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Report: Brian Hoyer to be named Texans starting QB

I'm not saying it's this way for everyone, but when it comes to the unknown, fans generally tend to look only at the "potential" and totally ignore the opposite end of the spectrum. Coaches can't ignore that part of it. Fans have the luxury of riding it out if the unknown gets on the field and sucks. Coaches usually don't.

OB has more information on these two than anybody as far as it relates to how they should be expected to perform in this system. That does not mean he made the correct decision, btw. It's a calculated risk either way. You have an unknown quantity with "potential" and you have a known quantity with a less than desirable value.

The person in the best position to make the call just decided that Brian Hoyer's "consistency" (consistently average at best) is more desirable than Ryan Mallett's "potential". I know this is emotional for most fans but the decision is made and the only logical way to go from here is this:

A) Either Mallett's potential does not exist or the gap between his ceiling and floor is so wide that the risk is not worth taking, even when your next best available option is Brian Hoyer. That he couldn't beat out Hoyer tells you all you need to know about Ryan Mallett. He can be the backup or spot starter or whatever for the rest of the year. But he's walking after that.

OR

B) If Mallett leaves here and goes on to great things elsewhere that should tell you all you need to know about OB. We'll have to wait a little while on this one but if it happens then there is no reason for OB to be here.
 
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if OB just picked his starting QB from week to week based on the opponent and how the opponent's weaknesses stacked up to our various QB's strengths.

I mean, I know, that's crazy and he won't do it.

But I think OB just wants to win.
 
It's Kirk Cousins' syndrome lol. I remember a few years ago he came in for Washington after RG3 got knocked out...played pretty well in 1 game..had something like 300 yds passing and 2 TD's & looked pretty good. Redskins fans just like Texans fans here got seduced by the unknown & possibilities started to wonder out loud about his viability as a starter with RG3 coming back from the knee injury & struggling. Well in Cousins' 2-3 subsequent starts after that, dude's numbers got worse & worse culminating with a 30 something QBR in the last game he started.
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& that was the end of that...Folks were screaming for RG3 to come back after that Lol.
 
Mr teX said:
It's Kirk Cousins' syndrome lol. I remember a few years ago he came in for Washington after RG3 got knocked out...played pretty well in 1 game..had something like 300 yds passing and 2 TD's & looked pretty good. Redskins fans just like Texans fans here got seduced by the unknown & possibilities started to wonder out loud about his viability as a starter with RG3 coming back from the knee injury & struggling. Well in Cousins' 2-3 subsequent starts after that, dude's numbers got worse & worse culminating with a 30 something QBR in the last game he started.
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& that was the end of that...Folks were screaming for RG3 to come back after that Lol.
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Was Kirk Cousins a first round talent? And the Redskins were no worse off for having found out.

But no no, we'll go with Brian Hoyer. Say that out loud and feel satisfied.
 
WolverineFan said:
It's just funny to me that the same guys that are pissed about Hoyer getting handed the job are the same guys that had no issue whatsoever just handing the job to Mallett.
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That's all about seeing if Mallet can do better than what Hoyer did in Cleveland. Those guys do not believe Hoyer can be much better than he was in Cleveland. When I say "those guys" I mean me & several others.

Before Arian went down, it didn't matter to me. I assumed the offense would run through him & Hoyer would just have to take advantage of what the defense gave him. I felt like we could perform well against our schedule. Now... if Foster is going to moss significant time, we're going to struggle to get to .500 without a plus QB. I "know" Hoyer is not a plus QB. Let's see if Mallet is. If he's not, let's see if Tom is. Let's get all that out of the way so we can look towards the draft.

Maybe OB feels that way about Mallet. That's fine. But then it looks like we really screwed up the QB position this off-season. Pretty much threw away a year where we might have Watt next to Wilfork with a healthy Clowney on the outside, a healthy Cushing behind them, & the best secondary we ever put on the field.

Hoyer was always thought to be insurance. A "break glass in case of emergency" option. In our minds, we broke that glass & the season hasn't even started.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Was Kirk Cousins a first round talent? And the Redskins were no worse off for having found out.

