Once again now . . . do you keep Carr?

[Vinny]

The only problem I see with your second argument is that if the Texans end up with the #1 pick it would be very hard to not take Matt Leinart. There wont be another QB comming around like him for awhile.

Oh stop it....There are good QB's coming out all the time and most of us overestimate the value of the current crop of draftable rookies each year. There is no guarantee that Leinart will be a star in the NFL just like there was no guarantee that Carr was the next John Elway simply because he was the best QB in his weak QB class.

 

[Huge]

The only problem I see with your second argument is that if the Texans end up with the #1 pick it would be very hard to not take Matt Leinart. There wont be another QB comming around like him for awhile. Hopefully the Texans wont be in the possition to make a decission like that for awhile.

I say that if we do loose Carr and have a shot at Leinart, we take him and then try and trade back up into the 1st round and select one of the top 5 OT's in the draft. Our 2nd and 3rd round picks in recent history havent produced much, so giving those away to move back into the 1st round seems like a decent idea to me... but.. this is only week 6.. there's a lot of football left to be played!

I think Brian Brohm (Sophmore, Louisville who will probably come out early in '07) will make a better NFL QB than Leinart.

I'm just not sold on Leinart being as great as what everybody makes him out to be. I'd really like to see how he would deal with adversity (one of the most important traits of a QB). And because of the success he's had in college, nobody knows how he handles it. He simply hasn't faced any.

 

[HardKnockTexan]

Even if there are other QB's that will be comming out in the '07 and '08 drafts i am praying that the Texans arent in the possition to take them. I guess if there happens to be a draft loaded with QB's, like last years, and one falls to say around 16, then picking a Tackle first overall this year and grabbing a QB next would make sence. To be honest, I dont know enough about college football prospects to assume anything.

 

[mean mark8]

Even a fresher thought, why don't you get Tony Boselli to be the left book end?

Don't you know we only took Boselli with our first overall ever pick so that we could get to G. Walker and S. Payne? I mean, look at how well they've worked out too. The Jags must've known all 3 were injuries waiting to happen.

 

[mean mark8]

If not David, then who? Banks? Ragone?

Neither has shown much promise.

Ragone was the MVP of NFL Europe. Can you say Jake Delhomme? He won a World Bowl, the old name for NFL Europe, before being given a chance to take the Panthers to Super Bowl XXXVIII where his passer rating of 113.6 was the highest for a quarterback starting his first Super Bowl since San Francisco's Steve Young posted a passer rating of 134.8 in 1995 in Super Bowl XXIX. Young's performance also marked the last time a quarterback has had a quarterback rating higher than Jake's in any Super Bowl. I'd say that shows at least some promise.

 

[mean mark8]

The defense would play better if the DB's were closer than 8 yards to the line of scrimmage and if we tried blitzing or at least sending more than 3 to get pressure on the QB...

I am with you. Where are all of those exotic blitzes we heard about in the offseason? I remember the play against Big Ben where we only rushed 2 with 9 in coverage and he stood there 'til the cows came home before finding a receiver for a 20-yard gain. For crying out loud, where are our blitzes? Where are the fruits of our getting "faster" by lowering our 330 pound linemen to 315? Our defense has been bad since after our first year. We let Posey go to Buffalo after being our sack leader and waived Steve Foley so he could go on to become a Pro Bowler for the Chargers. Our Defensive staff hasn't got a clue just like our offense.

 

[exclude]

I would not pay ...let him go free agent and sign him for less in a month .

Why would he sign for less when teams like the Jets or Chicago or even New Orleans(doubt it since Brooks is till there for a few more years) would pay a premium for his services??? Do you really expect Carr's reputation and future is damaged severely to the point where he can't command premium dollars in Free Agency???

 

[exclude]

I am with you. Where are all of those exotic blitzes we heard about in the offseason? I remember the play against Big Ben where we only rushed 2 with 9 in coverage ....

That is the exotic blitz package your referring to...its called No Blitz...see really exotic and different

 

[Bobo]

Even if there are other QB's that will be comming out in the '07 and '08 drafts i am praying that the Texans arent in the possition to take them. I guess if there happens to be a draft loaded with QB's, like last years, and one falls to say around 16, then picking a Tackle first overall this year and grabbing a QB next would make sence. To be honest, I dont know enough about college football prospects to assume anything.

