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Our offense is way overated.

gafftop

All Pro
At the beginning of the game when it still mattered and the other team was interested the Texans were not good in many of the games. My feeling is that the other team got so far ahead that they either lost their intensity or changed their defense. Either that or the Texans were easy to figure out at the beginning during the scripted portion of the game. Whether the team was outmanned at the beginning or out coached it really doesn't matter they were not that good. I think they do need another quality receiver. I don't want to hear that jacoby or dorin are going to step up. You know the more I post the more depressed I get about the coming season. This year in the last game of the season that means absolutely NOTHING lose the damn game and get a better draft choice. Get your head out of your *** and think about the future. Give the backup QB some experience or maybe showcase one of the backups to entice a trade. And the beat goes on.
 

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
At the beginning of the game when it still mattered and the other team was interested the Texans were not good in many of the games. My feeling is that the other team got so far ahead that they either lost their intensity or changed their defense. Either that or the Texans were easy to figure out at the beginning during the scripted portion of the game. Whether the team was outmanned at the beginning or out coached it really doesn't matter they were not that good. I think they do need another quality receiver. I don't want to hear that jacoby or dorin are going to step up. You know the more I post the more depressed I get about the coming season. This year in the last game of the season that means absolutely NOTHING lose the damn game and get a better draft choice. Get your head out of your *** and think about the future. Give the backup QB some experience or maybe showcase one of the backups to entice a trade. And the beat goes on.
Well, your post is one reason why I wouldn't be too shocked if Julio Jones fell to us and we picked him. For pretty much the reasons you suggested. Then when you figure that Andre Johnson has been hurt quite a bit over the last 3 seasons (which you gotta attribute some of the offensive sluggishness to not having him in the lineup) and then our depth is not where it needs to be on the WR corp. Even Kubes is quoted as saying that you are mistaken if you think they feel the offense is where it needs to be.

I do disagree that we are overrated. I believe much of it had to do with us getting our heads out of our butt be it the coaches or the players. Schaub has proven that he can move the ball and when the team is behind he can play well, and he he's done it with very little of a wr corp. If not for OD and Foster our passing game might be worse. What I noticed was a failure to adjust at halftime (San Diego, even Tenn at home) we came out tough and would look like crap in the second half. However, a team with a decent defense makes for a win (like the Tenn game at home showed) in those situations.
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
The offense is efficient and effective, but is not tempo dictating often enough. The best offenses in the league don't really have much better stats, but do what they want more than the Texans who tend take what's given. Honestly, not sure, if adding bodies can change the "attitude" of the offense.
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
i agree u know the funny thig is in 2009 we started fast but ended slow

-Going up 20+ on the Miami COlts San fran and others only two meltdown in the 3rd and 4th

thus the term jeckle and hyde came upon are team in the indivual games and the records 7-9 8-8 8-8 9-7

but in 2010 in was in reverse we started off slow only to end Fast

but iDKnow if u compare our Offensive to our peers in the AFC south i;d say we are right up there with the colts maybe even better at some thing even

now that we got Foster we are over the top we can Pass and RUN
 

Big Lou

Hall of Fame
Yeh they suck.

Matt Schaub: Wet noodle arm, injury prone, ill timed interceptions, only throws for over 4k per year.

Arian Foster: No better than an UFA, any RB with a 4+ YPC can't be any good.

Andre Johnson: Only bright spot, but he's just ah-ite. Too bad the Lions took Charles Rogers, we should have traded up.

Kevin Walters: Probably couldn't make any other teams roster.

Owen Daniels/Joel Dreessen: No wonder we keep drafting TE's every year.

Vonta Leach: couldn't open up a can of Pringles.


Screw drafting D, we desperately need to upgrade this pathetic Offense!!!! The Defense was just underrated last year, the statistics were skewed because of playing in the AFC South.

Sorry to be such a D--k, but even if our O is overrated, we could field the entire AFC Pro Bowl Offense, and we would still be 8 and 8 with the defensive scheme from last year. Lets draft 7 or 8 defenders this year and then lets talk WR in 2012.

Again sorry to be so mean, but I hate reading we should have lost a game for the draft. Besides drafting in the top 5 costs too much.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
The defense usually gave up 2+TDs in the first half last year. The offense usually scored 1 or fewer TDs in the first half last year.

Those are both problems. Stats don't overcome either of those facts.
 

Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Just out of idle curiosity, is there any chance that the offense takes a while to get going now because we run the ball? I mean there is something to be said for a team that runs the ball the way we did consistently. In the past we've been on the other end of a lot of games where we seemed to wear down on defense... and that seems like what happened to those other teams. If we had half a decent defense... heck if we finished in the top 22 or so we'd have made the playoffs. I don't know that you can say our offense is overrated so much as our defense is even more overrated than we ever knew. We literally lost a game in which we scored the game winning touch down. Oh, no... wait... there are more than 15 seconds left... yeah... kinda like that.

Mike
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
Just out of idle curiosity, is there any chance that the offense takes a while to get going now because we run the ball? I mean there is something to be said for a team that runs the ball the way we did consistently. In the past we've been on the other end of a lot of games where we seemed to wear down on defense... and that seems like what happened to those other teams. If we had half a decent defense... heck if we finished in the top 22 or so we'd have made the playoffs. I don't know that you can say our offense is overrated so much as our defense is even more overrated than we ever knew. We literally lost a game in which we scored the game winning touch down. Oh, no... wait... there are more than 15 seconds left... yeah... kinda like that.

