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Mike Sherman fired from A&M

Stemp

Stemp

Brew Master
Word on the message boards and Twitter-verse is that Mike Sherman has been fired / resigned as head football coach.

Top leading candidates to replace him are Kevin Sumlin and Jon Gruden and apparently one of the two has agreed in principle.

Word is, if it is Sumlin (which is expected) he would be announced after the C-USA championship game this weekend and would start right away, meaning an assistant coach would likely lead the Cougars at a possible BCS bowl.
 
Stemp said:
Word on the message boards and Twitter-verse is that Mike Sherman has been fired / resigned as head football coach.

Top leading candidates to replace him are Kevin Sumlin and Jon Gruden and apparently one of the two has agreed in principle.

Word is, if it is Sumlin (which is expected) he would be announced after the C-USA championship game this weekend and would start right away, meaning an assistant coach would likely lead the Cougars at a possible BCS bowl.
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If the last part ends up being correct, I am going to be pissed. This is just ridiculous. They need to stop allowing teams to talk to head coaches with a job until after the national championship.
 
That would be absolutely terrible if Sumlin turned around and did the exact same thing that Art Briles did. What a lousy kick to the gut that would be. Send the best team UH has fielded in well over 40 years to the first BCS Bowl game they've ever qualified to play in without their head coach and part of their staff (assuming he'd take some of them with him).

I'd lose all respect for him just like I did for Briles.

Hookem Horns said:
Why would Sumlin take a demotion from U of H to A & M? :kitten:
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Exactly. A&M is a coaches graveyard.
 
This is what happens in a BCS system. UH is not in a BCS conference and A&M is. Until the system is fixed, you will always have good coaches ditching top non BCS schools for mid level BCS ones.
 
Hervoyel said:
That would be absolutely terrible if Sumlin turned around and did the exact same thing that Art Briles did. What a lousy kick to the gut that would be. Send the best team UH has fielded in well over 40 years to the first BCS Bowl game they've ever qualified to play in without their head coach and part of their staff (assuming he'd take some of them with him).

I'd lose all respect for him just like I did for Briles.



Exactly. A&M is a coaches graveyard.
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As much as I love UH, having gone there for several semesters, I think the Coog fans need stop drinking the koolaid if they believe UH is better coaching job than A&M.

Not only will A&M more than double his salary, which UH couldn't even try to do, he'll be coaching the only Texas school in the best football conference in the country.
 
Doppelganger said:
This is what happens in a BCS system. UH is not in a BCS conference and A&M is. Until the system is fixed, you will always have good coaches ditching top non BCS schools for mid level BCS ones.
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Bigger fish often poach from smaller fish. Even if UH was in the Big East this year, Sumlin would still leave for A&M, OU, texas or even Baylor.
 
Stemp said:
As much as I love UH, having gone there for several semesters, I think the Coog fans need stop drinking the koolaid if they believe UH is better coaching job than A&M.

Not only will A&M more than double his salary, which UH couldn't even try to do, he'll be coaching the only Texas school in the best football conference in the country.
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I wouldn't be surprised if UH could in fact double his salary. There's a lot riding on that program at this particular moment. Moving to the Big East, continuing the process of getting the new stadium started and funded. It's not a matter of drinking the koolaid here.

A&M is a coaching black-hole and has been for years. Now that job doesn't even have the one truly compelling feature it ever really enjoyed: a game with UT. Who wants to be the first A&M head coach in over a hundred years not to be playing the most hated rival the school as ever had?

Without Alabama nobody would give a **** who Auburn was. Without UT there will be diminishing interest in A&M and that interest will be lessened even more as they enter the SEC where the next aggie head coach will be coaching the only Texas school in a conference it cannot hope to be more than an also-ran in.

Aggies are deluded about the appeal of their program and that job. If Sumlin wants to leave he can choose from jobs all over the country. If he wants to leave he's earned it I guess. We'll find another coach and keep trying to climb back up to where we belong. I just hope he doesn't screw his players over like Briles did. That would be unforgivable in my eyes.
 
Well don't give two cents who they bring in, just glad Sherman's gone... was begging for his head on a platter all year.
 
Hervoyel said:
I wouldn't be surprised if UH could in fact double his salary. There's a lot riding on that program at this particular moment. Moving to the Big East, continuing the process of getting the new stadium started and funded. It's not a matter of drinking the koolaid here.

