Who would you trade JJ Watt for? QB

[leebigeztx]

Not to mention the way they call plays, Bridgewater would be perfect. No matter how people try to downsize the value, good qb play trumps everything. Great qb play = titles. Flacco and Eli have titles because the played great when it mattered most.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

So if the Panthers offered us Cam Newton for J.J. Watt you guys would reject that deal? I have to say, I'm going to think long and hard about for the night at least. Doing my due diligence for the organization. You would try to squeeze a first-round pick on top of Cam Newton? The Panthers would be fleeced. LOL

 

[Speedy]

How 'bout we keep Watt and address the QB position for a change? And I don't mean addressing it with the Fitzpatrick's and Hoyers of the world. That's not addressing jack. If you've got to draft a QB in the 1st for the next 3 years, then you do it because no matter who you pick that's not a QB, it won't make a damn bit of difference until you find that QB.

FIND YOUR QB!!!!!

If that means Watt wastes his career here then so be it. I think he'll be OK with his $100M+.

FIND A DAMN QB!!!!!

 

[Bulls on Parade]

I no longer have the patience for that, Speedy.
I've been waiting a decade (since 2005) for that approach.
Once it was obvious to me that David Carr was a bust already.

Matt Schaub was more than a stop gap. He was good when healthy.
But that was only for a few pro bowl caliber years. He didn't last long.
I'd like to start over, draft a quarterback in the first round, and go from there.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

The sad thing is David Carr hurt us big time. We passed on the likes of Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers, in two separate drafts, because we still believed in Carr. And then a year later we traded for Schaub. Ugh. Two Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were right there on the board and we selected Dunta Robinson and Travis Johnson instead.

But now in 2015 I'm supposed to be patient enough to draft our next quarterback in the first round? No thanks. I'm too old already. Well okay, 34. Maybe not old old but old enough. I don't have that kind of energy anymore to follow the team with as much hope as I used to.

This team has broken my dreams far too often. I'd rather tailgate than see them lose! At least eating good barbecue makes me feel good unlike the team losing year after year. After fucken year!

 

[infantrycak]

What is this Cam Newton fascination? He's not as good as pre-injury Schaub and not showing any improvement.

He's also in the 1st year of his contract with $41 mil dead money this year, $18 mil next year. It's 8 diffkinds of not happening.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

What is this Cam Newton fascination? He's not as good as pre-injury Schaub and not showing any improvement.

He's winning on a Panthers team with limited offensive weapons. A stud tight end, a couple decent aging backs, but they could use better receivers. Still they make it work. They beat us didn't they? Cam Newton single-handily beat us with that amazing Touchdown. The Panthers will probably go 12-4 this season. Schaub had a ton of offensive weapons. Man, give Cam Newton a young Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Steve Slaton (was a beast rookie), eventually Arian Foster, he'd put up All Pro Stats.

We'll be lucky to win 9 or 10 games. Hopefully we go 6-0 in the division and win the AFC South. More than likely we'll go 6-10 though. I'm only being optimistic saying 9 or 10 wins. Only because our division sucks and I think we can run the table against the pathetic Colts, Titans and Jaguars. We will win tomorrow.

 

[HJam72]

The sad thing is David Carr hurt us big time. We passed on the likes of Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers, in two separate drafts, because we still believed in Carr. And then a year later we traded for Schaub. Ugh. Two Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were right there on the board and we selected Dunta Robinson and Travis Johnson instead.

But now in 2015 I'm supposed to be patient enough to draft our next quarterback in the first round? No thanks. I'm too old already. Well okay, 34. Maybe not old old but old enough. I don't have that kind of energy anymore to follow the team with as much hope as I used to.

This team has broken my dreams far too often. I'd rather tailgate than see them lose! At least eating good barbecue makes me feel good unlike the team losing year after year. After fucken year!

This is why I keep bringing up the idea of generally just taking more QBs. It wouldn't have mattered that they all thought Carr was still going to get it done; I still would have taken either Rodgers or Roethlisburger. QBs can be traded too, and you don't want to be without one. All it would have taken is that we took one of those guys as insurance....and that insurance would have paid off in SPADES. Carr's downfall would've been the start of great things, instead of the seeming end of the world.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

This is why I keep bringing up the idea of generally just taking more QBs. It wouldn't have mattered that they all thought Carr was still going to get it done; I still would have taken either Rodgers or Roethlisburger. QBs can be traded too, and you don't want to be without one. All it would have taken is that we took one of those guys as insurance....and that insurance would have paid off in SPADES. Carr's downfall would've been the start of great things, instead of the seeming end of the world.

