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Old 02-26-2013   #41
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.
Perhaps we need to reexamine our definition of pedestrian. Schaub and Peyton are 2.2 yards apart on yards per game. Manning throws more TD's (% of throws). Schaub throws less INT's (% of throws) and for a higher average yards per attempt (yeah that one kind of surprised me too).

I AM NOT SAYING SCHAUB IS PEYTON SO NOBODY BRING THAT TIRED SCHTICK.
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Old 02-26-2013   #42
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I'm pretty sure they saved all of 2 million dollars of cap space in 2013/14 combined from this extension. If someone has something that says otherwise, let me know. An extension like that for 2 million in cap space is pretty dumb if you ask me.
Peter King had a number much larger than that the other day but I believe he was wrong. This is what I read recently

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...spend-all-cash
Quote:
Q. There has been talk that this year, because the cap is not expected to rise, that several teams will have to cut some good players. Is this, at least in part, the reason for the Brady deal? That is, the Pats can now be major players, not only in keeping some of their own players, but also in the free agent market at large? -- Tman (Belmont)

A. Tman, yes, there is an element of that in play with the Brady extension. I still thought the Patriots were in solid position with $18 million in cap space, but this gives the team even more flexibility this year (about $26 million in cap space by my estimate) and next year as well (when the cap isn't expected to rise again). It's all part of an overall strategy that was hatched after the 2011 lockout to prepare for the "flat-cap" era of football -- three straight years in which the salary cap did not increase much at all. I specifically remember owner Robert Kraft talking about the future and the salary cap not rising, and some contesting that viewpoint. The teams that didn't prepare accordingly are going to be hurt this year.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...lion-extension
Quote:
Brady's relatively modest deal frees up $15 million worth of salary-cap space for the Patriots in the 2013 and 2014 seasons, a league source told ESPN.
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Old 02-26-2013   #43
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Perhaps we need to reexamine our definition of pedestrian. Schaub and Peyton are 2.2 yards apart on yards per game. Manning throws more TD's (% of throws). Schaub throws less INT's (% of throws) and for a higher average yards per attempt (yeah that one kind of surprised me too).
I use it as a descriptive term for lackluster and average.

pedestrian - Lacking inspiration or excitement; dull

I know you were not trying to compare QBs. However, just for fun of explaining the pedestrian tag as defined above:

Peyton Manning = 38 fourth quarter comebacks, 49 game-winning drives (in 244 RS starts)

Matt Schaub = 9 fourth quarter comebacks, 12 game-winning drives (in 82 RS starts)

And, for fun...

TJ Yates = 1 fourth quarter comeback, 2 game-winning drives (in 5 RS starts)
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Old 02-26-2013   #44
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.
Good points. However, I think you'd have to have a pretty desperate team, or an arrogant HC, or a moron, or a mixture of the three to trade two seconds for Yates & signing him to a starting QBs contract sight unseen.

Tj is right where he needs to be. Backing up Matt Schaub. If he gets another opportunity to play in the regular season, it's up to Tj to win the job.

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady.
All I want is the second coming of Romo. & I'm serious as a heart attack.
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Old 02-27-2013   #45
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Good points. However, I think you'd have to have a pretty desperate team, or an arrogant HC, or a moron, or a mixture of the three to trade two seconds for Yates & signing him to a starting QBs contract sight unseen.

Tj is right where he needs to be. Backing up Matt Schaub. If he gets another opportunity to play in the regular season, it's up to Tj to win the job.



All I want is the second coming of Romo. & I'm serious as a heart attack.
Seriously? TJ has just as many playoff wins as Romo.
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Old 02-27-2013   #46
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Peter King had a number much larger than that the other day but I believe he was wrong. This is what I read recently

