dream_team
Hall of Fame
I totally disagree. While talent IS important, it should NOT always win out. That sounds like Rick's motto when he drafted XSF or Nix.
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- Thread starter TripleTap
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I totally disagree. While talent IS important, it should NOT always win out. That sounds like Rick's motto when he drafted XSF or Nix.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
True, but in hindsight wouldnt have Sharping been a better use of a first round pick? You could at least argue that his combine measurables rated much higher than Howard? With Howard its all possibility, and what was seen in a few senior bowl practices and one game vs a worthy opponent.
Should have grabbed the best CB in the draft instead of more projects. This is starting to look like my father in laws garage. Half completed projects everywhere, shitton of money spent, and nothing to show for it.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I totally agree. It's still too early to call last season's draft a success, therefore WAY too early to call this draft a failure.
IMO, the success of this draft largely resides on Tytus (obviously). I think if Dillard slipped one more spot to us, and we got him, people would be praising this draft and handing out A's. I think the main reason people are calling this draft a bust is because they think Tytus was a reach and we should have traded down if he was the pick all along. There's two problems with that:
1. You need to find a willing trade partner. Typically, teams call YOU to trade up, it's not the other way around.
2. If Tytus is really the guy you wanted, then it only takes one team to screw up those plans. If you're confident he won't be there with your next pick, then take him now. Screw what "experts" think.
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Wasn’t this wording thrown around with Luke Joekel, Cam Robinson, Matt Kalil and numerous other? Hell I remember when Trae Wayne’s was called the most nfl ready prospect (not too take away from OL). How about we wait and see what the proof in the pudding is?
Sure, anything can happen. Dillard could be a bust and some 5th round pick could end up a pro bowler.
Just saying with the info we have now Dillard is better. Super bowl champs Philly jumped for him for a reason.
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
They did with planning for the future which isn’t a bad move if you think that’s the guy.
There are to many factors to get hung up on to really be disappointed. From a distance you think it’s bad, and it very well could be. Scheme fit could have played a role as well as does the actual player fit with the culture.
Also the info we have is solely speculation, none of it is fact so speaking in absolutes is just silly at this point.
Great post
If I'm choosing between 2 guys and neither one have entitlement issues I'm taking the more talented guy and I really dont care about his past. Winning should be all that matters, it's the reason they keep score and the more talented the player the better the chance of winning.
Many disagree with my philosophy, but the Not Texans Worthy philosophy has gotten the Texans org where they are today and likely where they will remain. (Perpetual mediocrity)
Your daily dose of hyperbole sb?
So you think the Texans org has always prioritized drafting talent 1st and foremost.
Well the Chiefs did play in the AFCCG and those guys were stars. Ask yourself why they weren't on the Texans. Could it be that they weren't Texans worthy?
Or didn't draft Hill/Kelce/Peters/Talib etc....
You know guys that have actually played in AFCCG/SB's.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Jamarcus Russell... so should we keep listing examples to support our stance until we have a winner?
The obvious answer is it's a combination of talent, desire, intelligence, etc. You don't just draft talent and hope everything else will just work out.
BTW, stating Hill, Peters and Talib aren't exactly the best examples to keep stating. These guys don't stick around w/ their teams for long. They give a few good seasons until their team grows tired of their attitude. In Hill's case, he may never play again.
bah007
Hall of Fame
In the situation you describe I of course agree with you. Talent wins out.
I work with kids so development of character and decision making skills are ultra important. They are still maturing and we are trying to develop them into young men. At the NFL level it is a little bit different. You are dealing with adults. Young ones, but still grown men.
Their character matters to the degree that it impacts their ability to improve and grow as players and do their job. Their past matters to the degree that it impacts their decision making and ability to stay on the field and out of trouble. If you can check those boxes then that should be a green light. That's why personal interviews with prospects, teammates, and coaches are such a big deal. I need to know that this guy is worth the investment I'm about to make in him.
Dejaview
All Pro
Old quote so I will have to paraphrase. Went something like Sports don’t create character they just destroy those without it.
Dejaview
All Pro
No, it couldn’t. The best you can do is pick a team loaded with picks and picking ahead of the Texans? Why didn’t these “studs” beat the Pats? Pats always draft late. Character? BG has made all of 12 or so picks as GM.
Some guys bust
Funny that you had to go back a decade or more.
These guys may wear out their welcome, but it's usually after a longer playoff run than the Text have had since their inception.
We have this discussion annually after another disappointing Texans season. You can expect more of the same until they change their ways. I've been saying this since 2010
The Pats are the anomaly, they have the greatest HC/QB of all time.
BTW, the Eagles did beat them 2 yrs ago using my philosophy. You would think after this many yrs posters would start to come around to my way of thinking. In fact some have.
Another thought, how much cap room do the Texans have/going to roll over while their QB is still on his rookie contract? Yep they are doing everything possible to put the best product on the field possible.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Exactamundo! Look at all the 1st rounders that never amount to jack. Talent is good, but it's not everything.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Come on man... what's up with this "decade or more" crap? Those are just the first guys that popped in my head. I could have gone more recent with guys like Donte Fowler or Reuben Foster.
