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Old 07-01-2004   #21
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Chiefs | Johnson Contract Breakdown - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:40:57 -0700

Updating previous reports, ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports the seven-year deal Kansas City Chiefs RB Larry Johnson received is worth $8.847 million, including a $3.31 million signing bonus.

If certain playing time benchmarks are achieved, Johnson's deal will void down to a five-year, $6.7 million deal. He'll have base salaries of $452,000 (2003), $515,000 (2004), $628,000 (2005), $741,000 (2006), $854,000 (2007), $967,000 (2008) and $1.08 million (2009) and there are workout bonuses of $50,000 each for 2004 through 2009.

Babin base salaries from NFLPA (it's been out there for several days already):

2004 $456,003
2005 $1,038,503
2006 $432,503
2007 $584,003
2008 $735,503
2009 $887,003

I read where his bonus was around $3.8 million, which would make his total deal 6 years $7.93 million as compared to Johnson's 7 years $8.85 million. Babin's second year base is $500,000 more than Johnson's but Babin's 3rd through 6th year bases are a combined $500,000 less than Johnson's.

I'm not sure I see the problem unless it's in the bonus somewhere.

Last edited by aj.; 07-01-2004 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 07-01-2004   #22
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What I got from that article is that we cannot pay one of our first round picks what we want to pay him because we are supposed to keep all of the other teams in the NFL happy... If we have the money we can pay our picks whatever we want to pay them...
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Old 07-01-2004   #23
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Well, there is a "scale" of sorts and you don't want to go too crazy. Bases rise in the agreement by a certain amount per year and I'm sure there's a "code" for year to year increases in bonus. Draft pick money is controlled by a rookie pool so it's not like you can go crazy and throw everything at one guy otherwise you wouldn't have anything left for the others. This type of stuff usually happens every year after the first pick of the first round is signed. It causes agents and teams to go back and recalibrate but I don't think this was as bad as they are making it sound.
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Old 07-01-2004   #24
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Quote:
There are still Texans fans which are questioning the numbers $$$ that were thrown at Babin.
I find that odd since aj's information is the very first time I have seen any actual dollar amounts.

Quote:
Babin's official numbers have not yet been reported. We're trying to get them -- but we can't find any agents who'll give us their password for the NFLPA computer system.
This says even the folks from the story had no idea what the numbers were so how could there be an uproar among Texans' fans?--and that weren't expressing it here?
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Old 07-01-2004   #25
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profootballtalk.com is a pure gossip rag. I don't take much of their stuff seriously.

Good to see you around Cloak.
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Old 07-02-2004   #26
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Thanks for the compensation info on Babin & Johnson AJ. But I'm wondering,
why can't the NFL just use a "present value" formula to calculate the
real or true economic value of these contracts in todays terms for us fans instead of listing out that series of salary payments 7, 8 years into the future ?
That way we could really make a comparison of the compensation Babin and
Johnton get.
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Old 07-02-2004   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
Babin base salaries from NFLPA (it's been out there for several days already):

2004 $456,003
2005 $1,038,503
2006 $432,503
2007 $584,003
2008 $735,503
2009 $887,003
You switched the years for those base salaries. The NFLPA site lists the salaries in that order, but they are for the years 2004, 2009, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008, in order. So if you put them in order by year, it would look like this --

2004 $456,003
2005 $432,503
2006 $584,003
2007 $735,503
2008 $887,003
2009 $1,038,503

Babin couldn't have a base salary of $1,038,503 for 2005, because that would violate the 25-percent rule.


Quote:
I read where his bonus was around $3.8 million
Babin got a $2.2 million signing bonus, a $1.275 million option bonus due next year, a $150,000 roster bonus this season, $382,480 in workout bonuses from 2005-2009 and $395,000 in NLTBE incentives ($170,000 this season and $45,000 in each of the other seasons). He also has an escalator up to $2.2 million in 2008, and the 2009 season is voidable.

