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Raiders Kelly: Schaub choked
- Thread starter Hookem Horns
- Start date
The Alchemist
Practice Squad
He speaks the truth
Remember this from the Dolphins in 2008?
(can't find the real version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSpXsh0ru0
(can't find the real version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSpXsh0ru0
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
People seem to have conveniently forgotten that. It's funny to me as well, because so many guys that are raking Schaub over the coals as a bum now are the same ones that argued and argued with me about the idea that he was about to turn into some elite QB and all of this other stuff. Now, I'm having to defend him to some of the same people all because Schaub threw a pick that lost a game. Schaub is getting way to much heat right now.
I don't think he could have made it to the goal line. But, dude should have had the sense to know the clock was winding down, and with nobody clearly open, throw the ball away and try again one more time.
That was a rookie mistake by a veteran player, and I'd say that bad decision making during a clutch situation was indicative of the choke mentality.
That was a rookie mistake by a veteran player, and I'd say that bad decision making during a clutch situation was indicative of the choke mentality.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
I don't think Schaub could have made it, there was a defender closing rapidly. It's hard to say because he hesistated. He should have thrown it away as others have said.
Real classy by Kelly though...
Real classy by Kelly though...
I think Schaub would`ve been hit somewhere around the 1 yard line. A tough QB like Big Ben would`ve been in - an illusive QB would`ve been in. But Schaub? He might`ve made it - but it would`ve hurt. Best choice would`ve been to throw it away or try to run it in. Don`t throw it in good coverage.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Schaub did choke, but it had NOTHING to do with not deciding to run the ball in. (Because frankly he would've been creamed before he ever got across the endzone..that decision was actually a good decision) It had to do with the decision to not check out of that play and conserve at least a second on the clock to run another play and live another down. Instead of firing the ball out of the back of the endzone when everybody was covered, he ran around and ran all the freaking time off the clock and then threw a horrible pass to a defender when everybody was covered.
He did kind of choke, but it was for completely different reasons than what Kelly mentioned.
It's situational football and these are things that coaches like Belichick continually teach and harp on. You have seven seconds and before you ever even snap the ball, your mindset and focus should be on if everybody is remotely covered kill the play in enough time where you can still run another one. You have to get two plays out of those last 7 seconds. Whether it's a choke or not is freely up for debate, however at the very least Schaub's head was clearly not in the game.
He did kind of choke, but it was for completely different reasons than what Kelly mentioned.
It's situational football and these are things that coaches like Belichick continually teach and harp on. You have seven seconds and before you ever even snap the ball, your mindset and focus should be on if everybody is remotely covered kill the play in enough time where you can still run another one. You have to get two plays out of those last 7 seconds. Whether it's a choke or not is freely up for debate, however at the very least Schaub's head was clearly not in the game.
Blake
MMQB
Dont kid yourself. Everyone would have been blasting him for not throwing it. "YOU ARE A QB! NOT A RB!, THROW THE BALL TO A PLAYMAKER!"
Catch 22.
brad77
Noob
He does deserve the heat for not throwing that ball away and taking one last shot, however lets not forget the missed field goal. Don't forget the Vickers drop that was an easy 6. Schaub can't do it alone, and should not take all the blame for the loss. It was a bad choice..Hell Yes it was, but he should not be taking all the heat. He threw for over 400 yds yesterday. I think we took some key hits were we should have had points on the board and came up NIL.IMO
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Oh trust me, I'm not putting it all on him...there's plenty of people to blame for that performance yesterday.
It was a collective
However this thread is only talking about one play and that's my opinion on that one single play.
It's not difficult to argue that Jacoby is not a playmaker though. If AJ was in Jacoby's place it'd be a completely different story.
The main thing is that Schaub should have thrown away and taken another chance, but it is what it is.
eriadoc
Texan-American
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
Real time as it happened, I didn't see the defender closing that fast and nearly had a stroke I was so pissed he didn't run. Upon replay I saw that and realized it was not to be.
Still, part of me wants to know what would have happened had he tried it and maybe dive for it....then this came to mind and I quickly abandoned that too....
darnbni99a
Waterboy
yes he shouldve thrown it away but I blame Vickers for dropping that wide open pass and Rackers for missing that 42yd FG more than I blame Schaub
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
If you'd have watched the first half of the game, you know it shouldn't
have come down to Vickers. The Texans' offense blew a ton of
scoring chances in the first half. The second half should've been
a cake walk. Instead, the Texans stubbing their toe, and Janukowski
bustin 55+ yarders like extra points put the Texans in a dogfight they
just couldn't win.
silvrhand
All Pro
He didn't have to make a decision it was a QB draw all the way..
