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HOU intrested in FA OLB Dumervil

If Smith could somehow convince both Dumerville and Reed to sign on the dotted lines it do much towards some people believing in his ability. This is a scenario that would legitimize the seriousness of this front office in noticing the window and pulling the trigger.

No one expects it, other GM's among last years playoff teams are making their squads noticeably better and making HUGE splashes - this is Smith's chance to show he belongs.

These two guys on a defense with Watt,JJo,KJax and Cush is downright nasty.

I dont care how much of Bobby Mac's money gets spent on a "luxury tax" (scary) if it brings a motherlovin' Lombardi trophy to this city. Show us you mean buisness, you guys have made a killing with this team in the 10 years you have had it, spend a little. Whatever the luxury tax is if anyone can afford it, Robert McNair can. Sixth (or so) most valuable franchise in ALL OF SPORTS according to Forbe's isnt it?
 
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.
 
Uncle Rico said:
If Smith could somehow convince both Dumerville and Reed to sign on the dotted lines it do much towards some people believing in his ability. This is a scenario that would legitimize the seriousness of this front office in noticing the window and pulling the trigger.

No one expects it, other GM's among last years playoff teams are making their squads noticeably better and making HUGE splashes - this is Smith's chance to show he belongs.

These two guys on a defense with Watt,JJo,KJax and Cush is downright nasty.

I dont care how much of Bobby Mac's money gets spent on a "luxury tax" (scary) if it brings a motherlovin' Lombardi trophy to this city. Show us you mean buisness, you guys have made a killing with this team in the 10 years you have had it, spend a little. Whatever the luxury tax is if anyone can afford it, Robert McNair can. Sixth (or so) most valuable franchise in ALL OF SPORTS according to Forbe's isnt it?
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You know, that sounds nice but this team got remarkably better and only added two "splashes". Prior to JJoe Smith was the biggest FA we had ever signed. Draft well, keep drafting well and get RID of your players when their prices extend beyond their usefulness. See the Pats and Pitt.

Mike
 
Uncle Rico said:
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.
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That was a one time deal in the "uncapped year." Ordinarily the NFL has a hard cap. Dutchrudder can explain it in full detail (he has recently so you might search his posts) but it wasn't a luxury tax so much as a penalty.

the wonger need food said:
Where have these reports surfaced? If that can't afford to give Reed $6M they won't be able to give Elvis the $10M+ he'll likely be looking for.
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Nobody has said the Texans can't afford to give Reed $6 mil. In addition folks continue to confuse average over the life of a contract with cap hit. Miami has signed like 7 players to over $120 mil in contracts and only $12.5 or so will be on this year's cap. Contracts almost never hit the cap evenly according to the average.

Also the highest paid pass rusher this year has gotten a contract averaging $7.5 mil.
 
Appreciate the passion, but there's a little thing called the Salary Cap and no such thing as a luxury tax. Dallas and Washington were essentially fined for not colluding with the other owners during the "uncapped" season. The salary cap is essentially a hard number that salaries must remain under.
 
Okay. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

Depresses me more about Rick Smith's ability. Thanks!
 
Yeah, I think we all have a rough understanding of cap numbers v. actual dollars a player is paid. My point was more a statement to the Texans reluctance to pay anyone at this point. I'm sure there's a plan in place but it seems like they're content with filling the holes with rookies and maybe some vet minimum guys.
 
"Elvis Dumervil is free to test the market, shop around and try finding a team that will make a better multi-year commitment to him than the Denver Broncos were proposing before they cut him.

But Dumervil would prefer to skip all of that and return to the team that drafted him."



"The person, who spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because Dumervil hasn't publicly spoken about his release, said Dumervil's firing his agent, Marty Magid, on Saturday was motivated by his desire to patch up the situation with the Broncos."



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...d-like-to-remain-with-denver-broncos/1993441/
 
It's not all bad... they have essentially zero dead money against the cap this year.