His cap numbers --

2004 $972,669
2005 $1,130,329
2006 $1,281,829
2007 $1,433,889
2008 $1,585,389
2009 $1,736,893

Babin's combined bonuses (signing, roster, option) total $3.625, which is 9.5 percent higher than Johnson's $3.31. But his first-year cap number is only 5.2 percent higher than Johnson's was, which shouldn't keep any other teams from managing the rookie pool if Babin's contract sets the market for picks at the bottom of the first round.
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Old 07-04-2004   #28
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Quote:
There are still Texans fans which are questioning the numbers $$$ that were thrown at Babin.


I find that odd since aj's information is the very first time I have seen any actual dollar amounts.

Quote:
Babin's official numbers have not yet been reported. We're trying to get them -- but we can't find any agents who'll give us their password for the NFLPA computer system.


This says even the folks from the story had no idea what the numbers were so how could there be an uproar among Texans' fans?--and that weren't expressing it here?

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I may not have made myself clear, but by "numbers" I was meaning to refer not only to the dollars involved but to the steep trade which led to his acquisition...............To move into Tennessee's No. 27 spot in the first round, the Texans traded second-, third-, fourth- and fifth-round picks to the Titans....................There are still a good number of Texans fans that are questioning the package involved........and this will not be resolved until Babin has proven himself as a diamond or bust.
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Old 07-04-2004   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger
To move into Tennessee's No. 27 spot in the first round, the Texans traded second-, third-, fourth- and fifth-round picks to the Titans....................There are still a good number of Texans fans that are questioning the package involved........and this will not be resolved until Babin has proven himself as a diamond or bust.
I don't see too high a price, and I think pft.com is just reacting to the early, early reaction. Babin gave us two first round picks so he is a push with the 2nd round pick we traded. The off-set was really just one first day pick (3rd round) and a couple of second day selections. One of those second day picks started out as a 5th rounder didn't it? Giving away a 3rd round pick for a guy you project to start and build around as an OLB in a 3-4 defense isn't such a grand price to me. That was the reason Casserly was stockpiling picks; to move up when he had the "right guy". It all comes out in the wash soon though.
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Old 07-04-2004   #30
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-babin isnt just a superior physical talent...he's also a high character guy wich is hard to find.

-based on what we did in the draft its obvious the texans had high rankings on upper echelon players and late round guys. seems to me they were not impressed with many of the mid draft prospects---hence the trade forward and trading back for additional late round picks.

-we didnt give up anything in next years draft wich i think is an indirect bonus. its harder to evaluate those players. this year we had tabs on everybody and obviously we'rent impressed with mid level players.

-we didnt get a player or 3 with questionable talent who MIGHT compete for a starting jobs this year or next. the texans went after someone who would make an impact in as short a time as possible. with the depth we finally have, do we want to pin our hopes on players who will more then likely be depth for a couple of seasons before they even compete for a starting job?

-a quality 3-4 olb/de to fit our system is hard to find to begin with. let alone one with babin's potential and character. and as i've emphatically insisted in another post olb may be the most crucial position in our defense.

-we had to pay a division rival to get the player we wanted. did you expect that to come cheaply?

-if your at this site your probably a hardcore fan. if your the average joe or even a free agent, 2 first round selections grabs your attention. how many average fans pay real attention to mr. irrelevant? this move catches your attention...and probably helps the recruiting process in free agency. this move proves in big bold letters if our managment wants you they'll do what it takes to get their man. the rest of the nfl took notice. our managment is proactive.

-as an additional bonus obviously money wasnt an issue. thats gotta count for something.

right or wrong, initially i thought we overpaid to. but realistically what kind of impact was a 3rd or 4th round pick going to have on this season? babin will have an impact. good or bad thats a gaurante.
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Old 07-04-2004   #31
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I have a good feeling about Babin. Of course it could just be a gas bubble, but something tells me he will be the real deal. I look for a reasonably solid rooky season and then in 05 I look for him to make his mark.
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