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Texans place Franchise Tag on D Rob today.
- Thread starter J-Russ
- Start date
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I don't really think Dunta and his agent have all that much leverage with the current situation. I would be a fan of the non-exclusive franchise tag.
No team will pay that much for him AND give up two 1st round draft picks. Gives us more time to negotiate a long-term deal too which would void the tag.
No team will pay that much for him AND give up two 1st round draft picks. Gives us more time to negotiate a long-term deal too which would void the tag.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I think our defense is better with Dunta in there, which makes our whole team better. But in the current light of our economy, I am sickened by these millions paid to sports figures. I quit watching baseball a long time ago because of this crap, I hope that doesn't happen to me with football.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
well, as long as contracts aren't guaranteed, at least the players will be giving effort in the NFL, unlike MLB and NBA.
texanskan
Waterboy
I have zero problems with football player contracts they put their bodies on the line and are the best at what they do.
IMO with non-guaranteed contracts it's hard to complain
That's really the only reason they would be putting the tag on him. It's always possible that they can't work out a deal and he play's with the Tag. It's better for the Salary Cap if they work out a long term deal. Hopefully a deal gets done. DR has value on the field and the locker room with the Texans.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Well, of course we're not going to let him walk without compensation. I don't think anyone who knows anything about the NFL thinks otherwise. It's always been either overpay a little bit, or franchise tag him. Did anyone think otherwise?
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Would you rather pay Dunta top 5 CB money or have him walk away for nothing?
I think that burdening our cap with a bloated salary for Dunta is long term a bigger issue than letting him walk away for nothing.
Put me in the "Hope Dunta resigns for a Top 20ish level contract or let him go" camp. (Even then I think we are over paying him as a CB, but I will pay him for his leadership and toughness qualities)
Don't forget that if we dont' tag him and he signs a big deal somewhere else, we'll probably get a 3rd or 4th in compensation from the NFL
I say franchise him and if we can't come to an agreement we can work out a trade instead of getting two 1st round picks maybe we take a 1st & 3rd rounder in aprils draft and get his replacement at a cheap price. Dunta is a really good player but he isn't worth that kind of coin plus we don't know how his knee will hold up long term wise.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
And you expect a team to give up a 1st and 3rd for him?
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Well if it was limited to only those two choices? I'd let him walk - but we have the franchise tag. If you're asking if I'd rather let him walk or pay him top 5 money for one year via the franchise tag - that's easy. Franchise tag.
Let's not forget that if he DOES get back to 100%, he could be entering the prime of his career. He was playing at a pro bowl level before the injury, and if he's about to do that for say 3 or 4 years, you have to pay for it. You know he's not going to get lazy after his big contract. He works his tail off. I'd rather pay a LITTLE too much for him than go with an unproven commodity who you never know if they'll gel with the team, etc.
If some team wanted DR & we couldn't work out a deal with him I would ask for a 1st rd pick. If we got the 1st rd pick we could trade our 1st rd pick for Peppers & use Detroit's (for example) pick no.21 that we aquired for DR to pick a DB like DJ Moore.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
No way Dunta is worth what he is asking. Even pre-injury that would be almost laughable
Good player, but not top 5 or 20
Good player, but not top 5 or 20
I don't understand this, "he was playing at a pro-bowl level before the injury" stuff. I think he was playing at an NFL starter level, but not pro-bowl level. I don't think he's ever been a pro-bowl corner. His coverage skills are very poor. He's our best tackler....... he use to hit like a Mack Truck, and he shut down the outside edge for any running back in the game......
That spells strong safety to me.
But, IMHO, if the Texans are close to giving him $20 million gauranteed, if that's what they think he is worth, I can't see them not closing the deal on $23 million.
If they are still at a stale mate, the Texans have got to be closer to $17 million.
That spells strong safety to me.
But, IMHO, if the Texans are close to giving him $20 million gauranteed, if that's what they think he is worth, I can't see them not closing the deal on $23 million.
