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Bill Cowher coaching record with and without Dick LeBeau

stingray

stingray

Hall of Fame
There's a huge diference in Cowher's overall record with and without Dick LeBeau.

With LeBeau, his record as a head coach is 87-41

Without, he is 62-49. Not terrible but nothing special.

And since Cowher left, Mike Tomlin's record is 43-21 with LeBeau as the Def coordinator.

What does it mean? Cowher might just be a tad bit overated. I think LeBeau is the real architect of the Steelers machine.

Ohh and LeBeau also was the def coordinator or the def backs coach for the Bengals in the 80's who went to two super bowls during that time. The Bengals have not even sniffed a super bowl since then.
 
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He also made the playoffs 7 out of 8 years with Dickie L.
He made the playoffs only 3 out of 7 years without him.
 
Just noticed something. Dick L was not the def coordinator the first three years with Cowher. He was the defensive backs coach.
 
stingray said:
Just noticed something. Dick L was not the def coordinator the first three years with Cowher. He was the defensive backs coach.
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And LeBeau may very well leave the Steelers after this year. If he does, we will find out just how good a coach Tomlin is.
 
I know the dude is up there age-wise, but how has he not gotten a chance at a HC gig yet in the NFL? Heck, even at his age I'd still take him if it were up to me!
 
Texan4Ever said:
I know the dude is up there age-wise, but how has he not gotten a chance at a HC gig yet in the NFL? Heck, even at his age I'd still take him if it were up to me!
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He has. He stunk it up in Cincy as head coach in 2000-02. Went 12-33 over 3 years. Then he was asst head coach the next year in Buffalo where they went 6-10.

He was dbacks coach when Cincy was dominant. In 1984 --The year he was promoted to DC -- they dropped from the top ranked D to 13th. They didn't have a D ranked in the top half again until 1989, when they were 15th in defense and went 12-4. They then finished 25th and 28th in consecutive years and LeBeau was fired.

Dick LeBeau is a very good coordinator, but let's not go overboard with the praise.

He also says "if he stays coaching, it will be with Steelers."
 
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Interesting. To add to it:

Mike Tomlin has been HC for 4 years, all with Dick LeBeau.

He has gone to the playoffs 3 of the 4 years.
He has won the division 3 of the 4 years.
He has reached the AFC Championship 2 of the 3 playoff appearances.
He has won both AFC Championship Games.
Has gone to the Super Bowl 2 times.
Has 1 Super Bowl win and will be playing the 2nd one in a week.
Only season of not making the playoffs, the Steelers were 9-7.

Looking at Cowher's first 4 seasons, LeBeau was DB coach the first 3 years and DC the 4th year:
He went to the playoffs all 4 seasons, winning the division 3 times and getting a wildcard spot once with a 9-7 record.
Lost Divisional game first year.
Lost Wildcard games second year.
Lost AFC Championship third year.
Lost Super Bowl fourth year.


If the Steelers win the Super Bowl, Tomlin will have 2 Super Bowls with his 2 AFC Championships in 4 years. Cowher has 1 Super Bowl with his 2 AFC Championships in 15 years.
 
Was Bill Parcells any less of a HoF head coach because he's had Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin and Sean Payton on his staffs?

Is Bill Walsh's legacy diminished because his staff was full of future greats?

WalshCoachingTree.jpg


Great head coaches make great decisions about picking their staff, and the staffs of great head coaches often go on to establish their own coaching legacies.
 
I am not saying that Bill Cowher is an average coach. The dude can coach. He is a great motivator which is 50% of the game. I just wanna see what he can do in another organization before I put him in the category of a Parcells or Walsh. Parcells won no matter where he went. Parcells was as good with X and O's as he was as a motivator. Walsh pretty much re-invented an offense. He revolutionized the game. I am sure Cowher will get another shot in the NFL and we will find out what he can do with another organization on his own.
 
I guess all of a sudden now Mike Tomlin is going to be heralded as some guy who is an all time great and a better coach than Cowher was somehow because he'll end up with two rings which is one better than what Cowher has all because he took over Bill Cowher's team that Cowher built and already won with. You guys kill me with this stuff. Lol!

DB's example of the coahing tree with Walsh was a perfect example of how stupid this thread is when we're talking about a guy with the history and record that Cowher built for all of those years. The guy's already been talked about as a HOF coach.

I guess we should discredit all of Bill Walsh's SB rings since Seifert came in and won one right away and then won another one a few years later and just credit the coordinators and assistants for all of Walsh's rings as well using the same criteria that's being used here to discredit Cowher. Then while we're at it, we'll take away any credit that Jimmy Johnson may have earned for his SB rings since Barry Switzer won one with the team he built as well.
 
Texecutioner said:
I guess all of a sudden now Mike Tomlin is going to be heralded as some guy who is an all time great and a better coach than Cowher was somehow because he'll end up with two rings which is one better than what Cowher has all because he took over Bill Cowher's team that Cowher built and already won with. You guys kill me with this stuff. Lol!

