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Old 02-26-2013   #1
badboy
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Default Post combine mock

IMO, there are several WR2 picks but only 3 that could eventually replace AJ @ WR1: Patterson, Allen (leg issues) and Da'Rick Rogers. My guy has size, speed, skill set of a young AJ. Runs entire tree routes with good hands with physicality to take ball away from defense. He can go deep but offers a plus target to Schaub going over the middle and can work back to the ball as needed. Like Johnson he can take a lickin and keep on tickin with very aggressive run style. More fluid than "quick twitch" but has good speed to size ratio. Could he slip to our second? Why take a chance if he is what you want? Off field, three busts for MJ which he readily admitted to and states he passed 10 screens at Tennessee Tech, if not true, media would have been all over that. Clean for a season, admitted immaturity issues and good combine interviews. 22 YOA in June.

First: WR Da'Rick Rogers 6'2 1/2 " 217.7 lbs 4.44 combine (2nd try). 32 3/4 arms with 9 1/2 hands; 39.5 vert; top 5 3 cone.

2. NT Brandon Williams 6'2" 341 unbelievable hustle at this size who chases ball to sidelines like no other Nose over 310.

3a CB/S David Amerson 6'2" 194 (high school safety) combine 4.38 some concern about his make up speed like I had with KJ but not anymore after combine. Steal if still here. Phillips likes his players to gamble and take risks but good coaching will restore his confidence as it did Jackson's. His 5 INTs in 2012 only look paltry compared to 2013's 13 INTs. If he strikes out at corner, he will be an unbelievably good safety in our system.

3b OLB: Jamie Collins unless Kiko Alonzo avail

4. ILB A J Klein
5. CB Terry Hawthorne 4.44
6. TE Michael Williams huge blocker with soft hands.
7. OLB Quanterus Smith

I do expect one more comp minimum in 5th or 6th and would use that for Cierre Wood RB Notre Dame
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Old 02-26-2013   #2
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
IMO, there are several WR2 picks but only 3 that could eventually replace AJ @ WR1: Patterson, Allen (leg issues) and Da'Rick Rogers. My guy has size, speed, skill set of a young AJ. Runs entire tree routes with good hands with physicality to take ball away from defense. He can go deep but offers a plus target to Schaub going over the middle and can work back to the ball as needed. Like Johnson he can take a lickin and keep on tickin with very aggressive run style. More fluid than "quick twitch" but has good speed to size ratio. Could he slip to our second? Why take a chance if he is what you want? Off field, three busts for MJ which he readily admitted to and states he passed 10 screens at Tennessee Tech, if not true, media would have been all over that. Clean for a season, admitted immaturity issues and good combine interviews. 22 YOA in June.

First: WR Da'Rick Rogers 6'2 1/2 " 217.7 lbs 4.44 combine (2nd try). 32 3/4 arms with 9 1/2 hands; 39.5 vert; top 5 3 cone.

2. NT Brandon Williams 6'2" 341 unbelievable hustle at this size who chases ball to sidelines like no other Nose over 310.

3a CB/S David Amerson 6'2" 194 (high school safety) combine 4.38 some concern about his make up speed like I had with KJ but not anymore after combine. Steal if still here. Phillips likes his players to gamble and take risks but good coaching will restore his confidence as it did Jackson's. His 5 INTs in 2012 only look paltry compared to 2013's 13 INTs. If he strikes out at corner, he will be an unbelievably good safety in our system.

3b OLB: Jamie Collins unless Kiko Alonzo avail

4. ILB A J Klein
5. CB Terry Hawthorne 4.44
6. TE Michael Williams huge blocker with soft hands.
7. OLB Quanterus Smith

I do expect one more comp minimum in 5th or 6th and would use that for Cierre Wood RB Notre Dame
very similar mock to what i was going to put up in a few days.
i had both williams' , klein and hawthorne and instead of rogers i had hunter in the first.