If they are still at a stale mate, the Texans have got to be closer to $17 million.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
Even if he signs for top 5 CB money I really don't see what the big deal is. The salary cap is so large now that unless you really go overboard in FA its not as big a deal as it once was. In a couple years his contract will look better than the day after he signs it. Its not like we are the type of team that desperately needs all that cap space to go after some big name guy, we have been building through the draft fairly effectively the last few years. I would hate to see us lose young talent like that without any compensation, especially at a position of such value and need. Bottom line is I'd much rather spend the money on Dunta than one or two similarly over-priced free agents.
dtran04
Veteran
One positive is that if Dunta does leave, you would expect the Texans to receive about a 3rd-4th round compensatory pick if they don't go out and sign someone significant. The Texans always seem to replace everybody they let go and never take advantage of the compensatory system.
DiehardChris
You betcha!
Maybe my memory is fuzzy - but I remember him playing extremely well before he got hurt. I really thought he was entering his prime.
This.
We've never let anyone of significance go before. Maybe its time to rip off the bandaid.
I like Dunta for his leadership and tough mentality more than anything. But I don't want us to spend top 5 money on him. People are being shortsighted if they think thats all it will amount to. Every other player on our roster will get the idea that all you have to do is threaten free agency in order to get a big payday. I would be pissed if I was a like AJ who has led the team offensively and made numerous probowls, yet was making less than a guy like DRob
GP
Go Texans!
Hmmm...
He's going to push for a tad bit more than what we're probably offering him?
Then we'd have to put our franchise tag on him?
Before the injury, I'd say "no problem."
Now, I'm not so sure. I was in the "Re-sign Dunta!" camp when the thread was started back in the regular season. I'm coming off that, mostly because I thought we had a chance of Dunta working with the Texans to get a deal done that was fair to both sides, especially factoring in the injury.
I don't think anyone is going to give up high picks for him. But if they're serious, then I'm for doing the trade. He has value, to a certain point.
He's going to push for a tad bit more than what we're probably offering him?
Then we'd have to put our franchise tag on him?
Before the injury, I'd say "no problem."
Now, I'm not so sure. I was in the "Re-sign Dunta!" camp when the thread was started back in the regular season. I'm coming off that, mostly because I thought we had a chance of Dunta working with the Texans to get a deal done that was fair to both sides, especially factoring in the injury.
I don't think anyone is going to give up high picks for him. But if they're serious, then I'm for doing the trade. He has value, to a certain point.
P
Polo
Guest
I wouldn't give Dunta as much as he's asking for, but I think some of you are underestimating his ability and what he brings to our defense when he's healthy.
If Dunta was on the Vikings, Titans, Ravens, Eagles, ect., I think he'd be thought of in a different light...The fact is that he's been a pretty good player on really poor defenses that struggle to put pressure on opposing QB's. Not a lot of talent around him, and the scheme was not really conducive to putting players in position to make plays agressively.
But no...He hasn't shown to be worth top tier CB money. But he's not just a guy either.
If Dunta was on the Vikings, Titans, Ravens, Eagles, ect., I think he'd be thought of in a different light...The fact is that he's been a pretty good player on really poor defenses that struggle to put pressure on opposing QB's. Not a lot of talent around him, and the scheme was not really conducive to putting players in position to make plays agressively.
But no...He hasn't shown to be worth top tier CB money. But he's not just a guy either.
Blake
MMQB
Give him his damn money. He came back from a horrible injury and played really well the last 1/2 of the season. That is dedication for a team that has given him little in return besides money.
If he wants to be here, then im going to pay him his money.
I think we should be glad his agent is not trying to force a trade or release or something.
If he wants to be here, then im going to pay him his money.
I think we should be glad his agent is not trying to force a trade or release or something.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I'm going to have to disagree, SM. I like the way Dunta plays the game, but he was no where near his normal self last season.
IMO, it's too risky to throw a lot of money at him now. If he's not willing to come to an agreement, tag him. This way he'd have a year to prove he's worth top 10 money.
buddyboy
Rookie
I kind of understand where the franchise tag people are coming from...how you have an extra year to decide if he's worth top 10 money...but then, arent' we going to be paying him top 10 money to see if he's worth top 10 money?