Your model franchise as an example keeps being the Kansas City Chiefs, and yet, they have only been "marginally" better than the Texans. They took a large step forward for one reason, and one reason alone... Pat Mahomes. I predict they'll take a step back next season, due to losing talent because of idiocy.
I agree with you on the interview process. Sometimes you have to take a few chances on guys with troubled pasts, since alot of these guys have come from terrible backgrounds I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I also agree with you that teaching kids how to become young men is the most important part of your job and winning sometimes gets in the way. There's a big difference in what you do and the NFL.
Thanks for all that you do for the kids.
And the Rams/Eagles/Vikings/Saints
There are no assurances in life but those teams have given them their best chance of winning. Surely you can see the difference in how these teams are run and the way the Texans are run?
And the Rams/Eagles/Vikings/Saints
There are no assurances in life but those teams have given them their best chance of winning. Surely you can see the difference in how these teams are run and the way the Texans are run?
Texas Jake
Rookie
Only because of the fabulous spread they had in the green room for them to chow down on.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
The Vikings isn't the best of examples.
The Rams, Eagles & Saints had their biggest turnaround when their current coaches came on bored. So if your argument is FO needs to do a better job at finding HCs, I would agree.
What I am telling you is in addition to new HC's they changed the way they acquire players.
Until the Texans do likewise we will continue to have this discussion. I've been saying this since 2010.
Expect more of the same next yr.
Absolutely. They have offensive coaches that know what they are doing.
And they try to get the best players on their teams.
Look at these teams OL's and then look at the Texans OL and you will see the root of the Texans offensive issues.
This is why Gaine drafted 2OT's in the first 2rd
Of course WFV getting hurt didn't help at all either.
Huh ?!
I think we are watching two different teams …. cause I didn't see an offense that was helped at all by coaching , what I saw was a poorly designed and coached offense with Watson pulling the occasional rabbit outa his hat or DHop having to make catches with defenders in his jersey with him.
There's a ton more talent here than the production we saw.
Are you implying that bored coaches are better than coaches who don't come on bored?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The "they" was Rams/Eagles/Vikings/Saints.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
But then why didn't BoB change the system to cover for the weaknesses and no having all the TEs as blockers is not enough of a change. If you're Oline can't create holes then you don't keep sending your RB up the middle unless he is a bulldozer type of RB that creates his own holes which Miller is not by any means. Likewise if you know your QB is still young, not the best at reading Ds and has a habit of going for the big play you take that out of his hands and call for short, fast plays that nickel and dime the other team to death.
There are a lot of things on this board that BoB gets blamed for that are not his fault but this insistence on making the player fit the system and not the system fit the players is completely his fault. Even you were saying that he should have hired on OC, in fact you were saying it was going to be Ryan I believe. Hopefully, they have drafted guys that fit the system and the current roster has adjusted to fit the system because otherwise yeah the Texans aren't going anywhere but it won't be due to lack of talent any more.
I agree with this.
The adjustments he did make and shortening the games and trusting the defense lead to 11 wins.
Also losing WFV hurt the offense just as much as the terrible OL play.
throwANDREtheBALL
Waterboy
DRAFT GRADE for 2019 DRAFT
D-
It would've been an F, but the Omenihu pick was an A+ and brought it up.
D-
It would've been an F, but the Omenihu pick was an A+ and brought it up.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
problem is most people grade off opinion, based off need or BPA as it currently stands. Nobody has a crystal ball to forecast how well those needs are met and redraft years later. So, IMO, know its purely for entertainment purposes, but this draft class is just un-gradable @ this early stage in these prospects careers and current state of the Texan roster. Not going to split hairs on any of the late round picks, frankly because bust rate is traditionally so high, but from 1st through the 5th all prospects have high enough ceilings, if met, to play for a long time in the NFL.
Even (and) especially pre-draft general rankings are at best educated guesses. We have so much speculation about the event the draft beforehand, that we forget the event the draft is not wrong...
Negative. Lucky breaks and opposing coaches having brain farts led to 11 wins. The 2018 Texans were an 8-8, at best, team.
Dejaview
All Pro
Interesting. In the Howard thread YOU stated Dillard may not even start this year. May need some time. Which way is it?
really agree. This is BG’s second draft. First one with picks higher than the third. He has a depleted roster yet people think he is going to throw picks away to move up a notch. Get real. But you correctly emphasize “this state of the Texan roster”. BG needs quality bodies at this stage. As many as he can get....and they have to fit his requirements. I believe he was handcuffed from trading down for extra picks because the player he most needed was there at 23 but maybe not much later. LATER, year or two, he starts to look at those FA’s or trading up for that piece that may help send them deeper in the playoffs. But thanks for bringing up that concept of roster state.
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Texas Jake
Rookie
Only because of the fabulous spread they had in the green room for them to chow down on.
Everyone knows boredom sparks creativity.Are you implying that bored coaches are better than coaches who don't come on bored?
They did?
