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State of the O-line

TheKDog said:
Why do you think so highly of Gaine?
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Gaine executed the best draft in Texans history (IMHO) with both hands tied behind his back. There's a good chance every pick from the 2018 draft could stick with he team. He did as best as he could with off-season free agency while keeping the cap in play for this season.

If he hits this off-season and draft, then I only hope OB and his staff makes Gaine's success pay off on the field. If OB doesn't, my biggest concern in regards to Gaine, can he get Cal behind him when he proposes letting OB and the staff go. My second concern, who would Gaine replace him with?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If he hits this off-season and draft, then I only hope OB and his staff makes Gaine's success pay off on the field. If OB doesn't, my biggest concern in regards to Gaine, can he get Cal behind him when he proposes letting OB and the staff go. My second concern, who would Gaine replace him with?
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If OB doesn't do his job, how will you know that Gaine did his?
 
JB said:
If OB doesn't do his job, how will you know that Gaine did his?
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JB, b/c OB didn't do a great job with the offense....were you not capable of determining that Watson, Hopkins are very good or possibly even great? I think the Jordan's can be better than expected even if OB didn't fully utilize them. So, to answer your question.....I'll know that Gaine did his job when I see the talent hit the field. By the same token, I'll know if OB and his offensive staff are taking steps forward with the talent given or steps backwards.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
JB, b/c OB didn't do a great job with the offense....were you not capable of determining that Watson, Hopkins are very good or possibly even great? I think the Jordan's can be better than expected even if OB didn't fully utilize them. So, to answer your question.....I'll know that Gaine did his job when I see the talent hit the field. By the same token, I'll know if OB and his offensive staff are taking steps forward with the talent given or steps backwards.
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We thought he did his job getting Fulton/Kelemente/Henderson/Rankin for the OL but that didn't work so well. Jordan's seem to be a good addition, but didn't make much difference. How can you tell he nails the off-season and draft if the team is not successful?
 
JB said:
We thought he did his job getting Fulton/Kelemente/Henderson/Rankin for the OL but that didn't work so well. Jordan's seem to be a good addition, but didn't make much difference. How can you tell he nails the off-season and draft if the team is not successful?
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Henderson got injured. Rankin missed the entire off-season and was then placed at the wrong position. Fulton played fine until injured. Kelemete was a disappointment when given his first chance to start but was an above average backup with the Saints. I think this unit as a whole has good talent but is severely under coached. I could say Devlin is the culprit but has OB ever really settled into exactly what the teams offensive identity is?

Jordan's failure to impress you was due to OB not using them....instead, he was much more eager to continue and start Griffin. We're you happy with the fact that Griffin was seeing the field so often?

No....Gaine's was nails, I'd be a lot happier if OB and his staff were nails as well.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Henderson got injured. Rankin missed the entire off-season and was then placed at the wrong position. Fulton played fine until injured. Kelemete was a disappointment when given his first chance to start but was an above average backup with the Saints. I think this unit as a whole has good talent but is severely under coached. I could say Devlin is the culprit but has OB ever really settled into exactly what the teams offensive identity is?

Jordan's failure to impress you was due to OB not using them....instead, he was much more eager to continue and start Griffin. We're you happy with the fact that Griffin was seeing the field so often?

No....Gaine's was nails, I'd be a lot happier if OB and his staff were nails as well.
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I agree Gaine nailed the last off season with what he had to work with.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Gaine executed the best draft in Texans history (IMHO) with both hands tied behind his back. There's a good chance every pick from the 2018 draft could stick with he team. He did as best as he could with off-season free agency while keeping the cap in play for this season.

If he hits this off-season and draft, then I only hope OB and his staff makes Gaine's success pay off on the field. If OB doesn't, my biggest concern in regards to Gaine, can he get Cal behind him when he proposes letting OB and the staff go. My second concern, who would Gaine replace him with?
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If we move on from O'Brien, Gaine should go too. IMO he's part of the regime. He was here a few years under Rick as well and O'Brien is the one who really brought him back. Start over with alignment from the beginning.
 
