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Does anyone actually want Kubiak to stay?

kiwitexansfan

Hall of Fame
I for one would like to see him stay if he brings in a new proven DC.

I am the only one?

And no I am not going to argue against the whole board as to why.
 

Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I wanted him to stay until the last two weeks. I do think he will go on to be a successful HC somewhere but he needs to be fired once first. Yeah, I know that sounds funny, and maybe ignorant but its like a teenager learning that his friends will get him in trouble... it usually takes getting burned pretty badly before it sinks in.

The only way I'd see him stay is if a DC is brought in with a title like Assistant HC or something but I think we're beyond that point. I didn't see the game yesterday (traveling... I know... first game I've missed that I was actually able to view in history... shame on me) but to me the team looks like they've quit on him. That is pretty much the end of the line if you ask me.

Mike
 

FirstTexansFan

The Unknown Fan
I appreciate both you guys standing up for what you believe is good for the team, but I believe he's had his chance, the blame lies squarely at his feet, and he needs to go. Will I abandon this team if they don't let him go? I doubt it, I'm inherently a masochist :)
 

ChampionTexan

Hall of Fame
I for one would like to see him stay if he brings in a new proven DC.

I am the only one?

And no I am not going to argue against the whole board as to why.
I won't argue either, I'll just say that assuming Kubiak stays - it's going to be extremely difficult to attract a "proven" DC.
 

Hookem Horns

Texans Talk Bartender
Staff member
At this point I don't think Kubiak even wants to stay. If Bob does not make a move this team will be a bigger joke than it is now. There are teams firing their coaches right now with less reasons.
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
I am not passionate about Kubiak, just as I am not as passionate about the Texans I once was. I really do not care if he stays, but if he does I want a new GM, DC and ST coach.
 

markn

All Pro
On balance, I think he's had enough time and needs to go, but I do feel that his potential is unfulfilled.

If I could be certain that he'd hire an experienced DC as opposed to one of his buddies from Denver, I'd have a modicum of interest in keeping him. But to be honest, he's already failed that test.

I still have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that he's going to be successful if we get rid of him.
 

Pantherstang84

@rolisrgti06
At this point I don't think Kubiak even wants to stay. If Bob does not make a move this team will be a bigger joke than it is now. There are teams firing their coaches right now with less reasons.
I picked up on that vibe yesterday from the tone of his voice during the press interviews.
 

Maddict5

Hall of Fame
I still have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that he's going to be successful if we get rid of him.
agreed on that. there is quite a bit of potential greatness on this team if they could ever put it together... and although kubiak rightfully gets blame for not doing it, i think a significant part of that is to do with the 'other' players we have not doing their jobs
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I do but hes not doing a good job on keeping a case for him to stay

i mean two 4 game losing streaks ouch

5-11 ouch !!!!!!!!!!

I wanted him to stay but wasent these last 4 games a test for him well hes falling that so far
 

Ranger Tom

All Pro
I don't think you'll find anyone on here who enjoyed the fifth annual mid-season, four-game losing streak, let alone anyone who looks forward to the sixth.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
I'm kind of like KT - I won't be hopping mad if a new coach is brought in and I won't be hopping made if Kubiak stays with caveats on both. I am not in the anybody but Kubiak club. I really dislike Gruden and don't see Fox as an improvement as HC. If they could land Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Harbaugh then that's fine. If Kubiak stays at a minimum Bush and Gibbs need to leave and I would prefer a new GM as well. I am most interested in seeing a proven DC brought in either way.
 

Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I'm kind of like KT - I won't be hopping mad if a new coach is brought in and I won't be hopping made if Kubiak stays with caveats on both. I am not in the anybody but Kubiak club. I really dislike Gruden and don't see Fox as an improvement as HC. If they could land Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Harbaugh then that's fine. If Kubiak stays at a minimum Bush and Gibbs need to leave and I would prefer a new GM as well. I am most interested in seeing a proven DC brought in either way.

Cak, for the first time in history, you voiced my opinion exactly.

Mike
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
I won't argue either, I'll just say that assuming Kubiak stays - it's going to be extremely difficult to attract a "proven" DC.
Really. It's just so laughable to me that a decent GM and/or DC would come here to work with Kubiak. There's the Grand Canyon hole in the Keep Kubiak clubs's logic.
 

Maddict5

Hall of Fame
Really. It's just so laughable to me that a decent GM and/or DC would come here to work with Kubiak. There's the Grand Canyon hole in the Keep Kubiak clubs's logic.
why? happened with the saints and others

if mcnair tells kubiak he has to get a proven DC, i think kubiak will do that. hell he might even want to himself after watching the last few weeks
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Really. It's just so laughable to me that a decent GM and/or DC would come here to work with Kubiak. There's the Grand Canyon hole in the Keep Kubiak clubs's logic.
I don't think it is laughable at all. John Fox is going to be looking for a DC position most likely. Manusky in San Fran might not be retained by a new HC. Quite the opposite I don't think Kubiak exerts much control on the D and that would be a positive for a prospective DC. But it is all speculation either way.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
I don't think it is laughable at all.
What DC will want to take a job where the head coach is on a flaming hot seat? Where's the job security? John Fox will field better, more secure offers. Coordinators want to go to winning teams. The success of these teams make owners believe that it's due in some part to the coordinator. The Texans under Gary Kubiak cannot be considered a winning team.

