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Team Gruden

wagonhed

wagonhed

Team Gruden
yeah, I went there, I made a thread.


discuss why Jon Gruden is the best choice for the Texans in 2011!

:doot:
 
I think anybody would be better than Kubiak right now but my first choice wouldn't be Gruden. Our offense is pretty solid. We need someone who knows what to do on the defensive side of the ball. Cowher or Brian Billick are my top choices.
 
HardKnockTexan said:
I think anybody would be better than Kubiak right now but my first choice wouldn't be Gruden. Our offense is pretty solid. We need someone who knows what to do on the defensive side of the ball. Cowher or Brian Billick are my top choices.
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Billick is an offensive guy that inherited an all-time defense with the Ravens.
 
UGH. Dungy? No thanks. I couldn't stand to watch him on our sidelines. No way no how. Only HC I hate more than Cowher, and I could get used to Cowher.

Besides, what has Dungy done besides be the beneficiary of the best QB of all time and a top 3 franchise?
 
Jackie Chiles said:
Billick is an offensive guy that inherited an all-time defense with the Ravens.
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Yeah. And some of Billick's offenses in Baltimore were offensive.

Dilfer, Boller, Kordell Stewart? Eek. I'll pass.

And Chucky's last year or two in Tampa were kinda sketchy, too. Seems that I remember lots of QB changes, etc.

Now, if we could get Gruden and Monte Kiffin that would be fine but I know that aint' happening.

At this point, I don't care. Just make a change, Bob..... To quote BR5-49 "Sometimes I gotta do something, even if its wrong."

Make a change Bob.
 
wagonhed said:
UGH. Dungy? No thanks. I couldn't stand to watch him on our sidelines. No way no how. Only HC I hate more than Cowher, and I could get used to Cowher.

Besides, what has Dungy done besides be the beneficiary of the best QB of all time and a top 3 franchise?
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He built the Buccaneers team that Gruden won a super bowl with. After that, he was a big part of making the Colts who they are. I'm not a big Dungy fan but there's not arguing that the man knows how to build a team.
 
HardKnockTexan said:
He built the Buccaneers team that Gruden won a super bowl with. After that, he was a big part of making the Colts who they are. I'm not a big Dungy fan but there's not arguing that the man knows how to build a team.
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Sounds like something we might be saying about Kubiak in a few years. Building a team doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot to Texans fans right now, considering our situation.
 
wagonhed said:
Sounds like something we might be saying about Kubiak in a few years. Building a team doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot to Texans fans right now, considering our situation.
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Kubiak and Smith have FAILED in making this franchise a winner. If Dungy can come in and put the right guys in the right places (from coordinators to players) then he's exactly what this team needs. He did get Manning which makes any team better but he also hired the guys that knew how to get the most out of Manning.
 
wagonhed said:
yeah, I went there, I made a thread.


discuss why Jon Gruden is the best choice for the Texans in 2011!

:doot:
Click to expand...

I don't think he's a bad choice at all. He's a "missing ingredient" kind of coach much like they were saying on ESPN earlier Sunday about a Gruden to the Cowboys scenario. He can take a team with talent and add his energy and motivational ability and get them going pretty fast. He's maybe not so much the long-term builder if you want that kind of guy.

It's a hire I would not pan immediately. I'd consider it worth a try. If you look at us and believe that the problem is the coach and his staff then you're saying we have talent and we're being held back by the quality of our coaching. If you're right in that assumption then Gruden should make a positive difference right away.
 
Hervoyel said:
I don't think he's a bad choice at all. He's a "missing ingredient" kind of coach much like they were saying on ESPN earlier Sunday about a Gruden to the Cowboys scenario. He can take a team with talent and add his energy and motivational ability and get them going pretty fast. He's maybe not so much the long-term builder if you want that kind of guy.