I agree. You and I think alike. At the very least you should draft a good quarterback, even in the first round, just to groom in case your current guy doesn't pan out. Even if you have an established aging quarterback it's best to eye talent at the quarterback position.

They can sit and learn for a year or two, even three years, if need be. Big Ben was thrown into the starter's role in Pittsburgh right away and had a lot of success winning games as a rookie (rare case), but Aaron Rodgers had to wait a long time behind Brett Favre.

But those franchises made the right choice selecting a quarterback in the first round. While we were enamored with the likes of Dunta Robinson and Travis Johnson. We could have picked up a cornerback or defensive tackle with those two second-round picks we dealt to the Falcons for Matt Schaub a year later. Swapping first-round picks as well. And we would already had our franchise quarterback (since 2004 or 2005). They'd still be here 11 or 10 years later.

As I've gotten older I realize how important the quarterback position is. When I was young and naive I wanted to believe we could build a Super Bowl contender by building a dominating defense. But a lot of those defensive linemen we drafted in the first round - Travis Johnson, Amobi Okoye and Jason Babin - didn't amount to much. Babin finally got it and played like a stud for a few seasons after he left here. I think he made the switch to linebacker from defensive end. But all three were busts as Texans. And freakin' Dunta Robinson, yeah he was good for a few seasons (before his attitude sucked - pay me Rick on his shoes!), but the Steelers selected Big Ben a pick after we took him. Booo!!!!

 

[JB]

The sad thing is David Carr hurt us big time. We passed on the likes of Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers, in two separate drafts, because we still believed in Carr.

Isn't hindsight great! Makes experts out of everyone. If they were known to be super bowl winning qb's then they would have gone 1.1 and we would have had no shot at them anyway. It's a crap shoot and some teams hit 7 and teams like the Texans just shoot themselves in the foot

 

[chicagotexan2]

A metric sh.it ton of picks. Seriously we could get a minimum of 4 firsts and a large amount of other picks as well

Even after the RG3 debacle I bet the Redskins would do something like this.

For there's one player id definitely trade him for - Aaron Rodgers and I seriously consider Russell Wilson and Andrew luck.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Isn't hindsight great! Makes experts out of everyone. If they were known to be super bowl winning qb's then they would have gone 1.1 and we would have had no shot at them anyway. It's a crap shoot and some teams hit 7 and teams like the Texans just shoot themselves in the foot

You're right but it's just frustrating. Now in 2015 we're trotting out these bozos like Ryan Mallett (strong arm but has the intelligence of a clown) and Brian Hoyer (weakest arm I've seen in years but a book worm). If only we could combine the two maybe we'd have something good. I mean damn, I sort of miss Ryan Fitzpatrick to be honest and he wasn't all that good.

But all of those guys are patchwork projects. Nothing more than a stopgap and wasting time. We need to draft a quarterback in the first round of the 2016 NFL Draft no matter what pick we end up with.

That being said I have no choice but to cheer for Ryan Mallett since he's our starter tomorrow night. I hope he plays well. He has one of the strongest throwing arms in the league. If only we took advantage of it somehow. The guy can't read a defense and doesn't know how to audible out of a bad play. And he can't throw a little touch pass without trying to break somebody's fingers off.

 

[thunderkyss]

I want us to draft a guy who is 6'4" 230lbs or so. A laser, rocket arm. 3 year starter for a major conference with a major football program. A top 25 program would be nice. A guy who played in a pro style offense who completed 60% of his passes, over 7 ypa, & a TD to INT ratio 3:1 or better.

I'd also like to see a practical understanding of ball placement

 

[Mollywhopper]

He's winning on a Panthers team with limited offensive weapons. A stud tight end, a couple decent aging backs, but they could use better receivers. Still they make it work. They beat us didn't they? Cam Newton single-handily beat us with that amazing Touchdown. The Panthers will probably go 12-4 this season. Schaub had a ton of offensive weapons. Man, give Cam Newton a young Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Steve Slaton (was a beast rookie), eventually Arian Foster, he'd put up All Pro Stats.