DB's example of the coahing tree with Walsh was a perfect example of how stupid this thread is when we're talking about a guy with the history and record that Cowher built for all of those years. The guy's already been talked about as a HOF coach.

I guess we should discredit all of Bill Walsh's SB rings since Seifert came in and won one right away and then won another one a few years later and just credit the coordinators and assistants for all of Walsh's rings as well using the same criteria that's being used here to discredit Cowher. Then while we're at it, we'll take away any credit that Jimmy Johnson may have earned for his SB rings since Barry Switzer won one with the team he built as well.
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Dude, take a chill pill. This a thread about an OPINION. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it stupid as you stated. I stated my case with stats, that is all.

Also, Nobody is saying that Cowher is dogmeat. He is a good coach, a hell of a coach. All I am saying that he had a defensive sidekick that is considered my many as the greatest defensive genius of all time.

And Jimmy Johnson had a great run for a short period of time. But he didn't do so well when he went to the Dolphins. And he isn't in the Hall of Fame and might never make it. And he won three Super Bowls. So what happens if Cowher goes to another team and stinks it up? Do you still consider him a HOF coach?

And Mike Tomlin will not be considered a better coach than Cowher just because he wins another Super Bowl. But if he has another 5 years of putting up these kind of wins per season then he probably will. And if he keeps LeBeau on his staff during this time he will put up 12 plus wins every year.
 
stingray said:
Dude, take a chill pill. This a thread about an OPINION. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it stupid as you stated. I stated my case with stats, that is all.
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Sorry, but you fail to realize that your stats are more of an argument as to why Cowher was a great HC with or without Lebeau than what your purpose of the thread was. This just doesn't come off as an informed article.

Like I said, we could do this all day with any long term winning coach, and that's what makes this thread silly to me. The fact that Cowher had success before and with Lebeau speaks volumes about his abilities before Lebeau was ever there and his abilities to see a DC that was able to really help him to build that franchise and to continue the success he already had. Why aren't you willing to give Cowher credit for "hiring" Lebeau? And do you honestly think that Lebeau didn't learn anything from Cowher who was also a defensive coach prior to being a HC? It's inconsistent to me that you're willing to give Lebeau all of this extra credit for Cowher's success as a HC, but you're not willing to give Lebeau any credit for the success he's having now as a DC for what he might have picked up from Cowher over the years. You give Lebeau all of this credit for helping Cowher, but none to Cowher for helping Lebeau when Cowher always had a strong say so on the defense while he was there.

Sorry, but this just comes off as another reach to discredit Cowher as an attempt to stick up for Kubes because there's been a strong sentiment in here from many people wanting Cowher to replace Kubes. Maybe I'm wrong with your intent, but that's what this thread reeks of. I apologize if my speculation is wrong.
 
Texecutioner said:
Sorry, but you fail to realize that your stats are more of an argument as to why Cowher was a great HC with or without Lebeau than what your purpose of the thread was. This just doesn't come off as an informed article.

Like I said, we could do this all day with any long term winning coach, and that's what makes this thread silly to me. The fact that Cowher had success before and with Lebeau speaks volumes about his abilities before Lebeau was ever there and his abilities to see a DC that was able to really help him to build that franchise and to continue the success he already had. Why aren't you willing to give Cowher credit for "hiring" Lebeau? And do you honestly think that Lebeau didn't learn anything from Cowher who was also a defensive coach prior to being a HC?

Sorry, but this just comes off as another attempt to discredit Cowher as an attempt to stick up for Kubes.
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LoL!!! Stick up for Kubes? I would give my right arm right now to have Cowher here right now over Kubiak. This thread was more about how everybody thinks that Cowher would automatically make a team great from the start without Dickie. The only thing that I was inferring was that I don't think that Cowher can be considered an all time great yet. He is not there yet with the Lombardi's, Walsh's, Parcells and Landry's of the world. I said he might be a tad bit overrated, that is all.

And Cowher came in with LeBeau from day one. He wasn't the Def coordinator but he was the secondary coach for the Steelers for the first three years and then he became the coordinator. I am sure they both learned a lot from each other.
 
Texecutioner said:
Sorry, but you fail to realize that your stats are more of an argument as to why Cowher was a great HC with or without Lebeau than what your purpose of the thread was. This just doesn't come off as an informed article.

