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Game 00...A New Start...The Off-Season!

JamTex

JamTex

Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
On December 31st at approximately 3:15 pm central time, the Texans began to take on the Off-Season without GM Rick Smith at NRG Stadium and the Texans corporate offices. The off-season will be aired locally on houstontexans.com and nationally on nfl.com.
What we have all been waiting for is an off-season without Rick Smith. Lets hope that Bill O'brien and who ever steps in as general manager can handle the off-season starting with free agency and continuing on into the draft and supplements.
Let's not think about the idea that Smith might be back in a year. Lets just look forward to being without him for this year.
Let's hope that O'brien and the stand in GM can make something out of the debacle that Smith left them.
Looks like most of the work will need to be done in free agency since Smith squandered the first 2 rounds of the draft because of that Osweiler character.
Lets hope that they can build a team that we'll be proud of and can enjoy watching once again.
Now on to the Off-Season!

GO TEXANS!
 
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infantrycak said:
For the love of all that's holy the Texans gave up the 2nd round pick related to Oz. No 1st round pick was involved.

The 1st was to get Watson.
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The Texans wouldn't have needed Watson if they hadn't bombed so badly on Osweiler. They had to move up to get Watson because they had no options on the roster. Getting rid of Osweiler with that second round pick because of the disaster he was caused them to have to give the first round pick to get Watson. Aside from that, there have been multiple drafts Smith passed up good quarterbacks to take the "best player available". Not only that, Smith has only ever gotten 1 good offensive lineman. Brown. Other then that he had whiffed on building the o-line. Let's not even start on the secondary. I'm just glad Smith is gone. At least for the time being.
 
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JamTex said:
Let's not think about the idea that Smith might be back in a year. Lets just look forward to being without him for this year.
Let's hope that O'brien and the stand in GM can make something out of the debacle that Smith left them.
Looks like most of the work will need to be done in free agency since Smith squandered the first 2 rounds of the draft because of that Osweiler character.

GO TEXANS!
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Yep. And we've already fired some worthless coaches, so things are looking up. Maybe, or hopefully at any rate.
 
JamTex said:
Not only that, Smith has only ever gotten 1 good offensive lineman. Brown. Other then that he had whiffed on building the o-line. Let's not even start on the secondary. I'm just glad Smith is gone. At least for the time being.
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What about Wade Smith, Chris Myers, Briesel, Eric Winston, Brandon Brooks? There was a period there where we had arguably the best OL in the game.
 
JamTex said:
The Texans wouldn't have needed Watson if they hadn't bombed so badly on Osweiler. They had to move up to get Watson because they had no options on the roster. Getting rid of Osweiler with that second round pick because of the disaster he was caused them to have to give the first round pick to get Watson. Aside from that, there have been multiple drafts Smith passed up good quarterbacks to take the "best player available". Not only that, Smith has only ever gotten 1 good offensive lineman. Brown. Other then that he had whiffed on building the o-line. Let's not even start on the secondary. I'm just glad Smith is gone. At least for the time being.
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But McNair didn't put his foot down until after the '15 season... it was Oswseiler or Lynch. They took the path of least resistance. Os gave them a chance, Lynch practically none
 
infantrycak said:
OB doesn't want ZBS.
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It might be time for O'Brien to look at a ZBS. He's in an OL crisis with no immediate answers readily available from the FA market. Not to mention, most of the college OL entering the draft might make quicker transition into a ZBS versus a power system. O'Brien altered his playbook to accomondate Watson's comfort level. The offensive system that worked with Watson might be what benefits the Texans future OL as well. Just a thought.
 
I agree but don't think OB does. Despite a few weeks of adaptation with Watson, OB has not demonstrated flexibility during his tenure. The only time we have seen any is when we are in crisis mode because the QB doesn't know 'the system' well enough.
 
infantrycak said:
I agree but don't think OB does. Despite a few weeks of adaptation with Watson, OB has not demonstrated flexibility during his tenure. The only time we have seen any is when we are in crisis mode because the QB doesn't know 'the system' well enough.
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...and this is exactly why I agreed with you, when you mentioned Frank Reich's name for the OC position. I could see Watson becoming an absolute beast in that style of offense. It plays into every strength he has displayed in 7 short games...even though, a lot of what he displayed was an improvised, run for my life while keeping my eyes downfield sort of offense, it was successful. I'd really like the idea of speeding that up with some no-huddle sprinkled in...so it kept defensive substitutions to a minimum.
 
dream_team said:
What about Wade Smith, Chris Myers, Briesel, Eric Winston, Brandon Brooks? There was a period there where we had arguably the best OL in the game.
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I said he whiffed on building the o-line. That means he had a chance to keep the linemen you just mentioned, but they all left after those couple of years for bigger and better contracts. So yes. He whiffed on the o-line except for keeping Brown as long as he did.
 
edo783 said:
Really to bad we don't have a 1 or a 2 pick. They will get a real good look at some quality players. Some will fall and hopefully a couple of them are OTs and guards. Fingers crossed.
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If they see someone they really like and know he will be gone in the 1st or 2nd rd they might package some of their picks and move up. We just don't know what the new GM and BOB will do during the Draft!
 