It's a hire I would not pan immediately. I'd consider it worth a try. If you look at us and believe that the problem is the coach and his staff then you're saying we have talent and we're being held back by the quality of our coaching. If you're right in that assumption then Gruden should make a positive difference right away.
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I've never seen anything with Gruden that has impressed me. He inherited a franchise that was in good shape, and within a short time left it in shambles. For being an offensive genius, he never did anything of merit without Gannon and Rice/Brown as a head coach, much the same with Billick.

For what it's worth Dungy repeatedly keeps saying that he is not interested in returning to coaching, so I don't think he's even a possibility.
 
Gruden is not my first choice. I'd be happier to see him here than what we currently have, but I have my reservations about Gruden. He built a great team in Oakland while working for a control freak owner. On the other hand, he collected QBs like trading cards in TB, which tells me he can't coach QBs worth a damn. On the other hand, the last couple years with the Bucs, he had very little developed talent and still went 8-8, which I thought was a pretty good coaching job.

So I'm torn on Gruden. Cowher is my first choice. I know one thing, and that is whoever succeeds Kubiak needs to come from a background of winning as a head coach. And he needs to have some attitude, IMO. I'm not saying that's a must for all situations, but I think this team, at this point, needs a boot in the ass more than most teams.
 
nero THE zero said:
Tangibles:
176-95
1 SB Championship
5 Division Championships

Intangibles:
Good offensive mind
Tough, no-nonsense coach
Young
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As a Raiders and Bucs fan, I can tell you Grudens a much better coach than some here think. I've watched every game he coached for the Raiders and Bucs. For those that say he took "Dungys" team to a super bowl, let's not forget who they beat in that super bowl, the team he built in Oak. He also took Oak to another Afc championship, and lost a divisional game to the Pats because of the stupid tuck rule, horrible rule btw!

His last few years in Tampa his teams suffered a significant amount of injuries to key players.

You may not like him for whatever reason but he's a good coach. For those that say what has he benefitted from having great players, Freaking Brad Johnson was his QB for his superbowl team and Gannon improved greatly under Gruden. Besides what most great coaches have great players
 
I'm on Team Gruden because I think we have the talent to win (maybe excluding the secondary). Gruden is the kind of coach who can over 5-6 seasons get people to produce before his act wears thin and the team turns on him.

I would happily buy into 5-6 years of good production after the years of mediocrity.

Traditionally I have been a fan of stability, but I genuinely think Kubiak does not have what it takes to be a Head Coach. I see it as a failure in the interview process by the Texans to identify this.

If Kubiak would like to stay on as the OC I would gladly do that, but we really need a 'real' Head Coach.
 
otisbean said:
As a Raiders and Bucs fan, I can tell you Grudens a much better coach than some here think. I've watched every game he coached for the Raiders and Bucs. For those that say he took "Dungys" team to a super bowl, let's not forget who they beat in that super bowl, the team he built in Oak. He also took Oak to another Afc championship, and lost a divisional game to the Pats because of the stupid tuck rule, horrible rule btw!

His last few years in Tampa his teams suffered a significant amount of injuries to key players.

You may not like him for whatever reason but he's a good coach. For those that say what has he benefitted from having great players, Freaking Brad Johnson was his QB for his superbowl team and Gannon improved greatly under Gruden. Besides what most great coaches have great players
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Gruden's first job as an offensive coordinator was in Philadelphia under Ray Rhodes who currently lurks around the Texans organization as a... well I don't know exactly what it is he does here. I know he doesn't do anything too stressful but if he's got anybody's ear here when it comes time to look for a coach, well I imagine he'll be a Gruden advocate.

Grudens Bucs teams also got old. It happens and rebuilding is part of the business. People forget that the deal that put Gruden in Tampa Bay also sent a bunch of their draft picks to the Raiders. 1's in 2002 and 2003 plus 2's in 2002 and 2004. Hard to rebuild an aging team with few premier draft picks.
 
There's something about Gruden I don't like, don't know quite what it is, but I don't like him. However, if you forced me to choose between Kubiak and Gruden I'd take Gruden for no other reason than it's a change.
 