A&M is a coaching black-hole and has been for years. Now that job doesn't even have the one truly compelling feature it ever really enjoyed: a game with UT. Who wants to be the first A&M head coach in over a hundred years not to be playing the most hated rival the school as ever had?

Without Alabama nobody would give a **** who Auburn was. Without UT there will be diminishing interest in A&M and that interest will be lessened even more as they enter the SEC where the next aggie head coach will be coaching the only Texas school in a conference it cannot hope to be more than an also-ran in.

Aggies are deluded about the appeal of their program and that job. If Sumlin wants to leave he can choose from jobs all over the country. If he wants to leave he's earned it I guess. We'll find another coach and keep trying to climb back up to where we belong. I just hope he doesn't screw his players over like Briles did. That would be unforgivable in my eyes.
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There is a huge difference between ATM and UH. One team is working on improving their facilities and the other already has and is still improving their facilities even more. One team is entering into a new conference and the other is entering the best conference in the entire country.
 
not sure how I feel about this.. on one side, he brought about massive changes to how our players acted and conducted themselves compared to the franchione era, but he also hasn't had the results except for 2010, so it's hard to truly say there's been a change. however, with myself saying that, I can just take a look at the team now and see the change in character, demeanor, and athleticism we have now compared to 2008. it's all very weird.
 
It seems every great player for A&M has regressed under Sherman. Tannehill was great last year; sucked this year. Gray was amazing last year; he was above average (not great or amazing) this year. Christine Michael was amazing his freshman year; has been injured since but not dominant when he has played. Even Fuller seemed to regress this year. I know he was injured but even when he was healthy towards the end of the year, he just didn't seem like the same dominant player. Same goes for Judie compared to last year.

Anyone else notice the same thing? It extends back further. Same thing happened to Jerrod Johnson (although there were shoulder issues there). It just seems like when the players really started to learn Sherman's system and should have gotten better, they got worse.
 
Oh sweet, hire Sumlin so that every school in the state can hate us! Great plan Byrne!

...

Sumlin is a big fish in a small pond making success with his predecessor's recruits. I don't like him one bit for any BCS school, let alone one in the SEC. This would be a terrible move for both A&M and Sumlin. I would much rather see them get the DC from Bama or another great SEC coordinator. We need a strong defensive minded coach if we want to compete in the SEC by 2015...
 
Should A&M goes after Sumlin, UH should go after Sherman and install ZBS.
This way we have better chance watching home grown play for the Texans!!!
 
Hervoyel said:
I wouldn't be surprised if UH could in fact double his salary. There's a lot riding on that program at this particular moment. Moving to the Big East, continuing the process of getting the new stadium started and funded. It's not a matter of drinking the koolaid here.

A&M is a coaching black-hole and has been for years. Now that job doesn't even have the one truly compelling feature it ever really enjoyed: a game with UT. Who wants to be the first A&M head coach in over a hundred years not to be playing the most hated rival the school as ever had?

Without Alabama nobody would give a **** who Auburn was. Without UT there will be diminishing interest in A&M and that interest will be lessened even more as they enter the SEC where the next aggie head coach will be coaching the only Texas school in a conference it cannot hope to be more than an also-ran in.

Aggies are deluded about the appeal of their program and that job. If Sumlin wants to leave he can choose from jobs all over the country. If he wants to leave he's earned it I guess. We'll find another coach and keep trying to climb back up to where we belong. I just hope he doesn't screw his players over like Briles did. That would be unforgivable in my eyes.
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I think the appeal of coaching in the SEC is a powerful one. People outside of Aggieland have tried to marginalize the impact of being in the SEC but it ain't stopping at being a more coveted coaching position. Recruiting is going to become almost easy for the Aggies. I think your perception of the Ags is a backwards looking one, but I see this program taking off now that they are in the SEC. If I were the Ags I'd be very careful with this next Coach. The program is ready to take off big time with the right guy.
 
Stemp said:
As much as I love UH, having gone there for several semesters, I think the Coog fans need stop drinking the koolaid if they believe UH is better coaching job than A&M.

Not only will A&M more than double his salary, which UH couldn't even try to do, he'll be coaching the only Texas school in the best football conference in the country.
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Why should Sumlin trust them to pay that doubled salary? A&M is in the process of weaseling out of paying Sherman for his contract extension. Let's just say if I'm Sumlin I'm demanding a hefty front loaded contract.