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Real time as it happened, I didn't see the defender closing that fast and nearly had a stroke I was so pissed he didn't run. Upon replay I saw that and realized it was not to be.
Still, part of me wants to know what would have happened had he tried it and maybe dive for it....then this came to mind and I quickly abandoned that too....
Who doesn't want to know what "The Schaubcopter" looks like?
I'd have been fine with it. It would have somehow seemed "fitting" for it to happen. In keeping with the traditions of the Houston Texans.
Wolf
100% Texan
forget him.. his parts are still sore after the Texans ran all over him last year. so bad that he marked that game off and has been waiting to play his "super bowl" this year
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...t-Texans/e01da588-9b69-4641-b904-3a9feca36e4e
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...t-Texans/e01da588-9b69-4641-b904-3a9feca36e4e
Cerberus
Hall of Fame
So how fast do you think Schaub is, because when Tyvon Branch was on the goal line charging at Schaub, Matt was on the 7 yard line. Do you really think Schaub could cover 6 yards in the time it would take Branch to cover 1 yard? Just wondering, because I think they would have met around the 4 yard line.
Cerberus
Hall of Fame
With 7 seconds left, Kubiak should have called for a quick corner pass or something where it is either complete or incomplete with time remaining. Once Schaub started his roll-out he basically committed the Texans to scoring on that play and not getting another play.
Wolf
100% Texan
exactly.
Cerberus
Hall of Fame
If you are going to play the "if only" game, don't forget about the 2 long passes where Campbell had guys behind the Texans D but didn't hook up with them, or the 41-yard McFadden run called back on a phantom hold, or . . . we can all play that game.
False Start
On # 69
I dont think he would have made it either, but at least when he saw the play had went to **** throw it away, and have time to get another play off. However, if he would have tried to run it in he would still be getting killed by the media, and fans including myself. It was TD or bust on that play. 
I threw my hat after that play...I was pissed, lol.
As far as the comments by Kelly I heard that yesterday on Matt Thomas' blog, it was kind of bush league IMO.
I threw my hat after that play...I was pissed, lol.
As far as the comments by Kelly I heard that yesterday on Matt Thomas' blog, it was kind of bush league IMO.
I still can't get over the Vickers drop. Having said that, a 6'5" 241# QB should be doing the creaming against 6' 205# DB. Don't hesitate, cover the ball, lower a shoulder, be the hammer and fall forward for 2 yds. If Schaub wanted that TD more than Branch wanted to stop him, it's a TD.
Do you think Matt is getting heat right now for just that one play?
Last edited:
Do you think Vickers choked?
Do you think Rackers choked?
How's Matt any different? Let's call a spade a spade. Let's hope Schaub understands he screwed up right there & could have done a better job. Put a little arc on that ball, toss it up to the corner & let Jacoby go get it. Don't throw it straight to the guy standing in front of him.
Yeah I remember that...
I also remember a 4th down catch by Andre where he caught a poorly thrown ball by wrapping his arms completely around the DB to keep that drive alive.
Schaub didn't improvise on that play...It was a designed QB run...
I agree with Kelly. If Schaub runs straight to the endzone he easily makes it in. It wasn't like he had to run 10 or 15 yards.
Schaub did a bunch of things wrong on that play though so even if you don't think he could have made it, take your pick of the other 3 or 4 things he couldve done there..
Wolf
100% Texan
Foster probably the only Texan that would have the agility/vision to make the DB miss, Schaub not so much
thanks to Andy
picture looks like DB was past the goal line already..schaub looks to be at about the 5
to me, I don't understand how anyone can say schaub would make it .. DB is running toward him..Schaub is running east and west along the goal line and with his "agility" no way he makes the DB miss
thanks to Andy
picture looks like DB was past the goal line already..schaub looks to be at about the 5
to me, I don't understand how anyone can say schaub would make it .. DB is running toward him..Schaub is running east and west along the goal line and with his "agility" no way he makes the DB miss
This is a good post. There were plenty of chokes yesterday, but Schaub was choking from the 2nd drive on. We'll never know whether JJ was running bad routes or Kubiaks playy calling was a huge factor, but we all know that Schaub didn't get it done throughout the game. IMO, the defense was lights effing out until the O couldn't sustain a drive. Forget the last play of the game and look at all the 3 & outs we had in the 2nd half. That went a long ways towards wearing our D out and allowing the big plays the Raiders had.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I love it how the majority of this board have acted like Schaub was this great QB or really good one for years and after one game where we are 3-2 everyone gets all fickle and wants him out of here completely forgetting how highly regarded Schaub has been by so many of you for so long now just two freaking weeks ago.