Insideop said:
If they see someone they really like and know he will be gone in the 1st or 2nd rd they might package some of their picks and move up. We just don't know what the new GM and BOB will do during the Draft!
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If Rick was running it, we’d trade all our picks to move in to the 1st and Belichick would jump us and get our guy.
 
edo783 said:
Really to bad we don't have a 1 or a 2 pick. They will get a real good look at some quality players. Some will fall and hopefully a couple of them are OTs and guards. Fingers crossed.
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The later picks by the Texans are perfect for the senior bowl. the elite guys available at pick 1.4 generally don't play in that game. The mid to late rounds guys that have been trouble for the team get the majority of the snaps and the Texans get the up close practice time to separate some of the guys in that area.

for me, I want the Texans to focus on getting those picks right because they have a quality and quantity problem and really don't want them to trade up, but attempt to get the same level of player in the 3rd/4th that would be there in the late 2nd.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The later picks by the Texans are perfect for the senior bowl. the elite guys available at pick 1.4 generally don't play in that game. The mid to late rounds guys that have been trouble for the team get the majority of the snaps and the Texans get the up close practice time to separate some of the guys in that area.

for me, I want the Texans to focus on getting those picks right because they have a quality and quantity problem and really don't want them to trade up, but attempt to get the same level of player in the 3rd/4th that would be there in the late 2nd.
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If this is the case then getting a GM like Cesario from NE would be preferable since he's been with Belichick who has a reputation (true or not) for getting good value players in later rounds.
 
I like ATs thought process on the mid round guys coming from the Senior Bowl. Given that, I like Caseio's resume and I think he could be a real solid GM for us and still be able to get along with our tea pot.
 
JB said:
I can... play action roll outs would be deadly, and running game would be much better
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Yep. Basically what I've been saying to those not wanting to rock the boat with what Watson accomplished under OB. In those 6 games it's never been better, but imagine Watson in a real NFL offense.
 
Speedy said:
Yep. Basically what I've been saying to those not wanting to rock the boat with what Watson accomplished under OB. In those 6 games it's never been better, but imagine Watson in a real NFL offense.
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The 6 games of DW4 and BOB looked like a real offense to me, even behind a neglected/putrid OL. Give a healthy DW4/BOB an avg OL and you will see something special.
 
infantrycak said:
For the love of all that's holy the Texans gave up the 2nd round pick related to Oz. No 1st round pick was involved.

The 1st was to get Watson.
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Are you implying that giving up a 2nd round pick for giving a player away is a good deal. I sure don't think so! DW and the 1rst we lost to move up to get get him should have been a 1rst for the 2019 season given we had no 2nd round picks.
 
Corrosion said:
I don't think he has a scheme .... at all.

Watson just made those plays the waterboy drew up on the sidelines look good .... while OB took all the credit.
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No, OB did way better than the waterbody would have done. Not every successful pass or run by DW4 was due to broken plays that he made look good. OB called a much more wide open game than some of you want to give him credit for.
 
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Speedy said:
Yep. Basically what I've been saying to those not wanting to rock the boat with what Watson accomplished under OB. In those 6 games it's never been better, but imagine Watson in a real NFL offense.
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New England seems to me to be a "real" offense, and I also feel there is some revisionist history with the rookie Watson era where the Texans were putting a measly ~35+ points a game on average.

Do I think he would do well in baby Shanny's offense - 100% yes. But he was clearly shining in OB's version of the NE offense too, and OB suddenly became a creative offensive mind.

I think based on what we saw OB deserves an offseason to both work on some new wrinkles to keep the Defense's honest and to hone Watson's skill set to his preffered offense. And lastly, OB needs to hone himself. Hopefully he will learn from his mistakes.

If 2018 doesn't work and OB hasn't fixed most of his own (at times) absurd issues, I'm all aboard the fire OB train. But for now - I think OB deserves an honest shot to have a full offseason and 2018 season with Watson.
 