And I'm looking for Bowtie's signature before I sign.
 
texanhead08 said:
That's how it always works and why would you want someone who left you coaching your team.
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When was the last time a coach quit on his team before the Sugar Bowl to go to another program starting with the Meineke Car Car Bowl. That would be a BAD move for A&M to make Sumlin make and it would dumb for Sumlin to do. Sumlin would have much more going for him in the recruiting realm staying at UH till the end of the season and leading the Cougars to the Sugar Bowl vs. quitting on them and going to a brand new team with no players he knows, a system that's not his, coaches he doesn't know and coaching them in a meaningless bowl game 3 weeks later.
 
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Vinny said:
I think the appeal of coaching in the SEC is a powerful one. People outside of Aggieland have tried to marginalize the impact of being in the SEC but it ain't stopping at being a more coveted coaching position. Recruiting is going to become almost easy for the Aggies. I think your perception of the Ags is a backwards looking one, but I see this program taking off now that they are in the SEC. If I were the Ags I'd be very careful with this next Coach. The program is ready to take off big time with the right guy.
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I'm just pissed because UH has a good thing going (another good thing going) and here comes another program in to suddenly snatch that guy away again. I refuse to believe that Houston's program can't also "take off" and hoped that Sumlin would be the guy who wanted to build something long term. All we get these days is a guy who comes in, has the start of some success, and then turns it into a bigger payday somewhere else. Nobody wants to be that long-term coach who comes to define the program anymore.

I don't agree that my view of A&M is a backwards looking one. I do not see a lot of success in their future over there. They've just traded being UT's ***** for taking turns being LSU & Alabama's *****.
 
When he got hired, I said that I didn't think he had the personality to recruit with Stoops and Brown. Based on what I hear from the recruiting authorities, it sounds like that's what he was best at.
 
I do not know if Sumlin is the right man for the job. He has done great things with UH and possibly with the right defensive coordinator and good coaches around him he could surprise me. He would have nearly unlimited resources at ATM, but he needs to bring top talent to walk into the SEC. Other than a good young offensive line I do not know what ATM has cooking as far as talent returning.
 
Regarding Sumlin, the rumored ASU offer is $4 million.

If A&M is going after the guy, then I don't think the Coogs can afford to get involved in that kind of a bidding war. Hell, I'm pretty sure that they've been priced out of the market right now.

I'm impressed that they've been able to keep Sumlin around this long. The positive here is that Mack Rhodes seems like he's a competent AD. As long as they keep that guy around, then I expect them to keep growing the program into something other than a stepping stone.

I just hope that they hire another guy with a man's name this time. When they hired a guy with a woman's name, it set the program back decades.
 
Why does and why would John Gruden name come up?

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Ole Miss Texan said:
When was the last time a coach quit on his team before the Sugar Bowl to go to another program starting with the Meineke Car Car Bowl. That would be a BAD move for A&M to make Sumlin make and it would dumb for Sumlin to do. Sumlin would have much more going for him in the recruiting realm staying at UH till the end of the season and leading the Cougars to the Sugar Bowl vs. quitting on them and going to a brand new team with no players he knows, a system that's not his, coaches he doesn't know and coaching them in a meaningless bowl game 3 weeks later.
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The last time something like that happened was a few years ago when Notre Dame hired Cincy's coach Brian Kelley, right before Cincy was going to play Florida in a BCS bowl. Cincy got blown out by Tim Tebow in that one, but I recall watching that game and it really did feel like the team gave up. I certainly don't want to see that happen to the Coogs this year, and I hope Sumlin has the decency to wait until after the bowl game to make a decision.

By the way, even if Sumlin takes a job elsewhere he won't be the new coach until after bowl season, so either way he will still be coaching the Coogs for the Sugar Bowl.
 
Dutchrudder said:
The last time something like that happened was a few years ago when Notre Dame hired Cincy's coach Brian Kelley, right before Cincy was going to play Florida in a BCS bowl. Cincy got blown out by Tim Tebow in that one, but I recall watching that game and it really did feel like the team gave up. I certainly don't want to see that happen to the Coogs this year, and I hope Sumlin has the decency to wait until after the bowl game to make a decision.