And I haven't heard ANYONE in here provide a solution as to what the Texans could do to find a better QB than Matt Schaub right now. Not one person has stated any solid plan to replace Matt Schaub with someone better other than someone mentioning that we draft some mid round guy and have him sit which sounds like one of the most flawed plans you could think of since hardly any mid round draft picks ever become long term potential starters. You look at all of the top QB's in the league right now, and they were all early 1st round draft picks other than Tom Brady whom everyone knows is a rare case.
Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford were all early picks. Rodgers went a little later in the first round because not a lot of teams needed QB's at the time and right before the draft Smith jumped ahead of him, but he was still a first rounder. Brees wasn't a top 5 pick, but people also forget that he was almost benched completely and never to be heard from again. Most of the QB's drafted in later rounds don't stick around as long term starters. Freeman is doing his thing, and he is not a bad example, but you guys forget how HIT AND MISS these guys are and how long it takes them to develop in many cases. I'm not willing to throw some top 10 QB in Schaub off the cliff all because this team continues to ask him to be a clutch QB almost every week and to be a hero. He is in the upper half of the league I hope that I don't hear any of these guys repping him anymore and flip flopping back into his corner if he ends up having a nice string of games again. Stop throwing guys under the bus one week and then hopping back on their jocks two weeks later depending on what happens on one play. It's petty. So unless you guys want the Texans to tank the rest of the entire season in order to be in position to try and get Andrew Luck or the 2nd guy behind him in the draft, we're not going to be in any great position to land some hot new QB that looks like the future of the NFL and getting rid of a top ten guy in Schaub would be just crazy unless there is a better option.
And I haven't heard ANYONE in here provide a solution as to what the Texans could do to find a better QB than Matt Schaub right now. Not one person has stated any solid plan to replace Matt Schaub with someone better other than someone mentioning that we draft some mid round guy and have him sit which sounds like one of the most flawed plans you could think of since hardly any mid round draft picks ever become long term potential starters. You look at all of the top QB's in the league right now, and they were all early 1st round draft picks other than Tom Brady whom everyone knows is a rare case.
Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford were all early picks. Rodgers went a little later in the first round because not a lot of teams needed QB's at the time and right before the draft Smith jumped ahead of him, but he was still a first rounder. Brees wasn't a top 5 pick, but people also forget that he was almost benched completely and never to be heard from again. Most of the QB's drafted in later rounds don't stick around as long term starters. Freeman is doing his thing, and he is not a bad example, but you guys forget how HIT AND MISS these guys are and how long it takes them to develop in many cases. I'm not willing to throw some top 10 QB in Schaub off the cliff all because this team continues to ask him to be a clutch QB almost every week and to be a hero. He is in the upper half of the league I hope that I don't hear any of these guys repping him anymore and flip flopping back into his corner if he ends up having a nice string of games again. Stop throwing guys under the bus one week and then hopping back on their jocks two weeks later depending on what happens on one play. It's petty. So unless you guys want the Texans to tank the rest of the entire season in order to be in position to try and get Andrew Luck or the 2nd guy behind him in the draft, we're not going to be in any great position to land some hot new QB that looks like the future of the NFL and getting rid of a top ten guy in Schaub would be just crazy unless there is a better option.
Like he did in Philly last year...it's not unheard of.
No argument here.
Grams
Veteran
Well he wasn't perfect.
There are lots of posters here that expect Texan players to be perfect on every play.
I have seen the best of players make mistakes and they don't get crucified like our Texans do. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, etc - all have thrown interceptions that cost their team the game. Even the best DB gets beaten or the best WR drops the pass.
But if you are a Texan player you are not supposed to get beaten or drop a pass or throw an interception. Our guys are either perfect or they are bums and need to be cut or traded.
Schaub would have made it in if he would have pulled the ball down, been decisive and ran straight for the goal line.