Furthermore, what GM will want to inherit Kubiak as head coach? Someone desperate for any job, ala a Casserly, who will tell McNair anything he wants to hear. In other words, another failure.
 

ChampionTexan

Hall of Fame
I don't think it is laughable at all. John Fox is going to be looking for a DC position most likely. Manusky in San Fran might not be retained by a new HC. Quite the opposite I don't think Kubiak exerts much control on the D and that would be a positive for a prospective DC. But it is all speculation either way.
I just believe that given the tenuous ground that Kubiak would be on if he were retained for 2011, anybody having options would place the Texans at or near the bottom of the list. Don't know what teams will be looking for a new DC, but I believe most "new regimes" as well as most situations where the former DC has been successful enough to get a HC gig would be preferable to taking over a historically bad defense on a team who's entire coaching staff and front office may be on short leashes.
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
For some perspective.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3217121&sportCat=nfl

What if.

What if Belichick had answered his phone on Valentine's Day 1996, and it was Modell calling not to fire him as Cleveland Browns head coach, but to invite him to join the franchise in its new home in Baltimore?

What if Modell had stood by his vow of Nov. 8, 1995, when he said, "Bill Belichick will be my head coach in 1996''?

What if Belichick's team hadn't lost six of its last seven games after that vow, or hadn't finished the season 5-11 after being picked by some experts to reach the Super Bowl? So much of who and what Belichick is today as head coach of the fabulously successful New England Patriots can be traced to who and what he was as head coach of the mostly unsuccessful Browns. There are such stark differences between the two tenures, and yet Belichick remains essentially the same person, just not entirely the same coach."The Browns were his training camp, his boot camp for success,'' said Mary Kay Cabot, the beat reporter who covered Belichick and the Browns for the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
"There were mistakes he made here on players, personnel, staff, public relations. But he's the master of adjustments. He learned how to do it right by everything he did wrong here.''Nearly 12 years ago, when Modell took only a few minutes to fire Belichick over the phone, the decision was hailed as necessary and inevitable. An Akron columnist pithily wrote, "Bill Belichick's five-year reign of error is over.''
What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?

Not saying it's gonna happen ... but if it does, there will be big boatload of people who wanted Kubiak to be fired today, that will come back and invent revisionist history and say they wanted him to stay.

I dunno . . I just have this gut feeling that we haven't heard the end of Gary Kubiak, the "mediocre coach".

And yeah . . . to echo someone else, I think even he wants to leave now, and has probably even told McNair that.
 

Hookem Horns

Texans Talk Bartender
Staff member
Why in the world would anyone want this guy to stay? I thought he was a good OC however I am changing my mind about that. His offenses put up stats however fold when it counts.

The dude is also horrible at playcalling. He tries to get to cute and "outsmart" his opponents when he should be doing something else more obvious like running the ball against the Colts in that 2nd game for example.

The bottom line is the guy isn't providing a winning atmosphere/culture around here and no DC is going to change that. If you are going to hire John Fox make him the HC. Why waste a season having him wait for Kubiak to get fired?
 

Hookem Horns

Texans Talk Bartender
Staff member
What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?
If he goes to another team, cheats and wins then good for him. For the record, Belichick won a playoff game in Cleveland. So it wasn't like he was a total failure like Kubiak has been here.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
What if Belichick had answered his phone on Valentine's Day 1996, and it was Modell calling not to fire him as Cleveland Browns head coach, but to invite him to join the franchise in its new home in Baltimore?
The Browns (as the Ravens) won Super Bowl XXXV a year prior to the Belichick-led Pats winning Super Bowl XXXVI. I don't see your point, unless it's to say that building a strong personnel department, as the Ravens have had under Ozzie Newsome, and the Pats have enjoyed under Belichick/Pioli, is the key.

Actually, I don't think Kubiak and Smith have done a horrible job of selecting talent. Which is why the Texans coaching vacancy will be such a hot commodity. Kubiak just doesn't know how to be a head coach. Why some believe that knowledge will magically appear is beyond me.
 

Maddict5

Hall of Fame
What DC will want to take a job where the head coach is on a flaming hot seat? Where's the job security? John Fox will field better, more secure offers. Coordinators want to go to winning teams. The success of these teams make owners believe that it's due in some part to the coordinator. The Texans under Gary Kubiak cannot be considered a winning team.

Furthermore, what GM will want to inherit Kubiak as head coach? Someone desperate for any job, ala a Casserly, who will tell McNair anything he wants to hear. In other words, another failure.
why wouldnt a DC with HC aspirations take the job (eg fox)?

if kubiak does get fired, who always gets first dibs on the interim role, especially if they are former HC's?

if the team does really well due to the defence playing good ball and goes from 5-11 to 11-5, doesnt that new co-ordinator who got all the talented parts to finally play well as a unit automatically become the hottest prospective HC hire for every team looking for a HC?
 

