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How do you feel about Kubiak?
- Thread starter Rey
- Start date
Well...
That was part of his point...
Kubiak had not done anything miraculous the past few seasons he was here...He did give him credit for keeping the offense functional and keeping the team playing hard despite injuries, but he was basically saying that he didn't think he was a well rounded head coach. He said he was a brilliant offensive mind, but he would need to see more seasons like this one (perhaps one without Wade) to be convinced that Kubiak had actually morphed into a good head coach and deserved coach of the year.
I didn't agree with some of what he said, but I thought he made some good points.
I'll just be honest...The more I have thought about it, the more scared I am of this team without Wade (or a D cord of his caliber)...Just seems like the team played differently when Wade was gone and he was the main attraction again.
I'm surprised at your vote TK...
I took you for an ardent Kubiak supporter.
I'm actually kind of surprised by the votes in general. I thought more people would have voted that he deserved a one year grace period based on this year.
In the ultimate terms of Ws & Ls, you're correct. However, when looking at the big picture, from a franchise's perspective, mildly successful?
Maybe?
We've got a great foundation with a young core.
Nothing's guaranteed. However, this pretty much describes our future outlook at this time.
All those guys love Kubiak.
But they played their asses off for Wade's approval..... they played for Wade. Take Wade away & they have to find another reason to put it all on the line. Which is why I think it was bull**** to think Wade interviewing with TampaBay was not a distraction.
The way Wade handled the situation, as if he was unaware of the distraction it would cause... leads me to understand why he shouldn't be a head coach. I doubt Wade could have kept this team together with what they've been through the 5 seasons prior.
But Kubiak did.
Most people do. My arguments are usually about providing balance to the conversation. The anti-Kubiak rhetoric has been so out of whack for so long, I'm usually trying to provide Kubiak-pro arguments.
The man has his weaknesses, but so do all head-coaches. Bellichick, Billick, Parcells, JJohnson, Crennel, Fox, Rex, etc... ain't none of them perfect.
Are his weaknesses so big that they'll keep us from reaching the Super Bowl? Are they so big they'll hold this team back from multiple play-off appearances? Are they so big they'll prevent this team from multiple back-to-back winning seasons?
We'll see.
First of all we didn't need Wade. We NEEDED a good defensive coordinator. Wade Phillips was the best one available. I am tired of fans believing it was Wade that did everything. He fixed the defense. That's it. When we had all those mediocre seasons we had mediocre to poor defense. We have been a top 10 offense in every season since 2007. Top 5 since 2008. Wade had nothing to do with offense. That was never our problem.
Every coach needs a great supporting cast.
Belichick hasn't won a SB since Charlie Weis left. He hasn't won a playoff game prior to this season (if you want to count Denver because they will probably lose to the Ravens) since Josh McDaniels left.
Peyton was 7-9 and 8-8 in the 2 seasons prior to his hiring of Gregg Williams. He won the SB the next year.
Pittsburgh Steelers have Dick Lebeau.
You can make the argument that none of these coaches would have done anything with the supporting cast that they made the accomplishments with.
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bckey
All Pro
For once I totally agree with you. Great post!
mattieuk
All Pro
Kubiak has to deliver playoff football again next year - simple. We don't make the postseason again, and he is gone. As far as I'm concerned, the playoffs is a different beast - anything can happen in one game. Kubiak should, and must be judged on what he does over the first 16 games of the season. If we win the division again - give him the multi-year contract. If we don't - after making the playoffs the year before with multiple injuries - he would be toast.
I hope he is here for many years to come, and his hands start to get weighed down with Superbowl rings.
I hope he is here for many years to come, and his hands start to get weighed down with Superbowl rings.
Scooter
Funky
how do i feel about kubiak? read all of the posts here and among other teams' forums quoting "most complete team in football" and "starting qb away from the superbowl" to know how i feel about kubiak.
kubiak's not the best head coach ever, never will be. what he is is a great offensive coach and someone that all 53 will fight for every single day. a fan favorite here (bill cowher) is only half of that. in the past 3 seasons we've had the league leading passer, the league leading receiver, the league leading rusher, and the "best offensive line in football" ... that's how i feel about kubiak.
wade phillips is alone with dick lebeau among truly great defensive coordinators, and we need to give him king midas money to stay here, but look what he's working with. all but 3 (4 once mario went down) of wade's players were already here - kubiak put that talent on defense together by turning lemons into all pros on offense and giving the defense a sh*t-ton of resources. that's how i feel about kubiak.
i've preached for years that i'm here for the long haul, give him time because he's doing it right and building over from the draft. once our picks get closer to becoming vets we'll be dominant. well, our 2006 draft is now in their prime as young veterans ... how's our roster look?
