3-4 Defensive End

[Mari-OWNED!]

Is there any reason to justify the Texans drafting a defensive end in the first round for their new 3-4 defense? More than just a few mock drafts have the Texans going that route, which to me is a bit of a head-scratcher.

I was under the impression that Mario and Antonio would stay at defensive end, so wouldn't the Texans have more pressing needs to address in the first round?

 

[aussie_texan]

yeah i agree.

there are definitely more important needs then DE even though there are some standout players like jj watt and cameron jordan that could play there.

we have a few players that could rotate through there as well like amobi and even earl mitchell.

even though our staff say he'll play the NT i think he'll be in the rotation at DE as well and i see him doing a good job there in wade's 3-4 style of play, being that quick off the line kind of guy that he is.

 

[Wolf6151]

This is a very deep DE draft but it just doesn't fit our needs in the 1st round. Any DE would just sit on the bench behind Mario and Antonio.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Not unless they're going to deal someone, which I don't expect.

Mocks should have us going 3-4 OLB, NT, DB, and possibly... just possibly WR.

Or TE, of course.

 

[nero THE zero]

It makes plenty of sense if they feel Cameron Jordan or Marcel Darius is BPA.

1. Mario is a FA after this year.
2. Antonio Smith has been more than vocal about not wanting to play in the 3-4.
3. The team is still unsure of Mario's role in this system. He could fit anywhere from NT, to DE, to OLB.

 

[infantrycak]

2. Antonio Smith has been more than vocal about not wanting to play in the 3-4.

Really, where?

3. The team is still unsure of Mario's role in this system. He could fit anywhere from NT, to DE, to OLB.

Again, source? Fan speculation and "the team is still unsure" aren't the same things. I have seen no suggestion that he will be anything other than DE. The fact that he may move around on alignment, hand up, hand down doesn't mean he is any less a DE just like he has been moving around in the 4-3 in that fashion.

 

[otisbean]

If the BPA is a DE then they should grab him. We have zero depth at the position. I guess Cody could play there in a pinch, Okoye doesn't have the length to deal with OTs. I think Okoye either plays NT or he ends up being traded.

I would expect us to grab a DE with a fairly high pick, 1-3 rds

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

If the BPA is a DE then they should grab him. We have zero depth at the position. I guess Cody could play there in a pinch, Okoye doesn't have the length to deal with OTs. I think Okoye either plays NT or he ends up being traded.

I would expect us to grab a DE with a fairly high pick, 1-3 rds

I'm thinking the same thing. If they have Cameron Jordan or JJ Watt rated really high, I wouldn't be upset with the pick. If they think one is a franchise type DE... i'll have no issues. Smith is supposedly moving inside again to DT in pass rushing situations. So having an extra DE available won't hurt. We gotta keep all these guys fresh

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Really, where?

When Antonio first came here, a lot of his sound bites were about how he preferred playing DE in a 4-3 situation compared to the 3-4 that the Cardinals were moving to. He also said that he preferred to play End and not Tackle and he wanted to play DE all 4 downs.

Now, it turns out that he played some good snaps at DT for us and as much as he said he didn't want to do it, he manned up and worked.

I don't expect him to have any problems playing 3-4 DE.

 

[otisbean]

I'm thinking the same thing. If they have Cameron Jordan or JJ Watt rated really high, I wouldn't be upset with the pick. If they think one is a franchise type DE... i'll have no issues. Smith is supposedly moving inside again to DT in pass rushing situations. So having an extra DE available won't hurt. We gotta keep all these guys fresh

You also have to consider potential injuries. We'd be screwed if something happened to Smith or MW. Additionally, drafting a good young DE would allow us some flexibility with MW and how he's used.

Im hoping for both QBs to drafted in the top 10 pushing a good defensive player to us or that someone a team below us really covets falls to 11 allowing us to trade back to pick up extra picks to help with our transition.

 

[steelbtexan]

They need to draft a DE in the 4-6 td range for depth purposes. Brandon Bair DE ORE. and David Carter DT/DE UCLA are good players that should be available in that range.

 

[IDEXAN]

Is there any reason to justify the Texans drafting a defensive end in the first round for their new 3-4 defense? More than just a few mock drafts have the Texans going that route, which to me is a bit of a head-scratcher.

I was under the impression that Mario and Antonio would stay at defensive end, so wouldn't the Texans have more pressing needs to address in the first round?

Know this, there's many, many people who produce mocks who have no clue what defense the Texans plan to operate from this season. For all they know we're converting from the 3-4 to the 4-3.

 

[nero THE zero]

Really, where?