DerekLee1

Veteran
That kind of makes my point. Fox might be okay, but I think the chances of getting him are very small. The rest of the guys are no better than what we have now.
Disagree. They've proven they can coach the hell out of a defense. Let 'em take over and pull a Gruden: that is, taking over a team built by a better talent evaluator and winning a SB with it.
 

gary

Hall of Fame
It is a different story but the same ending every year. Enough is enough. I am done with the whole staff.
 

ChampionTexan

Hall of Fame
Disagree. They've proven they can coach the hell out of a defense. Let 'em take over and pull a Gruden: that is, taking over a team built by a better talent evaluator and winning a SB with it.
So you're saying that if we were to go ahead and hire Wade Phillips, Marvin Lewis or Jerry Gray to replace Kubiak and skip the DC step - you'd be excited about that?
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
why wouldnt a DC with HC aspirations take the job (eg fox)?
So the new DC comes in angling for Kubiak's job? That's gotta be good for team chemistry.

Why are so many bending over backwards to keep Kubiak? There's no scenario in retaining Kubiak that makes sense.
 

Maddict5

Hall of Fame
So the new DC comes in angling for Kubiak's job? That's gotta be good for team chemistry.

Why are so many bending over backwards to keep Kubiak? There's no scenario in retaining Kubiak that makes sense.
it makes sense to keep this offence in place.

the new dc comes in knowing theres talent on this D and if they get the unit playing well, they'll be back in every conversation for a HC gig... either here or elsewhere
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
The Browns (as the Ravens) won Super Bowl XXXV a year prior to the Belichick-led Pats winning Super Bowl XXXVI. I don't see your point, unless it's to say that building a strong personnel department, as the Ravens have had under Ozzie Newsome, and the Pats have enjoyed under Belichick/Pioli, is the key.

Actually, I don't think Kubiak and Smith have done a horrible job of selecting talent. Which is why the Texans coaching vacancy will be such a hot commodity. Kubiak just doesn't know how to be a head coach. Why some believe that knowledge will magically appear is beyond me.
What does magic have to do with it?

"He learned how to do it right by everything he did wrong here."
 

Mr. White

Retired OLine Coach
Seems like the people that want him to stay want a new GM and a new DC.

Does anyone actually think Kubiak would want to stay if he doesn't have any control over personnel and doesn't have any say over the defense?
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
Seems like the people that want him to stay want a new GM and a new DC.

Does anyone actually think Kubiak would want to stay if he doesn't have any control over personnel and doesn't have any say over the defense?
Nope, but that gets his team mobilized to have trade talks with the Broncos. I would hold on to Kubiak, with a reassignment, should he not want to play ball.

My gut says McNair rolls over softly by allowing him to go, and gets nothing for Kubiak.
 

Hookem Horns

Texans Talk Bartender
Staff member
Seems like the people that want him to stay want a new GM and a new DC.
:kubepalm:

Just look at it this way. We will be able to bump these threads a couple of seasons from now and make fun of them like we have done with the Carr and Capers threads.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I didn't see the game yesterday (traveling... I know... first game I've missed that I was actually able to view in history... shame on me) but to me the team looks like they've quit on him. That is pretty much the end of the line if you ask me.

Mike
I definitely don't get the feeling that the team quit on him. Not at all.

I don't want Kubiak to stay.

What I want is for him to learn his lesson. Last year, the guys played their butts off, & we lost almost every game by one play..... we had lots of mistakes & goof ups that we had to over come, but we were still less than 6 points from winning all but the Jets game, & that was because we played hard & aggressive every down.

This year, we're several plays away from winning several games. We goof up & can't dig ourselves out of holes we dug early.

IMHO, last years team just needed to get better at making plays. Instead, he took that team & castrated them. Had them play conservative, where every mistake is magnified.

Yesterday's game was the epitome of it all. We came out conservative, put the throttle on the floor in the second Qtr, then went conservative the rest of the way.... Then with 3 minutes to go.... we start airing the ball out.... actually the possession before that. 10 minutes left in the game. We're up by 6, 5 passes, 2 runs. 3 incomplete passes, one check down, not one screen, not one draw........

But he's been doing the same thing for 5 years.. not knowing when to slow a game down.... not knowing when to speed it up.....

Denver's defense is/was worse than ours.

If he's going to learn his lesson, he'd have learned it by now.
 
I wanted him to stay until the last two weeks. I do think he will go on to be a successful HC somewhere but he needs to be fired once first. Yeah, I know that sounds funny, and maybe ignorant but its like a teenager learning that his friends will get him in trouble... it usually takes getting burned pretty badly before it sinks in.

The only way I'd see him stay is if a DC is brought in with a title like Assistant HC or something but I think we're beyond that point. I didn't see the game yesterday (traveling... I know... first game I've missed that I was actually able to view in history... shame on me) but to me the team looks like they've quit on him. That is pretty much the end of the line if you ask me.

Mike
That is exactly how I feel! Thanks for saving me the trouble - great post :)
 
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