And Chris Olsen negotiates the contracts so he would deserve most of the blame with regards to how certain contracts are structured. I do believe that Smith is overrated as a GM however. 2 playoff wins in 7 seasons is nothing to get excited about unless you're a Cowboy fan.
 
the wonger need food said:
Appreciate the passion, but there's a little thing called the Salary Cap and no such thing as a luxury tax. Dallas and Washington were essentially fined for not colluding with the other owners during the "uncapped" season. The salary cap is essentially a hard number that salaries must remain under.
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Those two teams also forfeited a variety of draft picks...not just a monetary fine, IIRC.

This FO can ask guys to re-structure. They might get Reed or Dumerville, but I don't see them able to get both of them.
 
He was willing to do basically 1yr for 8m with denver. The texans could offer a deal that avg 7m,but with more g-money. 5yr 35m with 17m g. They could give him 3.5m bonus this yr and a 2m salary. The rest would be in incentives. They could then cut antonio smith and his 6.5m salary.
 
the wonger need food said:
Appreciate the passion, but there's a little thing called the Salary Cap and no such thing as a luxury tax. Dallas and Washington were essentially fined for not colluding with the other owners during the "uncapped" season. The salary cap is essentially a hard number that salaries must remain under.
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That's all well and good but if the front office is creative and if other players are willing, they could make it happen. There are all sorts of ways to structure deals and restructure deals to make things happen and stay under the cap.

People act like we're in some sort of cap hell and we're not. We're in more of a cap limbo. There are lots of teams in worse position than we are.

I seriously doubt there's any way that Dumervil is going to come here. But I expect our FO to at least explore the possibility. And if they're good and if Dumervil is interested, they'll find a way to make it happen.

Too bad Dumervil didn't go to the U.
 
leebigeztx said:
He was willing to do basically 1yr for 8m with denver. The texans could offer a deal that avg 7m,but with more g-money. 5yr 35m with 17m g. They could give him 3.5m bonus this yr and a 2m salary. The rest would be in incentives. They could then cut antonio smith and his 6.5m salary.
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I think Antonio's cap number is close to $10M this year and cutting him isn't really an option. Maybe restructure/extend him for 2 years?
 
the wonger need food said:
I think Antonio's cap number is close to $10M this year and cutting him isn't really an option. Maybe restructure/extend him for 2 years?
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They could cut antonio and save 4.5m. His salary is 6+m. And his bonus is like 2.75m. They would have the bonus as dead money for 2 yrs unless he's in the last yr. His salary is non guaranteed.

I
 
the wonger need food said:
I think Antonio's cap number is close to $10M this year and cutting him isn't really an option. Maybe restructure/extend him for 2 years?
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Antonio's cap is $9.5. This is the last year of his contract and he could be cut with 6 mil in savings and $3.5 in dead money. Better would be to extend him 2 years with something like:

$1 mil, $3 mil and $4 mil in base salaries with an $8.5 mil signing bonus, i.e. he gets everything promised this year and an extension.

His cap hit would go to $3.83 for a savings of almost 6 mil. Same savings as cutting him and keep the player.

leebigeztx said:
They could cut antonio and save 4.5m. His salary is 6+m. And his bonus is like 2.75m. They would have the bonus as dead money for 2 yrs unless he's in the last yr. His salary is non guaranteed.
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Please see above. You clearly just don't like Smith wanting to cut him in every thread. My proposal makes much more sense for the team.
 
Uncle Rico said:
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.
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So...what happens if a team goes over the Salary Cap?

Answer: The short answer is simply that NO team CAN go over the Salary Cap. Note that every contract must go through the NFL League Office before the deal can be made official. Presumably, one of the things the league must do at this time is determine whether or not the contract would violate the NFL's Salary Cap. If the deal does violate the cap, then the NFL will reject it.

If a team releases or trades a player and the signing bonus acceleration puts a team over the Salary Cap, the team will have seven days to conform with the Salary Cap. However, they may not sign any players until there is room to do so under the Salary Cap.