Mike
:thisbig: Agree.
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
i was comparing our WR to the JAGS and titans and we so out class them

Oline RB TE QB in everything

U know whos the QB of the titans right now

Ratliff & Rusty Smith

yup the got rid of Old kerry collins
 

SAMURAITEXAN

All Pro
Just out of idle curiosity, is there any chance that the offense takes a while to get going now because we run the ball? I mean there is something to be said for a team that runs the ball the way we did consistently. In the past we've been on the other end of a lot of games where we seemed to wear down on defense... and that seems like what happened to those other teams. If we had half a decent defense... heck if we finished in the top 22 or so we'd have made the playoffs. I don't know that you can say our offense is overrated so much as our defense is even more overrated than we ever knew. We literally lost a game in which we scored the game winning touch down. Oh, no... wait... there are more than 15 seconds left... yeah... kinda like that.

Mike
Yap, you said it Mike. This is why we need to draft D more so than O.

Go Texans!!!
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
I'm a little afraid to respond in here because the topic has been broached many times and this feels like slight baiting :)

I agree with OP that the offense was just as much to blame in many games last year because of their slow starts. As far as blaming I don't know if this is Kubiak game planning, being outcoached, being too simple, ouththinking himself OR the players just never coming out ready..which is on the coaches. Either way it was a big problem. As for the last part about losing that last game..that has never been the way they have worked.

My personal opinion is that once they realized the offense got into a better rhythm in the hurry up they should have started games in it. That doesn't mean throwing. That means get in and out of the huddle and still run as you would whether it be out of the shutgun or under center...just pick up the pace. Yet every game started scripted and uninspired...sans Colts first game. At a certain point in the season why not go with a sped up offense? It almost makes me mad because this is the stuff that I think is directly on Gary and how he has to be in control. I think he will never be outside the box and it will continue to hurt him.
 
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gafftop

All Pro
I'm a little afraid to respond in here because the topic has been broached many times and this feels like slight baiting :)

I agree with OP that the offense was just as much to blame in many games last year because of theirt slow starts. As far as blaming I don't know if this is Kubiak game planning, being outcoached, being too simple, ouththinking himself OR the players just never coming out ready..which is on the coaches. Either way it was a big problem. As for the last part about losing that last game..that has never been the way they have worked.

My personal opinion is that once they realized the offense got into a better rhythm in the hurry up they should have started games in it. That doesn't mean throwing. That means get in and out of the huddle and still run as you would whether it be out of the shutgun or under center...just pick up the pace. Yet every game started scripted and uninspired...sans Colts first game. At a certain point in the season why not go with a sped up offense? It almost makes me mad because this is the stuff that I think is directly on Gary and how he has to be in control. I think he will never be outside the box and it will continue to hurt him.
Frog,

What you say is the root of my/the problem. With the current head coach and FO I really see no hope in significant strides being made next year that will make us a playoff contender. It just feels to me that this will be a wasted season because I do not have any confidence in the coachingstaff/FO of this team. I know Wade is new and that gives me a very slight ray of hope but that is over shadowed by Kubiak and his buds.
C'mon Kubiak make me eat my words.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Our offense is highly ranked with regards to statistics!

"Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners."
~ Bill Belichick


:toropalm:
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
The offense isn't the problem. The problem is leadership, enthusiasm/passion, and obviously the defense.

Another problem is this infatuation and obsession with PR and image. You know what helps PR and image more than spin doctors and the 'aww shucks, our kids are doing their best'? Actually trying to compete for championships and winning football games.

Stop acting like you are anything other than a losing football team with arguably the worst coach/GM combo in the league. Nothing we can do about our moron of an owner, but we could use a new coach and GM. Stat.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yeh they suck.

Matt Schaub: Wet noodle arm, injury prone, ill timed interceptions, only throws for over 4k per year.

Arian Foster: No better than an UFA, any RB with a 4+ YPC can't be any good.

Andre Johnson: Only bright spot, but he's just ah-ite. Too bad the Lions took Charles Rogers, we should have traded up.

Kevin Walters: Probably couldn't make any other teams roster.

Owen Daniels/Joel Dreessen: No wonder we keep drafting TE's every year.

Vonta Leach: couldn't open up a can of Pringles.


Screw drafting D, we desperately need to upgrade this pathetic Offense!!!! The Defense was just underrated last year, the statistics were skewed because of playing in the AFC South.

Sorry to be such a D--k, but even if our O is overrated, we could field the entire AFC Pro Bowl Offense, and we would still be 8 and 8 with the defensive scheme from last year. Lets draft 7 or 8 defenders this year and then lets talk WR in 2012.

Again sorry to be so mean, but I hate reading we should have lost a game for the draft. Besides drafting in the top 5 costs too much.
The offense is good/not great. I hope they take BPA if that's Jones so be it. Drafting for need the last 5 yrs has resulted in the teams current state.

Top 5 costs too much? BoB would agree.

But the Talent base stinks and adding a top 6 guy in each rd could help rectify this somewhat. Think about the best draft in Texans history (2006) Where were the Texans picking? The best talent is always at the top of each rd.