By the way, even if Sumlin takes a job elsewhere he won't be the new coach until after bowl season, so either way he will still be coaching the Coogs for the Sugar Bowl.
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Briles didn't wait to leave and I think that's what most UH fans have in mind right now. To this day I think Briles is a stinking piece of fecal matter. He's a member of the "I wouldn't urinate in your mouth if your throat was on fire" club in my eyes. Hate the man and hate Baylor until the end of time. Respect RGIII's amazing talent but Baylor is the ultimate evil in my eyes.

Sumlin goes to A&M and I won't feel that way. He and that school might be dead to me but I won't spend any time being angry over it. To be honest I don't pay attention to A&M much anyway. My interest in any college program outside of UH is kind of a very general "and I also want all the Texas teams ot win" sort of thing.
 
Dutchrudder said:
The last time something like that happened was a few years ago when Notre Dame hired Cincy's coach Brian Kelley, right before Cincy was going to play Florida in a BCS bowl. Cincy got blown out by Tim Tebow in that one, but I recall watching that game and it really did feel like the team gave up. I certainly don't want to see that happen to the Coogs this year, and I hope Sumlin has the decency to wait until after the bowl game to make a decision.

By the way, even if Sumlin takes a job elsewhere he won't be the new coach until after bowl season, so either way he will still be coaching the Coogs for the Sugar Bowl.
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Thanks Dutch, that's probably a perfect example! I just don't understand the coach's thought process. In Kelley's situation, he left to go to a 6-6 Notre Dame team that I don't think even had a bowl game.

In the case of Sumlin (still hypothetical)... I think it'd be best for both A&M AND Sumlin to wait until after the bowl games. For Sumlin, he gets to coach his team in the Sugar Bowl (likely), the team he put together and the best team in the history of the school. For A&M, they would be bringing in a coach that took his team to a BCS game and coached in it, who has that experience. That only helps with recruiting.

Otherwise, Sumlin goes to A&M before the bowl game and meets the players and coaches. Has a few weeks to get to know them and their strengths/weaknesses and then has to gameplan against another team for A&M's mediocre bowl game. Whether A&M wins or loses their bowl game probably has little effect on a recruits decision at this point. But Sumlin being able to recruit as taking his team to a BCS game outweighs him leaving early. Plus he wouldn't even start recruiting until AFTER bowl season anyways.
 
Aggs had better go find some serious HC who has the ability to build a powerhouse type of team, or they're going to suffer badly for a long time in the SEC. They had better do it right now as they introduce themselves into the new conference. A poor start in their first two seasons could end up being another decade of failures if they don't find the right guy this time around.
 
I'm sure it's Sumlin (Gruden? Really? Might as well have said it was between Kevin Sumlin and Bear Bryant), and I'm surprised UH was able to keep him for awhile. Hopefully the next coach they bring in will be as good as Briles and Sumlin was for the program, and we can hopefully keep him longer.

But this kind of stuff is to be expected until UH can worm it's way into a BCS conference. After that comes winning that conference year after year, or always competing until a bigger conference wants you. To me the whole "not coaching in the bowl" is kind of a dick move, but it's happened before. I will always recall this season fondly even if Sumlin gives us a bad nut tap on his way out.

Hopefully we can renovate Robertson stadium and Hoffeinz and hopefully the Big East doesn't just implode right after inviting the Coogs. That's all I can truly hope for anyway.
 
Vinny said:
I think the appeal of coaching in the SEC is a powerful one. People outside of Aggieland have tried to marginalize the impact of being in the SEC but it ain't stopping at being a more coveted coaching position. Recruiting is going to become almost easy for the Aggies. I think your perception of the Ags is a backwards looking one, but I see this program taking off now that they are in the SEC. If I were the Ags I'd be very careful with this next Coach. The program is ready to take off big time with the right guy.
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I get the appeal to coaching in the SEC, but I am not sure players necessarily will want to follow A&M into the SEC unless the Aggies have a couple of really good seasons. Playing in the SEC is tough and players like to be on winning programs. While in the Big XII, the Aggies struggled to get usually finish ahead of UT, OU, and for a long time Tech. If the Aggies struggled to finish fourth in the Big XII South, how will they fare in a much tougher SEC West where the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas reside.