Houston Texans
Round 1 (23): OT Tytus Howard, Alabama State
Round 2 (54): CB Lonnie Johnson, Kentucky
Round 2 (55): OT Max Scharping, Northern Illinois
Round 3 (86): TE Kahale Warring, San Diego State
Round 5 (161): Edge Charles Omenihu, Texas
Round 6 (195): CB Xavier Crawford, Central Michigan
Round 7 (220): FB Cullen Gillaspia, Texas A&M
Day 1:
Houston surprised many inside and outside of the PFF office when they selected former Alabama State offensive tackle Tytus Howard. He held up very well in his time against FBS competition, pitching a shutout on 38 pass-blocking snaps against Auburn this past season. He also had the highest win rate of any tackle in the 1-on-1s at the Senior Bowl. However, slotted as the No. 56 overall player on PFF’s board, he’s still a reach at pick No. 23.
“Now, I like Tytus Howard. I think he’s a good offensive tackle prospect. He is a bit of a reach, still.” – Pro Football Focus’ Lead Draft Analyst Mike Renner
Day 2:
Weighing in at 6-foot-2, 213 pounds at the Combine, Kentucky cornerback Lonnie Johnson is another long cornerback with a ton of potential going onto the NFL. He earned a 72.0 coverage grade and allowed an 84.0 passer rating when targeted in 2018, ranking outside the top-50 draft-eligible FBS cornerbacks in both categories. However, he is only potential until proven otherwise, and he will need to get a lot better in the NFL to see the field and thrive as a starter.
Another small-school product now playing offensive line for the Texans, Northern Illinois standout Max Scharping earned 87.0 pass-blocking grades every year of his career as a four-year starter for the Huskies.
A combination of positional value and low-floor potential in the NFL left San Diego State tight end Kahale Warring on the outside looking in regards to our final top-250 list.
Day 3:
Houston’s first two picks of Day 3, Texas edge defender Charles Omenihu at No. 161 and Central Michigan cornerback Xavier Crawford at No. 195, were both great, great value picks. Omenihu was much more of a run-first player at Texas, but he flashed pass-rushing ability when he was given the green light to attack. Not many pass-rushers have his combination of size, length and athleticism. Crawford earned an impressive 82.4 coverage grade across his 331 coverage snaps in 2018, allowing just 15 receptions from 38 targets for 162 yards and one touchdown in the process.
DRAFT GRADE: BELOW AVERAGE
On their podcast they were more positive. They said Tytus was a reach but not that big of a reach. They basically liked all the picks, only downside was the slight reaching and they need time to develop.
A combination of positional value and low-floor potential in the NFL left San Diego State tight end Kahale Warring on the outside looking in regards to our final top-250 list.
***
So PFF rates Warring as a prospect who should be signed as an undrafted rookie free agent but for the Texans in essence he's the reason we drafted Howard instead of Dillard, i.e. with the 23rd pick & our third round pick we could have accepted the Ravens invitation to outbid Philly for Dillard.
But the Warring pick IMO is so Bill O'Brien, and the GM accommodating the coach in his quest for Gronk-type player.
***
So PFF rates Warring as a prospect who should be signed as an undrafted rookie free agent but for the Texans in essence he's the reason we drafted Howard instead of Dillard, i.e. with the 23rd pick & our third round pick we could have accepted the Ravens invitation to outbid Philly for Dillard.
But the Warring pick IMO is so Bill O'Brien, and the GM accommodating the coach in his quest for Gronk-type player.
I could be wrong, but I felt this was truly bpa. Last year the Jordans we're the OBrien BS
Hey man I might very well be the one who's wrong, and I hope I am and Warring works out and evolves into becomes a big-time TE for the Texans.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Draft values before players even have a chance to perform in the nfl are futile. Some writer somewhere has an assignment and writes an article based on opinion. Grades are based on perceptions and perceptions change after the draft.
Was Howard a reach? How many offensive linemen graded as first rounders slipped to the 2nd? Pre draft, people here would've been happy greedy William's lasted till our pick. With hindsight, we know he's a reach in the first and now people act like they knew all along.
Draft grades are all bs. Let's see what they do on the field.
Was Howard a reach? How many offensive linemen graded as first rounders slipped to the 2nd? Pre draft, people here would've been happy greedy William's lasted till our pick. With hindsight, we know he's a reach in the first and now people act like they knew all along.
Draft grades are all bs. Let's see what they do on the field.
TE was a massive need position after 2017..the only NFL roster level guy was Ryan Griffin and he is/was replacement level. The Jordans were need picks, much more than actually discussed on this board for some reason.
Warring is more a Texans specific board metrics BPA, although the Texans still had an underrated TE need that's been covered by the flashes of potential from the Jordans.
Even though they have shaky histories themselves, Henderson and Kalil are the veteran stopgaps and starting obstacles for the two rookies to overcome. Imo, Davenport is going to have to play clearly better (probably mid-level OLT good) than any of the four other OT to maintain a roster spot. Davenport seems to fit less to the BOgaine physical metric and position flex than any of the other four...all my opinion of course.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
You mean you weren't impressed when he was placed at RT?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You mean you weren't impressed when he was placed at RT?
When he gave up the majority of his sacks? - no. Testament to not trying to play jack-of-no-trade. Square on OB & Devlin fail.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I hope you know that I was being facetious.