Really why do fans care how much BoB spends on payroll? I dont get it. If he spends 1 million or 1 billion on payroll I dont care, I just want a winner. It's not my $$$$. If BoB isn't going to sign top tier FA's he should have to spend more on the top players in the draft. But he hasn't had to because Gary has kept winning meaning less games for the last 5 yrs.

I'm sure BoB likes this because it helps keep payroll down. But the net result is the Texans are lacking in talent and the fans are stuck with a 6-10,9-7 type team. Some fans expect more than mediocrity.

BTW, I was rooting for the Texans to win the Jags game. Even though I knew it would hurt their draft position. Because I'm just not wired to lose on purpose for any reason.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Our offense is highly ranked with regards to statistics!

"Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners."
~ Bill Belichick


:toropalm:
Our offense last year was highly regarded for points which as you know produce the score. Our defense was highly regarded for giving up even more.

I'm sure BoB likes this because it helps keep payroll down.
The Texans have been at the top of the league in payroll every year. Spending money isn't the problem, spending it wisely is. That is why people care what McNair spends money on (that and cap ramifications).
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The offense isn't the problem. The problem is leadership, enthusiasm/passion, and obviously the defense.

Another problem is this infatuation and obsession with PR and image. You know what helps PR and image more than spin doctors and the 'aww shucks, our kids are doing their best'? Actually trying to compete for championships and winning football games.

Stop acting like you are anything other than a losing football team with arguably the worst coach/GM combo in the league. Nothing we can do about our moron of an owner, but we could use a new coach and GM. Stat.
Lol, you never miss an opportunity...& i'd expect nothing less from ya 2nd.

Bottom line is winning makes everything easier to take & i can't help but wonder how many of these type of threads (criticism of a strength/or solid player) would be popping up if we were winning 10-11 games but having the same issues on offense.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
Lol, you never miss an opportunity...& i'd expect nothing less from ya 2nd.

Bottom line is winning makes everything easier to take & i can't help but wonder how many of these type of threads (criticism of a strength/or solid player) would be popping up if we were winning 10-11 games but having the same issues on offense.
LMAO. Mr. Tex. That is EXACTLY why these threads keep popping up. If your offense is a strength and the team is improved then why aren't you winning 10-11 games after 5 years under the same regime? You can say defense. Alright, who has been in charge of putting that together? You can say the offense is inconsistent and starts slow...which they have. Who does that fall on? You can say that we don't bring in the right FAs..who does that fall on? Your damn skippy that people wouldn't ***** as much at 10-11 wins because that means the team overcame the obstacles, is being coached up and still wins. But since it doesn't then the issues get parsed. You can't mask that. I have a feeling that the "offense is starting slow" threads would still be here because it is so obvious in games...I just think they would be geared towards trying to figure out how to correct it to get the team farther in the playoffs and to a championship...the goal. Unless you win it all, there is something to improve but the microscope isn't as harsh.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Our offense last year was highly regarded for points which as you know produce the score. Our defense was highly regarded for giving up even more.
Yep. Which does not contradict my point. It's a team sport.

Our offense had some great stats, but in no way was it a dominant offense.

So by all means, let's celebrate our wonderful offense! It's the only thing this loser team has to be positive about. Like Belichick said, stats are for losers, because we certainly have no scoreboard to celebrate.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Yep. Which does not contradict my point. It's a team sport.

Our offense had some great stats, but in no way was it a dominant offense.

So by all means, let's celebrate our wonderful offense! It's the only thing this loser team has to be positive about. Like Belichick said, stats are for losers, because we certainly have no scoreboard to celebrate.
Except you are losing the last half of Belichick's self-contradictory quote.

"Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners."
The final score is the ultimate stat.

If you see an offense putting up points at the top of the league then sure point out areas for improvement but it earned that rating. No the offense didn't spread the points out evenly over all four quarters to make people happy but at the end of the game if you have 24+ points and lost you might want to take a look at the D and how they suck rather than calling the O overrated. And there is something in between celebrating them being wonderful and being overrated.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
Except you are losing the last half of Belichick's self-contradictory quote.



The final score is the ultimate stat.

If you see an offense putting up points at the top of the league then sure point out areas for improvement but it earned that rating. No the offense didn't spread the points out evenly over all four quarters to make people happy but at the end of the game if you have 24+ points and lost you might want to take a look at the D and how they suck rather than calling the O overrated. And there is something in between celebrating them being wonderful and being overrated.
I have a real question for you though. And we have discussed this before. The 24+ points at the end looks good. But in any way, shape or form do you think some of it has to do with defenses stepping back after getting big leagues? Not what you'd call trash because you have to fight. But it is only natural. Usually teams feel each other out early or try and execute a gameplan put together by the coaches during the week. It seems like in many instances the other teams defense worked their game plan well and had the Texans in early holes....not 28-21 early holes where the offense was scoring but 21-7 holes. So I don't think it is a matter of spreading it out evenly as much as being consistent in what they do.

As I said earlier if the offense worked more efficiently in a panic, hurry up mode..even mixing run and pass...why not try it for 4 quarters. The defense was a huge issue but it wasn't like the offense was imposing its will early. They have a strong offense but it isn't something that comes out and just dominates. I'm not expecting that, I just am looking at the total picture of "stats." I think it is legitimate to ask why a machine takes a little idling before it actually starts moving.
 