Both when he was a pending FA with the Cardinals and again when word of Wade Phillips' hire Smith was quoted on interviews as saying he preferred 4-3 end. I posted at some point about it when we signed him. You can search and find it if you don't believe me.

Again, source? Fan speculation and "the team is still unsure" aren't the same things. I have seen no suggestion that he will be anything other than DE. The fact that he may move around on alignment, hand up, hand down doesn't mean he is any less a DE just like he has been moving around in the 4-3 in that fashion.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...-Herring/fe142f29-2f64-45fc-b618-366d2a02af1e

“I think Mario falls into the same category of we’ll start him out at defensive end and then see where he goes. Hopefully that’ll work out there, and if it doesn’t, then we’ll find another place to put him. But right now, I know Coach (Phillips) is wanting to try him at defensive end.

.
There have been similar quotes from Phillips regarding Mario's role. I don't know if this stems from Mario's hesitation to play in the 3-4, or if coaches are "fighting" over where Mario will play (i.e. Herring wants him at LB, Kollar coach wants him on the line), but in every quote regarding where Mario will play there is a level on ambivalence that isn't really matched by any other player.

That's not to say I don't think he'll play end. I think he will and I thought he would the second we hired Wade Phillips. I'm just saying that there are plenty of reasons it would make sense to draft a DE. And, if the Texans aren't 100% sure where Mario will play, which is obviously the case, then drafting another DE would not be a bad idea if you value that player as the best available.

 

[infantrycak]

When Antonio first came here, a lot of his sound bites were about how he preferred playing DE in a 4-3 situation compared to the 3-4 that the Cardinals were moving to. He also said that he preferred to play End and not Tackle and he wanted to play DE all 4 downs.

Now, it turns out that he played some good snaps at DT for us and as much as he said he didn't want to do it, he manned up and worked.

I don't expect him to have any problems playing 3-4 DE.

Both when he was a pending FA with the Cardinals and again when word of Wade Phillips' hire Smith was quoted on interviews as saying he preferred 4-3 end. I posted at some point about it when we signed him. You can search and find it if you don't believe me.

I recall the quotes from when he was a free agent. Sure 4-3 DE is his preference. But as Pencil notes he has been called on to play DT quite a bit and I haven't heard a peep of dissatisfaction.

I think you are reading a little much into Herring's (who just got here and started looking at the players) quote. But anyway, thanks for answering.

As for player preferences, meh, I bet about the only DL guys who prefer playing in a 3-4 are 4-3 DT's like Gary Walker who get moved to 3-4 DE.

 

[rmartin65]

I would take JJ Watt at 11 in a heartbeat. The dude is a stud, and can only get better with refined technique. It is between him, Houston and Jones for the guys I want at that spot.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

I would take JJ Watt at 11 in a heartbeat. The dude is a stud, and can only get better with refined technique. It is between him, Houston and Jones for the guys I want at that spot.

JJ Watt just seems like one of those blue collar lunch pail hard working FOOTBALL players, to me. A guy Bill Bilichick would covet and draft anywhere, probably take him Top 10 without blinking. I could see him being a big part of the success of the defense, winning his battles... and doing his part.

 

[WolverineFan]

My top guys would be Peterson, Miller, and Dareus. If we had lost to Jville that would be realistic, but it's not.

After that you got guys like Houston, Watt, Jordan, or Amakumura. I'd like to see us take an OLB but you can't fault them if they take a DE or NT.

I would go defense 100% with this pick and even if that were not the case I would not touch Julio Jones. Guy has bust written all over him.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

My top guys would be Peterson, Miller, and Dareus. If we had lost to Jville that would be realistic, but it's not.

After that you got guys like Houston, Watt, Jordan, or Amakumura. I'd like to see us take an OLB but you can't fault them if they take a DE or NT.

I would go defense 100% with this pick and even if that were not the case I would not touch Julio Jones. Guy has bust written all over him.

I really like Dareus but like you said I think we have no shot at him. I think he's so versatile for the DL, Wade would be doing backflips. Couldn't you just see that!??

I'd be interested to hear why you think Julio is going to be a bust. Is it because he's been injured quite frequently? He's tough and played through them... broke his hand during the season, had surgery and came back the next game and played. I think he's the the perfect fit for a WR on this team and would excel opposite Andre.

I think Prince has a much greater chance of busting than Julio.

 

[Rey]

I'm going to say that we don't need a 3-4 DE in the first round of this draft. JMO.

Gonna be interesting to see how the Texans put together this defense...I think we need atleast one impact player over there if we want to really turn this d around...

Gonna be interesting to see how much pressure they put on Wade to use his scheme/coaching to get the job done vs. acquiring talent...