You certainly wouldn't want to take a OL with a #1 overall pick. You might want to trade down, get a boatload of picks, and then use them to get some OL help. But you don't want to pay an OL #1 overall draft money. There will be folks begging to get in position to get Leinart. Get some more picks and trade down. You'd still get the best OL around. But remember, the OL is one of the worst places to have a rookie. These veteran DL eat them for breakfast.

 

[Bobo]

The two different ways I'd handle it:

1. Keep Carr. Devote a lot of attention to the OL in the draft (draft at least 3 OL) and free agency. Put some real talent on the line and get somebody that knows how to coach it.

That scenario would require patience from the fans. It's not going to work right away but would be better for down the road.

2. Lose Carr. Do NOT draft a QB to replace him in the draft. It'd be pointless. Devote your attention again to the OL in the draft and in free agency. Start Banks/Ragone, bring in a cheap 3rd QB then look at drafting a QB in the '07 draft (as well as looking at another OL). By the time the '07 drafted QB is ready to take the field, the OL from the '06 class has had a year of playing together.

This scenario would also require patience from the fans.

Problem is which way do you go? That's a toughie.

I wouldn't take a QB in the draft for the forseeable future when you have Ragone. Ragone was a very good QB in college. If you would let Carr go, then you should give Ragone the reins. But if you did this, my feeling would be that you'd regret it because then Carr would go somewhere that did have some pass protection and he would tear you up and make you cry.

 

[Bobo]

>This scenario would also require patience from the fans.

Lemme get this straight. You expect patience out of people who want to fire a coach who has brought improvement to an expansion team every single year thus far after he lost three games they were expected to lose and lost only one game they were favored to win? Fat chance.

 

[outofhnd]

I think Buchanons lack of quality CB play has limited our ability to blitz in other words we dont have the confidence to bring the house because we leave ourselves vulnerable On the LCB side.

I didnt say the Coaching is Honky Dory but at the same time you cant expect in 5 years with the revolving door for players coming in and out to build a consistent winning franchise till you can build your depth.

See the NE Patriots in 1995 - 1999 Im sure there were critics saying get rid of belichek, look what happened there. it took time but they are now the premier team in the NFL we are using that same formula, But we do not have enough talent across the board to be that winning team year in and year out. Once we do get the talent in here via draft or FA we will start winning

 

[z0rpAn]

yes, you keep carr. As far as I'm conserned, you keep him on the bench until the O-Line shows that they can protect him.

 

[GP]

I guess we could keep Carr and then just cut AJ, DD, Dunta, Jabar Gaffney and every other star-caliber player we have.

Then, we could sign top tier o linemen with all that freed up money and stack the o line with the best line in the league.

Start Morency, Mathis, and other rooks and free agents to fill the gaps we created by dropping our star-caliber players.

THEN...we will see if Carr can play as well as all you Carr apologists claim he can play.

Would that satisfy all of you? I mean, if he had an all-pro bowl o line...would THAT be enough for you? Probably not. You'd just make the excuse that we don't have a RB or any WRs for him to throw to.

It's just always going to be something to give the golden boy a pass on his performances. As Dr. Evil would say: Boo friggidy hoo.

 

[GP]

Compare and contrast DD and Dunta against Carr, relating to their on-field performances as well as their overall attitude....

Just do it for me. One time. One game. Just watch. Please.

Teams keep bringing the house agianst Carr because they know there is a shaky line AND a guy who has lost touch on his passes and can't connect on anything but curls, slants, and dump-offs. He's buying what everybody is selling...instead of being like Dunta and DD and saying, "You know what? Heck no! I gotta get it done. It starts with me."

That's what Dunta said. Dunat said it starts with Dunta. Carr hasn't said that. If he has, show me. Nope. It's "....until I can get MY confidence up in THEM (WRs) then we don't have much of a chance." He'll sure as heck get happy when he scores a TD after a busted pass play--his fault for not being able to make clear cut decision and just THROW THE BALL--but if he gets sacked...it's shake-the-head and tilt the helmet back on the back of the head like he didn't do anything wrong. Makes that smirky face and casually walks back to the sideline as if the rest of the team just doesn't understand what he's going through.

You guys defending Carr TO THE HILT is just making me vomit. Some of you are saying it's 50-50 with the o line AND Carr...but the majority of you are just defending Carr to the hilt without even for one second admitting that he is also a very real part of the problem.

We have NO passing game, but DD racks up big games with 11 guys gunning for him on each play.

We have NO defense, and yet teams won't throw to Dunta's side of the field.