We'll be lucky to win 9 or 10 games. Hopefully we go 6-0 in the division and win the AFC South. More than likely we'll go 6-10 though. I'm only being optimistic saying 9 or 10 wins. Only because our division sucks and I think we can run the table against the pathetic Colts, Titans and Jaguars. We will win tomorrow.

The Panthers are leading the league in turnover ratio, have a more than solid defense, have had a very effective oline, and have played next to nobody (including us) to get to 4-0. I wouldn't go as far as to say they're winning in spite of Cam, but it's not remotely like he's carrying this team on his back. He's doing well and he's protecting the ball while getting the ball back frequently and many times on short fields.

I don't really get what's so superlative about his play so far.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

The Panthers are leading the league in turnover ratio, have a more than solid defense, have had a very effective oline, and have played next to nobody (including us) to get to 4-0. I wouldn't go as far as to say they're winning in spite of Cam, but it's not remotely like he's carrying this team on his back. He's doing well and he's protecting the ball while getting the ball back frequently and many times on short fields.

I don't really get what's so superlative about his play so far.

What round do you think Cardale Jones will be selected? With the right coaching he could be good enough in the pros to become a franchise quarterback. All I see is an immature kid right now but the physical tools are there.

As far as Cam Newton, I've always liked his game. He's fun to watch. Just the size of the guy and his athleticism is unreal. He's the size of a linebacker at 6'5 and 245. He runs like a receiver and he plays a fun style that makes me drool over the possibilities. He can play a lot of different offensive schemes.

Maybe it's not what NFL head coaches like (Bill O'Brien says there's no real blueprint for finding a talented quarterback), but for a fan of a team that doesn't get that type of excitement from the position I guess I'm salivating over his game when I watch him play. Like you said, he doesn't turn the ball over. Good passing stats, nice TD-to-INT ratio (averages like 600 yards rushing a season as well). Although the past few years he's not rushing for over 700 yards like he did his first two seasons. But 530+ the past two seasons.

Cam Newton is just a sexy quarterback if that makes sense.
He's what I envision what a 2015 NFL quarterback should be.

Speaking of Cardale Jones, sign me up please. LOL
But he has some maturity issues he has to overcome.

I just want some excitement from our quarterback play.
We deserve that don't we? When the heck will we have it?

I would rather have Cam Newton instead of Russell Wilson but that's just me. As a Texans fan, either would be a tremendous upgrade. I just think given what we have right now a guy like Cam can do more with less. Russell Wilson isn't exactly tearing it up this year with a lot of great players around him. Banged up O-Line. Inexperienced O-Line as well. I'll give you that.

 

[Mollywhopper]

What round do you think Cardale Jones will be selected? With the right coaching he could be good enough in the pros to become a franchise quarterback.

I got that far.

But to at least answer your question, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Jones go in the first.

And then I'll be even less surprised to see a thoroughly disappointed franchise and fanbase.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

I got that far.

But to at least answer your question, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Jones go in the first.

And then I'll be even less surprised to see a very very disappointed franchise and fansbase.

You and I both agree with Bill O'Brien though. There really is no right way or wrong way to evaluating a quarterback when it comes to how good they can become in the NFL. You just never know. Small guy, big guy, great runner and athleticism. I guess what really matters is how good of a pocket passer they are. In the end that's all they will have later in their careers. If you want to have one of those elite passers who can play until their late 30's or early 40's. I don't think Russell Wilson will play past 33 or 34 years old. Likely the same for Cam Newton. Russell Wilson is a small dude getting hit a ton this season. I'll be shocked if he's even healthy at the end of this season.

 

[Mollywhopper]

You and I both agree with Bill O'Brien though. There really is no right way or wrong way to evaluating a quarterback when it comes to how good they can become in the NFL. You just never know. Small guy, big guy, great runner and athleticism. I guess what really matters is how good of a pocket passer they are. In the end that's all they will have later in their careers. If you want to have one of those elite passers who can play until their late 30's or early 40's. I don't think Russell Wilson will play past 33 or 34 years old. Likely the same for Cam Newton. Russell Wilson is a small dude getting hit a ton this season. I'll be shocked if he's even healthy at the end of this season.