There have been instances in which a team has managed to sneak a cap evading contract by the league. Upon further review, the violations were caught by the league and the respective teams were penalized. Penalties include fines and/or forfeiture of draft picks. In recent history both the Pittsburgh Steelers and San Francisco 49ers have been penalized draft picks, while the 49ers' front office personnel (Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark) were also fined.
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http://www.askthecommish.com/SalaryCap/faq.aspx
 
Texans can draft a rookie OLB in the first and get him signed for under 2 million per season (see Mercilus' contract). I doubt they'd offer more than 5 million per season, and I'm sure they're aware how poorly Dumervil plays the run.
 
signing Dumervil would be akin to signing both Manning & Joseph. Elvis has elite first step unlike Barwin. He has ability to create turnovers without sacrificing assignment dedication. Plus it's hell of a lot easier to find replacement for Quin than a Mario. This is a great year for young stud safeties via the draft, not so much for edge rushers.
 
Crazy thing is a writer once had an article about trading Mario for Dumerville and everyone thought he was crazy.
 
This could be a feint by the Texans, too.

1. Make some other team overpay for Dumerville

2. Maybe tempts Team Ed Reed to get our deal done out of fear that we'll jump to Dumerville if things drag out too long.

The questions to be answered are:

A.) Will we go after a singular "star" player, or

B.) Try to spread the salary around by going after two players of good, but not "great" player, or

C.) Do nothing and see if anybody else gets released that we catch on the rebound due to a team signing any of the higher priced FA's

Plus, what position do we end up addressing?

Intriguing moments here. This has been a fun free agency, tbh. Much to talk about with a lot of teams and players making moves on a large quantity of players.
 
Texans lacked pass rush even with Barwin. Now that Barwin is gone pass rush is even more important. Sign Dumervil & Texans actually upgrade pass rush. Sign a 1st or 2nd rd safety & there is a good possibility Texans can upgrade there as well. In other words Rick, take the money you would have needed to sign both Barwin & Quin to ink Elvis Dumervil. Simple math even beerlover can do it :wesmantexanfan:
 
If you can get him, you do whatever you have to in order to get under the cap. with 5 million in dead money, the Broncos cannot pay him what we can. If he is at all willing to come here, you get it done.
 
Who needs a FS when you got Dumervil? No need to defend a pass that is never thrown. Mercilus/Dumervil @ OLB with Cushing/Reed ILB? Championship! No sarcasm this time.
 
GP said:
This could be a feint by the Texans, too.

1. Make some other team overpay for Dumerville

2. Maybe tempts Team Ed Reed to get our deal done out of fear that we'll jump to Dumerville if things drag out too long.

The questions to be answered are:

A.) Will we go after a singular "star" player, or

B.) Try to spread the salary around by going after two players of good, but not "great" player, or

C.) Do nothing and see if anybody else gets released that we catch on the rebound due to a team signing any of the higher priced FA's

Plus, what position do we end up addressing?

Intriguing moments here. This has been a fun free agency, tbh. Much to talk about with a lot of teams and players making moves on a large quantity of players.
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You give this FO way too much credit. Secondly, this is not the type of team that goes after high profile guys even if it's a area of need. The only reason why we ever pursued and signed JJo and Manning was because we were historically bad and it finally went through their heads that there's something amiss here and we should actually do something for a change!
 
TEXANRED said:
Who needs a FS when you got Dumervil? No need to defend a pass that is never thrown. Mercilus/Dumervil @ OLB with Cushing/Reed ILB? Championship! No sarcasm this time.
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Mercilus and Dumervil on the edge is good against the pass, but it scares me against the run. And I want to see Reed play ILB before I anoint him as our ILB savior.
 
leebigeztx said:
He was willing to do basically 1yr for 8m with denver. The texans could offer a deal that avg 7m,but with more g-money. 5yr 35m with 17m g. They could give him 3.5m bonus this yr and a 2m salary. The rest would be in incentives. They could then cut antonio smith and his 6.5m salary.
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It can be done
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Mercilus and Dumervil on the edge is good against the pass, but it scares me against the run. And I want to see Reed play ILB before I anoint him as our ILB savior.
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I don't think a defense of Watt, Smith, Dumervil, and Mercilus would give the offense an opportunity to be in running downs. Besides, Cushing and Reed play the run well enough to be effective.