But they keep coming for Carr, and he keeps taking the bait.

1-2-3-throw the ball. 1-2-3 throw the ball. 1-2-3 throw the ball. Do it over and over and show the defenders that you can do it, and they will drop back into coverage, and guess what?...the field opens up a little bit, doesn't it?

Make a pre-determined decision and get rid of it. Until he does it with consistency, teams will not hesitate to storm the backfield. It's as much his problem as it is the o line. He doesn't WANT to attempt a deep pass, and even when he does...it doesn't resemble the poise and the touch that he was known for having in the past. Where did that go? Oh, I forgot: it got "beaten out of him" by the lack of blocking.

 

[Coach C.]

Personally I say we restructure Carr's deal and we ride his talent to the playoffs with new personell(coaches and front office) in place. Dont get me wrong what I have seen in Carr is likely right on. He does have all the ability to be a top 10 qb in this league. And throughout getting his *** handed to him on sundays he still post a quality QB Rating which is second only to wins. Carr has become gun shy, and that is bad for a gunslinger. He desperately needs someone to just say throw the rock. We dont care if you throw picks just throw the ball. It is the approach that Holmgren took with Favre and JJ took with Aikman. If we let Carr go I guarantee 9 other teams will be on his jock because he is a rare blend of athlete and gunslinger. Is he worth the 8 million HELL NO, but He will be.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Compare and contrast DD and Dunta against Carr, relating to their on-field performances as well as their overall attitude....

Just do it for me. One time. One game. Just watch. Please.

Teams keep bringing the house agianst Carr because they know there is a shaky line AND a guy who has lost touch on his passes and can't connect on anything but curls, slants, and dump-offs. He's buying what everybody is selling...instead of being like Dunta and DD and saying, "You know what? Heck no! I gotta get it done. It starts with me."

That's what Dunta said. Dunat said it starts with Dunta. Carr hasn't said that. If he has, show me. Nope. It's "....until I can get MY confidence up in THEM (WRs) then we don't have much of a chance." He'll sure as heck get happy when he scores a TD after a busted pass play--his fault for not being able to make clear cut decision and just THROW THE BALL--but if he gets sacked...it's shake-the-head and tilt the helmet back on the back of the head like he didn't do anything wrong. Makes that smirky face and casually walks back to the sideline as if the rest of the team just doesn't understand what he's going through.

You guys defending Carr TO THE HILT is just making me vomit. Some of you are saying it's 50-50 with the o line AND Carr...but the majority of you are just defending Carr to the hilt without even for one second admitting that he is also a very real part of the problem.

We have NO passing game, but DD racks up big games with 11 guys gunning for him on each play.

We have NO defense, and yet teams won't throw to Dunta's side of the field.

But they keep coming for Carr, and he keeps taking the bait.

1-2-3-throw the ball. 1-2-3 throw the ball. 1-2-3 throw the ball. Do it over and over and show the defenders that you can do it, and they will drop back into coverage, and guess what?...the field opens up a little bit, doesn't it?

Make a pre-determined decision and get rid of it. Until he does it with consistency, teams will not hesitate to storm the backfield. It's as much his problem as it is the o line. He doesn't WANT to attempt a deep pass, and even when he does...it doesn't resemble the poise and the touch that he was known for having in the past. Where did that go? Oh, I forgot: it got "beaten out of him" by the lack of blocking.

Totally agree. All I hear is if we give David this and this and this. When you pay top dollar for the top pick in the draft you expect output without major upgrades. Why did we draft him if we knew we would have to invest more? Who in the world drafts a project with the number one pick?

That is why it is evident to me that DC must go (and Cass), that is unless he want to renegotiate. We need value across the 53 man roster.

 

[infantrycak]

Totally agree. All I hear is if we give David this and this and this. When you pay top dollar for the top pick in the draft you expect output without major upgrades. Why did we draft him if we knew we would have to invest more? Who in the world drafts a project with the number one pick?

You're joking right? So all a team has to do to right itself from having earned the #1 draft pick is use that pick on a QB worthy of the spot. No other major upgrades needed, not even on a brand new team that didn't earn the spot because it didn't even exist. Carr is far from perfect but that standard is ridiculous.

 

[Coach C.]

You're joking right? So all a team has to do to right itself from having earned the #1 draft pick is use that pick on a QB worthy of the spot. No other major upgrades needed, not even on a brand new team that didn't earn the spot because it didn't even exist. Carr is far from perfect but that standard is ridiculous.