Blake
MMQB
You want to pay him almost 10 million to see if he is worth paying 20-23 guaranteed over a 5-6 year deal?
He is 26 years old. Should be back to 100% this season. He is going to get his long term deal money be it from us, or from another team.
And there is no guarantee if you tag him he will agree to play.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Yes, but 2 things:
1. We're only doing it for one year, so we aren't stuck in a long contract with a guy that ends up being unable to fulfill it do to injury... If he gets 20 million in bonus money over 5 years and the team made a mistake and wants to release him after two years, it would be a $15 million charge on that 3rd season cap just to release him... or, it would be $7.5 million for year 3 and another $7.5 million for year 4.
2. After cutting guys like Greenwood, Green, Weaver this month, the team will be over $30 million under the cap by most accounts, so a $10 million charge for this one season isn't crippling for the team's efforts to re-sign OD, DRyans, the draft picks, or its activity in free agency.
Yes but it's only for one year. I would rather franchise him becase it wont tie up cap money long term. If he gets back to 100 % sign him long term in 2010.
If we franchise him & trade him for a no.1 pick this would allow the Texans cap flexability to sign Peppers & draft a CB with the no.1 pick we got for Dunta.
Not a bad way to look at it IMO.
The Texans hold all of the power in these negotiations becuse they can franchise DR & keep him or trade him & get more draft picks along with freeing up cap money to sign a top tier FA with the money they saved by getting DR off the books. Plus they should get a no.1 for DR in a trade if DR is the top 10 CB that some people on this MB claim he is.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I'd just like to see him prove he's going to be that guy he was before the injury. He said himself that he wasn't 100% at any point last season. Now, he could very well come back 100% this season, but there's that chance he won't.
In the end, I'd be happy for Dunta getting a new deal if that's the case. I just hope it turns out to be a gamble that ends up in our favor, unlike a few in our past.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Makes perfect sense to me.....Dunta might be upset, but with the texans still unsure of how the injury affected his play for the long term & now the economy, the 17 -20 million dollar deal they say have on the table for him is only fair for both parties.
My advice to Dunta:
Take the bird in hand & seize that 8 - 11 million more that's guaranteed as opposed to possibly losing some of that by going out on the market & subsequently watching teams low-ball even more essentially for the same reasons we are. Or worse... we sign an overpriced FA & then lose some of that guaranteed money that's earmarked now & thereby forcing us to franchise him...or someone gives us 2 1st rounders....
We win either way.
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bigbrewster2000
Veteran
What does that mean? Reeves only has 4 mil gauranteed. That is hardly a big contract. His entire contract is smaller than what Dunta is asking for in gauranteed money.
Blake
MMQB
Fair enough. Like you I want whats best for the team, but I also want what is best for Dunta.
Lets hope they both get a good deal. And the fans.
GP
Go Texans!
What are the chances that a team will fake interest in Dunta, just to get us to franchise him (you only get ONE franchise tagged player, right?) when the other team is really after some other guy on our team? That way they have made us use the franchise tag on Dunta and they can go after a different player on our team and not have to worry about the tag's compensation clause(es).
I either want Dunta back for one more year, or slap the tag on him and make another team give us the farm for him if they think he's THAT good. But I am having a hard time thinking that any team out there would go to that length for a guy who had the sort of injury that Dunta had. Then, next year Dunta would be walking away...so then what was the point of it all?
I dunno. This is interesting, to say the least.
I either want Dunta back for one more year, or slap the tag on him and make another team give us the farm for him if they think he's THAT good. But I am having a hard time thinking that any team out there would go to that length for a guy who had the sort of injury that Dunta had. Then, next year Dunta would be walking away...so then what was the point of it all?