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BigBull17

Hall of Fame
If our offense started slow and the defense wasn't a complete sieve, you wouldn't even really notice it. If they woke up down 7 and then caught fire they would have killed people. You can say anything you want about the offense, but that defense was the worst thing I have ever seen.
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
Sorry but there are plenty of inept offenses around the league and Houston is not one of them. NFL teams don't just roll over in the second half in almost every game from week 1 to week 16. That is bullshit conjecture that fans who are pissed off about this team have come up with. One score in the second half being chalked up to the opposing defense being lazy and thinking they already have a win? Okay. Letting the Texans tie games, and then go down and score and win (the few times they did it last year) or tie the game up in the 4th quarter with only a few minutes to go? You think they weren't trying when the score was tied or the Texans took a small lead? You don't think they were trying to protect their lead by possibly running the ball as much as possible to run the clock out? Are you insane?

If we picked a player that plays slower than he was timed and has suspect hands (Julio Jones) in the 11 spot when our defense is this bad then we probably deserve to have our **** pushed in on defense over and over again. The fact of the matter is that our coaches could not gameplan a first half to save their lives. Couple years ago it was the opposite and they couldn't do a half-time adjustment to save their lives. The offense has plenty of talent spread around in enough different groups (I am pretty sure our guard/center play isn't going to be nearly as good as it was last year but we will see) to be successful. We average >24 points in a game, which is usually quite enough to win a game if your defense is even half assed. The day our crap defense out performs our offense (Again, I'm not saying it's fantastic or anything, it is above average though) then I'll think we need an O upgrade.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
LMAO. Mr. Tex. That is EXACTLY why these threads keep popping up. If your offense is a strength and the team is improved then why aren't you winning 10-11 games after 5 years under the same regime? You can say defense. Alright, who has been in charge of putting that together? You can say the offense is inconsistent and starts slow...which they have. Who does that fall on? You can say that we don't bring in the right FAs..who does that fall on? Your damn skippy that people wouldn't ***** as much at 10-11 wins because that means the team overcame the obstacles, is being coached up and still wins. But since it doesn't then the issues get parsed. You can't mask that. I have a feeling that the "offense is starting slow" threads would still be here because it is so obvious in games...I just think they would be geared towards trying to figure out how to correct it to get the team farther in the playoffs and to a championship...the goal. Unless you win it all, there is something to improve but the microscope isn't as harsh.
You don't have to be "coached up" to be able to overcome these obstacles...there have been plenty of teams over the years that have been able to win despite their HC...your cowboys a few years ago, Minnesota the same year etc.


& 2nd bolded part is my point. These threads still can be directed that way.. But too often people use these threads to Bash kubiak, Smith or the FO..."see this is why kubiak is garbage...etc."....as if there aren't other more obvious reasons they could use..It's makes it hard to have any kind of decent football discussion in here & its getting really old honestly. Plus, Kubiak's not the 1 out there throwing untimely picks or fumbling at the most critical times....that's the players..

Just b/c i won't place the blame for this teams solely on this regime does not mean:

I think kubiak is a great-good HC.

i think kubiak/smith were deserving of all this time they've had to turn this team around.

I thinnk that kubiak/smith have done a good job.


Yet when you take this stance around here or even remotely look at any aspect of this team in a positive light you get flamed...its getting ridiculous with some in here...not you by the way.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Sorry but there are plenty of inept offenses around the league and Houston is not one of them. NFL teams don't just roll over in the second half in almost every game from week 1 to week 16. That is bullshit conjecture that fans who are pissed off about this team have come up with. One score in the second half being chalked up to the opposing defense being lazy and thinking they already have a win? Okay. Letting the Texans tie games, and then go down and score and win (the few times they did it last year) or tie the game up in the 4th quarter with only a few minutes to go? You think they weren't trying when the score was tied or the Texans took a small lead? You don't think they were trying to protect their lead by possibly running the ball as much as possible to run the clock out? Are you insane?

If we picked a player that plays slower than he was timed and has suspect hands (Julio Jones) in the 11 spot when our defense is this bad then we probably deserve to have our **** pushed in on defense over and over again. The fact of the matter is that our coaches could not gameplan a first half to save their lives. Couple years ago it was the opposite and they couldn't do a half-time adjustment to save their lives. The offense has plenty of talent spread around in enough different groups (I am pretty sure our guard/center play isn't going to be nearly as good as it was last year but we will see) to be successful. We average >24 points in a game, which is usually quite enough to win a game if your defense is even half assed. The day our crap defense out performs our offense (Again, I'm not saying it's fantastic or anything, it is above average though) then I'll think we need an O upgrade.
How many high draft picks have we spent on D and what has been the result? It wouldn't hurt my feelings if we drafted Juio Jones. Kubes seems to get outcoached consistently in all phases of the game.
He reminds me of Dom Capers. A great coordinator but not so good as the head coach.
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
Defenses loosen up a bit when they have a lead. It's just human nature. It drives DCs crazy league-wide on a weekly basis. Not as if any of this should be news to anyone on this board. We have all watched enough football to know that.

However, Matt did a good, if not great, job last year. Guy should have had at least 5 come from behind victories last year. Arian and AJ played like the best WR/RB in the league. Tough to overrate that.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Except you are losing the last half of Belichick's self-contradictory quote.
It's not really a self-contradictory quote on Belichick's part. I used it out of the context that he said it.