The other thing to consider is that A&M is not the premier school in Texas. Whereas in Lousiana or Alabama, LSU and Alabama are the schools the local kids want to flock to, in this case, Texas is the school Texas schools go to. In order to draw interest and appeal, A&M needed a known National coach, like an Urban Meyer to draw the recruits in. Outside of Texas, how many people know who Kevin Sumlin is? Not too many. Bama made a spalsh by getting Saban, A&M needed one too and I don't think Sumlin is it.

I can see A&M becoming another Mississippi State type of SEC team, a solid team most years but typically overwhelmed by the LSU, Alabama, and Floridas of the SEC.
 
b0ng said:
I'm sure it's Sumlin (Gruden? Really? Might as well have said it was between Kevin Sumlin and Bear Bryant), and I'm surprised UH was able to keep him for awhile. Hopefully the next coach they bring in will be as good as Briles and Sumlin was for the program, and we can hopefully keep him longer.

But this kind of stuff is to be expected until UH can worm it's way into a BCS conference. After that comes winning that conference year after year, or always competing until a bigger conference wants you. To me the whole "not coaching in the bowl" is kind of a dick move, but it's happened before. I will always recall this season fondly even if Sumlin gives us a bad nut tap on his way out.

Hopefully we can renovate Robertson stadium and Hoffeinz and hopefully the Big East doesn't just implode right after inviting the Coogs. That's all I can truly hope for anyway.
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You have to look at it from the other side. With Sumlin as the coach, he needs to make recruiting trips, make phone calls, try to pull some of his recruits from UH to A&M and reassure the A&M recruits that Sherman pulled in. All of that takes time. you can't really do all of that and coach UH. It isn't fair to the UH players when they know their coach is thinking about another job. Better to cut the losses now.
 
Hookem Horns said:
Why would Sumlin take a demotion from U of H to A & M? :kitten:
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Now, now....had Brown lost the Ags game, he might be looking for work now as well.

Dutchrudder said:
Oh sweet, hire Sumlin so that every school in the state can hate us! Great plan Byrne!

...

Sumlin is a big fish in a small pond making success with his predecessor's recruits. I don't like him one bit for any BCS school, let alone one in the SEC. This would be a terrible move for both A&M and Sumlin. I would much rather see them get the DC from Bama or another great SEC coordinator. We need a strong defensive minded coach if we want to compete in the SEC by 2015...
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You've got a point there. Than again, the ags need to play Offense in the 2nd half as well. Sherman is horrible at making 2nd half adjustments. Jackie Sherrill was great at it.
 
Doppelganger said:
I get the appeal to coaching in the SEC, but I am not sure players necessarily will want to follow A&M into the SEC unless the Aggies have a couple of really good seasons. Playing in the SEC is tough and players like to be on winning programs. While in the Big XII, the Aggies struggled to get usually finish ahead of UT, OU, and for a long time Tech. If the Aggies struggled to finish fourth in the Big XII South, how will they fare in a much tougher SEC West where the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas reside.

The other thing to consider is that A&M is not the premier school in Texas. Whereas in Lousiana or Alabama, LSU and Alabama are the schools the local kids want to flock to, in this case, Texas is the school Texas schools go to. In order to draw interest and appeal, A&M needed a known National coach, like an Urban Meyer to draw the recruits in. Outside of Texas, how many people know who Kevin Sumlin is? Not too many. Bama made a spalsh by getting Saban, A&M needed one too and I don't think Sumlin is it.

I can see A&M becoming another Mississippi State type of SEC team, a solid team most years but typically overwhelmed by the LSU, Alabama, and Floridas of the SEC.
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everyone wants to play in the SEC. Even kids I talk to down here practicing for their Regonal playoff game at Reliant here at La Porte HS. Super Soph Hoza Scott (he's an elite prospect) is really geeked about attending Aggie U and playing OLB in a SEC defense - that's what what he wants. For instance, Ole Miss (Ole Miss has a beautiful campus in Oxford - Northern Mississippi) is a perpetual doormat but they get TONS of talent simply because they play the big dogs of the SEC every year and the kids get the National exposure they want.

A&M is no Mississippi State. If you have ever been to the campuses you know that there is no comparison. No offense to the Miss St guys but its the ghetto compared to Aggieland. They don't have near the talent base to recruit from in lower Mississippi. A&M may as well be a Houston Campus as close as they are. I think the Ags will be a big player in about 4 years, and stay that way.
 