TheKDog said:
If we move on from O'Brien, Gaine should go too. IMO he's part of the regime. He was here a few years under Rick as well and O'Brien is the one who really brought him back. Start over with alignment from the beginning.
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If Gaine's nails the off-season and draft this year and OB and his staff go though the same mess we saw offensively this past season and the Texans wind up a sub .500 team.....you want to lose both Gaine and OB?

I'd be interested to see what the rest of the TT family think about this.
 
TheKDog said:
Why do you think so highly of Gaine?
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He found a pro bowl level safety in the 3rd Rd .He signed a pro bowl level safety in fa. He fixed the ST's. He drafted the most talented slot Wr this team has ever had. How many slot WR'S have the Texans had that have caught 10 passes in a game, much less a playoff game? He drafted 2 young promising TE's.

And he did this without a first or second Rd draft pick.

You tell me what's not to like?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If Gaine's nails the off-season and draft this year and OB and his staff go though the same mess we saw offensively this past season and the Texans wind up a sub .500 team.....you want to lose both Gaine and OB?

I'd be interested to see what the rest of the TT family think about this.
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And do the whole misaligned thing again?
 
steelbtexan said:
He found a pro bowl level safety in the 3rd Rd .He signed a pro bowl level safety in fa. He fixed the ST's. He drafted the most talented slot Wr this team has ever had. How many slot WR'S have the Texans had that have caught 10 passes in a game, much less a playoff game? He drafted 2 young promising TE's.

And he did this without a first or second Rd draft pick.

You tell me what's not to like?
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Reid is good, probably the guy crennel wanted. The others are tbd. The #1 area to fix is still terrible.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If Gaine's nails the off-season and draft this year and OB and his staff go though the same mess we saw offensively this past season and the Texans wind up a sub .500 team.....you want to lose both Gaine and OB?

I'd be interested to see what the rest of the TT family think about this.
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Nope, if this happens and the team stays healthy, I can almost guarantee you that they won't finish below .500.

What would you do if Gaine nails this offseason but Watson gets hurt and they finish below .500? Which is a much more likely scenario.
 
Another factor is an NFL truism that makes a lot of sense and is something the Texans will have to deal with next year: Zone blocking schemes take chemistry and time to grow that chemistry. It could be argued that when Martin passed off Steve McLendon up there, that he thought Kelemete would be in good position to make that play. That’s the kind of sixth sense about teammates that grows over time. The Texans core offensive line (Kendall Lamm, Julian Davenport, Kelemete, Zach Fulton, and Martin) had barely played together at all before 2018.

Now Houston is faced with another offseason that seems likely to be rife with change. I think Fulton is safe because his contract tells us he is. (He would save the team almost no money on being cut.) My thinking is that Davenport will not be an unquestioned starter, and that Martinas Rankin will get a long look at left guard. Kendall Lamm and Seantrel Henderson are likely to be part of a battle to start at right tackle. This is before we even get into how free agency and the draft will play out and who might be added besides a Davenport challenger.

I think as the Texans head into next offseason, they need to be a little more cautious with just how much zone they run. The personnel in place — Lamar Miller notwithstanding — wasn’t great at it, and it’s likely that the offensive line will all be learning how to play with each other again in 2019. This unit had most of it’s success running with Power and using Watson to get a numbers advantage. That’s where I’d build the run game to start with, mixing in zone on a good basis to get a read on how the players are gelling.

Unfortunately, this coaching staff clings stubbornly to what it wants to do, and it would not surprise me if I’m writing this same post somewhere next offseason. The big key is Martin — if he’s the linchpin of this offensive line, the Texans need a resurgent 2019 season from him in the worst way.

https://www.riversmccown.com/2019/0...heir-running-offense-more-consistent-in-2019/
 
JB said:
Yep, it takes 3 years to fully evaluate a draft class. KJo looked real promising as a rookie... so did Griffin. DB & KJax took a lot of heat as rookies. Good or bad, 1 year is too early to judge
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There's no denying the last class looks promising. Unless you hate BOB so much that you hate Gaine by abstention.

Not speaking of you, you've been very fair in your criticisms.
 
steelbtexan said:
There's no denying the last class looks promising. Unless you hate BOB so much that you hate Gaine by abstention.

Not speaking of you, you've been very fair in your criticisms.
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Does indeed look promising, but...
 
steelbtexan said:
I expected to get an answer to this.
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Could be a lot of reasons.