Infantry. I cannot believe you even wasted your time acknowledgiing such a post. You much be bored man.

 

[infantrycak]

Infantry. I cannot believe you even wasted your time acknowledgiing such a post. You much be bored man.

I was waiting for my daughter to get done in the shower. I'm done with it now.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

You're joking right? So all a team has to do to right itself from having earned the #1 draft pick is use that pick on a QB worthy of the spot. No other major upgrades needed, not even on a brand new team that didn't earn the spot because it didn't even exist. Carr is far from perfect but that standard is ridiculous.

Firstly, my expectations have been met year over in the winning column. Secondly, I am concerned about hitting eight wins this year. Finally, I believe Carr has done nothing to make anyone believe (maybe hope) that he will be the next big thing.

I respect anyone who does things outside of their profession and personal time to give back to the community. I appreciate and see value in the time that it takes to develop as an individual and an individual. However, when it has been 3.25 years and we see a regression in performance, development and leadership with the looming signing bonus on the horizon something needs to be said in order to begin earnest dialogue.

As far as my comment on major upgrades we had a percieved good expansion and rookie draft. We had a hotshot GM and expansion extraordinairre in Capers. Our needs were all over the place. They gambled on Carr in my estimation and they are about to be in debt due to this investment. Return on investment and total cost of ownership are in Mr. McNair's daily vocabulary and he ain't seeing it in the QB department. But to trivalize my drivel by insinuating I did not realize we were an expansion team is at best lame.

This is a business and I am a consumer of the product and own two licenses to boot. I want to see the Texans win and I really do not care what the name on the back of their jersey says just as long those parts get the results we are looking for.

 

[Bassinguy]

My gut feeling says that David can get it done with a decent o-line and a good QB coach. If they hired Kubiak, he could spend time with Carr and eliminate most of the problems. He definitely got 'em going in Denver. David has all the tools, he just needs a little direction. We need someone other than a defensive coordinator as a head coach. A good passing game helps with the running game, as it forces the LB's etc off the line to cover short routes, and forces the D-backs back into deeper coverage. Right now, D-backs are playing shallow because they are aware that Carr doesn't have time to go deep. I'd hate to see Carr go somewhere else and then become a super star QB. I do believe he has that capability, given a little direction by a quality coach. How about someone else's input on this thought?

 

[NFLforher]

You're joking right? So all a team has to do to right itself from having earned the #1 draft pick is use that pick on a QB worthy of the spot. No other major upgrades needed, not even on a brand new team that didn't earn the spot because it didn't even exist. Carr is far from perfect but that standard is ridiculous.

Yeah, she must be joking.

 

[crazy4u310]

Carr is NOT the problem.

Thats all I have to say.

 

[HJam72]

Carr is NOT the problem.

Thats all I have to say.

Thank you. That was very informative.

 

[osgom1]

Carr is good ... if he would only quit being such a WHINER !

 

[bckey]

Fast forward a few games. Lets say we are 0-6 and Carr has been sacked 40+ times already. Would Carr even want the $8 million option to stick around here knowing the OL is in such bad shape that fixing it will take at least the rest of this season and the next? Carr could probably get some decent coin with another team that has a good OL already. Is it fair to keep sending him out there to get slaughtered? Wait until game 6 with the Colts and Freeney. I've got mixed feelings on this one. On the one hand I like Carr and I want to see him succeed here. On the other hand is it realistic to think that he can succeed here with this thing we call an OL.

I think trading him this year is out of the question because the deadline is October 18th and we would only have seen Carr in 5 games this year. Probably not enough to do it without causing a riot. But what if Carr shows no improvement the entire season. Do we let him walk and get nothing in return? A trade could help both sides. We would gain draft picks and Carr would finally get the protection he deserves and a realistic chance to show he can/can't make it at this level. If we could some how get a #1 for Carr and get Leinart and a LT in the 1st round then the trade would be worth it. Sign a veteran QB to take the reigns next year and give the OL some time for rebuilding until you insert Leinart.