Doppelganger said:
You have to look at it from the other side. With Sumlin as the coach, he needs to make recruiting trips, make phone calls, try to pull some of his recruits from UH to A&M and reassure the A&M recruits that Sherman pulled in. All of that takes time. you can't really do all of that and coach UH. It isn't fair to the UH players when they know their coach is thinking about another job. Better to cut the losses now.
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Right but there have been plenty of coaches who have survived even though they coached their previous team in a bowl game then moved schools after that was over. That's why I said it's a dick move.
 
Vinny said:
everyone wants to play in the SEC. Even kids I talk to down here practicing for their Regonal playoff game at Reliant here at La Porte HS. Super Soph Hoza Scott (he's an elite prospect) is really geeked about attending Aggie U and playing OLB in a SEC defense - that's what what he wants. For instance, Ole Miss (Ole Miss has a beautiful campus in Oxford - Northern Mississippi) is a perpetual doormat but they get TONS of talent simply because they play the big dogs of the SEC every year and the kids get the National exposure they want.

A&M is no Mississippi State. If you have ever been to the campuses you know that there is no comparison. No offense to the Miss St guys but its the ghetto compared to Aggieland. They don't have near the talent base to recruit from in lower Mississippi. A&M may as well be a Houston Campus as close as they are. I think the Ags will be a big player in about 4 years, and stay that way.
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I do not know Hoza Scott and cannot speak for him. He may really want to play for A&M and that is fine. But I reiterate my point: A&M is still not the LSU of Texas. Some players want to play at A&M but the majority of high school Texas players dream of playing for UT.

When I compared A&M to Mississippi State I did not mean in terms of campuses, I meant in terms of winning. Students may want to be in the SEC, but football players like to win. A&M struggled to win big time games in an inferior Big XII. How are they going to do in a much tougher SEC? Ole Miss is a doormat, but gets good players BECAUSE they are the LSU of Mississippi. Mississippi players who want to stay in Mississippi dream of playing for Ole Miss.

I really think A&M will struggle in the SEC. Sure, they may get some additional recruits becuase they are going to the SEC, but the level of competition will be far tougher than anything they have ever faced. I don't think A&M will be a doormat like Ole Miss, but I think they will probably end up around 6 or 7 wins each year. Not enough to contend, but good enough for bowl games.
 
Leach has agreed to Washington State in principal only, from what I understand. He could look into the UH job.

I would think he'd recruit some really nice talent out of the Houston-Dallas-San Antonio schools. And at UH he's already inheriting a spread offense roster of guys who can easily pick up his brand of ball.

However, Leach stands to grab stellar recruits out of the California area while at WSU. He seems to have found ways to use the California pipeline while at Tech. The coach for my WTAMU Buffs also uses that California pipeline for JUCO players, with the WTAMU system completely built upon Leach's model.

I once thought the Aggies would suffer for the move to the SEC, but I think vinny has some pretty astute arguments for why it can become a better deal for TAMU than the Big 12 is. In the Big 12, the Texas-Oklahoma high school blue chippers always want to lean toward UT or OU, with OSU being an up-and-coming destination too.

I think the talent depth might be deeper for A&M in the SEC because a Texas-Oklahoma high school blue chipper might think "Man, I can play in the SEC and still stay close enough to drive home when I want to."

If you play for A&M, in the SEC, and you find a way to beat the better SEC teams...your draft stock will benefit. It's just the way it works.
 
Doppelganger said:
I do not know Hoza Scott and cannot speak for him. He may really want to play for A&M and that is fine. But I reiterate my point: A&M is still not the LSU of Texas. Some players want to play at A&M but the majority of high school Texas players dream of playing for UT.
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Quite an assertion there. They don't dream of playing for Alabama, LSU, Notre Dame, Florida, Oklahoma, etc?

I'd give 'em a comfortable edge over A&M, but nowhere near a majority.
 
Doppelganger said:
I get the appeal to coaching in the SEC, but I am not sure players necessarily will want to follow A&M into the SEC unless the Aggies have a couple of really good seasons. Playing in the SEC is tough and players like to be on winning programs. While in the Big XII, the Aggies struggled to get usually finish ahead of UT, OU, and for a long time Tech. If the Aggies struggled to finish fourth in the Big XII South, how will they fare in a much tougher SEC West where the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas reside.

