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Is our defense full of scrubs?

R

Rey

Guest
I was listening to the radio today, and they were making the point that hardly anyone on our defense would go to most other NFL teams and be a starter.

They said our defense was full of scrubs.

My first reaction was that they were crazy. We have talent, right?

But after thinking about it for a while...I cannot say that I totally disagree with them.

They went through the starters and as they called them off I felt completely underwhelmed.

Then they started talking about depth and I wanted to spit.

Now I'm a bit confused on where to direct my anger over the defenses ineptitude. Is Frank Bush a bigger problem than the people in charge of getting him good players?

Is Kubiak more at fault for hiring the position coaches and having so many players regress or not get better? Could our defenders play better in a better scheme?

Is our defense full of scrubs and is this really mostly on Bush?

Personally, I'm a little tiny bit less upset with Bush. I think there are several reasons for our defensive woes and I think he is just a malfunctioning cog in this whole mess. The defense is not loaded with talent, but I don't think he calls the best plays either.
 
Part of how good a player is is how well they are taught to play. Considering that all our defensive players get worse AS PLAYERS the longer they are here, I'd say we have talented players that are literally being de-coached into bad players.

And that's to say nothing about the scheme that sets them up to fail.
 
wagonhed said:
Part of how good a player is is how well they are taught to play. Considering that all our defensive players get worse AS PLAYERS the longer they are here, I'd say we have talented players that are literally being de-coached into bad players.

And that's to say nothing about the scheme that sets them up to fail.
Click to expand...

The bolded part is a theory that I personally subscribe very heavily to.
 
No, Scrubs was funny to watch. This is just embarrasing.

watch-Scrubs-online.jpg
 
Rey said:
I was listening to the radio today, and they were making the point that hardly anyone on our defense would go to most other NFL teams and be a starter.

They said our defense was full of scrubs.

My first reaction was that they were crazy. We have talent, right?

But after thinking about it for a while...I cannot say that I totally disagree with them.

They went through the starters and as they called them off I felt completely underwhelmed.

Then they started talking about depth and I wanted to spit.

Now I'm a bit confused on where to direct my anger over the defenses ineptitude. Is Frank Bush a bigger problem than the people in charge of getting him good players?

Is Kubiak more at fault for hiring the position coaches and having so many players regress or not get better? Could our defenders play better in a better scheme?

Is our defense full of scrubs and is this really mostly on Bush?

Personally, I'm a little tiny bit less upset with Bush. I think there are several reasons for our defensive woes and I think he is just a malfunctioning cog in this whole mess. The defense is not loaded with talent, but I don't think he calls the best plays either.
Click to expand...

I think it's easy as a fan to say "Wow we have so many great players!" just because we saw where they were drafted, and so we get overconfident. However I think there is real talent on this team.

Look at the Jets, all I can name is Revis and Cromartie and Jenkins, I don't know one other player. They are coached well, and have personell that fit the scheme. Our team seems like an uncoached hodge podge. The Cover 2 has a weakness that our personell can't overcome. We need a new DC that can figure out to use what we have, and build from there IMHO.
 
We probably have 2-3 defensive players that successful teams would want right now, and that says it all.

We could blame the suckiness on the players, after all, they do play the game. But who picked those players? And why are the same players getting worse? All signs point to coaches with those questions.
 
Go down the list and see for yourself:

Starters:
Mario- Superstar talent, scrub effort
Okoye- Joke. A bad one at that. Scrub deluxe.
Cody- Journeyman scrub.
Smith- don't know what to say other than not a scrub. not the best but not a scrub.
Cushing- well....he's playing like a scrub but i won't label him that just yet
Ryans- not a scrub even on one leg
Diles- getting scrubbier all the time
Jackson- scrub with upward potential
Wilson- total scrub
Pollard- scrub in coverage
Quin- best scrub on the team
 
Williams, Smith, Cush, Meco...are stars/pro-bowlers/solid starters

Jackson and Quin COULD be good starters...with no PR they look like they have little to no potential...

Our safeties are good for hard hits, but that's it. You might think I meant tackling, but I'm not. Their techniques are pretty bad when it comes to simple tackling.

Okoye could (emphasis on could, folks) be a big time DT if there was a space eater taking heat off him.

Cody is...ehh.
 
ThaShark316 said:
Williams, Smith, Cush, Meco...are stars/pro-bowlers/solid starters

Jackson and Quin COULD be good starters...with no PR they look like they have little to no potential...

Our safeties are good for hard hits, but that's it. You might think I meant tackling, but I'm not. Their techniques are pretty bad when it comes to simple tackling.

Okoye could (emphasis on could, folks) be a big time DT if there was a space eater taking heat off him.

Cody is...ehh.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it it'll come to me later, but I'm drawing a blank...What is PR?
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Williams, Smith, Ryans, Cushing (maybe)

There, we have 4 NFL quality starters.
Click to expand...

And without Ryans, we have 2 or 3?

And Honestly folks, Demeco isn't a big time play maker...Solid guy, good at leading the team...But he doesn't pop off the screen like he used to.

I'm still torn....I can't decide if it's completely on the coaches or if we should have been able to get some better players in here by now.
 
Rey said:
And without Ryans, we have 2 or 3?

And Honestly folks, Demeco isn't a big time play maker...Solid guy, good at leading the team...But he doesn't pop off the screen like he used to.

I'm still torn....I can't decide if it's completely on the coaches or if we should have been able to get some better players in here by now.
Click to expand...

