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Old 05-03-2013   #261
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

So 76, are you saying DeAndre Hopkins sucks? Kinda sounds like it. If that is what you're getting at I disagree.

We'll both find out come September though. Can't wait.
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Old 05-03-2013   #262
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

No, what I said is to temper your enthusiasm a little bit.

Next, in the game against N.C. St., Hopkins caught two passes for 75 yards, both were against David Amerson.
Amerson is a guy all the draftniks here know.
He had given up a ton of big plays this last year.

Hopkins caught one ball for 13 yards when Amerson gave a big cushion and couldn't react back quick enough.
The long ball was when Amerson bit on a double move on the 9 route.

There were five or six balls that were either defended, or straight dropped by Hopkins, or jarred loose by the defender on the hit.
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Old 05-03-2013   #263
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

To bring 76Texan's "reality check" back into this plane of reality, I suggest researching receivers, even REALLY good one currently in the NFL *cough*Andre Johnson*cough* who had far worse performances in their final collegiate years. It's a LONG list.

Do I expect him to eclipse Megatron as a rookie? Uh...no.

Do I expect him to be a productive #2 fairly quickly? Yes.
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Old 05-03-2013   #264
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
To bring 76Texan's "reality check" back into this plane of reality, I suggest researching receivers, even REALLY good one currently in the NFL *cough*Andre Johnson*cough* who had far worse performances in their final collegiate years. It's a LONG list.

Do I expect him to eclipse Megatron as a rookie? Uh...no.

Do I expect him to be a productive #2 fairly quickly? Yes.
That's where I'm at.
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Old 05-03-2013   #265
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
No, what I said is to temper your enthusiasm a little bit.

Next, in the game against N.C. St., Hopkins caught two passes for 75 yards, both were against David Amerson.
Amerson is a guy all the draftniks here know.
He had given up a ton of big plays this last year.

Hopkins caught one ball for 13 yards when Amerson gave a big cushion and couldn't react back quick enough.
The long ball was when Amerson bit on a double move on the 9 route.

There were five or six balls that were either defended, or straight dropped by Hopkins, or jarred loose by the defender on the hit.
I don't know if you misunderstood my post, but I was merely saying that Hopkins was going to play a lot and be counted on this year.
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Old 05-03-2013   #266
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I don't know if you misunderstood my post, but I was merely saying that Hopkins was going to play a lot and be counted on this year.
Yeah, I've come around to us really not having much else of an option but to start him right away. I was weary at first do to how stubborn Kubiak's been with his offense, but he'll likely be our best option if he learns and understands the playbook. Seeing that Posey will be out for half, if not all season. K-Mart is more of a slot guy and Jean is obviously not going to be that guy
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Old 05-03-2013   #267
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
Yeah, I've come around to us really not having much else of an option but to start him right away. I was weary at first do to how stubborn Kubiak's been with his offense, but he'll likely be our best option if he learns and understands the playbook. Seeing that Posey will be out for half, if not all season. K-Mart is more of a slot guy and Jean is obviously not going to be that guy
I'm sorry, man, but I've seen this on the board a few times. It's not "weary" (which means tired) but "wary" (which means careful and has the same root as beware).

Kubiak expects 1st rounders to be starters. He's more careful with later round picks and gives them more leeway and time to grow into the offense.

But he's mostly about performance. If you perform in practice, he'll get you onto the field in the real game. If you perform in the game, he'll make sure you get more chances.

Guys who are gamers but don't perform well in practice won't see the field in a Kubiak offense.

Keshawn obviously was showing good things in practice last year, so he leapfrogged over Posey and Jean. But when he got his chances on the field, he didn't show up. If he'd caught more of those passes, he'd have seen more and more thrown to him.

I expect Hopkins to start at #2. Kubiak's going to expect a lot from him early. If Hopkins doesn't make the catches or doesn't run the right routes, he'll get demoted and Jean will move up and get another chance.

At least, that's the way I see it and expect it to go down.
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Old 05-03-2013   #268
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I'm sorry, man, but I've seen this on the board a few times. It's not "weary" (which means tired) but "wary" (which means careful and has the same root as beware).

Kubiak expects 1st rounders to be starters. He's more careful with later round picks and gives them more leeway and time to grow into the offense.

But he's mostly about performance. If you perform in practice, he'll get you onto the field in the real game. If you perform in the game, he'll make sure you get more chances.