I think there are effective ways to evaluate a QB at the pro level. Arm talent, footwork, how fast can he process information, how does he handle adversity, does he absolutely love the game, does he understand HOW to lead. Those are the boxes to check. The more measurable after that the better, but those traits are the position in a nutshell.

As far as OB goes, I think he's just trying to play the world's best three-card monte until he finds HIS guy. But his trust is starting to run on fumes at this point. We'll see this offseason, because I doubt he's getting more than one more without hitching his wagon to someone.

 

[Brisco_County]

As great as JJ is, you couldn't even get stafford for him...

There's a Stafford in every other draft. JJ Watt is a once in a generation player.

Which is why I don't understand the point of this topic to begin with.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

I think there are effective ways to evaluate a QB at the pro level. Arm talent, footwork, how fast can he process information, how does he handle adversity, does he absolutely love the game, does he understand HOW to lead. Those are the boxes to check. The more measurable after that the better, but those traits are the position in a nutshell.

As far as OB goes, I think he's just trying to play the world's best three-card monte until he finds HIS guy. But his trust is starting to run on fumes at this point. We'll see this offseason, because I doubt he's getting more than one more without hitching his wagon to someone.

I really hope the Texans draft a quarterback in the first round of the 2016 NFL Draft regardless of what pick we have. Unless Ryan Mallett lights the world on fire the rest of this season. We can still win a wide open AFC South division this year. But long-term wise I'd like to invest a first-round pick on a quarterback at some point. Not a fourth-round project like Tom Savage who's inability to stay healthy the past two seasons really hurts any progression.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

There's a Stafford in every other draft. JJ Watt is a once in a generation player.

Which is why I don't understand the point of this topic to begin with.

I think the creator of the thread is just frustrated. The teams that are winning Super Bowls have very good quarterbacks. That much we know is a given fact. They are often elite in most cases but very good otherwise. To be fair, for guys like Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco, they were very good during those playoff runs when they won the Super Bowl. If you want to say elite I won't argue with you. Flacco had a Joe Montana like playoff run that year (Tons of Touchdowns, zero Interceptions - 11 to 0 ratio).

But point being is that Super Bowl caliber teams don't need J.J. Watt. We went 2-14 a few seasons ago with J.J. Watt. We're 1-3 this season. He did carry us to 9-7 last year (won 4 or so games by himself) but even that wasn't good enough to make the playoffs. We did better as a team in Watt's rookie season when he wasn't nearly as good as he is now.

As great as J.J. Watt is, the best player in the NFL right now and likely the best defensive player in NFL History, he doesn't impact the game like a quarterback can. Even if he played more Tight End in the red zone (not just goal line packages) and scored more offensive Touchdowns. He's still not a quarterback leading us to Super Bowls.

Take Watt away and give the Texans an elite quarterback. Chances are we'd become a better team that competes for a Super Bowl. But of course it would be best if we find a great quarterback while Watt is still on our roster. Like somebody mentioned earlier. We don't want Watt to become the next Andre Johnson. Wasting years away. Wasting prime and healthy years away.

I just think J.J. Watt is our best trading chip right now. Humongous salary but worth every penny. The problem is he's not a quarterback. Of all the positions you want to have the best player in the NFL it would be a quarterback.

It's like Dolphins fans being amped up over the Suh signing this past off-season. I don't care how dominating Suh is he's not going to lead the Dolphins to a Super Bowl. They need better quarterback play. And Suh made more bank than Watt. Ridiculous.

 

[infantrycak]

I just think J.J. Watt is our best trading chip right now.

You can't just look at on field value. You have to consider cap ramifications. Many players, particularly QBs and stars effectively cannot be traded during the early years of contracts. You're spending tons of time on a non-viable idea.

 

[dream_team]

I really hope the Texans draft a quarterback in the first round of the 2016 NFL Draft regardless of what pick we have. Unless Ryan Mallett lights the world on fire the rest of this season. We can still win a wide open AFC South division this year. But long-term wise I'd like to invest a first-round pick on a quarterback at some point. Not a fourth-round project like Tom Savage who's inability to stay healthy the past two seasons really hurts any progression.

I have never been a fan of this strategy. I don't want to use a 1st on any QB just because that's what we need. That's why guys like Ponder, Locker or EJ Manuel go higher than expected.