A good combonation of both talent and coaching would be excellent..

 

[beerlover]

The problem I see just from reading everyones post is Texans are on a collision course with reaching for need over BPA.

 

[thunderkyss]

Gonna be interesting to see how much pressure they put on Wade to use his scheme/coaching to get the job done vs. acquiring talent...

How many talented players do you believe is in this draft?

 

[steelbtexan]

The problem I see just from reading everyones post is Texans are on a collision course with reaching for need over BPA.

They do this every draft.

Luckily this draft is defense heavy and with J.Jones and I believe 2 QB's taken in the top 10 picks. There should be an elite defender there at #11.

 

[rmartin65]

I just dont see why people are not absolutely giddy about JJ Watt.

Take these 2 DEs

DE #1
6'7" 290 lbs
4.7 40 yard
35 reps
40.5" vertical
10' broad
4.37 20 yd shuttle
7.21 cone
62 tackles, 24 TFL, 14.5 sacks

DE #2
6'5" 290 lbs
4.8 40 yard
34 reps
37" vertical
10' broad
4.21 20 yd shuttle
6.88 cone
62 tackles, 21 TFL, 7 sacks





DE #1 is Mario, #2 is Watt

Add the fact that Watt has only played the position 2 years, and reportedly has an unreal work ethic, and I want Watt at 11.

 

[infantrycak]

The problem I see just from reading everyones post is Texans are on a collision course with reaching for need over BPA.

One of the reasons draft talk almost turns me off is EVERY YEAR for EVERY TEAM fans focus on needs. There are a million threads with 1st - DT, 2nd - FS, etc.

Fans almost universally hate the idea of BPA until a couple years down the road when they can complain a team didn't go BPA after the results are in.

The other reason draft talk often turns me off is folks acting like players walk around with little price tags on them so it is obvious X is worth the #17 pick. Then after the draft some draftnik complains X was a reach at #15.

/useless annual draft rant.

 

[thunderkyss]

DE #1 is Mario, #2 is Watt

Add the fact that Watt has only played the position 2 years, and reportedly has an unreal work ethic, and I want Watt at 11.

I wish I knew who to get in a tizzy about. I'm not a draftnik..... yet.

But I would have no problem if the Texans went this route, & put Mario, JJ Watt, Antonio, & Amobi in a decent rotation at DE. I know we've payed a lot for Antonio to put him second on the depth chart, but our rotation up front isn't up to snuff & never has been. Amobi & Antonio coming off the bench would be sweet.

 

[Rey]

How many talented players do you believe is in this draft?

Talented is different from potentially impactful...

I think the draft is loaded with talent...But I think there are a couple of guys that will go in the top five that are going to be certified...

I think Kareem Jackson is talented..Amobi Okoye...Connor Barwin...Duane Brown...All of those guys have talent IMO...

I just wouldn't call any of them impact players...I don't know if we are going to find guys that are going to come in and immediately pay huge dividends...I don't think getting a talented rookie that shows flashes every now and then is going to get it done as far as significantly upgrading our defense...

It's not impossible, but I would think this Coaching staff would want to do as much as they reasonably could to maximize their chances of success next year...

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

One of the reasons draft talk almost turns me off is EVERY YEAR for EVERY TEAM fans focus on needs. There are a million threads with 1st - DT, 2nd - FS, etc.

Fans almost universally hate the idea of BPA until a couple years down the road when they can complain a team didn't go BPA after the results are in.

The other reason draft talk often turns me of is folks acting like players walk around with little price tags on them so it is obvious X is worth the #17 pick. Then after the draft some draftnik complains X was a reach at #15.

/useless annual draft rant.

100% on all three statements. It's ridiculous. People overstate the "BPA" mentality by saying, "well what if QB is the best player... would you take 2 QBs if they're BPA and you already have a good one?" Come on now people. Constantly selecting need over BPA may get you a solid team down the road. Constantly selecting BPA... you're team will have better talent overall. But most people are looking for a 1 year fix.

I just dont see why people are not absolutely giddy about JJ Watt.

Add the fact that Watt has only played the position 2 years, and reportedly has an unreal work ethic, and I want Watt at 11.

Two of my top 5 for the Texans are Cameron Jordan and JJ Watt. I would love to build a solid tough D-Line. Both apparently have great work ethics and are nonstop hustle every play.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

1. DE JJ Watt
2. OLB Brooks Reed
3. S Deandre McDaniel

Grab a solid young veteran CB in free agency... that could shape up to be a pretty stout defense for yeeeaarrrs to come.

