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Old 04-14-2013   #21
Lurvinator11
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Can you do a top 5 worst pick for this team? The entire 07 draft class (except Jones) and 08 (except Brown) were busts.

5 worst individuals? Well:

1) David Carr
2) Charles Hill
3) Seth Wand
4) Bennie Joppru
5) DeVier Posey

Special mention: Antwaun Molden, Jason Babin, Travis Johnson, Amobi Okoye, Charles Spencer, and Vernand Morency.

I put Posey on there because he was out of football for the 2011 season, basically out until the end of last season, blows out his MCL, will be out next season. So 3 seasons of no football? This is the NFL, you can't do that. A waste of a 3rd round pick.

Top 5 Best:

1) JJ Watt
2) Andre Johnson
3) Brian Cushing
4) Duane Brown
5) Kareem Jackson

Honorable mention: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Danials.
The entire 05 class was a bust. I can't put Posey on the list, because he was making strides near the end of the season. Yeah, he got hurt, so maybe he will turn into a bust, but you can't make a decision on him yet.

I like how you put KJax in there. Like the confidence in him. Perhaps he can become a top 5 in the next couple of years.

I know a few of you have Carr in the top 5 worst picks. I honestly couldn't put him in the list, because there were points when he was getting better. I think Pencil Neck mentioned it in one thread, but he said something along the lines of, Carr was playing great in the 04 season, but then hit a wall. He was a young QB, with a terrible coaching staff. Yes he was a bust, just nowhere in the top 5 bust.
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Old 04-14-2013   #22
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Seems to me you need to distinguish between best and worst choice v. result. There was nothing wrong with the choice to draft Joppru but the result sucked.
If my memory is working Witten was largely thought of as a higer ranked prospect and there was a lot of 1st guessing if you were going to draft a TE then at least go Witten. Seems like a 2nd round TE was not thought of that highly then though.
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Old 04-14-2013   #23
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Seems to me you need to distinguish between best and worst choice v. result. There was nothing wrong with the choice to draft Joppru but the result sucked.
MSR

I agree that the Joppru pick is unfairly bashed as a poor (rather than unproductive) pick. No injury history, nothing to suggest his injuries weren't real, just a failure to have the opportunity to show his talents on an NFL level.

You never hear the same sentiments regarding Charles Spencer, yet their contributions to the Texans were near identical (2 games started for Spencer, 0 games started for Joppru).
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Old 04-14-2013   #24
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
If my memory is working Witten was largely thought of as a higer ranked prospect and there was a lot of 1st guessing if you were going to draft a TE then at least go Witten. Seems like a 2nd round TE was not thought of that highly then though.
They were a toss up with Witten being argued as having a higher ceiling but with character concerns. That kind of choice still doesn't strike me as epically bad. Being an expansion team and using a 3rd on a DLmen you cut without ever seeing the field, now that is an epically bad choice.
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Old 04-14-2013   #25
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

1. Rb Tony Hollings.

Drafted in the 2nd round of the supplemental draft, Hollings was a converted defensive back who played a limited number of college games as a rb (6 total if memory serves.) He was also comming off a broken leg. Based on draft slotting, draft projection (injury/college performance), and his production for the Texans, he gets top slotting from me.

2. Te Bennie Joppru.

Drafted in the 2nd round we never got anything from him because of injury after injury after injury. He was a myth. The only reason I dont slot him ahead of Hollings is he was regarded as a solid college te. There was more merit for his selection then Hollings. Casserly and company were unlucky with this pick because of injuries. They outsmarted themselves with Hollings.

3. Qb Dave Ragone

3rd round selection. Did he ever take a snap for the Texans? He was selected with Carr and Sage (or was it Banks) on the roster. He was picked because Casserly thought he could parlay Ragone into a 2nd round or 1st round selection down the road. Ragone was a luxury pick a playoff team gambles on. An expansion team desperate for more talent on the roster had no business picking him. Again the Texans outsmarted themselves here.

4. Olb Jason Babin

In a surprise move the Texans traded up into the first round and selected the bone chewing kid from western Michigan. He was sold to us as the next Kevin Green. Instead we got a guy who always had his back to the ball because all he knew how to do was an excruciatingly slow spin move. We did get some field production from Babin but it never lived up to his 1st round selection. Why do I rank him ahead of guys who performed arguably worse on the field you ask? Picking him cost us dearly with several picks when we needed talent the most. To magnify the problem we strengthened a division rival. Babin was a gamble we had to get right. We missed.

5. Dt Amobi Okoye

Lots of possible names could go here. We did get some production from him. He wins out as #5 on the worst list because he was picked higher then people like T Johnson, A Molden, or A Hill. We had high expectations for the brilliant youngster from Louisville. He had flashes his rookie season and then flat lined. He was one of the first big additions of the dismal frank bush era and the beginning of his downfall.