Texans Final 2017 PFF Scores Quantify Challenge For New GM
Sean Pendergast | January 9, 2018 | 5:56am

The Houston Texans are in the process of hiring a new general manager, we all know this. The search took a bit of a hit over the weekend when at least three candidates — Joe Douglas of Philadelphia, and Nick Cerasio and Monti Ossenfort of New England — were blocked by their current employers from interviewing for the job, as those teams are fortunate enough to be in the playoffs right now.

So how close are the Texans to returning to the playoffs? They just finished a 4-12 season which would have them picking fourth in the draft, if they still had their first round pick. However, we know that record is more than a little misleading thanks to the injury to Deshaun Watson. The Texans went 1-9 in the ten games not started by Watson. I think it's safe to say that Watson finds a way to win at least three or four of those games ten games he missed.

The one thing about finishing 4-12, though, and particularly 1-9 in the games without Watson, is that the world (and future Texans general management) got a true, clear look at the talent level of this team sans Watson (and J.J. Watt and Whitney Mercilus, for that matter).

Spoiler alert — IT AIN'T GOOD.

There are probably many fun ways we can summarize and quantify the dilapidated state of and lack of talent on the Texans' roster, but for me, the easiest way to do it is via Pro Football Focus' player scores. For those who don't know, PFF is a site where analysts watch every player on every snap of every game and give them a grade based on their overall performance in the game. The scoring system probably isn't perfect, t's very subjective, but they're the only site that rates every player to this level of detail, to my knowledge, and I think they do a pretty good job.

Certainly, for purposes of this exercise, it makes the point that the next general manager has a LOT of work to do. The scoring system is a lot like a college course — 90 and up, is like an A; 85-90, a B; 80-85, a B-; and so forth, up to scores below 60 essentially being a failing grade.

As you'll see below, aside from Deshaun Watson, whose grade of 75.1 (about a C) is tough to fathom, they're pretty spot on with what our eyes tell us about this Texans roster — there are a few foundational players, and a ton of upgrades needed. With that in mind, here are the Texans' PFF grades, with my further comments following:

QUARTERBACK
Deshaun Watson (75.1, 29th out of 40)
Tom Savage (71.1, 32nd out of 40)

RUNNING BACK
Lamar Miller (77.9, 24th out of 61)
Andre Ellington (56.6, 51st out of 61)
Alfred Blue (73.4, NR)
D'Onta Foreman (56.3, NR)
Jay Prosch, FB (45.2, 9th out of 18)

WIDE RECEIVER
DeAndre Hopkins (90.6, 4th out of 120)
Will Fuller (73.0, 55th out of 120)
Braxton Miller (47.0, 97th out of 120)
Andre Ellington (46.7, 99th out of 120)
Chris Thompson (61.6, NR)
Tyler Ervin (55.7, NR)
Cobb Hamilton (53.0, NR)

TIGHT END
Ryan Griffin (53.6, 36th out of 72)
Stephen Anderson (47.1, 49th out of 72)
C.J. Fiedorowicz (63.4, NR)

CENTER
Nick Martin (44.9, 30th out of 38)
Greg Mancz (39.0, 37th out of 38)

GUARD
Jeff Allen (38.4, 73rd out of 82)
Xavier Su'a-Filo (35.8, 80th out of 82)
David Quessenberry (51.0, NR)
Kyle Fuller (48.1, NR)

TACKLE
Chris Clark (37.7, 80th out of 86)
Breno Giacomini (32.7, 85th out of 86)
Kendall Lamm (53.6, NR)
Julien Davenport (47.6, MR)

DEFENSIVE LINE
D.J. Reader (84.2, 22nd out of 125)
Brandon Dunn (71.5, 89th out of 125)
Carlos Watkins (71.3, 90th out of 125)
Joel Heath (44.6, 118th out of 125)
J.J. Watt (89.3, NR)
Christian Covington (83.2, NR)

EDGE RUSHER
Jadeveon Clowney (88.3, 13th out of 109)
Brennan Scarlett (55.2, 91st out of 109)
Whitney Mercilus 75.1, NR)
Ufomba Kamalu (48.3, NR)

LINEBACKER
Zach Cunningham (80.6, 21st out of 88)
Bernardrick McKinney (79.7, 26th out of 88)
Dylan Cole (78.0, NR)
Brian Peters (61.6, NR)
Brian Cushing (52.0, NR)
Jelani Jenkins (43.7, NR)

CORNERBACK
Johnathan Joseph (75.7, 67th out of 121)
Kareem Jackson (52.2, 95th out of 121)
Kevin Johnson (32.0, 121st out of 121)
Marcus Williams (63.6, NR)