Guys who are gamers but don't perform well in practice won't see the field in a Kubiak offense.

Keshawn obviously was showing good things in practice last year, so he leapfrogged over Posey and Jean. But when he got his chances on the field, he didn't show up. If he'd caught more of those passes, he'd have seen more and more thrown to him.

I expect Hopkins to start at #2. Kubiak's going to expect a lot from him early. If Hopkins doesn't make the catches or doesn't run the right routes, he'll get demoted and Jean will move up and get another chance.

At least, that's the way I see it and expect it to go down.
Ha, thanks. I kinda had an idea I wasn't using the correct word. Heck, I think I've even used "weery" a few times too.
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Old 05-03-2013   #269
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I'm sorry, man, but I've seen this on the board a few times. It's not "weary" (which means tired) but "wary" (which means careful and has the same root as beware).

Kubiak expects 1st rounders to be starters. He's more careful with later round picks and gives them more leeway and time to grow into the offense.

But he's mostly about performance. If you perform in practice, he'll get you onto the field in the real game. If you perform in the game, he'll make sure you get more chances.

Guys who are gamers but don't perform well in practice won't see the field in a Kubiak offense.

Keshawn obviously was showing good things in practice last year, so he leapfrogged over Posey and Jean. But when he got his chances on the field, he didn't show up. If he'd caught more of those passes, he'd have seen more and more thrown to him.I expect Hopkins to start at #2. Kubiak's going to expect a lot from him early. If Hopkins doesn't make the catches or doesn't run the right routes, he'll get demoted and Jean will move up and get another chance.

At least, that's the way I see it and expect it to go down.
Just curious but since you brought up grammar, should you begin a sentence with "but"? Would not a ";" then continuation be more proper?

Also, "he'd have seen more and more" seemingly should be more correctly written "more" or "increasingly more"? Perhaps you could elaborate and take the focus away from what we are discussing as I am certain that I was the only one who realized what the OP meant.
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Old 05-03-2013   #270
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Just curious but since you brought up grammar, should you begin a sentence with "but"? Would not a ";" then continuation be more proper?
The rule about beginning a sentence with a conjunction is out of date and no longer followed.

Quote:
Also, "he'd have seen more and more" seemingly should be more correctly written "more" or "increasingly more"? Perhaps you could elaborate and take the focus away from what we are discussing as I am certain that I was the only one who realized what the OP meant.
Although "more" would have been preferable in most instances, "more and more" communicated what I wanted to say in that his targets would have increased not once, but multiple times in a discrete (not discreet) way. "Increasingly more" implies a steady ramping up and the use of an adverb there is awkward.

But seriously, if someone uses a word or phrase incorrectly, don't you think it's better to let them know about it so they can use it correctly in the future? I do. It's one thing to get corrected here where usage is more casual than to make the mistake in a setting where you'll be embarrassed.

I don't go through the forum and correct all the mistakes I see. Most of them are just typos and I make as many of them as anyone else. But if I see someone make the same mistake over and over, I consider it a favor to correct it. I'd expect the same.
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Old 05-03-2013   #271
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
The rule about beginning a sentence with a conjunction is out of date and no longer followed.



Although "more" would have been preferable in most instances, "more and more" communicated what I wanted to say in that his targets would have increased not once, but multiple times in a discrete (not discreet) way. "Increasingly more" implies a steady ramping up and the use of an adverb there is awkward.

But seriously, if someone uses a word or phrase incorrectly, don't you think it's better to let them know about it so they can use it correctly in the future? I do. It's one thing to get corrected here where usage is more casual than to make the mistake in a setting where you'll be embarrassed.

I don't go through the forum and correct all the mistakes I see. Most of them are just typos and I make as many of them as anyone else. But if I see someone make the same mistake over and over, I consider it a favor to correct it. I'd expect the same.
TPN, next can you drive home some "then" and "than" lessons? My money says it's a lost cause on this board and many others.
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Old 05-03-2013   #272
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

Two other good games were against Ball St and Furman, neither had the team nor the CB that was worth a lick, so it's better to scratch those off.

Against Georgia Tech, a team with no drafted player, Hopkins saw a combination of zone and man.
One CB that was on him is an UDFA for the Saints; the other was a Jr with some speed that may or may not get drafted next year (he wasn't burned deep by Hopkins.)