edit: i come across as a bit angry when i drink lol.
kubiak's not the best head coach ever, never will be. what he is is a great offensive coach and someone that all 53 will fight for every single day. a fan favorite here (bill cowher) is only half of that. in the past 3 seasons we've had the league leading passer, the league leading receiver, the league leading rusher, and the "best offensive line in football" ... that's how i feel about kubiak.
wade phillips is alone with dick lebeau among truly great defensive coordinators, and we need to give him king midas money to stay here, but look what he's working with. all but 3 (4 once mario went down) of wade's players were already here - kubiak put that talent on defense together by turning lemons into all pros on offense and giving the defense a sh*t-ton of resources. that's how i feel about kubiak.
i've preached for years that i'm here for the long haul, give him time because he's doing it right and building over from the draft. once our picks get closer to becoming vets we'll be dominant. well, our 2006 draft is now in their prime as young veterans ... how's our roster look?
edit: i come across as a bit angry when i drink lol.
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SuperSerial
Practice Squad
Holy cow I sure hope he won't have a losing record after next season.
Comparing him to BB is weak. For every BB, there are a hundred others who stunk it up in their first few years and continued to stink it up or just fizzed out. Don't forget to remind the jury about the hundred others. Then again, you might not win the court case if you don't twist the facts.
I am not comparing him to Belichick. You are comparing Kubiak to Belichick. Belichick has a 17 year body of HC work. Kubiak has 6 years of HC work. I am comparing their first 6 years. Belichick had a worse record, the same amount of playoff wins/appearances. Kubiak has 1 division title in that span (0 for Belichick). You are using the benefit of hindsight. I am saying look at their 1st 6 years (since Kubiak does not have another 11 to compare to BB). Do you seriously think coaches immediately experience success in their early years?
My point is that it takes time for a coach to win in this league (especially when they have to build a franchise). I don't think anyone can argue that Kubiak has done a great job building this franchise into a contender.
Correct on all points.
Must spread rep.
It will be interesting to see who replaces Williams in New Orleans and how they fare next season.
The major failure of Kubiak's "term" is that he didn't do sufficient research in order to get a high quality defensive mind to run our defense.
What facts did he "twist"? Just because the truth doesn't suit your side of the argument doesn't make it untrue.
Steve Spagnuola is the new DC in NO.
Yeah I believe he deserves criticism for the questionable hiring of Frank Bush. But the only thing that kept us out of playoffs and from being contenders was a solid defense. I hope he learns from this in the future (just in case Wade leaves). Other than that I think he has done an exceptional job with the franchise.
wildroot
Rookie
You know, people say this but every year there's a Jim Harbaugh that comes in as a first year HC and sets the league on it's ear. It's too late to talk about replacing Kubiak now. We've already gone through the long and tidious rebuilding job that only happens in Houston. OK, we're there...Gary got his six (6!) years to turn this team around. That much time is plenty for probably anyone to turn a team around, it's just that in this day and age there are so many really good HC's out there that can do it in much less time, or at least aren't given an eternity (in football years) to do the job. The belief was that if we replaced Kubiak 2 or 3 years ago we'd go into a major re-re-building process....again, see Jim Harbaugh (SF 49ers) Sometimes the team has the talent everywhere but at the top. Although I give the team all the props for winning the South Division, let's be honest....the Division all but imploded on it's own leaving us sort of holding the trophy. But I'd wait and see what happens next year before I'd extend him again.
I'd like to see what we can do with a healthy Matt Schaub in the playoffs.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I just punched myself in the junk!!!OUCH!!!! *no children this year!*
You would have a good point, except Jim Harbaugh did not build that franchise...
...Jim Harbaugh came into a good situation. The 49ers were essentially the Texans of the NFC for the past 4 seasons. Good talent on the roster, but just not getting it done on the field. He deserves credit for getting them to believe, but not the credit for building that team. Nice try though.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
I've got to be honest, I wouldn't have extended Kubiak after 9-7, I'd have left him on the hotseat through 6-10, and I'd have therefore fired him before 10-6.
I saw progress throughout his tenure up till this season, I saw him building talent on the roster and I saw the team slowly improve, far too slowly for my likeing at the time though.
Now that we've got to where we are I see that I'd have been in the wrong, yet I still wouldn't mortgage the house on his coaching style leading us to a decade of domination in the AFC South.
I still see a lot of things that worry me, like his playcalling tendencies when under pressure, for instance. He hasn't shown me that he can go out and spend a top pick on an offensive skill player and find real value yet, which he's going to need to do now.