Maybe there are limited resources and they used picks for other needs? Maybe no pro bowl safeties were available? He has consistently built top 10 defenses here, even with Rick Smith. Found good young linebackers and defensive linemen and developed them.

Unlike the offense, the defense is in good shape
 
TheKDog said:
Could be a lot of reasons.

Maybe there are limited resources and they used picks for other needs? Maybe no pro bowl safeties were available? He has consistently built top 10 defenses here, even with Rick Smith. Found good young linebackers and defensive linemen and developed them.

Unlike the offense, the defense is in good shape
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The only fault I've found in RC's defense.....they never seem to stop anyone when it's needed the most. Other than that, usually a top 10 defense.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The only fault I've found in RC's defense.....they never seem to stop anyone when it's needed the most. Other than that, usually a top 10 defense.
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Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. I like our defense, mostly, but I've said before with all we have invested in them we should be scaring the hell out of other teams and winning on defense alone but when it really matters they get schooled. You can look at ranking till you're blue in the face but if you can't pull off the big play when it matters most it doesn't matter if you are ranked 1 or 32 you are still going home. Look at KC this year, ranked high on most categories but by the end of their game with the Pats it didn't matter and no one cared.
 
maverick512000 said:
Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. I like our defense, mostly, but I've said before with all we have invested in them we should be scaring the hell out of other teams and winning on defense alone but when it really matters they get schooled. You can look at ranking till you're blue in the face but if you can't pull off the big play when it matters most it doesn't matter if you are ranked 1 or 32 you are still going home. Look at KC this year, ranked high on most categories but by the end of their game with the Pats it didn't matter and no one cared.
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KC was not a highly ranked defense
 
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TheKDog said:
KC was not a highly ranked defense
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Did I say they were? I said they were ranked high on most things. Perhaps I should have clarified that most of those things were offense but for not having invested near the capital in defense we have we weren't ranked much higher than them in several key categories once you start breaking it down. Besides you are missing my point which was ranking don't tell the whole story.
 
maverick512000 said:
Did I say they were? I said they were ranked high on most things. Perhaps I should have clarified that most of those things were offense but for not having invested near the capital in defense we have we weren't ranked much higher than them in several key categories once you start breaking it down. Besides you are missing my point which was ranking don't tell the whole story.
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Ah ok, I thought you were referring to the defense. Yes the offense was definitely ranked high.
 
JB said:
Hope that turns into a good thing
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He sucked, but he was the best healthy RT on the team. He started 13 games. I guess they are going to rely on Seantrel? Because I don't think there's anyone else currently on the roster to take that spot. It's weird they re-signed Seantrel and not him, but maybe there's something else going on.
 
TheKDog said:
Could be a lot of reasons.

Maybe there are limited resources and they used picks for other needs? Maybe no pro bowl safeties were available? He has consistently built top 10 defenses here, even with Rick Smith. Found good young linebackers and defensive linemen and developed them.

Unlike the offense, the defense is in good shape
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5 years, just admit that this GM will be better at finding talent than the old GM. Not that, that's saying much.

I will give you this you're excellent at sticking to your narrative even if the facts say otherwise. SMH
 
TheKDog said:
He sucked, but he was the best healthy RT on the team. He started 13 games. I guess they are going to rely on Seantrel? Because I don't think there's anyone else currently on the roster to take that spot. It's weird they re-signed Seantrel and not him, but maybe there's something else going on.
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Maybe there is someone opening in F/A that they want to take a run at? I don't know, I can't think of any that really seem to be a big improvement. Or maybe thats target number 1 in the draft, still don't like the idea of a rookie at that spot day 1 though.
 
TheKDog said:
He sucked, but he was the best healthy RT on the team. He started 13 games. I guess they are going to rely on Seantrel? Because I don't think there's anyone else currently on the roster to take that spot. It's weird they re-signed Seantrel and not him, but maybe there's something else going on.
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Yeah they will replace him before OTA's ... they probably had someone on the PS that could
 
steelbtexan said:
5 years, just admit that this GM will be better at finding talent than the old GM. Not that, that's saying much.

