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Doppelmock Version 5.0: PreCombine Double Mock!

Doppelganger

Doppelganger

None
I thought it would be fun to do a mock before the combine. As I was sitting talking with my friend the other day, he said, "Dopp, what's better than a shot of whiskey...a Double shot of whiskey! What's better than a bock beer...A double Bock...whats better than going to see a good baseball team play...a double header...." so, what's better than a Doppelmock? A DoppelDoubleMock!

Mock 1

1. Larry Warford, OG Kentucky, 6'3, 333lbs, 5.37
Some people may think this is an overreach, but allow me to present my reasoning. Warford may not be the 27th ranked player, but I think he could be the 27th best player. He is a very, very good OG who would dramatically help this team. One thing we saw in the Superbowl was two offenses with very good OLs. Building a superior OL allows your QB time to throw and give your RB a hole to run the ball through. While Warmack gets the headlines because he played at Alabama, I think that Warford could be a better pro. Warrick had the benefit of playing next to super OL prospect Jones at Center and had top notch OT/OG prospect DJ Fluker as well. It would not surprise me if the entire Bama OL is drafted in the first round. Point is, he had a lot of help. Warfrod faced off against Sheldon Richardson, John Jenkins, and Sherif Floyd this year. They are three different types of DTs. Richardson is more of a 3-4 DE, Jenkins is a prototypical big bodied space eating NT, and Floyd is more of a penetrating, athletic 4-3 DT. Each matchup requires a different skill set. In each matchup, he completely shut down these likely first round DTs and took them out of the game. Even at Kentucky, each practice he went up against Mister Cobble, who some have described as a 330lb bowling ball. He is well prepared for the rigors of the NFL. Warford is a big OG with athleticism. He is a strong enough to take on the bigger NTs and quick enough to mirror pass rushers. He is a stout pass blocker and excellent in the run game. What makes him special is the ability to get downfield, get to that next level, and deliver a crushing block. That kind of block can turn a nice 12-15 yard gain into a 40-50 yarder or more. In my opinion he would be an excellent fit for the Kubiak's interpretation of the ZBS. Kubiak showed us last year he values bigger athletic OL selections. By taking a bigger, athletic OG with Brandon Brooks, he is saying that bigger athletic OGs are what the ZBS needs in order to deal with the massive agile NTs that are coming int the NFL. I think Warford steps right in and challenges for a starting spot from Day 1. I imagine he probably takes the RG spot to start with but I could easily see him as the LG replacing Smith too. An OL with Brooks and Warford as the OGs and Jones as the Center(down the line) transforms the ZBS for the 21st century. No longer will a 300lb OL get pushed around by a 330 lb NT.

2. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern, 6'1, 341lbs, 5.37
Brandon Williams is the kind of NT I have wanted the Texans to get for years. He is a big, athletic NT who can immediately help this defense. he is a stout run defender and can put pressure on the QB. He is not the traditional tub of goo NT, this guy has good footwork for a man his size. Previously, i thought of him as a 3rd round talent, but fifth round prospect due to his school and lack of perceived competition. All that changed when he went to the Senior Bowl. Williams showed he belonged with the big boys. In 2012 he had 68 tackles, 16.5 tackles for a loss, 8.5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. In 2011, he had 8 sacks and 35 tackles. In 2010 he had 9 sacks and 17 tackles for loss.25.5 sacks in 3 years as a 341lbs NT. I envision Williams as a 1st and 2nd down NT. He will prevent teams from running the ball down the Texan's throats so that third downs become third and longs rather than 3rd and 2 or 3. Plus on 3rd and short or 4th and short, Williams will be the glue that prevents the opposing offense from getting those critical yards.

3. Sean Porter, OLB, Texas A&M, 6'1, 231lbs, 4.69
When Von Miller was drafted, Porter became the 3-4 OLB to replace him. He put up 79 tackles with 17 tackles for a loss, 9.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble. Unfortunately for him, last year A&M changed schemes and became a 4-3 defense, switching Porter's role. Rather than being an attacking LB, he was asked to cover and tackle. He ended up with 66 tackles, 6.5 tackles for a loss, 3.5 sacks, four passes broken up and 1 interception. Porter's natural position is as an attacking OLB and that's where he needs to be. He would find a home in Wade's defense and would be a great situational OLB to start with. In time he would learn to play the run as well, but for Year 1, all he would be asked to do is come in on passing situations and rush the QB. You can never have enough dynamic passrushers, especially in a 3-4.