So obviously i like your mock a lot
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Old 02-26-2013   #3
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Default Re: Post combine mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
IMO, there are several WR2 picks but only 3 that could eventually replace AJ @ WR1: Patterson, Allen (leg issues) and Da'Rick Rogers. My guy has size, speed, skill set of a young AJ. Runs entire tree routes with good hands with physicality to take ball away from defense. He can go deep but offers a plus target to Schaub going over the middle and can work back to the ball as needed. Like Johnson he can take a lickin and keep on tickin with very aggressive run style. More fluid than "quick twitch" but has good speed to size ratio. Could he slip to our second? Why take a chance if he is what you want? Off field, three busts for MJ which he readily admitted to and states he passed 10 screens at Tennessee Tech, if not true, media would have been all over that. Clean for a season, admitted immaturity issues and good combine interviews. 22 YOA in June.

First: WR Da'Rick Rogers 6'2 1/2 " 217.7 lbs 4.44 combine (2nd try). 32 3/4 arms with 9 1/2 hands; 39.5 vert; top 5 3 cone.

2. NT Brandon Williams 6'2" 341 unbelievable hustle at this size who chases ball to sidelines like no other Nose over 310.

3a CB/S David Amerson 6'2" 194 (high school safety) combine 4.38 some concern about his make up speed like I had with KJ but not anymore after combine. Steal if still here. Phillips likes his players to gamble and take risks but good coaching will restore his confidence as it did Jackson's. His 5 INTs in 2012 only look paltry compared to 2013's 13 INTs. If he strikes out at corner, he will be an unbelievably good safety in our system.

3b OLB: Jamie Collins unless Kiko Alonzo avail

4. ILB A J Klein
5. CB Terry Hawthorne 4.44
6. TE Michael Williams huge blocker with soft hands.
7. OLB Quanterus Smith

I do expect one more comp minimum in 5th or 6th and would use that for Cierre Wood RB Notre Dame
That's a nice draft. Don't see Williams or any of the top 9 DT's available for us in the second. That is why I'm going DT first unless there is a record number taken before us, there should be a real high quality one staring us in the face. There should still be plenty of good fast WR's left for us in the second probably even the third round.

No WR in this draft will have as big an impact on offense as what a good penetrating DT will make for this defense. offensive lines will be overwhelmed with 3 really good penetrating DL and speed off the edges and Cushing backing them up.

That's how we are going to beat NE (Brady). We're not going to out score them no matter who you put at WR #2.
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Old 02-26-2013   #4
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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Originally Posted by aussie_texan View Post
very similar mock to what i was going to put up in a few days.
i had both williams' , klein and hawthorne and instead of rogers i had hunter in the first.

So obviously i like your mock a lot
SteelTexan has Hunter and I like him just not as much as Rogers. I think we will see an open mind with Da'Rick by Texans as he has tested clean and kept his immaturity (coaching) in check. Add ing tem pounds would help Hunter IF he can do that but he is basically a down field guy. We need another AJ that cn be successful over the middle.
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Old 02-26-2013   #5
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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SteelTexan has Hunter and I like him just not as much as Rogers. I think we will see an open mind with Da'Rick by Texans as he has tested clean and kept his immaturity (coaching) in check. Add ing tem pounds would help Hunter IF he can do that but he is basically a down field guy. We need another AJ that cn be successful over the middle.
I hope you're right about the Texans taking Rodgers. I like him better than Hunter and think he's nore of what Garys looking for in a WR.

However BoB will never allow the Rodgers pick.
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Old 02-27-2013   #6
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Default Re: Post combine mock

JMO:

1. Rodgers, I really like the player but it's questionable if he'll pass the Bob McNair sniff test.
2. B. Williams, risky pick and I think it will take him a yr. or 2 to become the NT we want.
3. Amerson, I've had him in my latest mock at this same pick. Start him off working with the CB's but wouldn't be surprised to see him at Safety rather quickly.
3b. Collins, I'm not familiar with him.
4. Klein, love this pick.
5. Hawthorne, I still think he goes earlier than this, probably early 3rd.
6. M. Williams, love this pick as well. I was disappointed he didn't get a Combine invite.
7. Smith, how's his injury recovery coming?