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...spend-all-cash


http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...lion-extension
From what I read, Brady was scheduled to make 30 million over the next two years on his old deal. I haven't seen anything that says he was supposed to make ~43 million in those two years, which is how you would get the huge savings. Unfortunately, all of my go to sites for contract info have already updated his contract, so I'm not sure what he was supposed to make. That's really the issue here, was he really scheduled to make 22 million next year? Something isn't adding up.
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Old 02-27-2013   #47
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Seriously? TJ has just as many playoff wins as Romo.
Yeah.... I'm from the school that QBs don't win or lose games. They either lead the team to be in a position to win or lose. Romo gives that Dallas team a chance every game, regardless who else is on that team.
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Old 02-27-2013   #48
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
From what I read, Brady was scheduled to make 30 million over the next two years on his old deal. I haven't seen anything that says he was supposed to make ~43 million in those two years, which is how you would get the huge savings. Unfortunately, all of my go to sites for contract info have already updated his contract, so I'm not sure what he was supposed to make. That's really the issue here, was he really scheduled to make 22 million next year? Something isn't adding up.
Right- they added Three million in Salary (1 mill in 13 and 2 in 14) but converted hos 13 and 14 salaray to a $30 mill SB and then guaranteed the last 3 yrs at 9 mill each (27 mill)
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Old 02-27-2013   #49
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Yeah.... I'm from the school that QBs don't win or lose games.
You obviously missed Joe Montana's career.
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Old 02-27-2013   #50
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
Right- they added Three million in Salary (1 mill in 13 and 2 in 14) but converted hos 13 and 14 salaray to a $30 mill SB and then guaranteed the last 3 yrs at 9 mill each (27 mill)
Edit: I see it now.

Brady restructured his salary in 2012 to signing bonus and that added to the cap hit to 2013 and 2014. His original deal was going to be:
2013: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus
2014: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus

Total of 43.6 million over two years.

Instead, they now have him as:
2013: 1 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 8 million)
2014: 2 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 7 million)

Total of 28.6 over two years. A savings of 15 million in cap space.

And after 2014 the only signing bonus is the 6m a year from the restructure.

Now it all makes sense!
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Old 02-27-2013   #51
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairba...act_schaub.php

Interesting about Bradys contract versus Schaubs
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Old 02-28-2013   #52
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Edit: I see it now.

Brady restructured his salary in 2012 to signing bonus and that added to the cap hit to 2013 and 2014. His original deal was going to be:
2013: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus
2014: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus

Total of 43.6 million over two years.

Instead, they now have him as:
2013: 1 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 8 million)
2014: 2 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 7 million)

Total of 28.6 over two years. A savings of 15 million in cap space.

And after 2014 the only signing bonus is the 6m a year from the restructure.

Now it all makes sense!
Not to mention the fact that he has already made $70-80 million and is 37 yrs old

But Pats fans think Tom is a Saint....
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Old 02-28-2013   #53
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.

I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.
Schaub did not show much as a rookie and that is why he was a back up like TJ. If Yates excites a coach, he will be a starter...somewhere. I like Yates as a back up that hopefully can manage Texans if Schaub goes out.
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Old 02-28-2013   #54
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Schaub did not show much as a rookie and that is why he was a back up like TJ. If Yates excites a coach, he will be a starter...somewhere. I like Yates as a back up that hopefully can manage Texans if Schaub goes out.
TJ did show us something, helping the team to come from behind to win a game that won the division, and then winning a playoff game. Do you remember 3rd & 18 and TJ running for almost 19 yards for a first down? That kept the game winning drive alive, and then he nails Walter for the game winning TD. Dude is a gamer. Rough around the edges, but those can be polished. He's got smarts, he's a leader, and he doesn't crack under pressure.

This for a 5th round 3rd string QB without an off-season or any reps that was thrown into the fire.

I'm not going to hold Ed Reed in Baltimore during a playoff game against him like so many folks do.
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Old 02-28-2013   #55
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.

I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.


In your TJ stats are you leaving out his playoff games?
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Old 02-28-2013   #56
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
TJ did show us something, helping the team to come from behind to win a game that won the division, and then winning a playoff game. Do you remember 3rd & 18 and TJ running for almost 19 yards for a first down? That kept the game winning drive alive, and then he nails Walter for the game winning TD. Dude is a gamer. Rough around the edges, but those can be polished. He's got smarts, he's a leader, and he doesn't crack under pressure.

This for a 5th round 3rd string QB without an off-season or any reps that was thrown into the fire.

I'm not going to hold Ed Reed in Baltimore during a playoff game against him like so many folks do.