The fact that he drifted (not ran) "east and west" the the problem.
When that lane opened up, Shammy should have tucked the ball and hauled as straight ahead for the goal line. Instead, he drifted out towards the DB....
Look at the first picture. If Shammy runs straight towards Kevin Walter's right knee I think he gets into the EZ fairly easily. The DB that forced Schaub to throw is not even in the picture at that point.
You don't see the guy until the second and third picture where Schaub is clearly 'running' towards him.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yeah, it's like some people seem to think that ELITE QB's that are better than Schaub just grow on trees and could easily be found in rounds 2 and 3 of the draft. Lol! Or that the Saints are going to talk business with us on what they want for Drew Brees. Not gonna happen. Even if you find a potential young great QB in the draft you're looking at a 3 year plan before he can become that top tier type of QB. I understand that Schaub has his short comings, but the guy is pretty good. He is a poor man's Kurt Warner and always has been. That's not a bad deal. With a guy like that you've got to make the rest of your team pretty bad ass and not expect your QB to carry the team but on only a few occasions a year. Dallas has the same problem with Tony Romo and they expect him to be Tom Brady as well.
Cerberus
Hall of Fame
Cool, thanks for the link.
And there I am:
Second row far left behind the two guys wearing red colored shirts. You can't tell, but I'm wearing a throwback Willie Brown jersey. My son is next to me, the one with the black Raider jersey and ball cap, behind the woman wearing the #90 jersey.
Like I was saying, the play happened right in front of me and there was no way Schaub was running it in.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
No way Schaub could have run that in. No. Freaking. Way. Foster, yeah, not Schaub.
Only thing I see Schaub could have done was throw to Dreeson or Daniels, both of which were just short of the goal line with a defender practically strapped to their backsides. Not likely either one of them would have even caught it and, if they did, they'd have to really fight to get the ball over the goal-line. One of them was also a pass that he would have had to throw right when he was closest to being sacked, right when he decided to break for it out of the pocket, and the pass very likely would have been batted down at the line. Nobody was open, unless it was to the far, far right, which I can't see on the replay, and Schaub was pressured hard from the right/center.
I'll fault him for not doing one thing: he could have thrown the ball away with like 2 or 3 seconds left and had another play. I think that was really his only viable option. Problem is he likely had no idea whether the clock had run out or not and didn't want to risk throwing the ball away with no time left on the clock. It's very forgivable.
Only thing I see Schaub could have done was throw to Dreeson or Daniels, both of which were just short of the goal line with a defender practically strapped to their backsides. Not likely either one of them would have even caught it and, if they did, they'd have to really fight to get the ball over the goal-line. One of them was also a pass that he would have had to throw right when he was closest to being sacked, right when he decided to break for it out of the pocket, and the pass very likely would have been batted down at the line. Nobody was open, unless it was to the far, far right, which I can't see on the replay, and Schaub was pressured hard from the right/center.
I'll fault him for not doing one thing: he could have thrown the ball away with like 2 or 3 seconds left and had another play. I think that was really his only viable option. Problem is he likely had no idea whether the clock had run out or not and didn't want to risk throwing the ball away with no time left on the clock. It's very forgivable.
brad77
Noob
I couldn't agree more. Everyone has places they can improve, and if you look at Schaub's interceptions, most have come from tipped passes. He really needs to work on getting the ball past the line. I believe the O line needs find a way to create more space for him when he is in the pocket... either way I believe he is the guy for our team, there is no one else out there... Remember you don't find to many guys in the draft that can play at this level. It is a huge gamble to put all your eggs in the "draft" basket just yet.
Look and the Indy situation,(0-5) a QB has that much affect on a team and we need a good leader like schaub right now....He has the faith of the players, now the fans need to get behind him as well.
I think Chris had another impressive game, including (if not especially) in pass protection. Wade Smith & Brisiel were definitely having issues.
I didn't zero in on Chris specifically, but I watched just about all the plays where interior protection failed (& there were a lot more than I originally thought) & I doubt I said Meyers more than twice.
Not saying he was perfect, but I don't think he was an issue, not a big issue anyway.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Not me. I've been asking him to be a true WCO QB and tuck it and run when he has to in order to keep a drive alive or win a game. Anyone remember last week vs. The Steelers on that long drive where Schaub decided to tuck it and pick up the first down? Kept the drive alive and we ended up getting 6 points and taking a huge amount of time off the clock.