I am not a Carr hater. I have been a fan of his since day 1 even though I didn't agree with the pick. Carr has great character and I am sure he wants to succeed in Houston very badly. It just might not be possible at this point. If the Texans do opt to give Carr the $8 million then we better draft a franchise LT and be extremely aggressive in free agency to get this OL fixed. I mean signing lineman that are proven. Not no names that Casserly thinks are great bargains assuming Casserly is even around.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Fast forward a few games. Lets say we are 0-6 and Carr has been sacked 40+ times already. Would Carr even want the $8 million option to stick around here knowing the OL is in such bad shape that fixing it will take at least the rest of this season and the next? Carr could probably get some decent coin with another team that has a good OL already. Is it fair to keep sending him out there to get slaughtered? Wait until game 6 with the Colts and Freeney. I've got mixed feelings on this one. On the one hand I like Carr and I want to see him succeed here. On the other hand is it realistic to think that he can succeed here with this thing we call an OL.

I think trading him this year is out of the question because the deadline is October 18th and we would only have seen Carr in 5 games this year. Probably not enough to do it without causing a riot. But what if Carr shows no improvement the entire season. Do we let him walk and get nothing in return? A trade could help both sides. We would gain draft picks and Carr would finally get the protection he deserves and a realistic chance to show he can/can't make it at this level. If we could some how get a #1 for Carr and get Leinart and a LT in the 1st round then the trade would be worth it. Sign a veteran QB to take the reigns next year and give the OL some time for rebuilding until you insert Leinart.

I am not a Carr hater. I have been a fan of his since day 1 even though I didn't agree with the pick. Carr has great character and I am sure he wants to succeed in Houston very badly. It just might not be possible at this point. If the Texans do opt to give Carr the $8 million then we better draft a franchise LT and be extremely aggressive in free agency to get this OL fixed. I mean signing lineman that are proven. Not no names that Casserly thinks are great bargains assuming Casserly is even around.

I agree. I have been stern on Carr, but have always seen value in the Texans trying to renegotiate his contract and keeping him here. I just do not want to pay the guy 8 million for the results to date.

 

[Vinny]

Fast forward a few games. Lets say we are 0-6 and Carr has been sacked 40+ times already. Would Carr even want the $8 million option to stick around here knowing the OL is in such bad shape that fixing it will take at least the rest of this season and the next?

I think its the teams option...not Carrs. I believe that the figure can be renegotiated (so Carr can play hardball)...but if the team wants Carr next year its as simple as kicking in the option.

 

[infantrycak]

I mean signing lineman that are proven. Not no names that Casserly thinks are great bargains assuming Casserly is even around.

I am still just baffled that the Texans didn't (at least there wasn't even a whiff of a rumor about it) make a run at Houck. Three years of absolute sucking at OL and a personal directive from the team owner and zero interest in the best OL coach out there who wasn't even under contract. Yet another decision laying squarely at Casserly's doorstep. Houck has a history of taking rookies and later round picks and making great OL's. Heck he probably could have coached last year's OL up to get the best out of it instead of this coaching staff that has coached them up to get the worst out of them.

 

[GP]

"However, when it has been 3.25 years and we see a regression in performance, development and leadership with the looming signing bonus on the horizon something needs to be said in order to begin earnest dialogue."

-- Kaiser Toro

-----------------------------

Forget it, Kaiser Toro. You are wasting your time trying to talk logic. All everybody wants to do is lynch the o line day after day, placing their hopes and fears--"Hope" that Carr is as good as we thought, and "Fear" that he's not--into the o line. In short, people like Carr and defend Carr for his community outreach and overall character, which I agree is very commendable and worthy of recognition, but they do it at the expense of earnest and honest evaluation of his performances. A bad game here and there is expected of all QBs in the NFL, but since Cleveland...the guy has just had CONSISTENTLY bad games game after game after game. The Cincy game was actually his best performance, and it kept the score close because he didn't make bad decisions and he didn't panic. We almost had a great chance of winning it...and then you see his panic performances against Buffalo, Steelers, and Titans, and to both you and I it's very clear that he's regressing at an exponential rate.

But....trying to point that out to the rest of the posters here is just like it was when some of us were cautioning about their poor play in the preseason. And we all know how THAT was met: LYNCH MOB. "You're not a REAL fan! You should just go away! All you do is gripe!" Blah-blah-blah. Well, it's not griping when it's legitimate, and some feel the attacks on Carr are legit and some don't. I think it's in his hands.

He might pull it out, but it's up to him. No magical wave of the wand (especially the Seth Wand) is going to help Carr. He's got to help himself, and the way I view it...he's looking for help outside of himself, and he's lacking the personal ownership that players like Dunta Robinson possess. I cannot get around Carr's printed comments. He's dug himself a hole, with or without the help of a shaky o line. Let's see how he chooses to handle all of this. I am counting on him to reverse his attitude and see the light...but I must admit, and I would think most other posters in their heart of hearts do as well, that it doesn't look promising.