 

[Thorn]

Has anyone seen Watt's stats this year? He's worthless. He's washed up. We'd be lucky to get a can of diet coke and a bag of chips for him. We should trade him and draft some more defensive linemen.

 

[mridge01]

I'd trade him for Aaron Rodgers.

 

[santo]

What is this Cam Newton fascination? He's not as good as pre-injury Schaub and not showing any improvement.

He's also in the 1st year of his contract with $41 mil dead money this year, $18 mil next year. It's 8 diffkinds of not happening.

I would take Cam Newton over what OB has been trying to force us as good qb's. Just saying.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Cam and the mighty Panthers have beaten teams that have a combined record of 4-13

Cak mentioned two pages ago of the ramifications of such a trade being a huge cap hit. Not to mention ridiculous. Yet, this thread keeps on rollin.

A lot of "Mr. Preposterous trade proposers" up in this joint

 

[TexansSeminole]

I wouldn't trade JJ Watt for anyone. He's the best player in his position group in the league, best defensive player in the league, and a model citizen. He's what you want for the face of your franchise. Would we be a better team if we could trade a franchise QB for him, probably (almost definitely) but I don't like the message that sends. Regardless, we shouldn't have to trade the best talent we've ever had for a franchise QB, as difficult as it is to acquire one.

 

[SolidSnake]

I would keep JJ Watt and just pick up Tim Tebow from free agency. I'd rather have him than Hoyer or Mallet.

 

[HJam72]

I'm one of the posters here who thinks we should be far more aggressive about finding the right QB, probably through the draft, but maybe otherwise. But, I know that trading Watt isn't going to happen anytime soon and that I likely would never do it. Yes, the right QB would get us far more Wins than any player at any other position, but trading Watt isn't the answer. I'm looking more at spending fewer resources to reach for more Watts in the future and more resources on finding the QB. Generally, we don't spend enough high draft picks on the offense at all. Then, our all pro D just gets tired because our offense is 3-and-out, repeat, repeat, turnover...

 

[Texecutioner]

I wouldn't trade JJ Watt for anyone. He's the best player in his position group in the league, best defensive player in the league, and a model citizen. He's what you want for the face of your franchise. Would we be a better team if we could trade a franchise QB for him, probably (almost definitely) but I don't like the message that sends. Regardless, we shouldn't have to trade the best talent we've ever had for a franchise QB, as difficult as it is to acquire one.

Then you can't really complain about having a losing team then. If you have a much bigger desire to root for one player than the entire franchise to have success, then winning and losing shouldn't matter at all to you, because you can watch your favorite superstars play. I love Watt to death, but as great as he is, he'll never be the game changer that a great QB is due to the NFL rules and how they've made the QB position to important. Watt may be great, but his greatness isn't winning us SB's or even getting us into the playoffs consistently. I'm not saying I want to trade him or anything, but if we had a young franchise QB available, then it would be a no brainer. The fact is that trade will never be there though, because other teams would never give up that kind of commodity for Watt who has been on a franchise that no one in the NFL really respects despite how great of a player he is.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Then you can't really complain about having a losing team then. If you have a much bigger desire to root for one player than the entire franchise to have success, then winning and losing shouldn't matter at all to you, because you can watch your favorite superstars play. I love Watt to death, but as great as he is, he'll never be the game changer that a great QB is due to the NFL rules and how they've made the QB position to important. Watt may be great, but his greatness isn't winning us SB's or even getting us into the playoffs consistently. I'm not saying I want to trade him or anything, but if we had a young franchise QB available, then it would be a no brainer. The fact is that trade will never be there though, because other teams would never give up that kind of commodity for Watt who has been on a franchise that no one in the NFL really respects despite how great of a player he is.

You missed where I said that you shouldn't have to trade the best talent you have ever drafted for a franchise quarterback. I value several things in a team that I root for, I don't value winning only. For example, I wouldn't root for a team full of assholes (Greg Hardy) even if they were winning. That doesn't mean that I have to have all model citizens either. Those two statements are not logically equivalent.

You're assuning implication where it doesn't exist, which is shown by your first two sentences.

 

[Brisco_County]

My responses below are going to sound like I'm being cranky. It's not directed at the posters, it's because this topic is embarrassingly bad logic.