You've got 3 LB's and no O-linemen? Also another WR wouldn't be a bad idea either.
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Old 02-27-2013   #7
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Default Re: Post combine mock

Ive been on board with Rodgers for a while now , glad to see others catching on. My favorite WR in this draft.

I thought about Amerson as a first rounder in an early mock - might not go where I had him pegged at that time .... but a steal in the 3rd.

Klien is another of my favorites .... I have him as a late 3rd early 4th.


3 of the first 5 we agree on and it wouldnt take a whole lot of convincing to get me on board with Williams.



Would you consider spending the other 3rd on an OT (instead of Jamie Collins ) ?! I had mentioned Terron Armstead a few weeks ago .... but it looks like he's moved up from where I had him before (4th). Oddly enough in that same post I had Rodgers and Klien in the 1'st and 3rd rounds respectively.
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Old 02-27-2013   #8
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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I hope you're right about the Texans taking Rodgers. I like him better than Hunter and think he's nore of what Garys looking for in a WR.

However BoB will never allow the Rodgers pick.
The guy just makes flucking plays ..... and performed at a high level agianst the very best competition also had his best performances when it mattered most.


I just dont see how the know it alls have him ranked so low .... other than the pot issue. puff puff pass .... it to Randy Moss.
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Old 02-27-2013   #9
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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The guy just makes flucking plays ..... and performed at a high level agianst the very best competition also had his best performances when it mattered most.


I just dont see how the know it alls have him ranked so low .... other than the pot issue. puff puff pass .... it to Randy Moss.
Well, the "pot issue" is something that can keep Rogers off the field. They test for it in the NFL, just like they do in college (where he failed multiple times). That's not something that should be dismissed offhand.

I'm not seeing how Rogers had his best peformances when it mattered most. His best games in 2011 (that's all I'm looking at) came against Buffalo and Middle Tennessee. Rogers numbers vs. LSU, Bama, and Florida were pedestrian. Looking at this draft class, there are too many WRs who were just as productive, and just as athletic, that haven't busted piss tests. There are probably 10 WRs that should be drafted ahead of Rogers, which would put him somewhere in the 3rd round (at best).
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Old 02-27-2013   #10
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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First: WR Da'Rick Rogers 6'2 1/2 " 217.7 lbs 4.44 combine (2nd try). 32 3/4 arms with 9 1/2 hands; 39.5 vert; top 5 3 cone.
Good chance you can get this guy in the second round because there's maybe
10 WRs rated ahead of him, so why use a first round pic on him ? And now maybe his college receivers coach will award him a 4.44 at his Pro Day whenever that is, but he failed to break 4.5 at Indy over the weekend so he's just got average speed for an NFL WR. I'd take the Clemson kid (and several others)
way before this choice. Sorry, but I just don't see the value here ?
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Old 02-27-2013   #11
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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That's a nice draft. Don't see Williams or any of the top 9 DT's available for us in the second. That is why I'm going DT first unless there is a record number taken before us, there should be a real high quality one staring us in the face. There should still be plenty of good fast WR's left for us in the second probably even the third round.

No WR in this draft will have as big an impact on offense as what a good penetrating DT will make for this defense. offensive lines will be overwhelmed with 3 really good penetrating DL and speed off the edges and Cushing backing them up.

That's how we are going to beat NE (Brady). We're not going to out score them no matter who you put at WR #2.
I really get what you are saying Mussop but imo the higher quality Noses will be gone by 27 anyway. I think what will keep Brandon avail in second is last year's Dontari Poe who compares to B Williams in minimal film but high octane combine:

Dontari Poe (born August 18, 1990) is an American football nose tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs. He played college football at Memphis (2009–2011), where he was a Second Team All-Conference USA selection in 2011. Originally projected a second-round draft pick, Poe amazed NFL scouts with exceptionally strong workouts at the 2012 NFL Combine.[1] He was eventually selected eleventh overall in the 2012 NFL Draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dontari_Poe


Going to disagree about your WR comments also. Rogers would offer Schaub a second high profile target that can runn all routes including the short dumps to avoid a sack that AJ gets beat up on. Rogers rarely drops a pass despite tackle. He prolongs AJ's career & possibly allows Walter to leave. Other WRs just will not do that imo.The only thing that will save Cody's job if he gets clean bill of health & I don't see that.