With all that said, the future looks brighter now than its ever done, it's really hard not to think, from a fans perspective, that this team could be heading to the Superbowl in 12 months time, and thats down to the job Kubiak has done.
I saw progress throughout his tenure up till this season, I saw him building talent on the roster and I saw the team slowly improve, far too slowly for my likeing at the time though.
Now that we've got to where we are I see that I'd have been in the wrong, yet I still wouldn't mortgage the house on his coaching style leading us to a decade of domination in the AFC South.
I still see a lot of things that worry me, like his playcalling tendencies when under pressure, for instance. He hasn't shown me that he can go out and spend a top pick on an offensive skill player and find real value yet, which he's going to need to do now.
With all that said, the future looks brighter now than its ever done, it's really hard not to think, from a fans perspective, that this team could be heading to the Superbowl in 12 months time, and thats down to the job Kubiak has done.
What's you definition of a top pick? Because I don't even think we spent a 1st round pick on an offensive player during Kubiak's tenure. Also, we got Ben Tate in the 2nd round if it means anything.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Is trotting out the same knucklehead and expecting that same bum to win the #2 receiver position really "learning from past mistakes?"
The only person who really learned from past mistakes was Bob McNair, when he went over his coach and G.M. and hired a experienced Dcoord who had a proven track record and didn't just settle for another F.O.G.
I'm willing to give Kubiak a extension and I'm willing to give him some more time, but I'm not ready to act like he's turned a corner coaching wise or someone who's "learned from past mistakes". He still has to prove that.
wildroot
Rookie
Jim Harbaugh took a perenial loser team (at least for the last 6 or 7 years) and turned it into a NFC Title contending team in ONE year....and that would be a year without a TC, a new system etc...he should get all the credit for making the pieces work. Dudes an incredible coach.
Seems like no matter with which team one tries to compare us to after a coaching change, be it N.O. when Peyton took over, the Jets when Ryan took over or SF when Harbough took over for some reason the response is always that Kubiak had it way tougher. No one would have looked at the SF team last year and seen a NFC championship contending team. Only now that it's come to pass do some people say that the talent was there all of the time. Yeah, we all knew Alex Smith stood shoulder to shoulder with Brady, Drew and Eli all this time right?
wildroot
Rookie
Let's don't forget it was McNair that went out and hired Phillips, if it was up to Kubiak we'd still probably have Bush out there. He kept Richard Smith at least a year too long before finally cutting him loose.
.
What have the Texans been in the past 10 years (let alone 6 and 7)? Like I already said he got into a good situation. The teams was already stacked, he only had to get the guys to buy in. He did a good job in doing it. That's it though. He didn't build the team. He just got the guys to buy in.
They were the favorites to win the NFC West for the past few seasons. Sound familiar? I guess you were the only person that didn't realize they actually had talent on their team for the past few year. They just needed someone to put it together.
wildroot
Rookie
Duane Brown.
Well he said offensive skill player. So I thought that meant someone who handles the rock.
That's because it's true.
How many of the players that were here when Kubiak came in in 2006 are still here? Only Andre Johnson. Just one guy worth keeping out of the 53 man roster Kubiak inherited.
How much of the personnel did Payton (Peyton is the QB) have to turn over? Rex Ryan? Jim Harbaugh came into the best situation of all. I can't think of anyone Harbaugh had to replace.
Now I do give Harbaugh credit making better use of the strengths of that team and for teaching Alex Smith the tricks to being a smarter QB. Hell, maybe that's all 'Frisco needed... a smarter offensive.
But to say Kubiak and the other coaches came into equivalent situations and therefore the turnarounds should have taken the same short amount of time is not doing one's homework.
Kinda like those talking heads who assumed that the Niners had no talent and were doomed to the cellar again. They didn't look close enough.
I always hear this, but I'm not sure what it means.
Those guys aren't here because kubiak wanted it that way. Kubiak didn't make it happen with the guys he had so he turned the roster.
I'm not saying the roster was super talented, but he didn't elevate their level of play much. And 2006 was 6 years ago. How many teams have a large number of their players from 6 years ago?
Kubiak could have been fired after last year and very few would have felt it was unjust.
Regardless of how hard he had it, the guy has gotten six years. He should thank god McNair is who he is.
I like kubiak a lot, but I'm still very skeptical of him as a headcoach. I want a superbowl. Can kubiak get us there. I hope so.
Then we're of similar mindset. Because that's exactly where I am. If Kubiak had gotten fired after backsliding to 6-10, I would not have been surprised. And he still does things in his gameplan I don't agree with. Like not using Tate more during the course of the game to make sure Foster had fresher legs down the stretch.... just to name one thing...