The other thing to consider is that A&M is not the premier school in Texas. Whereas in Lousiana or Alabama, LSU and Alabama are the schools the local kids want to flock to, in this case, Texas is the school Texas schools go to. In order to draw interest and appeal, A&M needed a known National coach, like an Urban Meyer to draw the recruits in. Outside of Texas, how many people know who Kevin Sumlin is? Not too many. Bama made a spalsh by getting Saban, A&M needed one too and I don't think Sumlin is it.

I can see A&M becoming another Mississippi State type of SEC team, a solid team most years but typically overwhelmed by the LSU, Alabama, and Floridas of the SEC.
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This is such crap. Kids don't flock to Auburn (the other big school in Alabama)? How did they win a national championship last year? Kids don't go to TCU because Texas gets all the good ones? What the hell are you talking about? LSU is the only big college in the state, that's why state kids tend to go there. Just like Ohio State tends to get the best Ohio recruits, when there isn't much competition in-state the BCS school tends to get the best recruits.

Texas is the best recruiting state in the country when it comes to football talent. Florida would probably be the next best comparatively. When you look at those two states, they both have a bunch of good football schools and several regularly compete for conference and national titles. UF, Fl St, Miami, are all top tier institutions for football and do well with in-state recruiting. You make it sound like A&M will never get another top prospect, but the fact is that the state of Texas can easily support multiple top tier football teams (see UT, TCU, U of H this year alone). Heck 90% of the OU team is from Texas. There's plenty to go around, they don't need to have the 'premiere school' distinction to get recruits.
 
disaacks3 said:
Quite an assertion there. They don't dream of playing for Alabama, LSU, Notre Dame, Florida, Oklahoma, etc?

I'd give 'em a comfortable edge over A&M, but nowhere near a majority.
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The majority of Texas high school football players dream of playing for Texas. Sure, some dream about Notre Dame, LSU, Florida, Oklahoma, etc, but most dream about Texas.

When there are Texas recruits involved and Texas wants the player, the vast majority of the time, the player commits to Texas. Sure Texas players go to Bama, Notre Dame, LSU, etc, but the majority who are wanted by the Horns wear Orange and White.
 
Dutchrudder said:
This is such crap. Kids don't flock to Auburn (the other big school in Alabama)? How did they win a national championship last year? Kids don't go to TCU because Texas gets all the good ones? What the hell are you talking about? LSU is the only big college in the state, that's why state kids tend to go there. Just like Ohio State tends to get the best Ohio recruits, when there isn't much competition in-state the BCS school tends to get the best recruits.

Texas is the best recruiting state in the country when it comes to football talent. Florida would probably be the next best comparatively. When you look at those two states, they both have a bunch of good football schools and several regularly compete for conference and national titles. UF, Fl St, Miami, are all top tier institutions for football and do well with in-state recruiting. You make it sound like A&M will never get another top prospect, but the fact is that the state of Texas can easily support multiple top tier football teams (see UT, TCU, U of H this year alone). Heck 90% of the OU team is from Texas. There's plenty to go around, they don't need to have the 'premiere school' distinction to get recruits.
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You are misunderstanding me. I never said A&M will never get a top recruit, but look at what has happened. Texas typically gets the players it wants. A&M got solid players as well but where did it take them? 4th in the Big XII South? How is that going to translate into SEC success? I don't think it will.

Success inspires recruits. If A&M struggles and becomes a habitual 6 or 7 win team they will get the die hard A&M kids but they will lose out on others. Kids want to win.
 
disaacks3 said:
Now, now....had Brown lost the Ags game, he might be looking for work now as well.
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If that were the case, than I would have rooted for the Aggs big time in that game, but Mack is to beloved by the masses of UT fans. I'd love to see another coach at UT, but Mack is going to get at least two more seasons of failure before they would actually fire him.
 
Doppelganger said:
The majority of Texas high school football players dream of playing for Texas. Sure, some dream about Notre Dame, LSU, Florida, Oklahoma, etc, but most dream about Texas.

When there are Texas recruits involved and Texas wants the player, the vast majority of the time, the player commits to Texas. Sure Texas players go to Bama, Notre Dame, LSU, etc, but the majority who are wanted by the Horns wear Orange and White.
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You need to go beyond your own limited view.

Kids dream of playing for winners. Texas and OU have been winners while these guys were in middle and high school. Back in the 80s and 90 kids dreamed of A&M or OU because they winners.

