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Old 03-06-2013   #21
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I don't know how much pressure Winston gave up, but the combo of Harris and Newton combined to allow the same number of sacks as Winston (but with one fewer penalty.) That with Newton playing hurt or less than 100% for awhile and Winston was averaging 7.5 sacks allowed the previous two years.
It's not just the sack numbers. Schaub's QB rating and yards per attempt were down in 2012 from 2011. He became uncomfortable in the pocket and was less willing to look downfield. Not suggesting the Texans go after Winston. Just that Newton/Harris were a downgrade.
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Old 03-06-2013   #22
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
It's not just the sack numbers. Schaub's QB rating and yards per attempt were down in 2012 from 2011. He became uncomfortable in the pocket and was less willing to look downfield. Not suggesting the Texans go after Winston. Just that Newton/Harris were a downgrade.
Playing better defenses than the previous year (IMO) makes it worse.
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Old 03-06-2013   #23
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

Winston only gave up 3 sacks last year for KC. One of the best in the league.
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Old 03-06-2013   #24
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
I don't see how any of the parties involved could compromise enough to make it work.
I have a strong feeling money will keep him from ever having a chance to talk to the Texans. There's enough teams with a need at RT, and cap room that I think he'll find a new home quickly - probably before the UFA signing period begins.

Miami and St. Louis are two potential landing spots that come to mind quickly. I'm not sure exactly where St. Louis is cap-wise, but they have a need and were interested in Winston last year.
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Old 03-06-2013   #25
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I don't know how much pressure Winston gave up, but the combo of Harris and Newton combined to allow the same number of sacks as Winston (but with one fewer penalty.) That with Newton playing hurt or less than 100% for awhile and Winston was averaging 7.5 sacks allowed the previous two years.

The only thing we can say for sure is that Winston was the better run blocker; but Newton and Harris didn't have much time to gel with the rest of the O-line, which never had continuity to start with - having 3 different guys playing at RG.

We don't know if Newton will improve enough next year, but we can't rule that out either.

I don't think the Texans can afford more than a couple of mils for a FA; but who knows, maybe they will surprise us ?!?
my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
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Old 03-06-2013   #26
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

i say does not hurt to put our name in the hat

i see more positive then neg if we make that move even bring in winston has a backup just in case knock on wood one of our tackles goes down
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Old 03-06-2013   #27
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
From 2008 to the rest of his time as a Texan, Winston had Mike Brisiel to his left. In zone runs the Guard has a ton more to do than a tackle. The bottom fell out of the o-line when MB broke his leg in 2011 and Winston was still in there. I think the Texans believed they would be able to keep MB so cut Winston.

Our shell shocked QB needs pass pro more than our all pro RB needs run blocking. How much of our non existent cap room do you want to put on the line? We have Cody, Barwin, and Quin (all starters) who are unrestricted. We are paper thin at ILB. No one has hard numbers on the cap but it is very likely any money you add will require a cap saving cut. Not just a cut but a cut that saves you cap space.
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Old 03-07-2013   #28
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
Winston only gave up 3 sacks last year for KC. One of the best in the league.
SIX!

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...d=7815&team=12

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...=25001&team=34

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...d=8324&team=34

Stats LLC and Elias Sports Bureau belongs to the same group of companies.
They are the official stats keeper for the NFL.
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Old 03-07-2013   #29
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ng-efficiency/

I don't trust PFF completely, but at any rate, those numbers were up to Nov 28; neither Winston nor Newton made the good list or the bad list.
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Old 03-07-2013   #30
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
SIX!

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...d=7815&team=12

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...=25001&team=34

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...d=8324&team=34

Stats LLC and Elias Sports Bureau belongs to the same group of companies.
They are the official stats keeper for the NFL.
Interesting. PFF had him with 3. Don't know where they get their info.

Quote:
@Ravensinsider Eric Winston gave up just three sacks last season, according to Pro Football Focus. Not too shabby
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Old 03-07-2013   #31
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

I'd take Eric Winston back if he came cheap, but lets remember his faults for a bit here. He has short arms and slow feet, he doesn't do well against speed rushers, thus giving up way to many sacks. I'd leave Newton at RT where I think he'll improve with experience, and move Winston to RG where I think his size, strength, and experience would benifit the Texans and Newton. His toughness and attitude would benifit the youngsters as well.
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Old 03-07-2013   #32
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
Scooter, also, I just reread all of the ReFocus pieces from PFF, and Newton was only mentioned negatively in 3 early games (Dolphins, Broncos, Packers) and in one loss to the Pats. All these teams have very good to great edge players. The good thing is that Newton seems to improve.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-south/texans/
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Old 03-07-2013   #33
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

