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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
There may be only one guy that thinks Clowney is worth as much as Mack... Did Rick Smith get another job?
Yeah I see all this trade Clowney talk and I'm all for it for the right price - but what is the right price?Obviously he should command a mid first, but will any team do that in this DL rich draft? Bad timing for the Texans unfortunately.
 

gafftop

All Pro
I have no idea what Clowney can bring in a trade. Maybe depends on how many teams are interested.

But people can't both want to get rid of Clowney (because he's about to break down, because he's lazy, because he always jumps, or whatever other reason) and expect to get a king's ransom for him.
I agree. I don't think you get a 1 for him unless a very low 1. Probably a 2 if LUCKY. I hope I am wrong. Maybe Gruden ...
 

corry

Waterboy
Yeah I see all this trade Clowney talk and I'm all for it for the right price - but what is the right price?Obviously he should command a mid first, but will any team do that in this DL rich draft? Bad timing for the Texans unfortunately.
Green Bay or Carolina would be the first team I would call.

Clowney for the 11th overall(Can't waste Rodgers Prime).
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
I think all signs are pointing to lets deal clown and hope ENjifor and whitney can hold it down

and hope a team gives us a good deal

if we purge the DC coaches and racks and switch back to a 4-3 and 5-2 I dont know would clown work better has a DE ..???
I would rather trade Mercilous
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Exactly if the TFL or Sack was on 3rd down and forced a punt that is a much larger impact than a 5 yd penalty on 2nd down.

Yeah let's cut down on the penalties - but using is as a nill yardage measure is half the story at best.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-third-down-conversion-pct

The Texans were 26th in 3rd down defense, and we gave up a ton of first downs in 3rd and long situations, when you know they have to throw. I don’t remember him getting many TFLs or sacks on 3rd down. As ColeThornton mentioned, lets not forget the 15yds unsportsmanlike penalty against Tenn that put them in field goal range or the offsides on 3rd and 3 against Indy at home that sealed the game for them. Maybe they convert that anyway, but we’ll never know. We held them in Indy on 4th and 3 to win that game. There was also the unsportsmanlike penalty for leading with his head against Foles which added 15 yds to the end of a long completion to help put them in FG range to win that game. Admittedly, that was a tough play because it happened so quickly, but you have to know as a defender if you lead with your head on a QB they’re going to call that every time
 

gs27

Veteran
I would rather trade Mercilous
I would be happy with a 2nd for Clowney. Between the penalties and big plays we give up when he goes inside and leaves the flat exposed without outside help (4 times against the Colts), we are better without him. The last year Mercilus played the jack he had 12 sacks but since then he has been playing out of position as a more traditional strongside linebacker with Clowney healthy. We could resign Mercilus to an extension for cheap right now then put him back to the position he excels at.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-third-down-conversion-pct

The Texans were 26th in 3rd down defense, and we gave up a ton of first downs in 3rd and long situations, when you know they have to throw. I don’t remember him getting many TFLs or sacks on 3rd down. As ColeThornton mentioned, lets not forget the 15yds unsportsmanlike penalty against Tenn that put them in field goal range or the offsides on 3rd and 3 against Indy at home that sealed the game for them. Maybe they convert that anyway, but we’ll never know. We held them in Indy on 4th and 3 to win that game. There was also the unsportsmanlike penalty for leading with his head against Foles which added 15 yds to the end of a long completion to help put them in FG range to win that game. Admittedly, that was a tough play because it happened so quickly, but you have to know as a defender if you lead with your head on a QB they’re going to call that every time
The game against the Tacks kept them from getting the 2nd seed and from playing next week. Think about that for a minute.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
They could really use an inside guy to rush the passer. But protecting Watson is job #1. Giving up 62 sacks again doesn't bode well for Watson's future health.
I think we have the talent there if some run blitz and zone blitz were thrown in early. RAC has gotten very conservative the past seaon. Even more so than normal. Texans don't have great talent there, but solid
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
I think we have the talent there if some run blitz and zone blitz were thrown in early. RAC has gotten very conservative the past seaon. Even more so than normal. Texans don't have great talent there, but solid
I think the Texans play calling on both sides of the ball have gotten stale . They remind me of the Dan Reeves Broncos where they try to keep the game close and then let Elway win it at the end . That can get you so far but when you go against a team who rack up points , you're screwed .
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think the Texans play calling on both sides of the ball have gotten stale . They remind me of the Dan Reeves Broncos where they try to keep the game close and then let Elway win it at the end . That can get you so far but when you go against a team who rack up points , you're screwed .
True,