Hopkins had 7 catches and a ton of yards.
The longest catch was for some 50 yards on a broken play.
Boyd scrambled around and found Hopkins on the side line with nobody covering him.
The next long play went for some 35-40 yards and a TD.
The Yellow jackets were in cover 2 zone under.
The responsible safety bought the pump fake by Boyd, while Hopkins cut back toward the corner on the post corner route.
This was really scheme and mistake by the D and a good job by the QB at least as much as Hopkins's route running. He didn't really beat anybody.
A short pass into the zone turned into a long play of some 25-30 yards when the safety took a bad angle coming up.
Another short pass went for a decent gain when the CB went for the ball and missed.
The other three catches were short passes.

So far, we have yet to see Hopkins run by anybody with his "speed".
He isn't slow, but I really didn't see the kind of speed that can take the top off an NFL defense or a good college defense.

Reality check is all, not to say that Hopkins is a bad player.
There was may be one receiver in this draft that I would put in the first round, and that is Patterson (and I'm not too thrilled about his interview, so there was concern there.)

Tavon Austin is a guy I hesitated to consider highly because I prefer not to draft a slot guy in the first; however, he's really dynamic with the ball, so he's a borderline first rounder for me.

The only other guy that I thought of as having potential as a first rounder was Keenan Allen, but his injury and top speed pulled down his draft grade for me.

My position was to trade out of the first round (take that trade by the Pats for example), because I just don't like these receiver prospects enough in the first.

I've been watching this position closely the last 3 years; tons of college games.
I'm not sure the draft experts out there had watched that much game tapes on receivers. They can't, because they have to watch a lot of different positions.
And I have as much time as they do.
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Old 05-03-2013   #273
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Reality check is all, not to say that Hopkins is a bad player.
Yeah, but how's his spelling and grammar?
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Old 05-04-2013   #274
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Yeah, but how's his spelling and grammar?
I hear he got your and you're figured out in 8th grade.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=32p8d6OudgU
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Old 05-04-2013   #275
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Rey, you may want to temper your enthusiasm a little.

Let's take a look at his 13-catch game against LSU.
SEC defense, you think they would be good, right?
Well, the strength of that D is the front line; when that front line couldn't get to the QB, their back end can not hold up; and that was what happened in that game.

Out of his 13 catches, 2 were bubble screens when there was nobody on him.
2 were into the zone, and 9 were covered one-on-one.
There were 7 or 8 incompletions where Hopkins didn't get enough separation.

How many do you think he would have gotten against NFL-caliber CB?
I don't know about that, your kinda picking and choosing which I don't believe gives the kid a fair evaluation. I have not watched nearly as much tape as you have but I am not seeing some of the issues you are. For instance, many of the incompletions from the tape I watched was Taj Boyd throwing Hopkins into coverage, ie the opposite of throwing him open. Or throwing high which forces Hopkins to leave his feet instead of continue the route and allowing the CB to close. I came away more concerned with Boyd's accuracy on short to intermediate throws than Hopkins separation.

I think he runs fantastic routes. He is especially effective on the double move, showing both an understanding of the coverage presented and an excellent sense of timing. He shows run after catch ability, with his ability to stick his foot in the ground and cut on underneath routes being his most dangerous move.

He drops some balls, seems to be anticipating his run after the catch before the ball is in his hands. Could do a better job of high pointing the ball and attacking it when it's in the air and sometimes waits for it.

Excellent spatial awareness, body control and competiveness. He played whoever was in front of him and consistently produced on a high level. I really couldnt ask for more. I am in agreement with those who said 60 catches. Just my two cents.
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Old 05-04-2013   #276
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

I uploaded some screen shots of the LSU game to photobucket.
See for yourself:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/76...pkins/vs%20LSU


Play 1 - 10:52 Second Qtr
Defender forced Hopkins out of bound.

Play 2 - 13:50 Third Qtr
Hopkins couldn't hold on to the ball as LB pulled his arms apart.
Also, it looks like he caugh the nose of the football.

Play 3 - 1:42 Third Qtr
On a quick in, Hopkins couldn't on to the ball as the safety came up with a hit that jarred the ball loose.

Play 4 - 3:53 Fourth Qtr
Hopkins allowed the CB Simon to pin him to the side line, not giving the QB much room to work with.
He didn't get any separation, and thus had a hard time with the play.
One or two more steps inside and he would have the room along the side line to use his body to shield the defender from the ball.
Look how he got closer and closer to the sideline on the vertical stem.
Toward the end of the play, he was on the white little yard markers along the side line;
that is just too close to the side line.
He let the CB win the inside position.