But, it does serve the purpose that I, as a fan, only care about the end results. And those results are that we have a potentially high powered offense (notice none of my statements are downplaying our O), but since our HC/staff seems unable to field an even competent defense, it doesn't matter in the end.

It reminds me of all the great things said about the Oilers run-and-shoot offense back in the day. Breaking all kinds of records, even posting winning seasons and going to the playoffs, but at the end, the scoreboard was always for the other team.

We can celebrate our statistically great half-a-team until we are blue in the face, but ultimately, we are losing the big picture point.

The final score is the ultimate stat.
Exactly. Which is why I think over-analyzing half of the team that is actually good is irrelevant. If the wonderful offense can't win games for us, then they are just as much of losers as our historically bad defense.

If you see an offense putting up points at the top of the league then sure point out areas for improvement but it earned that rating. No the offense didn't spread the points out evenly over all four quarters to make people happy but at the end of the game if you have 24+ points and lost you might want to take a look at the D and how they suck rather than calling the O overrated. And there is something in between celebrating them being wonderful and being overrated.
Well, I never said the O was overrated. I don't see the merit of that premise. I just find it hard to celebrate statistics for a losing team, which is the point of bringing Belichick's quote up.

But, this is a typical off-season thread. :nolisten:
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
Defenses loosen up a bit when they have a lead. It's just human nature. It drives DCs crazy league-wide on a weekly basis. Not as if any of this should be news to anyone on this board. We have all watched enough football to know that.

However, Matt did a good, if not great, job last year. Guy should have had at least 5 come from behind victories last year. Arian and AJ played like the best WR/RB in the league. Tough to overrate that.
Agreed. Only to see the defense lose it for him/them. Sickening!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Our offense is highly ranked with regards to statistics!

"Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners."
~ Bill Belichick


:toropalm:
Bingo! I've been saying for the last two years that are offense is overrated in here any way. I don't think the rest of the league or the fans around the country feel that this offense is anywhere near as good as people on this particular site do. I've heard things like "the Texans scare the hell out of other teams" and stuff like that and there isn't one team in the league that the Texans actually scare. People seem to be in denial in here that the Texans are looked at just like the Detroit Lions, Bengals and the Bills are looked at.
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
How many high draft picks have we spent on D and what has been the result? It wouldn't hurt my feelings if we drafted Juio Jones. Kubes seems to get outcoached consistently in all phases of the game.
He reminds me of Dom Capers. A great coordinator but not so good as the head coach.
I don't know what our previous drafting has to do with the validity of a Julio Jones pick but okay? I mean it's good that you don't see any problems throwing away a high draft pick in a draft full of defensive talent on a luxury WR2 pick. I mean I guess it's good? I don't know, doesn't sound all that good now that I typed it out.

Bingo! I've been saying for the last two years that are offense is overrated in here any way. I don't think the rest of the league or the fans around the country feel that this offense is anywhere near as good as people on this particular site do. I've heard things like "the Texans scare the hell out of other teams" and stuff like that and there isn't one team in the league that the Texans actually scare. People seem to be in denial in here that the Texans are looked at just like the Detroit Lions, Bengals and the Bills are looked at.
As far as my interactions with football fans of other teams the bolded part is pretty wrong. Houston is viewed as an offensive powerhouse that has a defense so bad it doesn't matter because even Mark Sanchez could lead a come-from-behind-game-winning-TD-drive on us. This board is mostly full of hot air that is upset that the home team isn't winning everything they have a trophy for (Which, outside of the Rockets almost 20 years ago, is pretty much par for the course of Houston sports), and that we are going to nitpick and bullshit about every little thing we see wrong with our team because we are much more familiar with them. This is also par for the course for almost every sports team as the boards designed to promote chatter of just a certain team is always going to contain more extreme views about said team. We refer to these people here as Soapers and the Sunshine Crew, but there are many different names for both sects of fans. Go on to phinheaven.com and ask what they think of the Texans, or you could try silverandblack.com and see what they think of the Texans offense. Even the guys over at jaguars.com and coltfreaks.com respect the offensive firepower we have but both laugh at the terrible defenses we have fielded for the past 10 years.

Just because it sounds good in your head doesn't make it true.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
As far as my interactions with football fans of other teams the bolded part is pretty wrong. Houston is viewed as an offensive powerhouse...
I speak with folks all over this great country on a daily basis in my business, and I have constantly taken a lot of ridicule as a Texans fan. Such is life.

But, our team is marked as a "W" on the season calendar by other teams' fans. I am constantly razzed by my agents, vendors, and customers for being a Texans fan and have to hear them verbally beat down our team on a regular basis. Sucks, but what can I say? I just tell them I'm a homer and our ship will come into port some day.

So my own interaction with fans of other cities supports what Tex was saying. Yeah, they might somewhat respect our offense, but they certainly are not fearful of it. Good offense yes, but powerhouse perception not so much.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
As far as my interactions with football fans of other teams the bolded part is pretty wrong. Houston is viewed as an offensive powerhouse that has a defense so bad it doesn't matter because even Mark Sanchez could lead a come-from-behind-game-winning-TD-drive on us. This board is mostly full of hot air that is upset that the home team isn't winning everything they have a trophy for (Which, outside of the Rockets almost 20 years ago, is pretty much par for the course of Houston sports), and that we are going to nitpick and bullshit about every little thing we see wrong with our team because we are much more familiar with them. This is also par for the course for almost every sports team as the boards designed to promote chatter of just a certain team is always going to contain more extreme views about said team. We refer to these people here as Soapers and the Sunshine Crew, but there are many different names for both sects of fans. Go on to phinheaven.com and ask what they think of the Texans, or you could try silverandblack.com and see what they think of the Texans offense. Even the guys over at jaguars.com and coltfreaks.com respect the offensive firepower we have but both laugh at the terrible defenses we have fielded for the past 10 years.