 

[bah007]

1. DE JJ Watt
2. OLB Brooks Reed
3. S Deandre McDaniel

Grab a solid young veteran CB in free agency... that could shape up to be a pretty stout defense for yeeeaarrrs to come.

I think McDaniel goes in the mid to late second, but if we could somehow come out with that haul I would be ecstatic.

 

[thunderkyss]

100% on all three statements. It's ridiculous. People overstate the "BPA" mentality by saying, "well what if QB is the best player... would you take 2 QBs if they're BPA and you already have a good one?" Come on now people. Constantly selecting need over BPA may get you a solid team down the road. Constantly selecting BPA... you're team will have better talent overall. But most people are looking for a 1 year fix.

I don't agree with this. The most successful team over the last decade has turned up their nose to BPA so many times it isn't funny.

However, they work the draft, move down, collect picks, move up, use those picks, they work the draft, get the guy they need, and move on.

I'm talking about the Patriots. A team that will cut a second round pick before the rookie contract is up, before they start him simply because he was their second round pick.

In a way, I agree with you, if the Pats couldn't trade down, they take the BPA, but they work the draft to fill their needs.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

I don't agree with this. The most successful team over the last decade has turned up their nose to BPA so many times it isn't funny.

However, they work the draft, move down, collect picks, move up, use those picks, they work the draft, get the guy they need, and move on.

I'm talking about the Patriots. A team that will cut a second round pick before the rookie contract is up, before they start him simply because he was their second round pick.

In a way, I agree with you, if the Pats couldn't trade down, they take the BPA, but they work the draft to fill their needs.

See, now we're talking about something different alltogether. I love how the Patriots maneuver through the draft. The Patriots to me are a very systematic team and they're great at finding quality players to fit their team. It's a lot easier to do when you've already got a good team already with great coaching. They HAVE to cut players they draft because they draft 12+ players every year and don't have enough room on their roster. I think the Patriots very much prescribe to the BPA method. But they take players they have rated highest on their board... this is where the draft gets so convoluted. Kiper/Mayock/etc have their draft board of prospects but each team has a different one specific to their team. A top 10 talent on Kipers list could be a 3rd round pick or undraftable on some teams boards.

I think Rick Smith 'wants' to be like the Patriots... I know McNair does. Smith wants to be able to get proper value for his selections and does look to trade down if the opportunity presents itself. Look at 2008 when we traded down and took Duane Brown. Some say he was a reach there, but we needed a LT in the worst way and instead of "reaching" for one at #18... he traded down and got better value on a guy that Gibbs' apparently loved (filled the need but traded down). Last year, we traded down in the 2nd round to try and get better value on a RB... another need. So while we did address "need", we at least got better "value" out of addressing it.

I just find the nfl draft so intruiging. Everybody likes a different method, including NFL front offices. The "good" news for us is that there are so many places on our team that need upgrading, we SHOULD be able to select the absolute best player available... the #1 player on our draft board at that time and he will fill a need of ours.

 

[mussop]

1. DE JJ Watt
2. OLB Brooks Reed
3. S Deandre McDaniel

Grab a solid young veteran CB in free agency... that could shape up to be a pretty stout defense for yeeeaarrrs to come.

I think Reed could be a steal in the second round.

 

[thunderkyss]

See, now we're talking about something different alltogether. I love how the Patriots maneuver through the draft. The Patriots to me are a very systematic team and they're great at finding quality players to fit their team. It's a lot easier to do when you've already got a good team already with great coaching. They HAVE to cut players they draft because they draft 12+ players every year and don't have enough room on their roster. I think the Patriots very much prescribe to the BPA method. But they take players they have rated highest on their board... this is where the draft gets so convoluted. Kiper/Mayock/etc have their draft board of prospects but each team has a different one specific to their team. A top 10 talent on Kipers list could be a 3rd round pick or undraftable on some teams boards.

I think Rick Smith 'wants' to be like the Patriots... I know McNair does. Smith wants to be able to get proper value for his selections and does look to trade down if the opportunity presents itself. Look at 2008 when we traded down and took Duane Brown. Some say he was a reach there, but we needed a LT in the worst way and instead of "reaching" for one at #18... he traded down and got better value on a guy that Gibbs' apparently loved (filled the need but traded down). Last year, we traded down in the 2nd round to try and get better value on a RB... another need. So while we did address "need", we at least got better "value" out of addressing it.

I just find the nfl draft so intruiging. Everybody likes a different method, including NFL front offices. The "good" news for us is that there are so many places on our team that need upgrading, we SHOULD be able to select the absolute best player available... the #1 player on our draft board at that time and he will fill a need of ours.

MSR