3. Marcus Davis, WR, Virginia Tech 6'4, 232, 4.45
Yes, the Texans drafted 2 WRs last year, but they didn't get someone like Davis. A big, athletic, fast WR like Davis would be a welcome sight. His numbers were not great, 51 receptions for 953 yards and five touchdowns, but also remember he had Logan Thomas throwing the ball to him. Considering Thomas completed about 59% of his passes which is atrocious. Had he been around 65%, Davis likely would have had another 150 yards and 4-5 touchdowns. Davis has 2nd round talent and only slides in a deep WR class.

4. Matt Scott, QB Arizona, 6'3, 195lbs, 4.77
I know this pick did not go over particularity well the first time around, but I still think he would be a good QB in this system. As I have gotten to know him, I have seen a guy who has the potential, if given the right coaching, to be special in the NFL. Scott numbers are reasonably good considering the weapons around him:3,620 yards with a 27/14 TD/INT ratio, passer completion of 60%. In addition he ran for 632 yards and 6 touchdowns. Altogether he had a 31/14 TD/turnover ratio. He has a good sized arm, a fast release, He is a pass first QB with the ability to run to keep defenses honest. He is a little light right now(around 195lbs) and would not be surprised to see him around 200lbs by the combine). This relatively lighter weight will work against him. Give him time in an NFL lifting program and I could see him around 215 lbs, which would be adequate for him. Scott's passing and running style reminds me of a young Jake Plummer. Having the ability to bootleg and then scamper out for extra yards is sorely lacking in the offense. Whenever Schaub bootlegs, everyone knows he is going to throw the ball deep. A player like Scott would keep defenses guessing since he could pick up first downs with his legs or arms. Longterm he is an upgrade over Yates who has not developed as I would have liked. In the preseason, Yates looked like he took a step backwards and I was not impressed with his play in the regular season game. Scott looks like he has more upside and potential than Yates. Scott, will not be ready for 2013. Schaub will almost certainly be the QB for 2013. However, after a year of tutelage, Scott may be ready to go in 2014 and if he develops could become a Jake the Snake.

5. Jake Stoneburner, TE, Ohio State, 6'5, 245, 4,71
Have you noticed that all the Texans TEs are basically the same type of player: good receiver solid blocker. Stoneburner is a better blocker than receiver and bring a wrinkle to the team. The Texans could use a blocking TE badly. Remember when they brought out OT Ryan Harris to play as a blocking TE? Getting an actual blocking TE would be more useful to the game. Having a blocking TE means that Daniels/Graham can focus on being a receiving target. Stoneburner can get a pass thrown his way every game to keep the defense honest. He wasn't given many opportunities to catch the ball as Myer pretty much used him as a blocking TE primarily(like he used Aaron Hernandez). However, like Hernandez, he has the ability to catch the ball and do damage. Yes, he was arrested, but it was for public urination and runnin from cops. It was a one time offense and in the grand scheme of things, not bad.

5. Bruce Taylor, ILB, Virginia Tech, 6'2, 244lbs, 4.73
If Barwin comes back, Reed plays next to Cush. If not, a healthy Sharpton plays next to Cush. In either case, I expect the front office to look for a cheap veteran ILB. Whatever happens, Taylor would be nice addition to the ILB depth. He had 76 tackles, 10.5 tackles for a loss, 1 forced fumble, 5 passes broken up and 5.5 sacks in 2012.
53 tackles, 7 tackles for a loss and f5 sacks in 2011(note he missed last 4 games due to ankle injury), 91 tackles with 15.5 tackles for a loss and 6 sacks in 2010. The key I like is the tackling, and passes broken up. He can play the pass and will need to in the Wade system. He initially can be a great Special teams contributor and in time depth or even part of the ILB rotation.

6.Ryan Allen, P, Louisiana Tech, 6'2, 215lbs.
The 2 time (2011 and 2012) Ray Guy award winner is just what this team needs. If yall have seen my mocks before, you know what I think of Donnie Jones. Upgrade here offers $ discount and quality upgrade.

7. Elvis Fisher, OT, Missouri, 6'5, 300lbs, 5.25
I feel bad for the guy, i really do. Second round talent doesn't fall this far unless there is a significant reason. In 2010 he completely stonewalled first rounder Adrian Clairborne and protected Blaine Gabbert's blindspot.He was an All-Big XII honorable mention at left tackle in 2009 and 2010 and headed for greatness. Sadly 2011 was completely wiped out due to a ruptured patellar tendon. In 2012, he sustained an MCL and had to get carted off the field. Clearly there are medical red flags with him. But, for a 7th round pick, I;d take a chance on him. If healthy, he has the potential for starting OT or super stud backup status. If unhealthy, he is a 7th round pick and little is lost. Classic low risk high reward player.