Gruden got a Superbowl ring with a team Tony Dungee BUILT. He's a younger version of Barry Switzer. How many play off games did he win AFTER he tok Dungee's team to a superbowl? So unless you plan on getting either Jimmy Johnson OR Tony Dungee in here to build a team for him to take credit for let Chucky stay on ESPN where he belongs.
 
Dread-Head said:
Gruden got a Superbowl ring with a team Tony Dungee BUILT. He's a younger version of Barry Switzer. How many play off games did he win AFTER he tok Dungee's team to a superbowl? So unless you plan on getting either Jimmy Johnson OR Tony Dungee in here to build a team for him to take credit for let Chucky stay on ESPN where he belongs.
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First off, I'd be OK with Chucky taking a team that Kubiak built to the SB. Second, you're forgetting the Raiders in your blase dismissal of Gruden. Who's to say that Dungy could have coached the team he built to a win over the team Gruden built?
 
Dread-Head said:
Gruden got a Superbowl ring with a team Tony Dungee BUILT. He's a younger version of Barry Switzer. How many play off games did he win AFTER he tok Dungee's team to a superbowl? So unless you plan on getting either Jimmy Johnson OR Tony Dungee in here to build a team for him to take credit for let Chucky stay on ESPN where he belongs.
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If that's true, then how do you explain his success in Oakland?
 
Seems like the majority of people's problems with Gruden are personal. Remember what happened the last time we hired a HC who was so likable, noone didn't like him?
 
Gruden: "I probably will coach again"

“I love this game very much,” Gruden said. “This job gives me the opportunity to see the game at a different angle, and I’ll be honest - I just fell in love with it. I want to get good at it. I really like the team I’m on at ESPN. They’re really trying to help me be good.”
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Granted, this was written in 2009, but this doesn't sound like a guy who wants to coach again any time soon. I think he wants to be John Madden.
 
Also someone help me understand this, please.

As Texans fans, we want a Superbowl. Right? So the argument is, we don't want Gruden, because he won a Superbowl with a team he didn't build. And, um, we don't want to win with the team we already have in place... we want to rebuild again? Is that it? You all would rather have a coach good at building teams but not necessarily winning over a coach who can win and win big with talented teams? How does that make sense?
 
wagonhed said:
Also someone help me understand this, please.

As Texans fans, we want a Superbowl. Right? So the argument is, we don't want Gruden, because he won a Superbowl with a team he didn't build. And, um, we don't want to win with the team we already have in place... we want to rebuild again? Is that it? You all would rather have a coach good at building teams but not necessarily winning over a coach who can win and win big with talented teams? How does that make sense?
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Because it's impossible to please everybody. People will ***** no matter who they hire. And I do agree with with you. Gruden makes sense here. This team got talent, just needs someone who is strong willed and takes no crap.
 
wagonhed said:
Also someone help me understand this, please.

As Texans fans, we want a Superbowl. Right? So the argument is, we don't want Gruden, because he won a Superbowl with a team he didn't build. And, um, we don't want to win with the team we already have in place... we want to rebuild again? Is that it? You all would rather have a coach good at building teams but not necessarily winning over a coach who can win and win big with talented teams? How does that make sense?
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That arguement comes fromt he fact that Dungy took the Bucs to the playoffs 4 of the 5 years preceeding Gruden showing up. Quite different from the Texans current situation.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
That arguement comes fromt he fact that Dungy took the Bucs to the playoffs 4 of the 5 years preceeding Gruden showing up. Quite different from the Texans current situation.
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That's assuming the reason the Texans aren't going to the playoffs is because of the players and not the coach.
 
I'm a proud member of Team Gruden (as you can tell by my avatar). Anyways, here are my reasons for hiring him:

A.) He can light a fire in players asses (both literally and figuratively)

B.) He understands the game well from an offensive standpoint and given Matt Schaub, Andre Johnson, Arian Foster, and Co. we can only get better with Gruden.