Looking at team needs I think DTs will not be selected as you think.
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Old 02-27-2013   #12
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
JMO:

1. Rodgers, I really like the player but it's questionable if he'll pass the Bob McNair sniff test.
2. B. Williams, risky pick and I think it will take him a yr. or 2 to become the NT we want.
3. Amerson, I've had him in my latest mock at this same pick. Start him off working with the CB's but wouldn't be surprised to see him at Safety rather quickly.
3b. Collins, I'm not familiar with him.
4. Klein, love this pick.
5. Hawthorne, I still think he goes earlier than this, probably early 3rd.
6. M. Williams, love this pick as well. I was disappointed he didn't get a Combine invite.
7. Smith, how's his injury recovery coming?

You've got 3 LB's and no O-linemen? Also another WR wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Definitely understand the concerns about marijuana and why I removed him from my mocks after he was cut from Tenn. I think his attitude of fessing up and saying what he has done to correct his behavior (10 clean tests)will get McNair's attention and ok. He did not assault his girlfriend or father several kids with different women or even burglary. His high school coach has really gone to bat for him as has the Tenn Tech's coach. For our system only Patterson bring same physical package and from what I hear, CP's interviews were no well recieved. Brandon immediately gives you what we had from Cody & Mitchell minimum;
he then improves, minimal risk.

Klein freaked me out with the knee injury at combine but from what he tweeted it was insignificant. Kid is a tackler. Hawthorne had the combine he wanted but then so did several others due to the fast track. If Amerson is gone and he has moved up into second, I'd consider moving Hawthorne up; he is just that good.
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Old 02-27-2013   #13
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Default Re: Post combine mock

I like your emphasis on prospects with upside & athletic measureables, but high risk, don't conform to character parameters Texans embrace & positions too concentrated in similar areas of need. Only being hard on you & SteelB because I like you guys, if I didn't care wouldn't take time to respond. You know we would never sign off on D' Rick Rodgers. Texans let Jacoby leave via Free Agency for far less but have to feel it was based (same as Holliday) questionable decisions on field & character issues. Doesn't mean both aren't NFL quality players. Best thing ever happened to Jacoby was leaving town, change of scenery not so mych for Rodgers after leaving Tennessee but I recognize similar pattern.

Brandon is one of those tweener early to mid second rounders. Texans could either trade down if Austin or Hopkins not there in 1st. OR trade up in the 2nd. Williams is a much better prospect than Poe who was over drafted because of need, lets be smart about him.

Amerson I would take with that 2nd. Don't see how a guy with his ability slips to end of 3rd? Off field issue with him seems minor, lot of circumstances contributred to his decline this season but he stands out as a premier big CB in this class. Huge upside with Joseph coaching him & between JJ & Kareem. But if you get Amerson why duplicate size/speed with another corner in Hawthorne? One pick or the other, there are other needs.

I'm fine with Klein in the 4th.

To be honest I really prefer SteelB's TE Levine Toilolo but neither is still available in 6th.

I see you still have Quanterus Smith late, that would be a pleasant surprise, high upside kid coming off injury.

BL
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Old 02-27-2013   #14
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Ive been on board with Rodgers for a while now , glad to see others catching on. My favorite WR in this draft.

I thought about Amerson as a first rounder in an early mock - might not go where I had him pegged at that time .... but a steal in the 3rd.

Klien is another of my favorites .... I have him as a late 3rd early 4th.


3 of the first 5 we agree on and it wouldnt take a whole lot of convincing to get me on board with Williams.