Just a Madden dream anyway.
 
Dumervil will go back to Denver. He had a contract worked out already. A technical invalidation is no reason for him to leave home.
 
Brisco_County said:
Dumervil will go back to Denver. He had a contract worked out already. A technical invalidation is no reason for him to leave home.
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There is a huge reason why that won't work out unless Denver wants to sign him to a new multi year deal. Denver now has just under $5 mil in dead money and only wanted to pay Dumervil $8 mil. You think Dumervil is going to play for $3 mil when he can get a lot more elsewhere?
 
infantrycak said:
Antonio's cap is $9.5. This is the last year of his contract and he could be cut with 6 mil in savings and $3.5 in dead money. Better would be to extend him 2 years with something like:

$1 mil, $3 mil and $4 mil in base salaries with an $8.5 mil signing bonus, i.e. he gets everything promised this year and an extension.

His cap hit would go to $3.83 for a savings of almost 6 mil. Same savings as cutting him and keep the player.



Please see above. You clearly just don't like Smith wanting to cut him in every thread. My proposal makes much more sense for the team.
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Or maybe I watched teams (pats,colts,packers) block watt and work the secondary like old main st. JJ had what, half the teams sacks? Antonio is a solid player, dummerville is a all pro,pro bowl caliber player. Not only that,he's younger and he knocks the qb down. He improves your secondary big time. You take smith money and give it to the better player.
 
Nawzer said:
You give this FO way too much credit. Secondly, this is not the type of team that goes after high profile guys even if it's a area of need. The only reason why we ever pursued and signed JJo and Manning was because we were historically bad and it finally went through their heads that there's something amiss here and we should actually do something for a change!
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No, you guys think that because we never hear the inside details of our FO's plans and how the FA system has a million moving, fluid parts to it, then it must mean the FO are boobs.

Seriously, once again you're proving my point: Fans don't know what goes on in a FO leading up to the FA period and even during the FA period.

Just because something doesn't go the way you think it should go, it doesn't mean the FO screwed the pooch.

To you, the FO gets players by blind luck and misses out on the player they really wanted. Sure, our primary target was Aso but there was a Plan B and the FO switched gears. Still have to give credit to the FO for not being stubborn like the HC has proven to be his whole time here. That's why Rick > Gary...one guy has ability to adjust, the other doesn't.
 
Fuq yeah!

That's what I'm talking about. A real damn edge rusher. If we get dummervile I'd be ridiculously pleased. Leave reed on the strong side.
 
Uncle Rico said:
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.
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There is no going over the salary cap in the NFL like the NBA where you have the soft cap and luxury tax. The NFL's cap is a hard cap.

There are two dates - one around training camp which your top 45 (I believe thats the number) salaries must fit under the cap and the final cut off date where your entire 53 man roster has to fit under the cap.


The uncapped year is what Dallas and Washington were penalized for. That uncapped year wasnt really uncapped from what I understand.


Cak is right , search Dutchrudder's post history .... He can answer these questions with more clarity. I understand them , just have a hard time explaining it all , remembering dates and numbers. But the bottom line is : There is no luxury tax! There is no exceeding the cap!
 
the wonger need food said:
Or move Reed inside and rotate him with Mercilus/Dumervil in the nickel/dime package.
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Im really wondering what the nickle front looks like going forward , last year we saw a lot of Ninja and Watt inside of Barwin and Reed at the ends.

If Reed moved inside they could have Dumervil and Mercilus outside on passing downs and a rotation of the three as ends on passing downs .... and have Braman for depth.