C.) He understands what works for some players doesn't work for the next guy. He can get personal with players and get them motivated.

D.) Not once have I seen a Gruden coached team come off unprepared or not expecting to play.

E.) He's young

F.) Good talent evaluator IMO and he will let the DC coach the defense and stay the hell out unless if the DC screws up real bad.
 
Dungy built the team Gruden Won with

At not only does Dungy know how to build teams he knows how to win try like 9 years of 12+ wins
 
This is how I feel about Cowher vs. Gruden. Cowher was in arguably the best franchise in history, with a legendary DC, owner, etc. All of his success came from there as far as I know. Gruden had success in two franchises, one of which is one of the worst run franchises, another is mediocre. There is no way anyone can say Gruden benefited from being a part of good franchises. Gruden has shown he can win with a built team. Cowher may be able to do the same, but he hasn't shown it so we don't know.
 
wagonhed said:
yeah, I went there, I made a thread.


discuss why Jon Gruden is the best choice for the Texans in 2011!

:doot:
Click to expand...

oh ok lets fire n mediocre coach and hire another mediocre coach who happen to win one Super Bowl with another coaches players then did barely anything after.

Gruden TB - 57-55 in 7 years
Kubiak Hou - 35 - 38 in 5 years

what was the definition of insanity again?
 
eriadoc said:
First off, I'd be OK with Chucky taking a team that Kubiak built to the SB. Second, you're forgetting the Raiders in your blase dismissal of Gruden. Who's to say that Dungy could have coached the team he built to a win over the team Gruden built?
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I take nothing away from the Raider team that got royally screwed via Thomasina Brady's Fumble in the snow that day. But I stand by my assessment of Gruden.
 
Gruden - Sure.
Cowher - Great.
Billick - Why not.
Either Schottenheimer - Go for it.

See, I look at it like this:

We're sitting at a table to eat a meal.

What sits on our plate right now is a huge steaming pile of dog crap. Mastiff sized. The dog was even courteous enough to put the DQ swirl on the top of the pile. Inside of the pile, if you look close, you can see chewed up hopes. There is some corn.... and busted achilles tendon.... some positive press clippings.... Oh, hey, there's the prime of AJ's career in there, too!

images


Wow - that stinks.

So, when we talk about other coaches, its like we have all these other still-covered mystery dishes on the table, too. All of them are relatively unknown but you have to believe that they couldn't be worse than the mastiff sized steaming turd that is on our plate now.

In summation - Kubiak regime = steaming mastiff turd. Any new coach with solid pedigree = not mastiff turd.

Just gimme some change come January.... and take this plate away, please. I ate my fill last year.
 
Norg said:
Dungy built the team Gruden Won with

At not only does Dungy know how to build teams he knows how to win try like 9 years of 12+ wins
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And 8 years of getting donkey punched from the play-offs from the top seed. No thanks to Dungy.
 
nero THE zero said:
That's assuming the reason the Texans aren't going to the playoffs is because of the players and not the coach.
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That's a very valid counter-arguement. Would another coach have been able to coach this team into multiple playoff appearances since 2006? Maybe so... 2009 was so so close to playoffs. Would Indy's dominance of the division still have been too much??

I think the Texans have a really good roster, lots of really good players. It's time for them to turn the corner and be consistent winners. We are FAR from the 18 win Texans of 2002-2005 and needing a new coach to take over. We're a well build team in my opinion. It's just a matter of if Kubiak is going to be the guy or is someone else? But I do think someone is going to make this team into a consistent playoff team during the next several years.

Interesting to look at Bill Billichick's history as a head coach. First 6 seasons as a head coach he only had 1 winning season. 5 years as the Browns HC, 1 winning season, 1 playoff appearance. Then goes on to be be an assistant for 4 season and then moves to New England in 2000. The 6 previous seasons, the Patriots had made the playoffs 4 times with 1 Super Bowl appearance, and only had 1 losing season. Billichick gets there, goes 5-11 the first season and then the rest is history: Dynasty.
 
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