But no no, we'll go with Brian Hoyer. Say that out loud and feel satisfied.
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Depends on how you look at it really. The Redskins have been a dumpster fire for a decade now & you're probably right about them being no worse off for having found out.....But just as Mallet could start and be the 2nd coming of Marino, He could also be the 2nd coming of Ryan Leaf too. Furthermore, The NFL regular season is 16 games & I doubt any coach wants to risk losing any of those precious games to "find out" something he may already have an idea about. For all the 2nd guessing of coaches and their personnel choices, those guys are generally pretty accurate when it comes to their assessments of players as starters...especially qbs.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hoyer was always thought to be insurance. A "break glass in case of emergency" option. In our minds, we broke that glass & the season hasn't even started.
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Hoyer was always thought BY SOME OF US to be insurance.

That doesn't mean OB thought that. Indeed, as some people have said, maybe Hoyer was OB's primary target this whole time. Maybe it does mean something that Hoyer is paid slightly more than Mallett.
 
So, OB is willing to give Hoyer up to 8 games of suck, then make a change...maybe. What if its suck3 games, mediocre 2 games, then suck 3 more games? So, when the inevitable change at QB is made, how far lost will the season be - and will OB say, "Well, got to try out Savage, now." How many games will the defense be able to win, or at least make interesting?

I saw enough of Mallet to at least have the hope most fans feel at the start of a season. Since Monday, I have gone from feeling hope about this season, to feeling the same crappy way Fitz and Schaub made me feel.

As things stand, I predict another wasted year, another #1 draft pick too middle of the pack to land a top QB prospect, and more draft picks on players that won't start or contribute much for several years. But they will all "be the best team mates they can be..."

Sorry, but the Kool-Aid some are drinking won't wash these feelings away.
 
Mr teX said:
In all honesty, you could say the bolded about every qb in the league. Last year in the playoffs we saw the best qb in the league throw a late game pick that played a signifcant part in his team losing..a game in which they pretty much dominated from the start.
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The repetition of this statement doesn't make it any more true.
– The QBs that hold the ball longer tend to face the highest percentage of pressure, and that’s generally the case at the top of the list. Robert Griffin III had the fifth-highest time to throw at 2.94 seconds while Russell Wilson was first at 3.18 seconds.

– On the other end, the faster the QB can get the ball out of his hand, the less pressure he’ll face and that’s why Peyton Manning and Andy Dalton faced the lowest percentage of pressure as they got rid of the ball in 2.25 seconds and 2.41 seconds, respectively.

– Including the playoffs, Tom Brady’s 2.36 seconds in the pocket was the second quickest behind Manning, yet he still managed to face very close to the league average when it comes to pressure (32% vs. NFL avg of 33.4%).
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Best/Worst Under Pressure


– In perhaps his best season as a pro, Ben Roethlisberger was the league’s best when pressured. He threw 11 touchdowns against one interception under pressure.

– Damage control was the name of the game for Ryan Tannehill who faced the eighth-highest percentage of pressure in the league, yet managed to rank third when normalized. For a quarterback facing that much pressure, his seven touchdowns, four interceptions, and 76.7 passer rating could have looked much worse.

– For the second year in a row, Eli Manning finds himself on the bottom end of the grades when pressured, though he faced the sixth-lowest percentage of pressure in the league.
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Best/Worst with No Pressure


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

You'll notice Hoyer in the Red...on BOTH lists.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And Fitzpatrick in the GREEN... on BOTH lists. And yet our fearless leader decided to trade up to Hoyer from Fitzpatrick.

Now, let's see what Hoyer does with OB+Godsey and what Fitzpatrick does without them.
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Fitz did say that he learned more in one year with OB and Godsey than he did in his entire career. There is hope.
 
WolverineFan said:
Which I have stated. Neither guy held an advantage, which is why the more experienced guy got the nod. I don't see what's so complicated about it.
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The complicated part is that's not what OB said. He said it was about consistency. You obviously don't believe that, we don't believe that, along with several other things he's said.

I don't see what's so complicated about that.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And Fitzpatrick in the GREEN... on BOTH lists. And yet our fearless leader decided to trade up to Hoyer from Fitzpatrick.