I held out hope that my preseason rants would be washed away by at least a semi-average game against Buffalo, and they weren't. And the continuing saga is proving I and some others were right. And that's not being a "Downer" to do that, IMO. It's being honest and saying, "You know what? It don't look so good, folks..." But the chest beating "Real fan, not a real fan" types will always find a way to villify an honest person who is just as much a "Real fan" as they are. It's just how the circle of life works on a message board.

I would hate to think that anybody thinks any of us fans, such as myself, hate Carr and wish that he would fail. I never have stated that I wished he would fail, and it's not in my heart. But what IS in my heart is for Carr to wise up, smell the coffee, and realize that he's not being the leader he was in the past. How did we win all thos games last year? What magically happened with the o line from the Cleveland game last year fast forwarded to now?

Asking these types of questions will get you flamed. Period.

 

[WWJD]

I am still just baffled that the Texans didn't (at least there wasn't even a whiff of a rumor about it) make a run at Houck. Three years of absolute sucking at OL and a personal directive from the team owner and zero interest in the best OL coach out there who wasn't even under contract. Yet another decision laying squarely at Casserly's doorstep. Houck has a history of taking rookies and later round picks and making great OL's. Heck he probably could have coached last year's OL up to get the best out of it instead of this coaching staff that has coached them up to get the worst out of them.

Agreed. The guy is an excellent coach. Wouldn't have hurt to have at least given him a call.

 

[infantrycak]

Forget it, Kaiser Toro. You are wasting your time trying to talk logic. All everybody wants to do is lynch the o line day after day, placing their hopes and fears--"Hope" that Carr is as good as we thought, and "Fear" that he's not--into the o line.

If in between writing your treatises you actually read other posts you would see there are plenty of people who are critical of Carr--they just aren't one comment ponies like some. And FYI, the OL which you evidently don't feel contributes to Carr's play at all is responsible for 17 of the 27 sacks so far. That is a pace of 68 for the season--that is more than any team last year and more than twice as much as the average, not good, but average OL gave up last year. But, nah, that isn't a problem. A halfway decent QB wouldn't be affected by that much less a good one.

 

[billtxus]

I don't for a minute believe the 0-4 start is all Carr's fault. Frankly I think we've been fed a bill of goods these past three years that "we are on track to make the playoffs".

But, Im not sure he is a franchise quarterback worth an $8M bonus.

Why for instance does he insist on throwing 2 yard completions to Davis when time is running out in the half/quarter. He gets in trouble and dumps it to Davis. Any HS QB knows to throw the ball incomplete rather than complete a pass and lose a lot of time for no real yardage.

Why does he keep running out of bounds with the ball, when he could just toss the ball in front of him out of bounds, and avoid the sack and loss of yards? He's out of the pocket so all he has to do is flip it in front of him on his way out of bounds.

These things drive me crazy with him. He may have the tools, but Im not so sure he has the smarts. Sure he could have used better coaching, but some of these mistakes are basic, and should have been learned in HS.

 

[infantrycak]

Why does he keep running out of bounds with the ball, when he could just toss the ball in front of him out of bounds, and avoid the sack and loss of yards? He's out of the pocket so all he has to do is flip it in front of him on his way out of bounds.

According to NFL.com Carr has been responsible for 3 of the 27 sacks this year due to running out of bounds.

 

[dmt217]

Carr is NOT the problem.

Thats all I have to say.

Well, according to some NFL employees, he is part of the problem….
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3392632

To Carr's credit, he takes a licking and keeps on ticking, but ask any coach or scout who watches tape of Texans games, and they'll tell you that he is to blame for a lot of the sacks.
One NFC coach who has watched tape of the Texans' games said this week that Carr has been hit so much that when he drops back and can't find a receiver immediately, he bails. That's a result of being sacked 167 times and getting hit many, many more.
An AFC personnel director who has watched the Texans says Carr has been hit so many times from so many angles that if he sets up and looks down the field and doesn't see a receiver, his head starts to swivel.
He feels the rush and instinctively expects to get crushed. When he bails, he might run right into a pass rusher. The blockers have no clue where he's going, so they don't know which way to try to take their man.

 

[Vinny]

The blockers have no clue where he's going, so they don't know which way to try to take their man.

I've been saying this for years.