I dunno. This is interesting, to say the least.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I think it's very hard for fans to know that. First of all, he's been playing for a very poor and unimaginative coaching staff. Second, since his rookie year, he's been on teams with a very poor pass rush and very poor safety play. If you were to put him on a team like Philadelphia, New England, Pittsburgh the past few years it is at least possible that he would be considered an elite CB. I look forward to seeing what he can do the next couple years and I think if he checks out physically is well worth the risk of a hefty contract.
houstonbola
Practice Squad
Before he was hurt many argue he was on his way to his first pro bowl caliber year and I agree in full. With the current situation I would hate to see him go but if he doesnt agree to the mentioned 20M gauranteed then we put the tag on him and get compensated. No way do we let him walk without being compensated. I really do hope they come to some sort of agreement for him to stay though.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
That is the most ill-thought out hypothesis I've seen in quite some time.
Have you even looked at the list of our UFA's? There's not a single guy on that list (with the possible exception of Dunta) that would be even remotely worthy of the franchise tag. If the Texans don't use the tag on Dunta, they will not be using it on anybody and every other NFL team knows that.
buddyboy
Rookie
Yankee_In_TX
Dance Lindsay!
I'll Texutation you for that.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
I would love to chime in on my support for resigning Dunta, but some of the statements on this thread are just ridiculous and need to be put in place, first.
There is no long term cap implications of franchising Dunta. PERIOD.
Some of these people think that if you sign someone it somehow is going to make signing other people impossible or is going to somehow turn us into the 49ers of the 90s. People need to wake up. Read an article outside of Houston or not written by the mindless yokels at the Chronicle (apologies steph and LZ) The cap is gone in 2010 and the cap and the math involved is going to be completely changed by 2012. People act like they are spending their own money on players and it just makes me wonder if people even realize that you have to pay players fair market value to keep them or they leave and your team will suck.
If you don't sign Dunta, you better get Asomugho because we have the cap space, we have the money, and we have the need. What is the problem? Is something wrong with resigning Dunta?
Please realize that signing Dunta is going to have little to no effect on the future. All this salary cap nonsense is just used by cheap owners to have an excuse not to sign someone. We have the cap space, money, and need. Bob (and most of the posters around here) had no problem giving Carr the big money and new contract....why not actually retain someone who is worth a crap?
Count me clearly in the 'RESIGN DUNTA' camp because any other position is just ludicrous
There is no long term cap implications of franchising Dunta. PERIOD.
Some of these people think that if you sign someone it somehow is going to make signing other people impossible or is going to somehow turn us into the 49ers of the 90s. People need to wake up. Read an article outside of Houston or not written by the mindless yokels at the Chronicle (apologies steph and LZ) The cap is gone in 2010 and the cap and the math involved is going to be completely changed by 2012. People act like they are spending their own money on players and it just makes me wonder if people even realize that you have to pay players fair market value to keep them or they leave and your team will suck.
If you don't sign Dunta, you better get Asomugho because we have the cap space, we have the money, and we have the need. What is the problem? Is something wrong with resigning Dunta?
Please realize that signing Dunta is going to have little to no effect on the future. All this salary cap nonsense is just used by cheap owners to have an excuse not to sign someone. We have the cap space, money, and need. Bob (and most of the posters around here) had no problem giving Carr the big money and new contract....why not actually retain someone who is worth a crap?
Count me clearly in the 'RESIGN DUNTA' camp because any other position is just ludicrous
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
1st, i'm confident that the owners & the NFLPA will get a deal worked out before the uncapped year is supposed to hit. Stability is a big reason why the NFL has been so successful above all the other major sports & the collective bargaining agreement is a big reason why that's been possible. besides, the only major thing the NFLPA wants to change is the rookie salary table. If they can limit what the unproven rookies get coming into the league, it makes for more money to be spread around to the vets who've already proven they can play.
Secondly, Most players want & get the lions share of their guaranteed money front loaded. So the idea that a big money FA signing won't affect the signing/extending of another player & or a cap situation is ridiculous.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
My point is that its a soft cap right now with the uncapped year. You must realize that the uncapped year is a certainty. It isn't up for debate. The only thing that is up for debate is how they are going to handle the transition to the next deal.