Now, let's see what Hoyer does with OB+Godsey and what Fitzpatrick does without them.
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Exactly..plus let's not act like none of us wouldn't take a Peyton manning in favor of Ryan Fitzpatrick b/c he graded out on this as better under pressure over manning. Circumstances matter. And outside of geno and a few others, Hoyer played under the worst circumstances imaginable.
 
Double Barrel said:
Re-watching that Broncos game last night made me realize that Mallett will probably get his shot this season. That offensive line is going to get Hoyer killed. Mallet had better have a quick release or Tom Savage will be starting this season, as well. [/prediction]
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I've never heard or read about Hoyer's release. Good or bad. Maybe there's nothing special about his release... if only we had a guy who had a quick release... someone who demonstrated the ability to run this offense at a quick tempo and demonstrated the ability to successfully read a defense and get the ball out quickly... on par with some of the best QBs in the game today... if only.
 
Under these circumstances, Mallet, according to OB, was told that the competition supposedly goes on and does not just cease now.................so, while being careful to still remain subtle, anything goes to regain the QB position.

3240786334.gif
 
thunderkyss said:
I've never heard or read about Hoyer's release. Good or bad. Maybe there's nothing special about his release... if only we had a guy who had a quick release... someone who demonstrated the ability to run this offense at a quick tempo and demonstrated the ability to successfully read a defense and get the ball out quickly... on par with some of the best QBs in the game today... if only.
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Up against mallet, Hoyer's release is noticeably quicker too.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Under these circumstances, Mallet, according to OB, was told that the competition supposedly goes on and does not just cease now.................so, while being careful to still be subtle, anything goes to regain the QB position.

3240786334.gif
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OB seemed to make it quite clear on HK. If Hoyer isn't getting it done, he could get yanked. I wonder where today's antics with Mallett leave OB. Maybe we'll get a little more insight on the next episode of HK,
 
DocBar said:
????? Are you watching actual games or slo-mo vids of Mallett? Mallett is very much quicker than Hoyer, imho,
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You beat me too it. In the Cleveland game Mallet was timed with an average of a 2.2 second release...........faster that the league's fastest release of Peyton.

Besides this, slow motion is what I have seen when Hoyer runs the supposed 2-minute hurry up offense. It's painful to watch.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
You beat me too it. In the Cleveland game Mallet was timed with an average of a 2.2 second release...........faster that the league's fastest release of Peyton.

Besides this, slow motion is what I have seen when Hoyer runs the supposed 2-minute hurry up offense. It's painful to watch.
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Was that a real game? Hmmm.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Besides this, slow motion is what I have seen when Hoyer runs the supposed 2-minute hurry up offense. It's painful to watch.
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When OB brought the offense to the sideline and chewed them out for moving too slow Hoyer was in at qb. "Speed this $41t up" I believe were his exact words.

I honestly don't have any expectations for him though I'm cautiously optimistic.

Just from the little I've seen he didn't look terrible. I know his past but with a new team I kinda give guys the benefit of the doubt. Hope the new situation is better.
 
Are we talking throwing motion or from snap to release? Throwing motion is hoyer. Snap to release mallett, but that means a lot of short stuff is getting thrown.
 
When you talk of release you're generally talking about throwing motion...so that's what I was talking about...and that IS clearly Hoyer.

Getting the ball out of your hands from the snap has more to do with the type of play being called..
 
Mr teX said:
When you talk of release you're generally talking about throwing motion...so that's what I was talking about...and that IS clearly Hoyer.

Getting the ball out of your hands from the snap has more to do with the type of play being called..
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That's what i think of when speaking release time. But ya never know unless its specified.
 
edit
oops, I see this is being talked about in the training camp thread, ignore.

so this is on the espn page, hmmm


Texans' Mallett sleeps through practice
1h
After losing the starting QB job earlier in the week to Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett missed practice Thursday morning because he overslept. Coach Bill O'Brien originally said the QB's absence was due to a "personal issue."
 