Still leaves a pretty big hole in the middle of the DL in the three man front and .... a glaring hole in the ass end.
Ive heard rumor that they intend to play Mitchell at the nose with Crick as his primary backup. I have no source to link to so take it for what its worth.

Dumervil and a veteran safety and the defense might just be ok .... tho you'd have to add some depth at DE , ILB and OLB as one injury could make a mess of the whole thing.
 
the wonger need food said:
Or move Reed inside and rotate him with Mercilus/Dumervil in the nickel/dime package.
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of merciless starting and I don't lime reed at ilb full time. I'd rather have barett Ruud at ilb and have reed holding down the solb spot. Reed is not a great pass rusher but he is really good in the flats in pass coverage and hes really good setting the edge against the run. Solb is the perfect spot for him IMO.
 
infantrycak said:
There is a huge reason why that won't work out unless Denver wants to sign him to a new multi year deal. Denver now has just under $5 mil in dead money and only wanted to pay Dumervil $8 mil. You think Dumervil is going to play for $3 mil when he can get a lot more elsewhere?
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A multi year deal will work as long as the guaranteed money is satisfactory. The guaranteed would be the selling point anyway for a guy with injury history.

Edit: Ok, I just re-read the details. He was willing to take a cut, but now the cut is impossible. Holy crap, what a screw up.
 
Rey said:
Yeah, I'm not a fan of merciless starting and I don't lime reed at ilb full time. I'd rather have barett Ruud at ilb and have reed holding down the solb spot. Reed is not a great pass rusher but he is really good in the flats in pass coverage and hes really good setting the edge against the run. Solb is the perfect spot for him IMO.
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Agree I don't think rid gets enough credit but he played pretty damn good for us last year. Cushing and ruud inside and reed and Whitney/draft on the outside.

Rudd was also pretty good in coverage I hope they give him a shot beside cushing
 
GP said:
No, you guys think that because we never hear the inside details of our FO's plans and how the FA system has a million moving, fluid parts to it, then it must mean the FO are boobs.

Seriously, once again you're proving my point: Fans don't know what goes on in a FO leading up to the FA period and even during the FA period.

Just because something doesn't go the way you think it should go, it doesn't mean the FO screwed the pooch.

To you, the FO gets players by blind luck and misses out on the player they really wanted. Sure, our primary target was Aso but there was a Plan B and the FO switched gears. Still have to give credit to the FO for not being stubborn like the HC has proven to be his whole time here. That's why Rick > Gary...one guy has ability to adjust, the other doesn't.
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Not convinced. This FO has made some good moves no doubt with signing JJo and Manning and then drafting guys like Cushing and Watt. My point was, and I think you missed it, was that this FO is not known for making bold moves. As I said before, it took a historically bad season for them to realize that we need some new talent on defense. We have a need at another quality pass rusher out there and if it means overpaying for a guy like Dumervil then so be it. This defense absolutely needs a great pass rush to succeed and it would somewhat negate the need to sign a high priced safety.
 
Nawzer said:
Not convinced. This FO has made some good moves no doubt with signing JJo and Manning and then drafting guys like Cushing and Watt. My point was, and I think you missed it, was that this FO is not known for making bold moves. As I said before, it took a historically bad season for them to realize that we need some new talent on defense. We have a need at another quality pass rusher out there and if it means overpaying for a guy like Dumervil then so be it. This defense absolutely needs a great pass rush to succeed and it would somewhat negate the need to sign a high priced safety.
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The bolded why I'm on board with making Dumervil the only FA I would pay above market value for. This defense needs a real pass rushing threat on the outside.
 
michaelm said:
The bolded why I'm on board with making Dumervil the only FA I would pay above market value for. This defense needs a real pass rushing threat on the outside.
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Unfortunately, I think most of us know that the Texans aren't going to be the team that does that. We'll see whether that's a good thing or a bad thing in about 6 months.
 
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