I'm hoping they can fix the offense this offseason.

With that said, They did score the 2nd most points in franchise history.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
I think the Texans play calling on both sides of the ball have gotten stale . They remind me of the Dan Reeves Broncos where they try to keep the game close and then let Elway win it at the end . That can get you so far but when you go against a team who rack up points , you're screwed .
yeah, bend but don't break and conservative don't work when it's broken
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
If we could get a top 10 first for Clowney we should take it. OL and CB are more important right now.
You guys want to trade away Clowney with all of Watts injury history and he will be 30 next year. On top of that Mercilous sucks. You’re not getting a top ten pick in a heavy defensive draft. Possibly the most top loaded defensive draft in a decade.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
You guys want to trade away Clowney with all of Watts injury history and he will be 30 next year. On top of that Mercilous sucks. You’re not getting a top ten pick in a heavy defensive draft. Possibly the most top loaded defensive draft in a decade.
They'd be better off going to a 4-3 and putting Clowney's hand in the dirt .
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
yeah, bend but don't break and conservative don't work when it's broken
Not to mention he doesn’t rotate front seven enough. We consistently give up 12, 14, 16 play drives which kills front seven guys legs.
And for the love of god why would you play so far off WRs with our front seven. We should be jamming WRs and attacking OLs with blitz packages and forcing opposing QBs to get the ball out fast.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
That's horrible for his knee and Clowney likes standing.
I know it sounds crazy but I suggest this when we drafted him. Put him at middle linebacker. He’s just not an edge guy
He’s just not an edge guy. he’s never going to be someone that beat tackles around the edge. With his athleticism he could be dominant Rushing up the middle.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
I know it sounds crazy but I suggest this when we drafted him. Put him at middle linebacker. He’s just not an edge guy
He’s just not an edge guy. he’s never going to be someone that beat tackles around the edge. With his athleticism he could be dominant Rushing up the middle.
Don't really agree about him not being an edge guy. He has 18.5 sacks, 37 TFLs & 42 QB hits from the edge the last 2 seasons.

Having said that, I don't see putting him in the middle as crazy at all. He's great at shooting interior gaps.
 

ColeThornton

Waterboy
Yeah I see all this trade Clowney talk and I'm all for it for the right price - but what is the right price?Obviously he should command a mid first, but will any team do that in this DL rich draft? Bad timing for the Texans unfortunately.
Since this is a DL rich draft it's even more reason to try and do it. Let someone else pay Clowney and draft a guy with a new rookie contract. The Texans have so many needs in so many areas, They can't afford to have so much salary tied up in two defensive linemen.

And to think a couple seasons ago we were hearing we were just a QB away...
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Clowney was in get money mode this year...trying to have that double digit sack season that has reportedly been a sticking point in negotiations.

I also think Clowney should be used in a wide 9. no real pass rush moves needed when you're running virtually a straight line to the qb.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The right deal is anything over what we would get in compensation. What another waste of a 1.1 if not worth resigning and you only get compensation.
3 time consecutive pro bowler will get us at least a first and if bidding war starts and it could, a lot more. 9 sacks, 16 TFL, 47 tackles with 39 solo,1 FF, 3 recovered fumbles-1TD, and 21 QB hits is worth a lot more than compensation. He is worth resigning only question is how much. Not to forget these stats were with JJ on field getting his.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Don't really agree about him not being an edge guy. He has 18.5 sacks, 37 TFLs & 42 QB hits from the edge the last 2 seasons.