Would you consider spending the other 3rd on an OT (instead of Jamie Collins ) ?! I had mentioned Terron Armstead a few weeks ago .... but it looks like he's moved up from where I had him before (4th). Oddly enough in that same post I had Rodgers and Klien in the 1'st and 3rd rounds respectively.
Like a smoker going cold turkey I am off OTs. I had Menelik for a bit but I have gone from a derogatory critic of Newton to probably his most vocal fan. Much easier to sign a cheap vet FA to swing and use picks for other positions. I had written off Butler but he knows system, maybe a better LT than right and coming off injury may have to sign for at least one season cheap. Personally think OG is a bigger question mark.
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Old 02-27-2013   #15
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Good chance you can get this guy in the second round because there's maybe
10 WRs rated ahead of him, so why use a first round pic on him ? And now maybe his college receivers coach will award him a 4.44 at his Pro Day whenever that is, but he failed to break 4.5 at Indy over the weekend so he's just got average speed for an NFL WR. I'd take the Clemson kid (and several others)
way before this choice. Sorry, but I just don't see the value here ?
Disagree

Name the 10 WR's that are better than Rodgers?

He played alot of his yr at Tenn with Simms son as his QB. That would cause any WR to look bad.

Rodgers would be a top 10-15 pick without the pot thingy. While he did run a 4.52 he scored at the top on all of the other drills at the combine. He also has great strong hands and is not afraid of going over the middle. Rodgers is also very hard to tackle with the ball in his hands and is a very good blocker.

Rodgers/Allen and Hopkins are the 3 most pro ready WR's in this draft. IMHO
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Old 02-27-2013   #16
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Definitely understand the concerns about marijuana and why I removed him from my mocks after he was cut from Tenn. I think his attitude of fessing up and saying what he has done to correct his behavior (10 clean tests)will get McNair's attention and ok. He did not assault his girlfriend or father several kids with different women or even burglary. His high school coach has really gone to bat for him as has the Tenn Tech's coach. For our system only Patterson bring same physical package and from what I hear, CP's interviews were no well recieved. Brandon immediately gives you what we had from Cody & Mitchell minimum;
he then improves, minimal risk.

Klein freaked me out with the knee injury at combine but from what he tweeted it was insignificant. Kid is a tackler. Hawthorne had the combine he wanted but then so did several others due to the fast track. If Amerson is gone and he has moved up into second, I'd consider moving Hawthorne up; he is just that good.
I saw you mentioned that his Tennessee Tech coaches have gone to bat for him, but according to this report some in the NFL aren't quite hearing the same positive feedback in Rogers.


An NFL source told CBS Sports' Bruce Feldman that he is "skeptical" about how much Tennessee Tech WR Da'Rick Rogers has actually matured since getting kicked off the University of Tennessee's team. The Vols booted Rogers for three failed drug tests. He claims to have passed ten last year at Tennessee Tech and sounded 100-percent contrite in his Combine media interview. The source remains skeptical because Rogers' "attitude bothered some of his coaches at Tech, too." At the Combine, Rogers ran 4.52 at 6-foot-2, 217. He showed explosion in the vertical (39 1/2") and broad (11') jumps.

Source: CBS Sports


I hope the Texans are reaching the point that they have strong vet leadership that they wouldn't allow a rookie to disrupt them, but instead insist that the rookie conform to them & what the organization expects. Of course, the Texans haven't been much of the risk taking type so I could see them passing on him if they feel other quality options are available.
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Old 02-27-2013   #17
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Default Re: Post combine mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Definitely understand the concerns about marijuana and why I removed him from my mocks after he was cut from Tenn. I think his attitude of fessing up and saying what he has done to correct his behavior (10 clean tests)will get McNair's attention and ok. He did not assault his girlfriend or father several kids with different women or even burglary. His high school coach has really gone to bat for him as has the Tenn Tech's coach. For our system only Patterson bring same physical package and from what I hear, CP's interviews were no well recieved. Brandon immediately gives you what we had from Cody & Mitchell minimum;
he then improves, minimal risk.

