helmet.
 
maverick512000 said:
Just like we were wrong about not wanting Nate Solder who is undergoing ankle surgery and was part of an offensive line that was somehow worst than ours.

Just like we were wrong about Trent Brown and he is now the highest paid lineman in history and is playing LG.

And just for laughs like we were wrong about not wanting Antonia Brown who is threatening to sit out the season because the NFL won't let him keep his helmet.
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Solder played well towards the end of last yr. Look at the points the NYG's offense put up at the end of last year and I expect them to be better this year since they've added a couple of ol in fa/trade.

Trent Brown is 25 yrs old and won a ring as a starting LT. The play that won the SB was run over him. The Raiders moved him to RT because they spent a 1st Rd pick on their LT of the future 2 drafts ago. Gruden believes in protecting his QB and invests both draft/fa capital in doing so. Don't you wish the Texans org would do the same?

BTW, Solder/Brown would be better than any LT's the Texans are currently running out there.

I originally wanted Antonio, but after seeing what a head case he is I would have passed.

I'm interested in seeing how the Raiders do next yr, even though they have a loser in Carr at QB.
 
Max said:
I think you consistently overlook how much this team has been set back by improper evaluation of talent and the cascade effect it has had on draft picks & trades year over year.
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"Improper" evaluation is the name of the game in the NFL. total guestimation on my part, but i would guess that most HC's..including Belichick only hit on 50% of draft pick and FA's they bring in..& that's max.

Max said:
In 2 years, we've brought in 5 guys who are now playing guard or center (Kelemete, Fulton, Rankin, Howard, Scharping) and 3 of them were initially thought to be tackles (Rankin, Howard and Scharping).
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Max said:
That doesn't seem like a good plan.
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2 years ago most everyone was whining about getting a franchise qb. That's all we needed is what they said....very few here & elsewhere were looking at the o-line & that's b/c.........2 years ago, If you would've asked everyone here & elsewhere...hell even if you asked BoB what he thought his o-line would look like in the future, he would've said Brown-XSF-Martin-Brooks-Newton. Well There's a reason why the saying "the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry" is so popular.........it's b/c it has real truth to it!

Max said:
If Rankin can't play T, then he's a G, right? Well, we just used a 1st and 2nd round pick that are now playing his position, so do we know if he can play G? Or is last year's 3rd round pick a bust already? The answer is that we don't know because of how they're deciding to evaluate these guys.
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This is how it is done in the NFL & how it's been done forever......especially along the O & D-lines. You think the Chiefs would've taken Eric Fisher #1 overall if they'd known he would have to start out at RT b/c he was terrible on the left? You think it was in their plans to be moving him up & down the o-line trying to find a place for him where he could play? Not a guy taken that high it wasn't. But it happens. & you see the same process working itself out all over the league b/c the thought process is the sum is greater than the individual parts...............& the focus is to get the best 5 on the field. Us knowing "how" they evaluate these guys is irrelevant & if we did, it still wouldn't mean that the evaluation was "improper". B/c as you can see with guys like Mandarich, Gallery, Joekel.......XSF, the evaluations don't mean a whole lot coming from anybody. You can either play, or you can't.
 
Mr teX said:
2 years ago most everyone was whining about getting a franchise qb. That's all we needed is what they said....very few here & elsewhere were looking at the o-line & that's b/c.........2 years ago, If you would've asked everyone here & elsewhere...hell even if you asked BoB what he thought his o-line would look like in the future, he would've said Brown-XSF-Martin-Brooks-Newton. Well There's a reason why the saying "the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry" is so popular.........it's b/c it has real truth to it!
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2 Years ago we didn't care about protecting the QB because it wouldn't have mattered even if we did. You could have put Savage behind just about any Oline and he still would have sucked. Hell there were several times I was hoping he would have to scramble because at least then we might gain some yards and he was less likely to fumble than he was throw an interception.
 
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