Post mortem:

Why isn't Carr on the list? Carr was a good college qb with great tools. You may recall the Texans were applauded by most nationally for taking Carr over Peppers. We all knew Peppers was going to be a monster but the Texans got a pass because quarterback is the most important position on the field...right? Things like "They're starting out the franchise right by getting the most talented qb available" were said by pundits everywhere. In hindsight we know Carr failed us. I think the Texans failed Carr just as much. I've said it before and it bares repeating - Carr was never going to be great, but he had a chance to be average. The bumbling idiots surrounding carr with bad talent and worse coaching sabotaged his career as much as Carr did.
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Old 04-14-2013   #26
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../htx/draft.htm

Worst to not so worst

1. David Carr was a 5th year Sr who had one monster year vs SMU , Rice , San Jose , Nevada , Utah State and so on . He stunk in the senior Bowl but he had nice white teeth and was good people . He and the cali mafia made the Texans hopeless .

2. Travis Johnson was drafted after the Texans traded back and letting Derrick Johnson and the OT Jamaal Brown go . The real killer though was letting one Aaron Rogers slip by because we had David Freakin Carr .

3. Amobi Okoye cause we let Patrick Willis go for this 19 year old undersized guy who really was to smart for football .

4. Tony Hollings was a 2nd round pick and a converted DB to RB . He sucked big time .

5. Jason Babin cause we traded a second, third, fourth, and fifth in exchange for a first (27th overall) and fifth round pick to the Titans to get him .

honorable mention is to Chuck Hill for getting cut as a 3rd round pick in training camp .
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Old 04-14-2013   #27
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
He was #2 on the original list.
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Originally Posted by Lurvinator11 View Post
Yeah, he was No.2 on my list. Had Joppru not been around, Johnson easily would have been number one.

My bad I missed that.
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Old 04-14-2013   #28
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

1. Boseli
2. Hollings
3. Hill
4. Okoye
5. Jopru
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Old 04-14-2013   #29
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I put Posey on there because he was out of football for the 2011 season, basically out until the end of last season, blows out his MCL, will be out next season. So 3 seasons of no football? This is the NFL, you can't do that. A waste of a 3rd round pick.
Posey was a rookie last season, WTF does him missing a season in college football matter at all to his NFL value? He played last season but because Kubes doesn't trust rookies he didn't get playing time until the end of the season. Plus,you have no clue if he will play this season or not, regardless, it'd be his freaking second year.
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Old 04-14-2013   #30
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Posey was a rookie last season, WTF does him missing a season in college football matter at all to his NFL value? He played last season but because Kubes doesn't trust rookies he didn't get playing time until the end of the season. Plus,you have no clue if he will play this season or not, regardless, it'd be his freaking second year.
I guess I have a freaking clue based on time to heal this injury, the impact of this type of injury to his position played, conditioning concerns, and it's the freaking NFL.

You are right, Kubes doesnt trust rookies. Just don't tell Cushing, Watt, Jackson, Brown, Slaton, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Barwin, Reed, etc. Those guys may get a little upset knowing they didnt get to play.

And I will reiterate, Posey missed an entire year of football didn't play most of this season, and will miss most if not all of next season. I can't miss 3 years at my job and expect to slide right back in and perform like a top 1% in my chosen profession.

Let him prove me wrong.

Oh and Charles Spencer says high.
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Old 04-14-2013   #31
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I guess I have a freaking clue based on time to heal this injury, the impact of this type of injury to his position played, conditioning concerns, and it's the freaking NFL.

You are right, Kubes doesnt trust rookies. Just don't tell Cushing, Watt, Jackson, Brown, Slaton, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Barwin, Reed, etc. Those guys may get a little upset knowing they didnt get to play.

And I will reiterate, Posey missed an entire year of football didn't play most of this season, and will miss most if not all of next season. I can't miss 3 years at my job and expect to slide right back in and perform like a top 1% in my chosen profession.

Let him prove me wrong.


Oh and Charles Spencer says high.
Are you even aware that 2012 was Posey's rookie season? He hasn't missed any time due to injury yet and when he finally got playing time he made plays including a TD catch in the playoffs. How does this make him a bust?
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Old 04-14-2013   #32
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

Also, just FYI, Posey did play for Ohio State in 2011 though I have no idea what that has to do with his NFL play. He tore his Achilles and isnt expected back until Week 8. Also, you named 2 whole rookies on offense that Kubes used.
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Old 04-14-2013   #33
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
He played last season but because Kubes doesn't trust rookies he didn't get playing time until the end of the season.
Or maybe in practice he didn't show what the coaches wanted.