I think we're all hoping Team Wary takes us to a Super Bowl or two before it's all said and done.
LongTimeLurker
#1 UTSA Fan
i want him as long as wade can be DC
eriadoc
Texan-American
When a good poker player rakes a pot and gets ahead of the curve, he starts to bully the table. He uses his stack size to dominate the table to the point where it isn't even about the cards in his hand anymore. A bad poker player will win a big hand and then sit on his stack. The good poker player can burn out on an all-in, but it's not as likely as that bad poker player's stack slowly dwindling away, which is a certainty.
You decide which poker player Kubiak is.
You decide which poker player Kubiak is.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
I was looking for "Meh..."
I don't think we can tell from what we've seen. It's a totally different game.
I also don't think the chances are greater that the bad poker player's stack will dwindle before the good poker player gets burned on an all-in.
Unless you're saying most of the poker players on WSOP are bad players.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Then you haven't spent any significant time at a poker table. The WSOP has nothing to do with it.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Given time the bad player will end at zero. The all in burn by a pro so long as he has the bankroll will win out in the long run. The reason is the good player isnt just going to go all in on bs and given enough run time the math should work in the favor of those who know the odds
eriadoc
Texan-American
Yep. Anyway, the point of the analogy wasn't to get all in depth about poker play. It's just to say that the best players in the world play aggressively. There's nothing you hate more than watching a good player take a guppy's chip stack, because you know he's going to use it all night long against the rest of the table. If the guppy gets lucky and wins a big hand, you're pretty happy, because that means you have an easier route to the player's chips he lucked off on. Kubiak turtles up and sits on his pile way too frequently and predictably.
When he sits down at the table of coaches, he has a hard time finding the sucker.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Yep, thats what I said, Duane Brown was a good pick and clearly shows good coaching, but wasn't a skill player, Ben Tate looks like a good pickup where we took him but at the same time he wasn't the top pick.
Kubiak has shown me that he's got caught up in taking the player with the highest ceiling in the first round before, and that has burned us because it doesn't take much account of his likelyhood of reaching that ceiling. Amobi Okoye? If Kubes goes out and takes a WR who, like JJ, who might be good in 5 years time if he changes his entire game, I'll be extremely disappointed in him.
This gets repeated all the time.
But he goes all half-back pass on us in Jacksonville & we call him an idi0t.
He's got Schaub airing it out to start overtime against the Ravens
He has Tj Yates throwing bombs despite Ed Reed bricking two possible INTs..
yeah, he turtles up all right.
I've said it before, I don't know so much about Kubiak being "conservative" hell, he needs Dennison to remind him to keep running the ball.
But so far, everytime he's tried to put the gas on the floor, Steve Slaton fumbles at the Goal line, or Chris Brown fumbles at the goal line, or Ryan Moats fumbles on the 1, or Schaub throws the ball directly at the defending player, or Andre kicks a ball off his knee, or Quin bats the ball into a WRs hands or some wild off the wall Rosencopter **** happens.
To me, this is akin to the "pro" not going all-in on some BS hand.
But that's just me. (By the way, I'm one of the guys who has yet to forgive Kubiak for the 2010 season).
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Welcome to the TexansTalk Poker Analogy Society! 
GP
Go Texans!
The play calling in the last two Texans possessions of the Ravens game bummed me out. It reeked of hurried desperation, when it should have been methodical and varied.
Ravens were giving up lots of shallow to intermediate stuff, playing their safeties deep and basically giving ground if we'd have taken advantage of it. We could have gained 10 yards every play. THEN you hit the double move or slant and go after you get to about their 30...Ravens would have tightened up and would have begun looking to stop the shallow stuff.
So for me, I scratch my head on where Kubiak's prowess went to on those last two possessions. Maybe he got tired and the fatigue of all they've dealt with just set in..."Ah to hell with it, just go deep to Andre, OK TJ? Sling it deep and let 'er rip." Those two possessions didn't look like the Kubiak I know.
If Kubiak brain farts on his offense personnel in draft, free agency, and current players...we're going to have a rough time. This is a guy who cut Hartmann and then fortunately brought him back after he realized what a mistake he made. This is a guy who also forces Jacoby Jones upon Marciano. Look, Kubiak is making that sort of personnel decision. It wasn't Marciano who cut Hartmann and it isn't Marciano deciding to leave Jacoby in as PR after botching a punt that led to the Ravens first TD. Kubiak has to make smart personnel moves. Period.
Can he do it? Or will he over-think it and try to be cute?