I will give you this you're excellent at sticking to your narrative even if the facts say otherwise. SMH
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Rick just got the guys kubiak and Wade wanted until he went rogue with the Shaub extension.

It will be the same deal with Gaine, which is why the defense will continue to be good and the offense will continue to suck.

The "interview process" for gm just proved hes OBriens yes man.
 
TheKDog said:
Rick just got the guys kubiak and Wade wanted until he went rogue with the Shaub extension.

It will be the same deal with Gaine, which is why the defense will continue to be good and the offense will continue to suck.

The "interview process" for gm just proved he's OBriens yes man.
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Care to divulge what you know about this?

I don't understand your reasoning.

:coffee:
 
TheKDog said:
Rick just got the guys kubiak and Wade wanted until he went rogue with the Shaub extension.

It will be the same deal with Gaine, which is why the defense will continue to be good and the offense will continue to suck.

The "interview process" for gm just proved hes OBriens yes man.
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So in other words Smith was Kubiak/Wade's yes man until he wasn't?

You don't know this at all.
 
TheKDog said:
He sucked, but he was the best healthy RT on the team. He started 13 games. I guess they are going to rely on Seantrel? Because I don't think there's anyone else currently on the roster to take that spot. It's weird they re-signed Seantrel and not him, but maybe there's something else going on.
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There is, if healthy Seantrel is better than Lamm. I think there will be 2 new OT's drafted or signed in FA and Davenport/Henderson will be kept around to compete with them.
 
maverick512000 said:
Maybe there is someone opening in F/A that they want to take a run at? I don't know, I can't think of any that really seem to be a big improvement. Or maybe thats target number 1 in the draft, still don't like the idea of a rookie at that spot day 1 though.
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I've been reading the Pats boards to see what they thought of Trent Brown. They dont want to lose him, but think they probably will let him walk. Gaine should be all over that. There's some risk involved due to weight issues. But he has very few injury issues as far as I'm aware.

The risk is how's he going to play after he gets paid. But that's a risk with any FA that is signed to big $$$$. Sign Brown and draft a rookie OT in the 1st and the OT riddle for the next 5 or 6 yrs.
 
TheKDog said:
They interviewed 2 people. One to satisfy the Rooney rule. O'Brien wanted Gaine the whole time.
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does sound fishy.
I've seen this in industry when the higher-ups have made their minds up on who they favor for an opening but have to show HR they tried to be "fair" and "inclusive".

And, to be fair, this isn't always a bad thing IF the higher-ups have a good eye for talent.

 
dream_team said:
But isn't that the whole point of the quick completions, to hide the fact your OL isn't very good? The tackles typically cut block, and the guards/centers just have to hold on for 1-2 seconds. If our OL can't simply execute that, then we have 8-9 guys that don't even deserve to be in the league.
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What's really bad, regardless how bad the OL was, not one was benched for poor performance. Not one OLman was brought in to challenge any of our "starters" or improve the bottom of our roster.

Either Gaine didn't notice, or he believed the problem wasn't a talent issue.
 
Carr Bombed said:
The biggest change was the RPO became almost nonexistent, despite Watson having so much success with it his rookie season.. it wasn't the same offense we ran during Watson's rookie season.
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It looked to me that Watson refused to keep the ball even when the read suggested he should. Late in the season there was a couple of games when he did keep it & had some big runs.

I don't know if that was Watson not comfortable with his ACL or his coach not comfortable with his ACL.

My biggest disappointment is that we haven't been able to incorporate the "passing" part of "RPO"
 
Mr teX said:
Davenport doesn’t seem to be sticking out in my mind as still not being an issue at times.
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As bad as our tackles were I'm shocked most are so quite about the interior of our line. Regardless what their PFF grades were, those guys were a big reason for our poor OL. Especially in the run game.

It's not a good thing when Von Miller & Bradley Chubb are beating your inexperienced, late round/udfa tackles, but when you have noName after noName beating your 2nd round pick & prized FAs... it should generate some concern
 
ObsiWan said:
does sound fishy.
I've seen this in industry when the higher-ups have made their minds up on who they favor for an opening but have to show HR they tried to be "fair" and "inclusive".

And, to be fair, this isn't always a bad thing IF the higher-ups have a good eye for talent.
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They also did this when they hired O'Brien.
 
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