7. Zach Boren, FB/LB, Ohio State, 6'0 252lbs, 4.79
Yes, you read that right. Boren played LB as well a FB in college and could be used at either position. In the NFL I see him as an old school bust a whole type of FB. While Kubes likes the versatility of Casey, he doesn't throw him the ball all that often. Having a superior run blocker is better than having a superior athlete like Casey. Boren can open up holes for Foster or other RBs. He could also switch to LB if needed and can be a special teams contributor right away. Too much upside with him not to grab him here.

Mock 2 is in the next message.
 
Mock 2

1.Justin Hunter, WR, Tennessee, 6'4, 200lbs, 4.48
At the end of the day, I think the Texans will go BPA. Justin Hunter may be that guy at 27. I know there are some injury concerns(he had a knee surgically repaired in 2011, but he had a great 2012. When I evaluate a WR there are a few key things I am looking for: Size, speed, hands, and route running. Clearly size and speed are static. Its hard to get taller and its hard to get faster. hands and route running can be worked on. In an ideal world you get a big WR, with good hands, who has excellent speed, runs routes well, has no prior injury concerns, and has no red flags. The problem is the guy who meets all those criteria are Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson. Those guys went #3 and #2 overall and quite-frankly should have been the #1 picks their year. You won't get an AJ or CJ at 27. However, you can get a very good player who has the potential to be special. Based on the criteria I discussed, Hunter has size, hands, and runs the routes well. The question will be his speed. Prior to his injury he had elite speed. This past year at Tennessee he had good speed. He was able to get separation and get yards after the catch. Another big thing he showed this year was an ability and desire to block. He had 73 receptions for 1,083 yards and nine touchdowns in 2012 and looked a lot better as the year went on and he healed from his injury. He may not return to elite speed status, but he can be a very good NFL WR. Having him across from AJ as the #2 would be a great start from him. In a few years when AJ is ready to hang it up, Hunter slides into the #1 slot.

2. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern, 6'1, 341lbs, 5.37
Brandon Williams went to the Senior Bowl and made himself a lot of money. Previously thought of as a potential 4th or 5th rounder, Williams showed he belonged with the big boys. In 2012 he had 68 tackles, 16.5 tackles for a loss, 8.5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. In 2011, he had 8 sacks and 35 tackles. In 2010 he had 9 sacks and 17 tackles for loss.25.5 sacks in 3 years as a 341lbs NT. Williams showed that he is not a big tub of goo. He can move and it athletic. He will be a 2 down force and will prevent teams from running the ball down the Texan's throats.

3. Khaseem Greene, LB, Rutgers, 6'0, 236lbs, 4.63
A lot of people are projecting him to be a 4-3 OLB, so you may be asking why am I drafting a 4-3OLB? I am planning on converting him into an ILB who would play next to Cush. He is very athletic and can play North/South as well as East/West well. He is a good run defender and is a plus tackler. He can even be asked to blitz the QB. In his first 2 years he was a safety, so he has the ability to cover, knock down passes, tackle, and get INTs. In 2012 he had 136 tackles, 6 sacks, 6 forced fumbles, 5 passes batted,2 interceptions and 12 tackles for a loss. In 2011 he had 141 tackles, 14.5 tackles for a loss, 3.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. He would be an excellent 2 down ILB next to Cush. On 3rd and long, he would come off the field for an extra DB, but on 1st and second down he would help Williams prevent the Texans from getting gashed in the run game. With Williams in front of him, suddenly the Texans will find themselves in more 3rd and long rather than 3rd and 3 or less. In my mind, this is the guy who would be an excellent compliment to Cush.

3. Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford, 6'8, 265lbs, 4.62
He may not be available at this point in the draft. But if he is, I'd scoop him up. One thing we found out this past season is how important it is to have 2 good TEs on the team. When Graham went out, the team suffered. Now I like Graham and Daniels, but the problem is they are essentially the same player. Both are around 6'3 245lbs. Even Brock Logan, the Practice Squad TE is 6'3 245lbs. What makes the NE TE combo so dangerous is that they have two different types of TEs out there: the massive super athletic and powerful Gronk and the smaller shifty, sneaky Hernandez. Daniels, Graham, and Logan are all essentially a Hernandez. Toilolo is more of a Gronk type of TE. Toilolo had almost 14 yards per catch and 4 touchdowns in 2012. He has similar ypc and 6 tds in 2011. He was hurt by not having a QB like Luck. He is a bit raw in terms of route running and blocking but is smart enough to learn how to do it. Initially he would be the perfect player for 3rd and short and red zone plays. Throw the ball to the massive TE and he should be able to pick up the first down or touchdown. In time he could be part of a two TE set that Kubes likes to run so much.