Like I said, we could do this all day with any long term winning coach, and that's what makes this thread silly to me. The fact that Cowher had success before and with Lebeau speaks volumes about his abilities before Lebeau was ever there and his abilities to see a DC that was able to really help him to build that franchise and to continue the success he already had. Why aren't you willing to give Cowher credit for "hiring" Lebeau? And do you honestly think that Lebeau didn't learn anything from Cowher who was also a defensive coach prior to being a HC? It's inconsistent to me that you're willing to give Lebeau all of this extra credit for Cowher's success as a HC, but you're n
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Mr teX said:
Uhh, no. i think it shows more that the steelers organization is leaps & bounds better than any organization & they know what the hell they're doing..2 different HC coaches, both 1st timers, both SB winners with great coaching records....both had a retread HC as the DC for a good part of their careers & both were successful with him.
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Exactly... Recipe for success

1. A steady great organazation.
2. A good head coach.
3. A great defensive coordinator.
4. A solid QB.

You will win 12 plus games pretty much every year with these factors.
 
stingray said:
Exactly... Recipe for success

1. A steady great organazation.
2. A good head coach.
3. A great defensive coordinator.
4. A solid QB.

You will win 12 plus games pretty much every year with these factors.
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Cowher had success with several QB's. And he's up there with Parcells for sure. It's not like Parcells did a whole lot more. He just bounced around to different teams and split once things got tougher. It's debatable whether Parcells was successful in Dallas well. Parcells was a great all time HC no doubt though. The same as Cowher though, and Landry didn't even coach in this same type of era with the same type of rules really. Not sure how comparable he really is. And again with Walsh, using your same criteria what other team did Walsh have success with as a HC since you keep asking that about Cowher? Why do you keep ignoring his assistants and great coordinators that he had for so long? There were a lot more on his staff that are huge names than what Cowher has had in Lebeau. Again, Seifert won TWO SB"s after Walsh left with Walsh's team. And when are you going to acknowledge the fact that Walsh had the advantage of having the best football player of all time in Jerry Rice and Joe Montana to work with? This criteria you keep using to somehow discredit Cowher could be used in a lot of ways at just about every HC.
 
Tomlin is going to have to build a team of his own and win with them before he is considered great.
 
gary said:
Tomlin is going to have to build a team of his own and win with them before he is considered great.
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With the steelers organization behind him, i'm sure that won't be a problem. They've consistently drafted pretty good for years...


plus he'll likely still have Rothlisberger...
 
stingray said:
There's a huge diference in Cowher's overall record with and without Dick LeBeau.

With LeBeau, his record as a head coach is 87-41

Without, he is 62-49. Not terrible but nothing special.

And since Cowher left, Mike Tomlin's record is 43-21 with LeBeau as the Def coordinator.

What does it mean? Cowher might just be a tad bit overated. I think LeBeau is the real architect of the Steelers machine.

Ohh and LeBeau also was the def coordinator or the def backs coach for the Bengals in the 80's who went to two super bowls during that time. The Bengals have not even sniffed a super bowl since then.
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Which is why my #1 HC guy was Gruden.

Even though Cowhers yrs without LeBeau is better than Kubiaks.

If you're comparing the two.
 
Mr teX said:
With the steelers organization behind him, i'm sure that won't be a problem. They've consistently drafted pretty good for years...


plus he'll likely still have Rothlisberger...
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I think you're right because they have been a top notch franchise for awhile now and should continue to be.
 
NEWSFLASH: Hiring a good co-ordinator is important and helps win games.

In other news, the sky is blue.

Maybe if Gary hired a good co-ordinator for his defense, we wouldn't be calling him as the suckass coach he is. When you hire 3rd rate scrubs who are unproven and incompetent, you should be fired. He did this by hiring Richard Smith and Frank Bush, who he believes in.

Whatever, Cowher is a damn good coach and one of the most important jobs of the HC is to hire good coaches. So even though you want to pile on Cowher and call him overrated, your argument only re-inforces what a good HC Cowher is. So keep trying to rationalize why they didn't hire Cowher and why they continue to roll with loser Kubiak, while the sane people around here just realize that the Texans are a joke and will continue to be one until they fire Kubiak the crap coach.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
NEWSFLASH: Hiring a good co-ordinator is important and helps win games.

In other news, the sky is blue.

Maybe if Gary hired a good co-ordinator for his defense, we wouldn't be calling him as the suckass coach he is. When you hire 3rd rate scrubs who are unproven and incompetent, you should be fired. He did this by hiring Richard Smith and Frank Bush, who he believes in.

Whatever, Cowher is a damn good coach and one of the most important jobs of the HC is to hire good coaches. So even though you want to pile on Cowher and call him overrated, your argument only re-inforces what a good HC Cowher is. So keep trying to rationalize why they didn't hire Cowher and why they continue to roll with loser Kubiak, while the sane people around here just realize that the Texans are a joke and will continue to be one until they fire Kubiak the crap coach.
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I never mentioned Kubiak in my original post. It seems that you and other posters seem to think that just because somebody thinks that Cowher is not yet a Hall of Fame coach, then they all of sudden like or love Kubiak. I put this thread in the National Football League section and therefore was a National Football League discussion. But obviously, you seem to need to always mention Kubiak for some reason when this and other threads had nothing to do with Kubiak. Maybe you need to go to the "recipe" thread and give us your awesome Enchilada "Gary Kubiak is a loser" recipe.
 
stingray said:
Exactly... Recipe for success

1. A steady great organazation.
2. A good head coach.
3. A great defensive coordinator.
4. A solid QB.

You will win 12 plus games pretty much every year with these factors.
Click to expand...

Careful, with that logic you might convince McNair to keep Kubes if we fail to win 10 games this year.
 
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