Having said that, I don't see putting him in the middle as crazy at all. He's great at shooting interior gaps.
A lot of those sacks came from him being lined up in the middle and shooting the gaP.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Since this is a DL rich draft it's even more reason to try and do it. Let someone else pay Clowney and draft a guy with a new rookie contract. The Texans have so many needs in so many areas, They can't afford to have so much salary tied up in two defensive linemen.

And to think a couple seasons ago we were hearing we were just a QB away...
And how much do you think a DL rich draft does for his trade value?
 

ColeThornton

Waterboy
And how much do you think a DL rich draft does for his trade value?
My post was in regard to this very point. While a DL rich draft lowers his trade value it also makes it easier for the Texans to replace him and at a much lower cost. Why would no one want a still young three time pro bowler over a shot at a rookie, unless the league thinks he's over rated?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Well, Clowney is a three time pro bowler, so there will be a market for him.

I would franchise him.
My post was in regard to this very point. While a DL rich draft lowers his trade value it also makes it easier for the Texans to replace him and at a much lower cost. Why would no one want a still young three time pro bowler over a shot at a rookie, unless the league thinks he's over rated?
Of course there will be some market for him. Where was that in question?

My point being that it's the same market that is aware of all the same variable as us.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
It's nothing that most want to admit, but neither Clowney nor Watt can do the same things that they could do pre-injuries.
Clowney - can't really give an opinion, never 'really' caught a glimpse of what he could have been as he was injured in the NFL before he ever really got going, and college was a mixed bag of just a guy and holy sh1t.

Watt - I'll buy that, he isn't what he was 3 years ago, but when you fall from being in the conversation of greatest of all time to 'merely' being great - it's still pretty good. As a fan, it would have been nice to see what a mostly injury-free career would have looked like for him. But if I was a DC anywhere, I'd still want him on my team.
 

OptimisticTexan

2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
And how much do you think a DL rich draft does for his trade value?
Doesn't hurt it at all.....last I remember, none of those college prospects have 3 Pro Bowl selections to their name. Why does any team trade for solid veterans? I would classify Clowney as a "cap" casualty and let's see what the market bears.
 

OptimisticTexan

2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Watt just became the 2nd person in NFL history to have 4 15+ sack seasons (Reggie White had 5 and 2 of those came at an older age than JJ). Methinks some look with an overly critical post-injury eye. Somewhat akin to those who see an age on a bio and automatically see slowing.
I think Watt had one heck of a return from injury season. So much so that I don't think he'll be slowing down, he's just going to get better or start to look a lot more like himself pre-injury. This guy is a beast and he's good to his body......he'll be burden for offfenses once again in 2019.
 
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Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Doesn't hurt it at all.....last I remember, none of those college prospects have 3 Pro Bowl selections to their name. Why does any team trade for solid veterans? I would classify Clowney as a "cap" casualty and let's see what the market bears.
Sure it does.

And then you go on to only list one of Clowney's 'pros' without listing his 'cons' that the incoming prospects don't necessarily have, such as a massive upcoming contract or a lengthy injury history. Pretty disingenuous to the point, really.
 
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IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Watt just became the 2nd person in NFL history to have 4 15+ sack seasons (Reggie White had 5 and 2 of those came at an older age than JJ). Methinks some look with an overly critical post-injury eye. Somewhat akin to those who see an age on a bio and automatically see slowing.
Yep Watt just had another remarkable season especially coming off of his injuries as he did with 16 sacks, finishing second in that department behind only Mr all-universe defensive lineman, LA's Donald.
On the other hand there were 20 some players who got more sacks in the '18 season than JD did so clearly this indicates there's only one elite player here.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
That ranks on sacks only. How many of them bested Clowney on TFLs?
Among all the performance indices for pretty much all front 7 defensive players sacks is the most important, not just the most glamorous but also the one that compensation is based on most of all. If you think I'm wrong about I'm sure you will let me know ?
 
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