SAFETY
Andre Hal (78.5, 43rd out of 87)
Marcus Gilchrist (77.2, 51st out of 87)
Eddie Pleasant (77.3, 47th out of 87)
Corey Moore (79.2, NR)
Ibrahim Campbell (75.8, NR)
Treston Decoud (72.6, NR)
Kurtis Drummond (60.5, NR)

Ok, here are my observations:

1. The Texans have 31 players who played enough snaps to qualify for ranking at their respective positions. If you're looking for a breakdown of the Texans' roster composition, in terms of quality with respect to those 31 players, it goes like this

90-100: 1 player
85-89.9: 1 player
80-84.9: 2 players
70-79.9: 11 players
60-69.9: 0 players
59.9 or lower: 16 players

So more than half of the Texans' qualifying roster had failing grades, and in many cases, we aren't talking about near misses at scoring a passing grade. We are talking MAJOR failure, like grades in the 30's and 40's. One area, in particular, is of concern....

2. The offensive line.... my God, the offensive line. We know how bad it looked to our eyes all season long, but PFF quantifies this in a way that makes you want to ask for punitive damages for the time you spent watching the non-Deshaun games all season. The average PFF score for the five qualifying offensive linemen was 37.9, personnel malpractice to the n-th degree. Brent Giacomini, the 85th ranked tackle out of 86, played every offensive snap this season. That's about all you need to know about the Texans' roster depth this past season.

3. Add in the fact that both of the qualifying tight ends, Griffin and Anderson, along with their primary hybrid offensive linemen (Davenport, Quessenberry, Kyle Fuller) all had failing grades, and that pretty much explains the offensive failures without Deshaun Watson's playmaking ability.

4. We all know that Kevin Johnson wasn't the Kevin Johnson we were all expecting this season. Hell, Kevin Johnson himself said it in every interview over the last four weeks of the season. He would constantly get beat in coverage and couldn't tackle to save his life. For his efforts, he is the 121st rated cornerback in the NFL.... out of 121 cornerbacks. Yuck. THE REST OF THIS STORY

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

And there are people out there still convinced that there can be and are demanding a total turnaround in 1 year?............or else.......:bubbles:
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
Are you implying that giving up a 2nd round pick for giving a player away is a good deal. I sure don't think so!
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I said exactly what I meant.

DW and the 1rst we lost to move up to get get him should have been a 1rst for the 2019 season given we had no 2nd round picks.
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What? We still have our 2019 1st. The 2nd round pick has nothing to do with Watson. The 1st has nothing to do with Oz. And it wasn't lost.
 
JB said:
wait... that's saying there was a worse tackle in the league than Guacamole?
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But not a worse CB than KJo.

LOL, man Ricky was just doing a swell job in the draft.

Or was that RAC's/Vrabel's fault?
 
infantrycak said:
Nobody's. It's a friggin' injury.
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He was 121st out of 121.

Was he hurt all yr?

Because he sure couldn't cover very well and although he would make a big hit every once in a while, his tackling ability was even piss poor worse.
 
steelbtexan said:
He was 121st out of 121.

Was he hurt all yr?

Because he sure couldn't cover very well and although he would make a big hit every once in a while, his tackling ability was even piss poor worse.
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What, you only listen to Doc when it suits you? His 2nd foot injury was during the 2016 season so yes it's affects and those from the prior surgery were throughout 2017.
 
JB said:
Let? They had no choice. Even you said prior to the fact that he was not worth franchising... hindsight is sweet
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Turns out , performance wise he probably was worth the Ftag money.

Then again he probably doesn't move the needle for last years team , maybe one game (Pats). And they would find it hard to Ftag him in consecutive years ..... so he'd likely be gone this offseason anyhow .... since he apparently didn't want to be here to begin with.

Hell of a player , too bad he plays for the Jaq's .....
 
JB said:
Let? They had no choice. Even you said prior to the fact that he was not worth franchising... hindsight is sweet
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They could've tagged him.

If I knew Ricky wasn't going to spend the $$$$ saved on letting Bouye go on the OL, then I would've been on board with keeping Bouye.
 
Corrosion said:
Turns out , performance wise he probably was worth the Ftag money.

Then again he probably doesn't move the needle for last years team , maybe one game (Pats). And they would find it hard to Ftag him in consecutive years ..... so he'd likely be gone this offseason anyhow .... since he apparently didn't want to be here to begin with.

Hell of a player , too bad he plays for the Jaq's .....
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He wasn't going to sign long term here regardless
 
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