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Pro Football refo: Texans vs Titans

R

Rey

Guest
Better from Ben

Lost in all the talk as to whether Ndamukong Suh kicked Matt Schaub in the groin, was the fact Suh destroyed Ben Jones. Well, Jones (+3.1) was much better in this one, with the only blemishes being a penalty for holding and a pressure on a stunt. Instead, his run blocking impressed, doing exceptionally well in the first half on a trio of pull blocks that highlighted his athleticism. This year has been hit and miss for the rookie, but Houston will be hoping this is a springboard to better things as we get to the business end of the season.

Struggling Off the Edge

Going up against a combination of Roos and Stewart is never easy. But you’d have be forgiven for thinking with Stewart limited to three plays there may have been something there for the Texans’ edge rush. There wasn’t. Whitney Mercilus (-3.7) produced an exhibition of why stats can only be trusted so much. He picked up two sacks, which is good right? Only both sacks were of the clean up variety, one of his pressures was unblocked and the other was the only time he actually beat a man to cause any pressure. That’s a terrible return on 57 pass rushes, beating a man just once.
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- Sophomore corner Brandon Harris was targeted seven times, giving up just four receptions but for 78 yards (though he did break up two passes).
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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/03/refo-texans-titans-week-13/


I looked...Didn't see this posted...

Please forgive me for my sin if it was.
 
Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
 
Rey said:
Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
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I'm not going to diss his performance, but increasingly I think teams are gearing up to stop Watt, sometimes with double teams, which may leave others relatively unblocked (or picked up by an RB). So to some degree, I think this is made possible by the presence of guys like Watt whom the other team has identified as the guy you won't let beat you. And yet he still does.
 
Rey said:
Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
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Barwin is freaking invisible now. I get stats don't tell the whole story, but they say something and he was not there.
 
Rey said:
Regarding Merci....That's exactly how I saw the game and I couldn't figure out everyone's excitement....

Going against a hobbled Tennesee unit I wanted to see more domination from the OLB's....I saw the clean up, chase down sacks after the QB began to scramble...Didn't see Merciless beat his man much....

He did play better than Brooks Reed as far as pass rushing, but that wasn't a high bar to jump...
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I don't know if I grade the same way as they do, or you do. I'd like to see him beat his man as well & chase the QB around. I didn't see that.

But I don't "take-away" points because of a hustle sack. A sack is a sack & it hurts just as much as a "he beat his man" sack. It's like batting the ball down or chasing the RB down on a screen.

And while he wasn't beating his man, he was pushing him back making the pocket smaller a lot. I was impressed with his strength.

I liked his energy & even without the two hustle sacks I think he did a better job closing the pocket than Barwin did. No one (other than Watt) gets a sack a game. That's not a requirement.
 
BigBull17 said:
Barwin is freaking invisible now. I get stats don't tell the whole story, but they say something and he was not there.
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I want to go back and watch him specifically over the last few weeks. It seems like he's being asked to drop in to coverage a ton. I feel like I see him 15 yards off the line of scrimmage. Almost like Wade wants to allow him to cover the tight ends so the safety's can blitz.

That strikes me as silly, but that's why I need to go look.
 
I know at least twice he forced Locker to step up into the pocket. One resulted in a sack by Watt (I believe) and the other that another DLman hit Locker just after he threw it.

Im sure there are more. He hasnt been crazy good but he got a few sacks and was around the ball.
 
Fiddler said:
I don't know if I grade the same way as they do, or you do. I'd like to see him beat his man as well & chase the QB around. I didn't see that.

But I don't "take-away" points because of a hustle sack. A sack is a sack & it hurts just as much as a "he beat his man" sack. It's like batting the ball down or chasing the RB down on a screen.


I liked his energy & even without the two hustle sacks I think he did a better job closing the pocket than Barwin did. No one (other than Watt) gets a sack a game. That's not a requirement.
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I think they are taking away points on plays where he was innefective or got handled by the o-linemen. I doubt they are taking away points for what basically amounts to a hustle sack...or a sack caused by another player flushing the QB to them...

And while he wasn't beating his man, he was pushing him back making the pocket smaller a lot. I was impressed with his strength.
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JMO, but I think you are confusing strength with speed/quickness. Merciless has more quickness than Barwin and Reed by a long shot. It's not even close at this point.

When you get up field fast on a tackle, you make them slide faster and farther back. When an OL is overly concerned about your quickness on the edge it's easier to catch them off guard/off balance and beat them with a bull rush...