Just because it sounds good in your head doesn't make it true.
I'm not sure what fans you've been talking to, but I interact with fans from everywhere practically and the majority of fans I talk to continually ask me why the hell Kubiak is still coaching here? They tell me that they feel sorry for Andre Johnson a lot as well and that they'd love to see what he could do with another team. That's the main things I've been asked over the last two seasons.

I never said we didn't have a good offense though or that other fans didn't think we had a good offense. I stated that many fans in here overrate this offense a lot and that other teams and fans are not "fearful" of our offense like many attempt to claim. Our offense is not nearly consistent enough for 4 quarters for teams to fear this offense nor does it finish teams off enough in close games when it's a make or break situation. With that being said, we're a respected offense that people feel is a pretty good one, but certainly not a dominant offense that any fans feel that they need to fear. Most of the time they mark a "W" on their calender just like they do with other historical losing teams.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I speak with folks all over this great country on a daily basis in my business, and I have constantly taken a lot of ridicule as a Texans fan. Such is life.

But, our team is marked as a "W" on the season calendar by other teams' fans. I am constantly razzed by my agents, vendors, and customers for being a Texans fan and have to hear them verbally beat down our team on a regular basis. Sucks, but what can I say? I just tell them I'm a homer and our ship will come into port some day.

So my own interaction with fans of other cities supports what Tex was saying. Yeah, they might somewhat respect our offense, but they certainly are not fearful of it. Good offense yes, but powerhouse perception not so much.
Yeah, but thats our team not our offense & my interactions with other level-headed teams' fans about ours are much like bongs. Sure they laugh & do pencil us in as W's but they acknowledge that our offense is pretty potent. It mainly stems from having AJ & looking at what schaub has done over the last couple of years. I also peruse other teams messageboards during the season after games & they say basically the same things.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Who cares about cap ramifications, the good teams seem to find ways to pay FA's they want. Why cant BoB?

BTW Mr. Tex iif you dont blame the Texans current problems on Rick and Gary who do you blame them on?

BoB?
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
I have a real question for you though. And we have discussed this before. The 24+ points at the end looks good. But in any way, shape or form do you think some of it has to do with defenses stepping back after getting big leagues? Not what you'd call trash because you have to fight. But it is only natural.
Very little. First off we sat at the top of the league with basically only offensive production while other teams had substantial contributions from special teams and defense. But putting that aside we did it too many times for teams to keep ignoring. I think we came from behind by 14+ points 10 times last season to at least tie the game. Guarantee you Baltimore wasn't playing soft when they allowed back to back 99 and 95 yard drives. I am sure some of the teams rolled even more coverage to AJ to make sure we didn't get a quick strike but overall I don't believe teams played soft against us in 2nd halves. We hung extra points on every top 10 D by points we played last year, two of them by big margins.

Who cares about cap ramifications, the good teams seem to find ways to pay FA's they want. Why cant BoB?
Analytical fans should care about cap ramifications. If signing Aso means losing AJ and Mario after a year it makes a difference and should be considered. You mean good teams like Indy, New England and Pittsburgh who are known for not paying for big free agents?
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yeah, but thats our team not our offense & my interactions with other level-headed teams' fans about ours are much like bongs. Sure they laugh & do pencil us in as W's but they acknowledge that our offense is pretty potent. It mainly stems from having AJ & looking at what schaub has done over the last couple of years. I also peruse other teams messageboards during the season after games & they say basically the same things.
I don't doubt that our offense could be considered potent, but I have to stop short of calling it a powerhouse.

If the offense could come out in games consistently putting points on the board at the beginning, as well as carry some games and close them out, then I might be able to grasp the powerhouse term.

No doubt that it's a potent offense and potentially capable of scoring points. But, they do not seem to be able to impose their will on defenses all the time. That, to me, is what powerhouse offenses can do (i.e. Manning/Colts).

Let's be honest here, a lot of our offensive stats are from the end of games when the opposing defense is playing prevent and have let their guard down from carrying a lead the whole game.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't know what our previous drafting has to do with the validity of a Julio Jones pick but okay? I mean it's good that you don't see any problems throwing away a high draft pick in a draft full of defensive talent on a luxury WR2 pick. I mean I guess it's good? I don't know, doesn't sound all that good now that I typed it out.
I was pointing out the obvious fact that we've wasted a LOT of high draft picks on D and we still have the crappiest D (or damn close to it) in the league. Drafting DE in the upper half of the 1st is a gamble. Lots and lots of them were busts in the last 10 years. There's no way we end up with Miller/Peterson/Akemenura, so I would I wouldn't mind seeing us draft JJ at 11 if he's there. i like the kid and think he could be a great receiver, especially if AJ takes him under his wing and Jacoby Jones doesn't influence him too much. :cowboy1:
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
I don't doubt that our offense could be considered potent, but I have to stop short of calling it a powerhouse.
I wouldn't call it powerhouse either. They can't score at will. I would say it is scary to DC's because a game can look great and then the O klicks and hangs 21 on you.