Play 5 - 1:38 Fourth Qtr
The ball went right through his hands.


Play 5 - 1:32 Fourth Qtr
Hopkins could have pressed the route a couple yards further before he made the come back.
No separation allowed the CB to be right on him.
The ball was right where it needed to be if only he had worked a couple more yard downfield
(maybe 3 yards past the down marker before turning around.)

Play 6
Hopkins would have done better taking a straight stem or took it a little to the outside first;
instead, he started his stem to the inside immediately, giving the safety a clue to the quick in route.
It was a bang bang play; the commentator saw no reason for a PI call.
(But that's beside the point; Hopkins could have taken a better stem on the route.)

For the still shots that you can view one by one, click here:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/76...pkins/vs%20LSU

First, click on the top left photo.
When you get to the View Page, you can use the NEXT button to move along the series.
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Old 05-05-2013   #277
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

I agree with this guy..


http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/2/...-than-expected

Overall: 91

Hopkins is currently rated as my number three receiver but I could see him over take Patterson or Allen if there are any slip ups. Hopkins is supremely able and well rounded. A great route runner, Hopkins greatest ability is his amazing control of his body and ability to throw defenders off balance. He has a great frame with length much greater than a player his height and a strong frame. His ability to fight for balls and mechanic to make every catch is extremely refined. His blocking needs work but the size and willingness are there. Hopkins ability as a deep threat are probably some of the best in the class. Only Patterson's YAC ability exceeds Hopkins' ability as a deep threat. If Hopkins is available at the 27th overall pick I would be ecstatic. He is the most refined receiver in the draft.
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Old 05-05-2013   #278
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Against Florida St., Hopkins had 5 catches.

The long one was on a post route where the CB Rhodes left him to take on the slot receiver on an out route. The safety bit the play fake and left Hopkins wide open.

Rhodes allowed a short pass (about 5-6 yards).

Two other short catches were on the freshman Darby who wasn't on the two-deep depth chart.

The fifth catch was a bubble screen for short yardage as well.
I saw the same thing and that wasmy concern. He doesn't get good seperation and if u look at his 20 yd shuttle,you will see and alarmingtime that backs it up. That's why I was more in favor of a burst guy like hunter or williams. Maybe even king from Georgie who torched Alabama.
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Old 05-05-2013   #279
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

Hopkins was definitely a downfield receiver , versus dink & screen...
Quote:

  • Surprisingly, Hopkins was a major deep threat. This surprised me because I thought of Hopkins as a guy who ran a lot of curls and mid-range outside routes. We see that 70% of his catches were past 6 yards. The highest in the major WRs for this class, excepting Terrance Williams


  • DeAndre Hopkins shows us how much deeper he caught the ball than the others. On average he caught the ball 12 yards from the LOS, before YAC.

How Did Their Systems Help/Hurt Them?
  • Hopkins numbers would be obscene with more targets. He’s looking at north of 1600 yards with more targets, this of course is due to his high average catch distance.
http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/04/tier1-wrs/
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Old 05-05-2013   #280
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

A receiver's production is directly tied with his QB.
If he has a good QB, the receiver should be helped.

In the same article, you would find that Tyler Bray didn't help Hunter as he missed quite a few deep balls.

By the same token, Zac Maynard didn't help Kennan Allen (who isn't a speed guy to start) with his weak arm. If you don't have time to watch the California Golden Bear, you can still read about it.
Furthermore, their schedule is stacked against good secondary in the PAC 12 this past year.
Their non-conference schedule had Ohio St., who has as a good secondary as any in the country. One CB, Roby, was a Jr that is rated number one in his class, and is predicted to be the number one corner taken in the draft next year.
The other CB is Howard, our UDFA; the nickel/3rd safety is Another of our UDFA.
One of their safeties is predicted to be the number two safety in the draft next year. The other boasts 4.43 speed.
Nevada is another non-conference opponent; they had a CB Wooten who is a 6th rd pick as a safety Duke Williams who is a 4th rd pick.


Hopkins faced nowhere near the competition.

And you already know that pre-draft, I had even downgraded Allen's status to unknown, due to his lack of speed and injury concern.
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