Offensive rookie contributors/starters - Spencer, Winston, Daniels, JJ, Duane Brown, Slaton, etc.

Others have played as rookies as well and this is in the context of drafts which been defensively dominated. I'm not seeing the anti-rookie accusation.
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Old 04-14-2013   #34
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Or maybe in practice he didn't show what the coaches wanted.

Offensive rookie contributors/starters - Spencer, Winston, Daniels, JJ, Duane Brown, Slaton, etc.

Others have played as rookies as well and this is in the context of drafts which been defensively dominated. I'm not seeing the anti-rookie accusation.
I'm not even really worried about if Kubes is anti-rookie or not. All I'm saying is that calling Posey a monumental franchise bust because he might miss his second season due to injury is ridiculous.
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Old 04-14-2013   #35
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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I'm not even really worried about if Kubes is anti-rookie or not. All I'm saying is that calling Posey a monumental franchise bust because he might miss his second season due to injury is ridiculous.
I agree Posey is not a bust. Was only commenting on the Kubes and rookies issue.
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Old 04-14-2013   #36
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

1. HWMSNBM
2. OkOye
3.Joppru
4. Hollings
5. Spencer

Best

1. Watt
2. AJ
3. Cushing
4. OD
5. Ryans
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Old 04-14-2013   #37
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by TheIronDuke View Post
Also, just FYI, Posey did play for Ohio State in 2011 though I have no idea what that has to do with his NFL play. He tore his Achilles and isnt expected back until Week 8. Also, you named 2 whole rookies on offense that Kubes used.
Posey was suspended his last year at Ohio State for NCAA violations.

Assume he comes back week 8, in the middle of football season, he still won't play b/c he won't be in football shape. He starts the season on the PUP and depending on need at WR at that time of the year he may end the year on IR. I anticipate after this draft to have our WR position taken care of. KMart starts the season as our 2nd receiver, our first rounder is 3rd and a vet plus Jean to finish out the WR core.

My point is you can't take 3 years off and expect to play at a high level.

As far as only naming 2 offensive players since 2006 Kubes has only drafted 20 offensive players. Look who we drafted,

Kasey Studdard, Antoine Caldwell, Brandon Frye, Alex Brink, Anthony Hill, Shelley Smith, Dorin Dickerson, Garrett Graham, Trindon Holliday, Jacoby Jones, Wali Lundy, David Anderson, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston, Charles Spencer, Ben Tate, TJ Yates, Brandon Brooks, Ben Jones, Nick Mondek

Not exactly a glowing offensive draft.

I hope I am wrong about Posey. I wish him the best of luck. Maybe you are friends with Posey, show him this post, maybe it will motivate him to work harder. As it stands I would say he has less than a 5% chance of being anything more than a journeyman WR in the NFL.
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Old 04-14-2013   #38
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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I guess I have a freaking clue based on time to heal this injury, the impact of this type of injury to his position played, conditioning concerns, and it's the freaking NFL.
You are wrong on the injury. As The Iron Duke eluded to earlier, Posey has a torn achilles. That's a much worse injury for a WR than a torn MCL. If it's bad enough he may never fully recover and could lose his speed, his explosion, or his jumping ability. I can't classify him as a bust yet. We have to wait and see what happens, but rather doubt we'll see him this coming season.
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Old 04-14-2013   #39
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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You are wrong on the injury. As The Iron Duke eluded to earlier, Posey has a torn achilles. That's a much worse injury for a WR than a torn MCL. If it's bad enough he may never fully recover and could lose his speed, his explosion, or his jumping ability. I can't classify him as a bust yet. We have to wait and see what happens, but rather doubt we'll see him this coming season.
I don't consider a guy that got hurt a bust , that's bad luck . Of course if you want to say that we drafted Joppru instead of Witten , that's an arguement .
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Old 04-14-2013   #40
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Location: Challis, ID
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
On Jason Babin - I maintained at the time that Casserly properly identified a talent there. But trading away picks to move up and grab him, then misusing him for four years, was the biggest part of the problem. Babin had somewhat questionable character as well. But he did go on to have a couple great seasons that showed what he had the talent to do - 30 or so sacks in two seasons. That the Texans never developed and/or utilized that talent was just one more failure of a terrible HC/GM tandem.
Unless you consider tattoos a character issue, can't imagine what you are talking about because Babin was without negative character issues as far as anybody knew. For example, by all reports he was a devoted family man.
Trading away picks ? Maybe you thought Casserly overpaid for the 27th overall, but don't know what that's got to do with Babin being a bad pick. Misusing him or not coaching him correctly ? What's that got to do with him being a bad pick ?
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