NVM im pretty sure the texans will stick with there young draft pick in newton
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Old 03-07-2013   #34
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
Interesting. PFF had him with 3. Don't know where they get their info.
That's why I said I don't trust PFF completely.
Once, I had mentioned a Giants blogger who questioned how PFF record QB Pressure. The player involved was a Giant, Tucker, I believe.
The blogger loves Tucker, but he showed a clip where PFF credited Tucker with a QB Pressure when Tucker was a couple of miles away from the QB, LOL!
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Old 03-07-2013   #35
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Scooter, also, I just reread all of the ReFocus pieces from PFF, and Newton was only mentioned negatively in 3 early games (Dolphins, Broncos, Packers) and in one loss to the Pats. All these teams have very good to great edge players. The good thing is that Newton seems to improve.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-south/texans/
a little vague bud, not being mentioned as a negative isnt a positive. as for improving, he certainly did. my unprofessional opinion says his improvement showed us where his ceiling is, and it's a swing tackle. i understand defending a texan or deriding what could be a bad idea, but newton was bad last year. his poor play and inconsistency very much contributed to our problems late in the year offensively.

one player is being supported as "he's not THAT bad", while the other is a probowler and graded among the tops at his position being ridden down as "not THAT good".
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Old 03-07-2013   #36
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by JamesBill View Post
From 2008 to the rest of his time as a Texan, Winston had Mike Brisiel to his left. In zone runs the Guard has a ton more to do than a tackle. The bottom fell out of the o-line when MB broke his leg in 2011 and Winston was still in there. I think the Texans believed they would be able to keep MB so cut Winston.

Our shell shocked QB needs pass pro more than our all pro RB needs run blocking. How much of our non existent cap room do you want to put on the line? We have Cody, Barwin, and Quin (all starters) who are unrestricted. We are paper thin at ILB. No one has hard numbers on the cap but it is very likely any money you add will require a cap saving cut. Not just a cut but a cut that saves you cap space.
whoever our right tackle is will have jones and/or brooks beside them, both an upgrade over brisiel IMO. as for the pass pro, you know that's not how it works. we're not built to drop back repeatedly. we have 3 legit runningbacks, a versatile fullback, and a purpose built offensive line ... we need to be able to run the ball in any and all situations, and work the pass off of those runs. that died at the end of the year because we were near crippled on the right side and teams were able to dictate our run game and force us to drop back.

if i had my way, i'd forget about winston and trade up heavily to take a wide receiver and offensive tackle in the first round. the monster in the NFL right now is the 49'ers, who basically made 2 quarterbacks all-pro's this year ... no wonder since they have 3 first rounders on the line, another at backup RG, 1st rounders at tightend and wide receiver and a former quarterback coaching them. i would LOOOOOVE to see kubiak with that kind of ammo. winston has proven himself has a really good run blocker and merely adequate pass blocker, he also has chemistry with our line and coaches ... that is very much a difference maker in january.

i realize we're bumping the cap, but as i understand it, we have a bit more flexibility this year. barwin's out and his replacement is already on the roster. mitchell is likely starting next year. walter is probably going to be cut or renegotiated. smith is up in the air. the only real concern regarding the cap is quin, and if it came to a safety or offensive lineman ... i for one believe the game is won and lost in the trenches.
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Old 03-07-2013   #37
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by paycheck71 View Post
Interesting. PFF had him with 3. Don't know where they get their info.
PFF assigns some sacks to the QB.

For example, if the LDE engages the RT, the QB rolls out into the flat and the LDE chases him down for a sack, PFF assigns it to the QB and Stats LLC assigns it to the RT.
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Old 03-07-2013   #38
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

Kinda strange,but I heard some chatter last night and sent my buddy a text at 830 about winston getting. Winston has trouble with speed rushers,but he's pretty good in the combat zone. They could play him at rg and he would be just fine. Btw,Joekell is gonna struggle with speed rushers also at lt.
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Old 03-07-2013   #39
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

I hate to say I told you so & toot my own horn, but I know damn well, no one else is going to do it.

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If I remember right, we were paying Winston $5M/yr. I didn't think he was worth it. I don't think he is worth it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs manage to acquire Joekel, & replace Winston.


Winston was what? A 6th year player & most likely led the team in false starts. He's a fine pass protector when going against your powerful strongside DEs (like a Mario Williams) but against a quicker, Freeny type, or a quick/explosive guy like Clay Matthews, he's like a wet paper sack. On the playside of a run..... I don't know there's a better tackle save maybe DBrown76. On the backside, lots of room for improvement. He didn't flat out suck.. but nowhere near where he should be.
It makes absolutely zero sense for the Texans to bring Winston back. Everyone is acting like he was an All-Pro from day one, when he never was at any point in his time here. He's a one trick pony & we need to get better at that position, not go backwards.

Derek Newton may not be the answer, but in my humble opinion he was much better in his rookie season than Eric Winston was in his first three seasons.
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Old 03-07-2013   #40
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
Don't know what to tell you, they're wrong.

I doubt Winston will sign another $5M/yr deal. I'm sure he'll get picked up, but I doubt he'll be starting where ever he goes at the end of 2013, unless there's a major attitude adjustment & he actually gets better at his job. I've always had the feeling he thought he was "good enough"
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