They are sliding back really fast and then all of a sudden you get into their body and just use momentum against them....

But if all that means is that you catch them off guard a little, but they quickly recover and just stonewall you right there, then it doesn't matter....


Look at outside pass rushers from other teams. Look at how many times they actually beat the Tackles...Sacks aside...Just look at how much they beat them.

Our outside guys aren't doing it nearly enough.

Thing with Merciless is that, IMO, he wasn't great at it but 1) he has the most room to improve 2) he's already better than Reed or Barwin....but that aint saying much
 
ChrisG said:
I know at least twice he forced Locker to step up into the pocket. One resulted in a sack by Watt (I believe) and the other that another DLman hit Locker just after he threw it.

Im sure there are more. He hasnt been crazy good but he got a few sacks and was around the ball.
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That's why evaluating performance can be very problematic. There are many ways you can help influence a play to become a sack, incompletion or interception without having any statistics that acknowledge your role in helping someone else generate stats for themselves which help the team overall.
 
I heard Lance Zierlein say Mercilus might be the best OLB on the team at this point, so I'm going with that, FWIW...
 
michaelm said:
I heard Lance Zierlein say Mercilus might be the best OLB on the team at this point, so I'm going with that, FWIW...
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From same article...

Struggling Off the Edge

Going up against a combination of Roos and Stewart is never easy. But you’d have be forgiven for thinking with Stewart limited to three plays there may have been something there for the Texans’ edge rush. There wasn’t. Whitney Mercilus (-3.7) produced an exhibition of why stats can only be trusted so much. He picked up two sacks, which is good right? Only both sacks were of the clean up variety, one of his pressures was unblocked and the other was the only time he actually beat a man to cause any pressure. That’s a terrible return on 57 pass rushes, beating a man just once.
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ChrisG said:
I know at least twice he forced Locker to step up into the pocket.
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I don't specifically remember those plays and I won't dispute that...

Having said that, forcing a guy to step up into the pocket is not anything special.
 
TejasTom said:
Barwin and Reed aren't even getting the clean up sacks, so that makes Mercilus the best.
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Mercilus is the best pass rushing OLB on the team at this point because he has something neither one of them have. Quickness and good speed.


Last year when Reed was getting these same types of sacks I expressed concern over his lack of beating people. Last year when you had a segment of fans wanting Reed over Mario because he had some sacks in pre-season I again expressed concerns over Reed because OL got their hands on him and pretty much controlled him.

Getting clean up sacks usually come against bad QB's that roll out of the pocket and fail to throw the ball away...And QB's that like to scramble...

This next game will be a big test for Merci and all of our OLB's because they will need to consistently beat guys if we are going to have a chance to slow down Brady.

Either that or Watt is going to have to have a monster day.

And I don't like having to rely on Watt game in and game out. He should be the player that puts our defense over the top that makes us dominant. Not the player that has to carry us. Because if he goes down ********Knock on Wood********This pass rush becomes....

Well...I don't want to think about it.
 
noxiousdog said:
I want to go back and watch him specifically over the last few weeks. It seems like he's being asked to drop in to coverage a ton. I feel like I see him 15 yards off the line of scrimmage. Almost like Wade wants to allow him to cover the tight ends so the safety's can blitz.

That strikes me as silly, but that's why I need to go look.
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He does have coverage responsibility some.
We also ask him to do a lot of different things that take away from his pass rush.

In his capacity within the scheme, I think it's unrealistic to ask to average more than 2.5 QB disruption per game. I think 2 is more realistic, really.
 
Nice to see the game is starting to slow down for Ben Jones. Veteran O-lineman have good things to say about his mental game, and they've apparently taken a shine to him -- he's a bit of a character.

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Think of it this way.

We get 2 QB disruptions from each of the front 5.
Watt makes up for the interior guys.
(Not even counting that there was a Lille rotation at OLBs).

We should get at least 3 from the combination of the back 6.

That's 13 per game.

The opponents have been averaging 40 pass attempts.

That's pretty close right there to the 1/3 we got from last year when we led the league in QB disruption.

The next one is at 25%

Thus, I think it is unrealistic to ask Barwin to get more than 2 per game in our scheme.
 
Not counting the Titans game in which a lot of people showed up (no numbers on them except in my game breakdown,) Barwin had recorded 10 QB knock downs, 14 pressures, 2 sacks, and 3 batted passes in 11 games.

That's what? 29 total and more than 2.5 per game.
 
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