 

[infantrycak]

For another way of looking at how truly horrendous the pressure on the Texans' passing game, whether it be OL,RB,TE or QB responsibility, let's look at sacks per passing play (attempts plus the sack plays)--for the top three most sacked QB's (no one else even comes close):

Carr 27 of 127 or 21% of the time a pass is called he ends up sacked.
Culpepper 20 of 153 or 13%
Bulger 20 of 225 or 8.8%

For contrast--some of the best QB's:
Manning 1 of 147 or .7%
McNabb 10 of 210 or 4.7%
Palmer 7 of 171 or 4.1%

Mull this one over. As a rough estimate, a QB probably gets hurried at least twice as many times as sacked. Now think about that 21% and a more normal 5-6%

 

[Kaiser Toro]

For another way of looking at how truly horrendous the pressure on the Texans' passing game, whether it be OL,RB,TE or QB responsibility, let's look at sacks per passing play (attempts plus the sack plays)--for the top three most sacked QB's (no one else even comes close):

Carr 27 of 127 or 21% of the time a pass is called he ends up sacked.
Culpepper 20 of 153 or 13%
Bulger 20 of 225 or 8.8%

For contrast--some of the best QB's:
Manning 1 of 147 or .7%
McNabb 10 of 210 or 4.7%
Palmer 7 of 171 or 4.1%

Mull this one over. As a rough estimate, a QB probably gets hurried at least twice as many times as sacked. Now think about that 21% and a more normal 5-6%

Thank you for the stats. But I just see a QB who plants his back foot and then runs if he can't pass to the receiver he is locked onto. I, nor anyone else, I belive, is suggesting that David is the reason for all of our problems. I just feel that there are many who believe that it is all the offensive line.

After 3 years of seeing the same results and belittling the O line, deservedly so, I just started watching DC more in the pocket and came to the conclusion that it is not all on the line when it comes to the passing game.

Right now I just want one win and I do not take care how we get there. If David plays the game of his life ths weekend then his performance will have helped achieve the result we all want and I will be extremely thankful.

 

[SESupergenius]

So the answer for Carr is to get rid of the football once he feels pressure. Ok let's got with that. Considering the lack of time he has to go through his recievers or let the play develope, we would be limiting ourselves to quick slants and dump offs. Oh yea, we already tried that. What this does is allow the defense to play closer in because they don't have to worry about anything over 10 yards. On top of that, Carr can really only make 2 reads at most. This is where the "locking on" fanfare will come from. This board would have a field day with it. I think Palmer was trying to do that, to shorten up the field and not take the sack, but with that leads to single looks and many interceptions, especially if your opponent KNOWS that you can't throw downfield because YOU HAVE NO PASS PROTECTION.

 

[U4ikrob]

Seriously I dont comprehend why the OC doesnt go to more Max protect [2 te] formations and use a base offense to force protection and give the QB time to go thru his reads. IT certainly would give at least 3 seconds to throw a majority of the time and granted it's a little more old school, but it's working in Washington for Gibbs and the over the hill bunch - why not a little more of that here?

 

[eriadoc]

I just feel that there are many who believe that it is all the offensive line.

I don't feel that it's all the offensive line. I do feel that it all stems from the offensive line (distinct difference), starting three years ago. And it's never gotten consistently better. Blame as much of it as you want on Carr, but the fact of the matter is, he's been trained to keep his head on a swivel. He's been trained to bail. He's been trained to get nervous after his first read ---

Because, just like Pavlov's dog, he knows what's coming. He's been trained.

What's been training him has to be changed before we get our next QB.

 

[infantrycak]

Seriously I dont comprehend why the OC doesnt go to more Max protect [2 te] formations and use a base offense to force protection and give the QB time to go thru his reads. IT certainly would give at least 3 seconds to throw a majority of the time and granted it's a little more old school, but it's working in Washington for Gibbs and the over the hill bunch - why not a little more of that here?

Because when they try it, it doesn't work for either the running game or passing game. Despite the extra TE's opposing teams are still able to rush only 4 and get pressure leaving 7 to cover 2--not a good equation. The run game has also gotten stuffed out of that formation. Both the passing and running games have been much more successful out of 3+ WR formations. Basically the pass rush comes just as fast but the running lanes are bigger for DD and Carr.

 

[GP]

It's 50-50.

50% Carr

50% o line

It takes two to tango, and I bet you'd see an instant jolt of pass protection with Ragone or Banks in there. Why? I would bet there is HUGE animosity between Carr and his o line right now. They won't say it, but it's there.