Let's be honest here, a lot of our offensive stats are from the end of games when the opposing defense is playing prevent and have let their guard down from carrying a lead the whole game.
I really don't agree with that. We've caught up with too many teams for the league to be ignorant and I didn't see that kind of loose coverage.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Who cares about cap ramifications, the good teams seem to find ways to pay FA's they want. Why cant BoB?

BTW Mr. Tex iif you dont blame the Texans current problems on Rick and Gary who do you blame them on?

BoB?
I didn't say i didn't blame them on them..I said i don't blame them solely on them. big difference. Everyone's got a piece of the blame which is what i don't think people on this site fully acknowledge enough.

As i said, that ain't kubiak out there bobbling passes into the defenders hands for an int. (AJ). That wasn't rick smith out there throwing ducks & inaccurate throws..(schaub). That wasn't bob mcnair out there shanking 10 yd punts (Turk). Of course the coaches take some responsibilites b/c they brought them here, but no one is seriously clamoring for us to get rid of AJ & schaub.......& they've been here just as long as Smithiak. The players play & deserve some of the blame, the good ones & the bad ones. P

when analyst reference "strong lockerrooms", they're rarely talking about the coaches, they're mostly talking about the 1-3 players that drive their teams to perfection & infuse an infectious winning attitude throughout the whole team. Sure some of that comes from the top down but it's the players that really drive it home.
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
I'm not sure what fans you've been talking to, but I interact with fans from everywhere practically and the majority of fans I talk to continually ask me why the hell Kubiak is still coaching here? They tell me that they feel sorry for Andre Johnson a lot as well and that they'd love to see what he could do with another team. That's the main things I've been asked over the last two seasons.
And none of that has any relevance to what they think of the offense.

I never said we didn't have a good offense though or that other fans didn't think we had a good offense. I stated that many fans in here overrate this offense a lot and that other teams and fans are not "fearful" of our offense like many attempt to claim. Our offense is not nearly consistent enough for 4 quarters for teams to fear this offense nor does it finish teams off enough in close games when it's a make or break situation. With that being said, we're a respected offense that people feel is a pretty good one, but certainly not a dominant offense that any fans feel that they need to fear. Most of the time they mark a "W" on their calender just like they do with other historical losing teams.
Texecutioner said:
Bingo! I've been saying for the last two years that are offense is overrated in here any way.
Sorry Texecutioner but you are overrated as a poster. No I'm not saying you are specifically BAD but just overrated. Do you see how that works? Usually when you are saying that a team or something isn't as good as normal public perception, then they are probably not "good". The fact is, most other fans fear the offense but laugh at the defense. Almost every write-up I read last year coming from opposing fan bases involved "The offense is potent, Arian Foster, Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub are all high level players, you must watch out as they will inevitably score a ton of points at some time in the game. The defense is so bad that this isn't an issue."

I mean, golf clap for you guys who have the foresight to forego any logical reasoning or evidence in order to get the jump on saying that the offense is overrated. I'm just not buying it now, nor have I ever bvought that line of reasoning no matter when it was presented last season. No offense truly dominates for all 4 quarters of an NFL game unless the mis-match is gigantic (Think Seahawks or Rams games from 2009, or the Titans game from '10). But the fact of the matter is, nobody has said that the offense was the best in the league or the most consistent, and I think most people here would agree that our offense is probably ~10th best in the league give or take who you are putting above and what sort of changes they might have to go through if there is an offseason. I'm trying to think of teams that have better offenses overall and outside of the Pats, Packers, Colts, Atlanta (I guess?), Chargers (Maybe?), Saints (Maybe?). Most teams don't have pro bowl caliber players at QB, RB, and WR, and most teams don't average 24 - 25 points a game. Plus, out of those teams, most of them have a defense that will actually give the team good field position within a game at least once.

Like I said, around the league the general feeling is that the offense is pretty much in place and can compete with almost any defense in this league but the defense is so shitty and terrible that it really doesn't matter because even the Jets can win a shoot out if you're really going to be dumb with your D.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I didn't say i didn't blame them on them..I said i don't blame them solely on them. big difference. Everyone's got a piece of the blame which is what i don't think people on this site fully acknowledge enough.

As i said, that ain't kubiak out there bobbling passes into the defenders hands for an int. (AJ). That wasn't rick smith out there throwing ducks & inaccurate throws..(schaub). That wasn't bob mcnair out there shanking 10 yd punts (Turk). Of course the coaches take some responsibilites b/c they brought them here, but no one is seriously clamoring for us to get rid of AJ & schaub.......& they've been here just as long as Smithiak. The players play & deserve some of the blame, the good ones & the bad ones. P