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With a question at RB and still some questions of the OL composition with its protection, our QB better have a fast snap to release time.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
If OB sees him as a flawed guy he must see some of that upside the fans see too, right? Otherwise, why is he even here?
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Mallett is here because he was "raised" in this offense. So he should have had less of a learning curve for him (Mallett) to climb than the three QBs who were here when O'Brien was hired.

I'm not convinced O'Brien takes much stock in this mythical "upside" thing. I don't ever recall him even uttering that word. "Consistency", "smarts", "team first" are the things I hear O'Brien preaching. Never heard him speak of upside. That's fan/talking head word.

And I'll say again, if O'Brien truly saw Mallett as the future, he would have gone hard after him last season - during OTAs or during the draft - and not waited until he could get him off Belichick's clearance rack for cheap. When you see your future franchise guy, you don't freakin' wait until he "goes on sale" to snag him.
 
ObsiWan said:
Mallett is here because he was "raised" in this offense. So he should have had less of a learning curve for him (Mallett) to climb than the three QBs who were here when O'Brien was hired.

I'm not convinced O'Brien takes much stock in this mythical "upside" thing. I don't ever recall him even uttering that word. "Consistency", "smarts", "team first" are the things I hear O'Brien preaching. Never heard him speak of upside. That's fan/talking head word.

And I'll say again, if O'Brien truly saw Mallett as the future, he would have gone hard after him last season - during OTAs or during the draft - and not waited until he could get him off Belichick's clearance rack for cheap. When you see your future franchise guy, you don't freakin' wait until he "goes on sale" to snag him.
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I think you're giving OB too much credit.

I don't think he's willing to go out on a limb for any of the qb's. He's just going to keep shuffling them around until one pans out.

He sees something in mallet and if it ain't upside then its something in him that makes him believe he should be the guy the season depends on if Hoyer goes down or falters.
 
Mr teX said:
Up against mallet, Hoyer's release is noticeably quicker too.
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Christ, you don't get it. Compare Hoyer to the rest of the NFL. Mediocre at best. That doesn't change just because Mallett wasn't good enough to beat him out of a starting gig.
 
DocBar said:
????? Are you watching actual games or slo-mo vids of Mallett? Mallett is very much quicker than Hoyer, imho,
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I think what he's talking about is in the practice sessions that they've shown where Mallett and Hoyer get the ball at the same time, they drop back, and almost invariably, Hoyer throws the ball first.
 
Double Barrel said:
Re-watching that Broncos game last night made me realize that Mallett will probably get his shot this season. That offensive line is going to get Hoyer killed. Mallet had better have a quick release or Tom Savage will be starting this season, as well. [/prediction]
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I suspect that the starting OL lineup will be better than the numerous mix and match lineups in the preseason. But I do think the strength of the OL has a lot to do with the success of the QB, no matter how much some say it is ALL ABOUT THE QB.
 
Malletts motion has a lot of moving parts to it. Big wind up and really drives off his back foot, thats where his velocity comes from.


Hoyers is more compact with a lower release point. Like comparing a ss to a pitcher.

 
xtruroyaltyx said:
If OB sees him as a flawed guy he must see some of that upside the fans see too, right? Otherwise, why is he even here?
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Mallett's here because he couldn't take a hint.

They wouldn't match whatever other offer he was given & he kept bugging, so they sweetened the pot a little. Still below his other offer. He thought it was some kind of test... maybe a test of how bad does he really want it. But they were saying, "We really don't want you. We'll take you, but would be perfectly fine if you weren't in Houston for 2015."
 
thunderkyss said:
Mallett's here because he couldn't take a hint.

They wouldn't match whatever other offer he was given & he kept bugging, so they sweetened the pot a little. Still below his other offer. He thought it was some kind of test... maybe a test of how bad does he really want it. But they were saying, "We really don't want you. We'll take you, but would be perfectly fine if you weren't in Houston for 2015."
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Why would they sweeten the pot if they didn't want him?
 
thunderkyss said:
Mallett's here because he couldn't take a hint.