Id also say too many folks hold JJ responsible for our loss last year when it was a clear combination of failures JJ, Yates and FG kicking. Well you should hold those 3 picks against him to some degree if you are also going to sing praises to his upside. Those 3 ints could have easily been 4-5 btw. What Yates did last season more often than not was just play well enough for us not to lose, it was our D that helped TJ to most of his wins not TJ. Check out the drop in ppg Schaub to Yates and dont mention Dre because Schaub didnt see a drop in ppg without Dre.
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Old 02-28-2013   #57
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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In your TJ stats are you leaving out his playoff games?
Yeah, he is, and leaving out 4 fumbles in the regular season. But he did say he's willing to overlook going against Ed Reed in the playoffs. TJ posted a 53.8 QB rating in the playoffs with 1 TD and 3 INTs.
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Old 02-28-2013   #58
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Yeah, he is, and leaving out 4 fumbles in the regular season. But he did say he's willing to overlook going against Ed Reed in the playoffs. TJ posted a 53.8 QB rating in the playoffs with 1 TD and 3 INTs.


in such a short histroy of starts leaving those numbers out sure makes it seem better than it really was, lets not forget that as great a TJ was at moving around with better feet than Schaub his sack rate was worse
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Old 02-28-2013   #59
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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In your TJ stats are you leaving out his playoff games?
hmmmmm, what part of my post answers your question?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.
Since Matt did not play in a playoff game until his 9th season, I did not see the point of post-season rookie play in my comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs
Check out the drop in ppg Schaub to Yates and dont mention Dre because Schaub didnt see a drop in ppg without Dre.
yeah, nice, let's compare stats of a 5th round 3rd string rookie without an off-season to an 8-9 year veteran with years of experience with the same receivers. That's so academic and intellectually honest.

[/sarcasm]

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Yeah, he is, and leaving out 4 fumbles in the regular season. But he did say he's willing to overlook going against Ed Reed in the playoffs. TJ posted a 53.8 QB rating in the playoffs with 1 TD and 3 INTs.
Alright, throw those in there if it makes you feel better. Matt had 1 and TJ had 4. Not sure if those were lost or just fumbles, but makes no difference to me.

My point was not to advocate TJ Yates or act like he's something that he's not.

The point was that Schaub is not all that, and the fact that he can be compared to a backup QB is indicative of his not-even-close-to-elite status as an NFL QB.

I honestly do not understand what he has accomplished to warrant the homerish defense by so many Texans fans. Not a knock on you or anyone in particular, but I am not convinced in even the slightest way that he can or will do much more at 32 years old than play good enough regular season football to get us a post-season loss.

I wanted him to be great. But after January, I cannot wear blinders to Schaub's obvious handicaps as a QB. I'm a fan, just not that kind of fan.

BTW, Ed Reed has made lots of QBs look foolish. Perhaps that's why he's a first ballot HoFer?

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in such a short histroy of starts leaving those numbers out sure makes it seem better than it really was, lets not forget that as great a TJ was at moving around with better feet than Schaub his sack rate was worse
Yates is what he is right now, and has a 1-1 post season record just like our much heralded pedestrian starting QB.

Y'all can rip on TJ Yates all you want (I'm not his defender), but all it does is make Schaub that much more average in the bigger picture.

Like I have said on multiple occasions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
This for a 5th round 3rd string QB without an off-season or any reps that was thrown into the fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.
BTW, I understand that Schaub has no competition for a couple of years and will be our starting QB for probably two more seasons at minimum. He's wonderful that way and Kubiak woud not want to put a dent in his mental state.

Just don't get your hopes up that he has it in him to carry this team in any sort of way. Winning it all with Schaub will require all aspects of this team to play beyond what we have seen so far. The Ravens won their first SB with Trent Dilfer, so we have that to hope for, I guess.
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Old 02-28-2013   #60
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Default Re: Tom Brady extension

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Schaub did not show much as a rookie and that is why he was a back up like TJ.
This is so tired and weak. Schaub was drafted in behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one considered an "elite" QB. Even with that there were calls in Atlanta for Schaub to take over. Multiple reports at the time said they traded him away to end the controversy.
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