when analyst reference "strong lockerrooms", they're rarely talking about the coaches, they're mostly talking about the 1-3 players that drive their teams to perfection & infuse an infectious winning attitude throughout the whole team. Sure some of that comes from the top down but it's the players that really drive it home.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the Texans should hire Biggio and Bagwell to hang out in the lockerroom. Those two know how it's done.
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
I was pointing out the obvious fact that we've wasted a LOT of high draft picks on D and we still have the crappiest D (or damn close to it) in the league. Drafting DE in the upper half of the 1st is a gamble. Lots and lots of them were busts in the last 10 years. There's no way we end up with Miller/Peterson/Akemenura, so I would I wouldn't mind seeing us draft JJ at 11 if he's there. i like the kid and think he could be a great receiver, especially if AJ takes him under his wing and Jacoby Jones doesn't influence him too much. :cowboy1:
But, as with most of the picks, they were generally considered good picks because we absolutely needed players at those positions at the time they were picked. We needed a solid DT when we picked Okoye (sucks he hasn't done anything but get worse since his rookie season), we needed an LB when we picked Cush, we needed a CB when we picked Ice Kareem. We don't need a WR2 so badly that we need to spend an 11 on him. We do absolutely need D-line, LB, and secondary help in such a bad way that spending an 11 on almost any player of those positions would be seen as mostly logical and at least trying to get better in places where we need improvement. And don't be so sure that Akumara is going to be gone for good by the time the 11 rolls around. I would be highly upset that we are going to spend the portion of our draft where we have access to elite defensive talent on a guy who gets beat up in the college levels and overall doesn't seem nearly as sure of a thing as the WR above him. I'd much rather look for AJ's sidekick on the 2nd or 3rd days of the draft, I'd be ****ing fuming if we did that on day one.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Let's be honest here, a lot of our offensive stats are from the end of games when the opposing defense is playing prevent and have let their guard down from carrying a lead the whole game.
I don't agree with that. You might be able to say that about the Giants & the 2nd Colts games b/c we were thouroughly dominated in those games & had very little chance of coming back. The rest of our games however, we were very much in at half time on into the 4th quarters despite only scoring 3-7 pts in the 1st half in many of those games. Even the cowboys game; the final score looks pretty bad but we were only down 7 at the half despite only scoring 3 pts.

Plus as I-cak says, we did it to many times for any competent coach to want to rest by playing prevent.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
But, as with most of the picks, they were generally considered good picks because we absolutely needed players at those positions at the time they were picked. We needed a solid DT when we picked Okoye (sucks he hasn't done anything but get worse since his rookie season), we needed an LB when we picked Cush, we needed a CB when we picked Ice Kareem. We don't need a WR2 so badly that we need to spend an 11 on him. We do absolutely need D-line, LB, and secondary help in such a bad way that spending an 11 on almost any player of those positions would be seen as mostly logical and at least trying to get better in places where we need improvement. And don't be so sure that Akumara is going to be gone for good by the time the 11 rolls around. I would be highly upset that we are going to spend the portion of our draft where we have access to elite defensive talent on a guy who gets beat up in the college levels and overall doesn't seem nearly as sure of a thing as the WR above him. I'd much rather look for AJ's sidekick on the 2nd or 3rd days of the draft, I'd be ****ing fuming if we did that on day one.
I see that as drafting for need as opposed to drafting BPA. Sometimes you get lucky when you draft for need. Most times, you don't. I still don't know what to think of Okoye. I can STILL see potential, but I'm not sure his heart is in it. The jury is still out on Cush. The whole PED suspension and sub par sophomore season makes one wonder.
As for Prince ( I hate trying to spell his last name. lol), I'm not sold on him. Good receivers burned him pretty good.
We could also get a very good CB in the 2nd or trade up into the late 1st and get one on a par with Prince. Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris should be around then. I want to see us pick the most talented player on the board at 11, unless he's a P, PK or return specialist. I'll leave those picks to Da Raiduhs.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't agree with that. You might be able to say that about the Giants, Cowboys & the 2nd Colts games b/c we were thouroughly dominated in those games & had very little chance of coming back. The rest of our games however, we were very much in at half time on into the 4th quarters despite only scoring 3-7 pts in the 1st half in many of those games. Even the cowboys game; the final score looks pretty bad but we were only down 7 at the half despite only scoring 3 pts.

Plus as I-cak says, we did it to many times for any competent coach to want to rest by playing prevent.
Fixed it for ya!! :worldpeace:
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
I see that as drafting for need as opposed to drafting BPA. Sometimes you get lucky when you draft for need. Most times, you don't. I still don't know what to think of Okoye. I can STILL see potential, but I'm not sure his heart is in it. The jury is still out on Cush. The whole PED suspension and sub par sophomore season makes one wonder.
Right, but I can't possibly see the Texans having Jones as BPA over players like Bowers, Quinn, Watt, Jordan, or one of the other myriad of D-line players that are highly rated for this draft. I am of the mind that an approach to BPA on defense is our best bet. If AJ Green is there then yeah, pick his ass because he looks legit. Not as sold on Jones and I don't think we should take a position like that when our D was so so so bad.

As for Prince ( I hate trying to spell his last name. lol), I'm not sold on him. Good receivers burned him pretty good.
We could also get a very good CB in the 2nd or trade up into the late 1st and get one on a par with Prince. Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris should be around then. I want to see us pick the most talented player on the board at 11, unless he's a P, PK or return specialist. I'll leave those picks to Da Raiduhs.
This is why I think that Akumara will be around at 11. He's got a lot of flags about his game and there's a couple other trenders like Jimmy Smith or even that CB out of Miami that could be just as good of players I think. I mean if we were really going to take an offensive player in the first round I'd hope that we can trade back some and pick up one of the top rated G/C players, which I think wouldn't be too bad if we didn't need help on the defense so badly.
 
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