They wouldn't match whatever other offer he was given & he kept bugging, so they sweetened the pot a little. Still below his other offer. He thought it was some kind of test... maybe a test of how bad does he really want it. But they were saying, "We really don't want you. We'll take you, but would be perfectly fine if you weren't in Houston for 2015."
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They didn't have any problems telling Dre to hit the road, or anyone else for that matter. This is more wild speculation.
 
sandman said:
Christ, you don't get it. Compare Hoyer to the rest of the NFL. Mediocre at best. That doesn't change just because Mallett wasn't good enough to beat him out of a starting gig.
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Who are you arguing with? Is there a post in this thread where someone has tried to convey that Hoyer is anything better than mediocre?

Everybody knows what Hoyer is and I don't see anyone denying it. It seems to me that the Mallett fanboys just can't accept that Mallett is in the same boat as Hoyer.
 
Nitrofish said:
They didn't have any problems telling Dre to hit the road, or anyone else for that matter. This is more wild speculation.
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They didn't tell Dre to hit the road. They told him they see a much smaller roll for him in the future, something other than starting receiver. He asked if he could go. Pretty much the same thing here. They had just signed Brian Hoyer to roughly $5M/yr while dangling $3M/yr at Mallett.

Before you tell me Brian Hoyer was worth $5M/yr on the open market, remember he just played out a 2 yr $1.9M contract with the Cleveland Browns ($900K/yr). & the Browns did not offer him a new deal. Ryan Fitzpatrick, who had a better year than Hoyer signed a 2 yr $7M contract with the Jets... pretty much Ryan Mallett money.
 
Nitrofish said:
They didn't have any problems telling Dre to hit the road, or anyone else for that matter. This is more wild speculation.
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Almost as wild as thinking a few months ago that Hoyer was brought in to start.

I think if the Texans knew of the other offer and it was not a huge increase they would have matched it if they were enamored with Mallett. If they didn't match, it was clear they were OK with the risk of losing Mallett.

They may have found a way to save the money and keep their backup quarterback though - offer him a fair competition to start!
 
25lighters said:
Malletts motion has a lot of moving parts to it. Big wind up and really drives off his back foot, thats where his velocity comes from.
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Did you watch the video you posted of Mallett? That is not a big windup. And what they found exceptional was the speed he whipped his wrist which is where his power comes from.
 
ObsiWan said:
Mallett is here because he was "raised" in this offense. So he should have had less of a learning curve for him (Mallett) to climb than the three QBs who were here when O'Brien was hired.

I'm not convinced O'Brien takes much stock in this mythical "upside" thing. I don't ever recall him even uttering that word. "Consistency", "smarts", "team first" are the things I hear O'Brien preaching. Never heard him speak of upside. That's fan/talking head word.

And I'll say again, if O'Brien truly saw Mallett as the future, he would have gone hard after him last season - during OTAs or during the draft - and not waited until he could get him off Belichick's clearance rack for cheap. When you see your future franchise guy, you don't freakin' wait until he "goes on sale" to snag him.
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That is absolutely why Mallett is here. This is a complex scheme that requires more from the QB mentally than it does physically. Mallett has a head start on other applicants. So does Hoyer. That's why they were brought here.

You are right on with the upside comment as well. It's no fluke that the QB who made the creators of the system famous has about as little "upside" as any QB that's ever been drafted. This system was designed around Tom Brady, a guy who in his entire life has never had his name put in the same sentence as the words "upside" or "potential". He has never had more than average athletic talent, slightly above average arm talent, and he was openly mocked at the NFL Combine for his appearance and performance. But what words do people use to describe him? Consistent, smart, winner, competitive, hard worker, good teammate, etc.

Maybe that is the guy OB is looking for. Will he ever find him? I don't know. Doesn't seem all that likely. But that guy sure as hell isn't on the roster at the moment though, that's for damn sure.

Now this is just my personal opinion, but if Mallett was anything special he would have blown Hoyer away in this competition. He didn't. He didn't come close in fact. Now could you argue that he was better than Hoyer by a hair? Sure. I'm not sure I agree but a good argument could persuade me. But the point is that if he had any "potential" to be great he would have taken his one shot and made absolutely sure that nobody could make an argument against him. Instead, he kinda maybe did but also maybe didn't outperform Brian Hoyer over the course of an entire offseason.
 
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