So you renegotiate your contracts on your own big ticket players and sign UFAs and funnel your cap hits to 2010. Teams are already acting on this, its not a big secret. What you are going to end up seeing is a soft cap CBA that has a luxury tax mechanism to spread the wealth....sadly, it is going to be along the lines of the current MLB model. I also feel based on how far apart the parties involved are, a work stoppage is not out of question.
If there is a competitive advantage to be had, and I feel there is, you should try and take advantage of it. Point your cap to 2010 and take care of your business and get the house in order long-term.
So you renegotiate your contracts on your own big ticket players and sign UFAs and funnel your cap hits to 2010. Teams are already acting on this, its not a big secret. What you are going to end up seeing is a soft cap CBA that has a luxury tax mechanism to spread the wealth....sadly, it is going to be along the lines of the current MLB model. I also feel based on how far apart the parties involved are, a work stoppage is not out of question.
If there is a competitive advantage to be had, and I feel there is, you should try and take advantage of it. Point your cap to 2010 and take care of your business and get the house in order long-term.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
SH, I actually agree with your larger point... which is that the team's cap situation is such that if they want Dunta here, they can keep him without harming the team this season or going forward.
That being said, some of your points are bogus:
1. There still could be a cap in place in 2010 and if there is it is likely to be no larger than the one this year. After all, it is the owners that have decided to terminate the current agreement. And, the uncapped season actually is very bad for the players because they lose a lot of freedom. For instance, without the capped year, a player can't become a free agent until they have six full seasons in the NFL- as opposed to 4 years as it is currently. So, next season guys like OD and Demeco Ryans wouldn't be able to hit free agency for 2 more years.
2. Any contracts that exist now will impact under the new deal. So, if we sign Dunta to a deal where he gets $10 million in 2010 that $10 million will count against any cap that is in place when a new deal is struck- or the same can be said for 2011 or 2012.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Your 2nd point is valid and could very well be the case, but the 2010 season is uncapped. when the negotiating period ended without a new CBA it automatically triggered a 2010 uncapped year. I am not saying its a good thing or a bad thing, its just a thing. It depends on how you look at it whether you see it as an omen or an opportunity.
February is personnel-juggling time for NFL teams, and the biggest ball in the air for the Indianapolis Colts, president Bill Polian said, is Kelvin Hayden.
If the Colts can't re-sign the starting cornerback -- and negotiations aren't going well, Polian said -- they plan to give him the one-year franchise tag to the tune of nearly $10 million.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090213/SPORTS03/902130338/1058/SPORTS03
***********************************************
FWIW, looks like the Colts are confronted with the same set of problems
with their top corner that we are ?
If the Colts can't re-sign the starting cornerback -- and negotiations aren't going well, Polian said -- they plan to give him the one-year franchise tag to the tune of nearly $10 million.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090213/SPORTS03/902130338/1058/SPORTS03
***********************************************
FWIW, looks like the Colts are confronted with the same set of problems
with their top corner that we are ?
I agree with SH.
Uncle Bob Spend some money
Not going to happen
In this economy Uncle Bob just raised saeson ticket prices 3% & parking $3.
Most of the NFL kept ticket prices the same as last years prices.
i think this tells the fans where Uncle Bobs heart lies.
Uncle Bob Spend some money
Not going to happen
In this economy Uncle Bob just raised saeson ticket prices 3% & parking $3.
Most of the NFL kept ticket prices the same as last years prices.
i think this tells the fans where Uncle Bobs heart lies.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
That's just ignorant! You can criticize all kinds of things about the Texans. However, calling Bob McNair cheap is ridiculous. Furthermore, your argument using the ticket prices is also ignorant. Check out how ticket prices at Reliant compare to the rest of the NFL. I know I pay less than $40 per ticket for good seats and a great venue. I can't come close to that at pits like Texas Stadium. Houston ticket prices are some of the cheapest in the NFL, still! By the way, show me an example of McNair's cheapness... perhaps you recall the huge investment he made to build the stadium in hopes he could pressure the NFL into coming here instead of LA.