Can anybody name 4 quality starters on each team in the NFL?
Colts D?
Tacks D?
Jags D?
Jets D?

Quickly!
 
We are never going to have a defense full of pro-bowlers. No team will have that. It is all about getting the best out of what you have, and playing to their strengths. There are lots of areas for our defense to improve, but think about what a difference having a quality CB would do for us. It would push everybody down the depth chart one spot and improve the D a whole lot. We don't need an over hall, just some adjustments.
 
76Texan said:
Can anybody name 4 quality starters on each team in the NFL?
Colts D?
Tacks D?
Jags D?
Jets D?

Quickly!
Click to expand...

Colts - Freeny, Mathis, Bethea, Bullet, Sessions..
Tacks - Babbin, Finnegan (Gag), Verner (The rookie), Tulloch, Hope/Griffin..
Jags - Uh. Theres a reason why they compete with us on the worse D in the league..
Jets - Scott, Cromartie, Revis, Rex Ryan..Hell, I dont know on here..Jenkins when healthy,
 
Double Barrel said:
We probably have 2-3 defensive players that successful teams would want right now, and that says it all.

We could blame the suckiness on the players, after all, they do play the game. But who picked those players? And why are the same players getting worse? All signs point to coaches with those questions.
Click to expand...

I would say we have 2-3 players that teams covet, but I would say that there are a lot of teams that sign almost anyone of our starters. Not saying they'd all be starters, but they would all probably end up on a team. Except for Wilson, of course he did have one good game this year.....
 
Section516 said:
Colts - Freeny, Mathis, Bethea, Bullet, Sessions..
Tacks - Babbin, Finnegan (Gag), Verner (The rookie), Tulloch, Hope/Griffin..
Jags - Uh. Theres a reason why they compete with us on the worse D in the league..
Jets - Scott, Cromartie, Revis, Rex Ryan..Hell, I dont know on here..Jenkins when healthy,
Click to expand...

Good try, but see, it's not that easy!
 
76Texan said:
Can anybody name 4 quality starters on each team in the NFL?
Colts D?
Tacks D?
Jags D?
Jets D?

Quickly!
Click to expand...

Yes, I can very easily.

Is this a serious question?

Colts, Tacks, and Jets easily have more quality defensive players than we do. I don't even know how that is even a real point of debate.
 
All teams have fill-in players. It is the nature of a salary cap league that you can't keep a team of stars for very long.

That's why you get a quality coordinator who has a proven system that can take stars and surround them with pieces that can help them be successful--doesn't mean more young defensive players.

The Texans don't have a ton of superstars on offense. But the people they have fit what they do. They've drafted for that need, and they pick up vet players to fit spots.

I've been trying to figure out what defense the Texans are trying to emulate philosophically for a while. Think of the successful 4-3s that are out there--which one are the Texans trying to build themselves into?

I can't think of a successful defense that was built on the all young player/unproven D coordinator model.
 
Rey said:
Yes, I can very easily.

Is this a serious question?

Colts, Tacks, and Jets easily have more quality defensive players than we do. I don't even know how that is even a real point of debate.
Click to expand...

No you can't easily. Somebody is identifying Texans and Eagles reject Babin up thread in an attempt to do so. 76's point is valid. Teams generally aren't stacked. If you send 3 people to the pro-bowl from your defense you have good talent. It isn't being used properly.

Oh and DeMeco is that good. He's a throwback form technique wrap up guy who makes plays sideline to sideline. It isn't flashy but he's great.
 
infantrycak said:
No you can't easily. Somebody is identifying Texans and Eagles reject Babin up thread in an attempt to do so. 76's point is valid. Teams generally aren't stacked. If you send 3 people to the pro-bowl from your defense you have good talent. It isn't being used properly.

Oh and DeMeco is that good. He's a throwback form technique wrap up guy who makes plays sideline to sideline. It isn't flashy but he's great.
Click to expand...

Sorry Icak...I already named 4 "quality NFL starters" from those teams a page back...

And I did it rather easily.

No one is saying that the team should be stacked...That is you guys twisting stuff around...

All I'm saying is that the defense shouldn't have so many scrubs...

Serviceable players would be a step up from a lot of the junk we have out there

And I didn't say anything about Demeco in here. But while we're at it, I think he has lost a step since his rookie season. I think he needs to slim down a little so he can use his strengths again. Demeco isn't flashy, but I don't know how effective he is either. He is a solid player who brings great leadership and knowledge, but as far as his on the field play lately it hasn't been all it's cracked up to be.
 
Rey said:
Sorry Icak...I already named 4 "quality NFL starters" from those teams a page back...

And I did it rather easily.

No one is saying that the team should be stacked...That is you guys twisting stuff around...

All I'm saying is that the defense shouldn't have so many scrubs...

Serviceable players would be a step up from a lot of the junk we have out there
Click to expand...

Nevermind...

I see that what I posted yesterday was erased due to the server issues...Will not post it again, but yes...I named about 6 "quality NFL starters" from those teams while it is hard to find 4 for the Texans.

But I don't know what you are thinking about. It is not hard at all to name four quality NFL starters on defense for the Colts, Titans, and Jets....
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Williams, Smith, Ryans, Cushing (maybe)

There, we have 4 NFL quality starters.
Click to expand...

They might be starters on some of the teams.
This shows this staff is not able to evaluate talent or they cannot coach up players. Their schemes may make OK players look like SCRUBS.
 
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