You think kids who are coming up through school right now and watching Texas go 6-6 or 7-5 dream of playing for that team? No.
 
Here's where I think A&M's move helps recruiting:

Texas kids who want to play in the SEC, but aren't quite highly regarded enough to be wooed by the likes of Alabama, LSU et al.

I don't know if that's a very large pool, but I can see some Texas kids who currently don't get recruited by one of the SEC perennial heavyweights but sign with another SEC school choosing the Aggies instead.
 
ziggy29 said:
Here's where I think A&M's move helps recruiting:

Texas kids who want to play in the SEC, but aren't quite highly regarded enough to be wooed by the likes of Alabama, LSU et al.

I don't know if that's a very large pool, but I can see some Texas kids who currently don't get recruited by one of the SEC perennial heavyweights but sign with another SEC school choosing the Aggies instead.
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It is a very large pool in fact. A lot of the kids these days who are super elite want to go to a place where they will get maximum exposure. The SEC is that place currently.

UT will always attract some of the best recruits in Texas, but Vinny is right, A&M has a bigtime trump card they can play over UT in the recruiting game.
 
Doppelganger said:
The majority of Texas high school football players dream of playing for Texas. Sure, some dream about Notre Dame, LSU, Florida, Oklahoma, etc, but most dream about Texas.

When there are Texas recruits involved and Texas wants the player, the vast majority of the time, the player commits to Texas. Sure Texas players go to Bama, Notre Dame, LSU, etc, but the majority who are wanted by the Horns wear Orange and White.
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We don't disagree often, but on this one I gotta call BS :) All you have to do is look at history... you're telling me when Texas had Fred Akers and John Mackovic, Texas HS players dreamed of playing for Texas? These things go in cycles... just like the wind, it will change direction, always has, always will :)
 
FirstTexansFan said:
We don't disagree often, but on this one I gotta call BS :) All you have to do is look at history... you're telling me when Texas had Fred Akers and John Mackovic, Texas HS players dreamed of playing for Texas? These things go in cycles... just like the wind, it will change direction, always has, always will :)
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Thing is, with Texas it shouldn't be a cycle. They have the biggest recruiting footprint in one of the best states for young football players, some of the best facilities on the planet and a gigantic money deal for their own (private, heh) television network. With all of the resources at UT's disposals they should always be competing for the BigXII title every year.

There are many fans of other successful college teams that would be absolutely clamoring for Brown to be fired by now, yet you don't really hear much of that from the UT crowd. It's kinda weird.
 
FirstTexansFan said:
We don't disagree often, but on this one I gotta call BS :) All you have to do is look at history... you're telling me when Texas had Fred Akers and John Mackovic, Texas HS players dreamed of playing for Texas? These things go in cycles... just like the wind, it will change direction, always has, always will :)
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Partially true, but I think the college football landscape (and economics) are more and more lopsided and "the money" is huge enough today to create a permanent elite and a permanent underclass, much as in MLB. As this phenomenon progresses, the advantages that the biggest, wealthiest behemoths have in terms of facilities, recruiting and TV revenues grow even through inertia.

The influence of changing college football economics wasn't really in full swing in the Akers/Mackovic era, IMO.

And as for all this conference jumping, don't get me started on the hypocrisy of a sport and a governing body that markets "tradition" while it actively seeks to kill tradition in pursuit of the almighty dollar (or TV market).
 
b0ng said:
There are many fans of other successful college teams that would be absolutely clamoring for Brown to be fired by now, yet you don't really hear much of that from the UT crowd. It's kinda weird.
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I'm all for firing Brown... bring back Fred Akers LOL

ziggy29 said:
while it actively seeks to kill tradition in pursuit of the almighty dollar (or TV market).
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I couldn't agree more with this line :)
 
I wouldn't be so sure about Sumlin going to A&M. I do think he will leave UH, but I think it will be for Arizona St. Unfortunately for UH, they are just a stepping stone right now as far as the coaching community is concerned. Hopefully the move to the Big East will change that.

I am hearing that A&M is down to four candidates, Sumlin being one. The others are:

Charlie Strong - Head Coach, Louisville
Larry Fedora - Head Coach, Soutern Miss
Kirby Smart - Defensive Coordinator, Alabama

I think that Sumlin is a great coach, but I would look for A&M to hire a defensive-minded coach for a change. Strong would be a great choice, in my opinion.
 
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