But point being is that Super Bowl caliber teams don't need J.J. Watt. Take Watt away and give the Texans an elite quarterback. Chances are we'd become a better team that competes for a Super Bowl.

Or we could do like every Super Bowl winning team in history by scouting and drafting better. You said it yourself: Russell Wilson, 3rd round.

The QB's are out there. The JJ Watts are not.

We don't want Watt to become the next Andre Johnson. Wasting years away. Wasting prime and healthy years away.

So trades are now based on being conscientious of a player's career?

I just think J.J. Watt is our best trading chip right now.

...

It's like Dolphins fans being amped up over the Suh signing this past off-season. I don't care how dominating Suh is he's not going to lead the Dolphins to a Super Bowl.

It's funny how fans regard Watt as a singularly unique game changer until the team sucks again.

And Suh's an own-worst-enemy underachiever.

I'd trade him for Aaron Rodgers.

There are more Aaron Rodgers in a generation than JJ Watts. And Rodgers slipped to #24.

You guys aren't understanding: It's not the top tier QB's that are unattainable once-a-generation assets, it's JJ Watt who is the unattainable asset.

This thread should be called, "We're desperate enough to sell our firstborn to our neighbors because we forgot how to breed."

It's embarrassing. Simply because we feel desperate doesn't mean we should act desperate.

Imaging the legendary, permanent, historic embarrassment of this franchise if we traded Watt because we don't know how to draft. Your grandkids will always say to you, "Tell us again why your team traded the best defensive player in history instead of firing their GM."

 

[mridge01]

There are more Aaron Rodgers in a generation than JJ Watts. And Rodgers slipped to #24.

You guys aren't understanding: It's not the top tier QB's that are unattainable once-a-generation assets, it's JJ Watt who is the unattainable asset.

This thread should be called, "We're desperate enough to sell our firstborn to our neighbors because we forgot how to breed."

It's embarrassing. Simply because we feel desperate doesn't mean we should act desperate.

Imaging the legendary, permanent, historic embarrassment of this franchise if we traded Watt because we don't know how to draft. Your grandkids will always say to you, "Tell us again why your team traded the best defensive player in history instead of firing their GM."

I get your point, but all I know is Aaron Rodgers is helping his team win at a high level, JJ is not.

 

[Hervoyel]

Like I said, nobody is trading a real bonafide franchise QB for Watt. Only potential franchise QB's that they apparently don't believe in (because if they did they'd keep that QB prospect).

Just draft one in the first and if he fails you try again. It's the only position you should be doing this with (though we seem to think that 4-3 DE is also one you draft over and over again).

 

[Texecutioner]

Like I said, nobody is trading a real bonafide franchise QB for Watt. Only potential franchise QB's that they apparently don't believe in (because if they did they'd keep that QB prospect).

Just draft one in the first and if he fails you try again. It's the only position you should be doing this with (though we seem to think that 4-3 DE is also one you draft over and over again).

Finally some common sense in this thread. I'd be willing to do that for three years in a row until we finally find a QB. You can't really compete in this league anymore consistently without one.

 

[Brisco_County]

Double post.

 

[Brisco_County]

I get your point, but all I know is Aaron Rodgers is helping his team win at a high level, JJ is not.

Green Bay's success isn't all due to one player. It's not a mystery. Draft.

 

[Texecutioner]

My responses below are going to sound like I'm being cranky. It's not directed at the posters, it's because this topic is embarrassingly bad logic.



Or we could do like every Super Bowl winning team in history by scouting and drafting better. You said it yourself: Russell Wilson, 3rd round.

The QB's are out there. The JJ Watts are not.



So trades are now based on being conscientious of a player's career?



It's funny how fans regard Watt as a singularly unique game changer until the team sucks again.

And Suh's an own-worst-enemy underachiever.



There are more Aaron Rodgers in a generation than JJ Watts. And Rodgers slipped to #24.

You guys aren't understanding: It's not the top tier QB's that are unattainable once-a-generation assets, it's JJ Watt who is the unattainable asset.

This thread should be called, "We're desperate enough to sell our firstborn to our neighbors because we forgot how to breed."

It's embarrassing. Simply because we feel desperate doesn't mean we should act desperate.

Imaging the legendary, permanent, historic embarrassment of this franchise if we traded Watt because we don't know how to draft. Your grandkids will always say to you, "Tell us again why your team traded the best defensive player in history instead of firing their GM."