And since it's 50-50...neither side will be humble enough to be the bigger man/men and get negotiations started on rebuilding the relationship.

Carr struggles when he DOES have time...Then the line gets blown off the ball and Carr doesn't have time...etc.....etc....etc....

It has caused division among them, and I think you basically have confusion on everybody's behalf as to how to get the bleeding to stop.

But I do know this: It would help if Carr would stop making the ignorant comments to the press and just be the bigger person. We all KNOW he is the bigger person, and we all KNOW that the o line is shaky. It's not a big secret and nobody will really argue that the o line is NOT shaky. But knowing it doesn't always equate to stopping it. And that's where Carr has to be the bigger person and stop the pouting, stop the comments, stop the attitude, and (GASP!) every now and then raise a hand after he messed up and say, "My bad! That one's on me...."

That sort of thing goes a loooooong way to building bridges, even though it shouldn't have to be done. But being a leader means you can't always be right in what YOU think. You sometimes have to admit your weaknesses, your downfalls, and generally lower YOURSELF to raise others up.

Does the o line deserve to be lifted up? Nope. Not really. But it can't hurt to try. And along the way, Carr might actually see some of his mistakes and actually try harder to control what HE can control instead of pleading his own case after busted plays.

That's all I got. I don't what else to say on this topic.

It's 50-50. And they need to grow up and shake hands and start working like a team.

 

[SESupergenius]

Oh come on now, you are just spewing stuff out the bottom part of your shorts now. You are becoming worse than a soap opera with the "animosity" take by inserting your own agenda against Carr into the minds of what you think the offensive line is doing. Get real. There is no "conspiracy" against Carr by the offensive lineman, that's just plain whack. Carr has been owning up to his play, he's been trying to keep it civil by saying "we" as in we as a team. If he can say "I" while he's doing bad, he then can say "I" when he's doing good, and that wouldn't fly with the rest of the team I can guarantee you that.

Please go back and look at the games, and not only the sacks, look at the pressures, the miscues, the plays and the attitude of everyone. Carr is not going to hit 100% of the time, EVERY QB misfires. That is just weak.

 

[ocd]

do you keep Carr? heck yes

*****s here would say to get rid of Manning, Brady, Vick just because our O line sucks and makes the QB look horrible. Put Carr behind the line of the colts, patriots or falcons and then think about it.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I don't feel that it's all the offensive line. I do feel that it all stems from the offensive line (distinct difference), starting three years ago. And it's never gotten consistently better. Blame as much of it as you want on Carr, but the fact of the matter is, he's been trained to keep his head on a swivel. He's been trained to bail. He's been trained to get nervous after his first read ---

Because, just like Pavlov's dog, he knows what's coming. He's been trained.

What's been training him has to be changed before we get our next QB.

So under your Pavlov theory we will be a paying a dog 8 million?

 

[frequentfliertx]

I'm in David's corner. Actually I feel rather sorry for him. THAT OFFENSIVE LINE IS A PIECE OF ****! Every Sunday he's fighting for his life out there on the field. He's not to blame. How can he POSSIBLY be expected to play up to his full potential if he's not receiving the proper protection. In addition to that his receiving corps suck. The ball is thrown into their hands and they can't hold onto it. Sometimes he overthrows the ball, but no one's perfect.
Nuff said.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I'm in David's corner. Actually I feel rather sorry for him. THAT OFFENSIVE LINE IS A PIECE OF ****! Every Sunday he's fighting for his life out there on the field. He's not to blame. How can he POSSIBLY be expected to play up to his full potential if he's not receiving the proper protection. In addition to that his receiving corps suck. The ball is thrown into their hands and they can't hold onto it. Sometimes he overthrows the ball, but no one's perfect.
Nuff said.

Appreciate you saying Nuff.

 

[eriadoc]

So under your Pavlov theory we will be a paying a dog 8 million?

Actually, check back into the first couple pages of the thread and you'll see that I do not advocate paying him the $8 million. I maintain my stance that any QB put in our offense for the past 3+ years would be in the same position Carr is in. As sad as that is, you have to staunch the bleeding, both in play and in salary. Renegotiate his contract if he wants to stay, or let him go, whichever. Don't pay $8 million to something you're going to waste. Similarly, don't go out and draft a 1st round QB and pay $50 million or more before you are ready to protect that investment.