Kubiak has his team's loyalty. Beyond that, I'm a little shaky on some of the things he's known for doing year in and year out. How he handles the QB situation will be instrumental to our ( and his) success. He has to find more dynamic receiving threats too. And he has to keep his o-line strong and dominant again in 2012. He has a lot of work to do.
Ravens were giving up lots of shallow to intermediate stuff, playing their safeties deep and basically giving ground if we'd have taken advantage of it. We could have gained 10 yards every play. THEN you hit the double move or slant and go after you get to about their 30...Ravens would have tightened up and would have begun looking to stop the shallow stuff.
So for me, I scratch my head on where Kubiak's prowess went to on those last two possessions. Maybe he got tired and the fatigue of all they've dealt with just set in..."Ah to hell with it, just go deep to Andre, OK TJ? Sling it deep and let 'er rip." Those two possessions didn't look like the Kubiak I know.
If Kubiak brain farts on his offense personnel in draft, free agency, and current players...we're going to have a rough time. This is a guy who cut Hartmann and then fortunately brought him back after he realized what a mistake he made. This is a guy who also forces Jacoby Jones upon Marciano. Look, Kubiak is making that sort of personnel decision. It wasn't Marciano who cut Hartmann and it isn't Marciano deciding to leave Jacoby in as PR after botching a punt that led to the Ravens first TD. Kubiak has to make smart personnel moves. Period.
Can he do it? Or will he over-think it and try to be cute?
Kubiak has his team's loyalty. Beyond that, I'm a little shaky on some of the things he's known for doing year in and year out. How he handles the QB situation will be instrumental to our ( and his) success. He has to find more dynamic receiving threats too. And he has to keep his o-line strong and dominant again in 2012. He has a lot of work to do.
Even though this flies in the face of the "turtling up" accusations, I agree 100%
We got the ball with 2:52 left in the game, on our 28, with three time outs plus the 2 minute warning.
I was shocked, I was surprised. I thought with that kind of time, we'd small ball them to death. A little screen, an outside zone, we could have done anything we wanted. I was thrilled that Tj got the ball to Andre. I was not expecting the throws.... big throws. But I figured it would definitely open up the ground game.
Of course, I was a little knee-jerked when I saw the INT... "HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!!!" then I heard Kubiak explain it the next day. Said they were looking for one safety, man coverage on Andre. If that's what he saw, Tj was supposed to get the ball to Andre before the safety got there.
I rewatched it & sure enough Tj hesitated. Had he pulled the trigger earlier, it's plausible that we could have got the ball to Andre. It was a good call, just not executed to perfection.
GP
Go Texans!
I'm neutral.
He had a bit of an embarrassing moment this time last year when McNair had lunch with Bum Phillips and then Wade gets whisked into the d-coord chair. I mean, that was a HUGE slap to the face of Kubiak that McNair had to relieve him of that duty.
Next, Kubiak's gotta' play nice and hope that Wade works wonders with the defense AND that he (Kubiak) steadies the course for the offense. It has to be a perfect storm in 2011 for Kubiak to remain in good graces with everyone.
Throw in the injuries we had, which would have sunk any of the other 31 teams. I mean it. Would the Saints stand a chance with their 3rd string QB, no Will Smith, and many other key players gone from the lineup for 3 weeks or more at a time? I don't think so. Therefore, I think Kubiak's locker room standing with his guys is what got us the AFC South title and into round 2 of the playoffs.
I really think the Ravens game was the final straw for us. It was the ceiling that existed due to a long, long road of obstacles. What's terrible, IMO, is that had we beat the Ravens that day...and I don't think I'm being a homer here...I think we beat the Patriots and we're in the Super Bowl. But all in all, the ceiling was there and we couldn't bust through it. It gives all of them something to work for in 2012. They know this. They know it to their core.
Kubiak made Marvin Lewis look like Kubiak used to look before this season. IN the two playoff games, Kubiak made decisions on when to challenge and when NOT to challenge that he's never been able to do properly in the past. I think he raised his game. But he lost it in those last two possessions, IMO.
I wonder what 2012 brings? Hopefully fewer significant injuries and more of what we saw in 2011. Good time to be a Texans fan, for sure.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
On at least one of those slings, A.J. was supposed to be the decoy, but Reed faked out Yates and managed to recover extremely well when it looked to Yates like he couldn't. The pass is generally designed to go up the middle for about 20 yards (or so) to (I believe) Walter, but Yates took the bait and slung it to a A.J. By the time it got there, he was very-well covered. Point being Kubiak didn't call that play intending for the bomb that was thrown for A.J. Ed Reed is a master.