Klein freaked me out with the knee injury at combine but from what he tweeted it was insignificant. Kid is a tackler. Hawthorne had the combine he wanted but then so did several others due to the fast track. If Amerson is gone and he has moved up into second, I'd consider moving Hawthorne up; he is just that good.
I saw you mentioned that his Tennessee Tech coaches have gone to bat for him, but according to this report some, or at least one, in the NFL aren't quite hearing the same positive feedback on Rogers.


An NFL source told CBS Sports' Bruce Feldman that he is "skeptical" about how much Tennessee Tech WR Da'Rick Rogers has actually matured since getting kicked off the University of Tennessee's team. The Vols booted Rogers for three failed drug tests. He claims to have passed ten last year at Tennessee Tech and sounded 100-percent contrite in his Combine media interview. The source remains skeptical because Rogers' "attitude bothered some of his coaches at Tech, too." At the Combine, Rogers ran 4.52 at 6-foot-2, 217. He showed explosion in the vertical (39 1/2") and broad (11') jumps.

Source: CBS Sports


I hope the Texans are reaching the point that they have strong vet leadership that they wouldn't allow a rookie to disrupt them, but instead insist that the rookie conform to them & what the organization expects. Of course, the Texans haven't been much of the risk taking type so I could see them passing on him if they feel other quality options are available.
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Old 02-27-2013   #18
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Default Re: Post combine mock

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Well, the "pot issue" is something that can keep Rogers off the field. They test for it in the NFL, just like they do in college (where he failed multiple times). That's not something that should be dismissed offhand.

I'm not seeing how Rogers had his best peformances when it mattered most. His best games in 2011 (that's all I'm looking at) came against Buffalo and Middle Tennessee. Rogers numbers vs. LSU, Bama, and Florida were pedestrian. Looking at this draft class, there are too many WRs who were just as productive, and just as athletic, that haven't busted piss tests. There are probably 10 WRs that should be drafted ahead of Rogers, which would put him somewhere in the 3rd round (at best).
LSU: 3 for 63 yards; Georgia: 5 for 71; Florida 5 for 62; Arkansas 5 for 106; Vanderbilt 10 for 116; Alabama 2 for 32.

Patterson in 2012: Florida 8 for 75; Georgia 2 for 31; Vanderbilt 3 for 52; Kentucky 4 for 88; did not play Arkansas or LSU; Alabama 1 for 25

Keep in mind that Rogers played for Tech while Patterson played for Vols. with Tyler Bray. maybe it's Patterson who should be drafted in 3rd at best.
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Old 02-27-2013   #19
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Default Re: Post combine mock

I don't think either Hunter or Rodgers are NFL ready and I don't think the Texans will pick either in the 1st. If the Texans are looking for a WR to come in and help right away then Hopkins or Allen are their best bet. No, neither one would be an eventual replacement for AJ. But, are we looking for a WR to groom to replace AJ or are we looking for someone to come in and replace K-Dub? There is NO, I repeat, NO, WR in this class that will ever come close to doing what AJ does, on or off the field IMO! If Megatron, Green, or Julio Jones were there and the Texans had a top 10 pick, then heck yeah, but that's not the case.

I can't sit here and tell you that Hopkins or Allen will turn out to be the best WR from this class and that they'll light up the NFL, but I think they are both more NFL ready than either Hunter or Rodgers. And, I think that's what the Texans are looking for, a WR who can come in and, with a little coaching, could start opposite AJ and give them some sure hands, good blocking, good route running, and hopefully a little more speed and play making ability then K-Dub.
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Old 02-27-2013   #20
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Default Re: Post combine mock

Can't speak to Rogers as I've never seen play. A guy that could be a sleeper in this draft is Woods from USC and it pains me to say that as an Irish fan. I know he had a down year but consider his situation, ankle injury, QB had a shoulder injury and a young stud stole some of his thunder. But, he's got good size and speed, looked really good catching the ball at the combine and might be had in rd 2.

I really like Williams and Collins. Collins is ultra explosive, was stuck on a bad team but had quite a few sacks and TFLs. He's also just learning the position as he is a former DB. I think he could have the flexibility to play inside and outside.
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