You talk as if picking QB's in later rounds is easy by bringing up random examples. Where are all of the other dozens of failures at QB that teams pick and they either never start or train wreck early on? Wilson type players are exceptions, not the norm. You might as well had brought up that same ridiculous example of how Brady was picked in the 6th round as if that was some sort of thing that happens every year.

Some of you simply don't seem to understand the rules in the NFL anymore. They favor offense, and they favor QB's more and more. QB"s SELL!! The NFL is highly invested into making the QB position a lot more important than any other position. They have changed the rules to make it easier for receivers. They have changed the rules to make it harder for QB's to get hurt. Great QB's generally have their teams in contention every year. Great DE's are generally an important piece, but nowhere near as important as a franchise QB if you don't have one.

Sure, you can bring up failures in the first round at QB. Do you have any idea how many I can bring up at the DE position every year? A ton of them. Hell we've got one on our roster named Clowney. The Texans had Mario Williams for years, and they were still bottom feeders. Why is it that no one seemed to learn from that either. The chances are a lot higher that you'll find a great NFL QB in the first round than the later ones though. You really want to draft in the top 5 though.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Like I said, nobody is trading a real bonafide franchise QB for Watt. Only potential franchise QB's that they apparently don't believe in (because if they did they'd keep that QB prospect).

Just draft one in the first and if he fails you try again. It's the only position you should be doing this with (though we seem to think that 4-3 DE is also one you draft over and over again).

I agree with Brisco that this topic is bringing out some bad logic. Herv also has it right, as usual.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Green Bay's success isn't all due to one player. It's not a mystery. Draft.

I doubt Aaron Rodgers would be the qb of a team that has experienced this much suck over the past few years.

As good and as rare as Watt is, the value he brings to the team on the field is dwarfed by a franchise qb. Watt had an MVP type season last year. We missed the playoffs. Watt was amazing the year before. We went 2-14. Watt is still playing well this season. We are 1-3, and just got curb stomped by the Falcons.

Peyton Manning was on teams that had some talent issues on defense for years. Colts still have talent issues and make dumb trades like trading first for Richardson.

It's much easier to get over misses in the draft when you have a franchise qb. its easier to get over losing top players in FA, or due to injury.

And the Texans have had some horrendous drafts here lately, but overall the Texans draft record hasn't been bad. It's actually been pretty good.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Like I said, nobody is trading a real bonafide franchise QB for Watt. Only potential franchise QB's that they apparently don't believe in (because if they did they'd keep that QB prospect).

Just draft one in the first and if he fails you try again. It's the only position you should be doing this with (though we seem to think that 4-3 DE is also one you draft over and over again).

I agree. I wanted TB, but if they'd have drafted any of those 1st or 2nd rd guys that year I'd have gotten behind the pick.

Neglecting that position is asinine. McNair coming out and saying they don't need a top tier qb to win exposed the mindset of the organization and we can only hope that now they see the err of their ways.

It's time to start using some real resources to get that position fixed.

 

[TexansSeminole]

You talk as if picking QB's in later rounds is easy by bringing up random examples. Where are all of the other dozens of failures at QB that teams pick and they either never start or train wreck early on? Wilson type players are exceptions, not the norm. You might as well had brought up that same ridiculous example of how Brady was picked in the 6th round as if that was some sort of thing that happens every year.

Some of you simply don't seem to understand the rules in the NFL anymore. They favor offense, and they favor QB's more and more. QB"s SELL!! The NFL is highly invested into making the QB position a lot more important than any other position. They have changed the rules to make it easier for receivers. They have changed the rules to make it harder for QB's to get hurt. Great QB's generally have their teams in contention every year. Great DE's are generally an important piece, but nowhere near as important as a franchise QB if you don't have one.

Sure, you can bring up failures in the first round at QB. Do you have any idea how many I can bring up at the DE position every year? A ton of them. Hell we've got one on our roster named Clowney. The Texans had Mario Williams for years, and they were still bottom feeders. Why is it that no one seemed to learn from that either. The chances are a lot higher that you'll find a great NFL QB in the first round than the later ones though. You really want to draft in the top 5 though.

