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Old 04-07-2013   #21
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If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.
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Old 04-07-2013   #22
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by pirbroke View Post
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.
The Andy Reid theory on QB's.
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Old 04-07-2013   #23
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The Andy Reid theory on QB's.
By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.
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Old 04-07-2013   #24
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.
Hmmmm... let's check this out.

Reid's first year was 99. Here are the QBs he selected in drafts.

1999. Donovan McNabb - 1st round/2nd overall
2001. AJ Feely - 5th round/155
2004. Andy Hall - 6th round/185
2007. Kevin Kolb - 2nd round/36
2010. Mike Kafka - 4th round /122
2012. Nick Foles - 3rd round/88

I'm not seeing any huge pattern there unless he was going to draft his next QB in the 7th round.
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Old 04-07-2013   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Hmmmm... let's check this out.

Reid's first year was 99. Here are the QBs he selected in drafts.

1999. Donovan McNabb - 1st round/2nd overall
2001. AJ Feely - 5th round/155
2004. Andy Hall - 6th round/185
2007. Kevin Kolb - 2nd round/36
2010. Mike Kafka - 4th round /122
2012. Nick Foles - 3rd round/88

I'm not seeing any huge pattern there unless he was going to draft his next QB in the 7th round.
So, the only QB he selected in the first round was an all pro. The only ones he took in the first two round were starters. Sure beats the hell out of David Carr number one overall. He might not have found late round gems, but that'd be a decent average for a GM.

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Old 04-07-2013   #26
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Tony Banks for a year?
We would have won more games. Might have jacked up our draft position the next year and cost us Andre Johnson though.

I love "What if?" conversations but the further you get from the moment you change the more chance that change has to damage something that you wouldn't want to change.

But even if we took Carr (and there's no good reason to take him over Peppers) Banks should have started in 2002. That's all on that regime. At least McNair has the excuse of being ignorant at that point. Casserly/Capers/Palmer all should have known better.
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Old 04-07-2013   #27
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
But even if we took Carr (and there's no good reason to take him over Peppers) Banks should have started in 2002. That's all on that regime. At least McNair has the excuse of being ignorant at that point. Casserly/Capers/Palmer all should have known better.
How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.
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Old 04-07-2013   #28
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.
I was talking about Reid drafting a QB for the future when he already had his starter. Feely/Kolb and Foles are examples. Then when Vick/McNabb etc... get injured the backup steps in usually plays well for a few games and gets moved for a high draft pick.

Reid always has 2 above avg QB's on his roster. See Kansas City Traded for Alex Smith and signed Chase Daniel in FA. He prioritizes the QB position, which is quite smart. IMHO

BTW, I was kind of hoping the Texans would sign Daniels in FA. He has alot of potential.
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Old 04-07-2013   #29
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
BTW, I was kind of hoping the Texans would sign Daniels in FA. He has alot of potential.
Gary Kubiak, QB guru, should be able to draft and develop guys without paying good money to so-so backups (see: Orlovsky, Dan).
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Old 04-07-2013   #30
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by pirbroke View Post
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.
This would never work, because you would not be trying to find a great QB, and would then accidentally land a Tom Brady on your first attempt. Life is wacky.
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Old 04-07-2013   #31
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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I think Carr would have stayed around.
No way Carr would have stayed. He was most definitely in no position to be starting for an NFL team.

I think we would have stayed with Sage & drafted the likes of John Beck, Brian Brohm, or Chad Henne. We may have taken a flyer as well on guys like Tyler Thigpen, Stephen McGee, & Joe Webb.

These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.
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Old 04-07-2013   #32
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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No way Carr would have stayed. He was most definitely in no position to be starting for an NFL team.

I think we would have stayed with Sage & drafted the likes of John Beck, Brian Brohm, or Chad Henne. We may have taken a flyer as well on guys like Tyler Thigpen, Stephen McGee, & Joe Webb.

These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.
Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?

6 QB's, 10 teams, 15382 yds, 70 TD's, 76 INT's

Schaub - 20911 yds, 114 TD's, 64 INT's
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Old 04-07-2013   #33
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?
Some of them aren't even in the league anymore.
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Old 04-07-2013   #34
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by pirbroke View Post
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line.
If it were that easy, you & I wouldn't be working for a living.


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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.
Not to mention as a rookie, he looked the part. David's problems didn't start till later.


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Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?

6 QB's, 10 teams, 15382 yds, 70 TD's, 76 INT's

Schaub - 20911 yds, 114 TD's, 64 INT's
When I said "we" I meant we as Texans' fans, not Matt Schaub fans. We probably wouldn't have gaudy QB numbers for mental masturbation, but we'd have probably missed the play-offs just the same through 2010.

Then again, this is a system & Kubiak is a QB Guru. One of those guys may have very well thrived here & Schaub may not have done so well with GangGreen.... who knows?
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Old 04-07-2013   #35
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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When I said "we" I meant we as Texans' fans, not Matt Schaub fans.
Here I took we to mean the Texans. Given the ample opportunities of the players you mentioned and their pitiful results I see zero support for your assertion.

Quote:
We probably wouldn't have gaudy QB numbers for mental masturbation, but we'd have probably missed the play-offs just the same through 2010.
What kind of goofiness is this? We could have started a UDFA through 2010 and likely missed the play-offs each year. Doesn't make the QB performance the same.

Quote:
Then again, this is a system ...
This has to be one of the most trite and irrelevant statements around. EVERY NFL team has a system. ALL 32 teams are a system.
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Old 04-07-2013   #36
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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What kind of goofiness is this? We could have started a UDFA through 2010 and likely missed the play-offs each year. Doesn't make the QB performance the same.
Y'know, for a lawyer, your reading comprehension skills are sub-par. I didn't say anything about QB performance.

I said we could have gone through a half dozen QB prospects trying to find a good one & this team would have been just as successful. Missing the play-offs through the first 4 years of Kubiak, 3 years of Schaub & a whole lot of baby steps.

I'd love to have seen Chad Henne develop under Kubiak, in Kubiak's system. He's doing pretty good with a revolving door of coaches, schemes, targets.... the kids a player. I'd have loved to have seen Skelton here, or Kolb, or yes.... Tyler Thigpen.

None of those guys would probably be able to do what Schaub has. I never said otherwise. But what they lack in wit, they'd have made up in athleticism.
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Old 04-07-2013   #37
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Y'know, for a lawyer, your reading comprehension skills are sub-par. I didn't say anything about QB performance.
Try re-reading the first clause of your sentence I quoted.

Treating "just as successful" = anything short of "missing the playoffs" is ridiculous.
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Old 04-07-2013   #38
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

We would have picked up Favre in 2008
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Old 04-07-2013   #39
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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We would have picked up Favre in 2008
Mike Florio, everybody give him a big hand.

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Old 04-07-2013   #40
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

MSR that was awesome
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