I'm starting to become confused as to why you are bringing up specific points in this thread. I think your using bad logic and applying it specifically AND broadly, which makes it difficult to follow or converse with you. Nobody is saying the things you are arguing against.

 

[thunderkyss]

Some of you simply don't seem to understand the rules in the NFL anymore. They favor offense, and they favor QB's more and more. QB"s SELL!! The NFL is highly invested into making the QB position a lot more important than any other position.

You'd think McNair (who's only concern is the bottom line) would have got him a QB so he could increase profits.

 

[Texecutioner]

You'd think McNair (who's only concern is the bottom line) would have got him a QB so he could increase profits.

Mcnair really doesn't need to. His profits are fine and will continue to be as long as we have tailgating.

 

[Brisco_County]

You talk as if picking QB's in later rounds is easy by bringing up random examples.

You're missing the point. I'm not talking "easy," I'm talking "attainable." Championship QB's are attainable, and if we don't have one after 14 years, change your GM/scouting personnel before trading historically phenomenal players.

 

[Brisco_County]

I doubt Aaron Rodgers would be the qb of a team that has experienced this much suck over the past few years.

As good and as rare as Watt is, the value he brings to the team on the field is dwarfed by a franchise qb. Watt had an MVP type season last year. We missed the playoffs. Watt was amazing the year before. We went 2-14. Watt is still playing well this season. We are 1-3, and just got curb stomped by the Falcons.

I'm not saying that Watt makes up for a franchise QB.

I'm saying we can (and should) have both if we built a team correctly, so don't get rid of an extremely rare player because you don't know how to draft the less rare one.

 

[Texecutioner]

I'm starting to become confused as to why you are bringing up specific points in this thread. I think your using bad logic and applying it specifically AND broadly, which makes it difficult to follow or converse with you. Nobody is saying the things you are arguing against.

My statements there weren't towards you. You stated you wouldn't trade Watt for any QB in this league. That was all you needed to say which to me suggests that you're more concerned with watching some superstar you admire than to see the success of a team as a whole. With Watt being as great as he is, his position doesn't have near the impact that a bonafied franchise QB can have. We've been losers with Watt having great seasons. These were the same conversations that used to take place surrounding Andre Johnson many years ago when we were a bad team, and guys would say they'd never trade Johnson for anyone in here. These are reasons why I say about half of this board isn't that concerned about having a winning team in the end any way. They get way to attached to certain players they adore and coaches they adore as opposed to the logic of building an over all great team. The Andre Johnson thread from last season was a perfect example of that where half this board was cussing and screaming at anyone who suggested that AJ had lost a step and was still calling him elite. There was another thread where tons of guys openly admitted to wanting to pay him that $14 mill this season that his contract would have given him. When you suggest things like that, it is not really debatable that your bigger desire is to watch superstars play over a winning team.

 

[Texecutioner]

You're missing the point. I'm not talking "easy," I'm talking "attainable." Championship QB's are attainable, and if we don't have one after 14 years, change your GM/scouting personnel before trading historically phenomenal players.

I agree with this part completely. I think the notion to trade him is silly, but this thread is more for shits and giggles. The Texans aren't trading Watt. No way that happens. It is more of a imaginary scenario.

I agree with the premise you made about the GM being really bad and not knowing how to draft a QB. I certainly don't want Watt going anywhere man. If it were for a guy like Rogers or tow or three others though, I'd have to make the decision that betters the entire team though if that were there.

 

[Hervoyel]

The other thing about getting one is that when you do get a franchise QB he's going to be there for a decade plus barring injury (and that is always a possibility for any player). We got into a mindset (I believe) where after Carr we've made every effort to not go QB before competent line play. It's like we're scared of getting another champion pedigree "puppy" and getting him killed like we did Carr (and the punishment he took is very overrated after 2002 but I digress) so we seem to have this team philosophy now that it's sort of taboo or just a bad idea to draft a QB and then build around him. Maybe it's more of an aversion (and maybe it just seems that way to me) but either way we need to get that sorted out.

It's not forbidden to draft a QB and then fill in the pieces he needs to do some damage. You draft a QB and he's going to be here for a while. He can throw to Hopkins and some scrubs while he's learning the NFL game. We'll get him some more targets in the years after that. We can put him behind our line. It hasn't been epically bad in years.

I understand them not wanting to put the cart before the horse but that's not how this works. At least not the only way.