4.Matt Scott, QB, Arizona, 6'3, 195lbs, 4.77
I know this pick did not go over particularity well the first time around, but I still think he would be a good QB in this system. As I have gotten to know him, I have seen a guy who has the potential, if given the right coaching, to be special in the NFL. Scott numbers are reasonably good considering the weapons around him:3,620 yards with a 27/14 TD/INT ratio, passer completion of 60%. In addition he ran for 632 yards and 6 touchdowns. Altogether he had a 31/14 TD/turnover ratio. He has a good sized arm, a fast release, He is a pass first QB with the ability to run to keep defenses honest. He is a little light right now(around 195lbs) and would not be surprised to see him around 200lbs by the combine). This relatively lighter weight will work against him. Give him time in an NFL lifting program and I could see him around 215 lbs, which would be adequate for him. Scott's passing and running style reminds me of a young Jake Plummer. Having the ability to bootleg and then scamper out for extra yards is sorely lacking in the offense. Whenever Schaub bootlegs, everyone knows he is going to throw the ball deep. A player like Scott would keep defenses guessing since he could pick up first downs with his legs or arms. Longterm he is an upgrade over Yates who has not developed as I would have liked. In the preseason, Yates looked like he took a step backwards and I was not impressed with his play in the regular season game. Scott looks like he has more upside and potential than Yates. Scott, will not be ready for 2013. Schaub will almost certainly be the QB for 2013. However, after a year of tutelage, Scott may be ready to go in 2014 and if he develops could become a Jake the Snake.

5.Garrett Gilkey, OG, Chadron State, 6'5, 314lbs, 5.29.
Sleeper prospect with the potential to be a contributor. Played LT for Chadron State for 3 years and was highly regarded. Went to the Senior Bowl and more than held his own against better competition. Gilkey likely has to kick into guard, but he is athletic, has good feet, and can be a good depth player. I am not sure he has what it takes to be a RT depth player, but he could be a great little project OG.

5. Quanterus Smith, DE, Western Kentucky, 6'5 249lbs, 4.69
I know he tore his ACL, but he is a player. 12.5 sacks in 2012, 38 tackles with 18.5 tackles for a loss and 3 forced fumbles were his stats prior to injury. He schooled my boy Alabama OT DJ Fluker. In 2011 he had 7.5 sacks, 38 tackles and 11 tackles for a loss. He had 47 tackles with four sacks in 2010. He is the kind of guy who may need a little extra time to heal, but once he is ready to go, look out!

6. Ryan Allen, P, Louisiana Tech, 6'2, 215lbs.
The 2 time (2011 and 2012) Ray Guy award winner is just what this team needs. If yall have seen my mocks before, you know what I think of Donnie Jones. Upgrade here offers $ discount and quality upgrade.

7.Darrington Sentimore, DE, Tennessee, 6'2, 288lbs, 5.03
Listed as a DT, I could see him fitting in better as a 3-4 DE. He has some pass rushing ability and can make tackles. He is raw. Was a backup at Alabama in 2009 and 2010 and then transferred to JUCO in 2011 and finally Tennessee in 2012. He would be a project that I would take a chance on in the 7th round. Low risk potentially high reward.

7. Zach Boren, FB/LB, Ohio State, 6'0 252lbs, 4.79
Yes, you read that right. Boren played LB as well a FB in college and could be used at either position. In the NFL I see him as an old school bust a whole type of FB. While Kubes likes the versatility of Casey, he doesn't throw him the ball all that often. Having a superior run blocker is better than having a superior athlete like Casey. Boren can open up holes for Foster or other RBs. He could also switch to LB if needed and can be a special teams contributor right away. Too much upside with him not to grab him here.

Final thoughts
Wow. If you made it all the way here, I am impressed. Sorry about breaking it up into 2 posts. Apparently my original post of 19,628 characters, was more than the allowable 15,000. Please leave feedback as I love the back and forth critical and respectful discussion that occurs in the mock draft forum!!!

:popcorn:

:wesmantexanfan:
 
Doppelganger said:
I thought it would be fun to do a mock before the combine. As I was sitting talking with my friend the other day, he said, "Dopp, what's better than a shot of whiskey...a Double shot of whiskey! What's better than a bock beer...A double Bock...whats better than going to see a good baseball team play...a double header...." so, what's better than a Doppelmock? A DoppelDoubleMock!

Mock 1

1. Larry Warford, OG Kentucky, 6'3, 333lbs, 5.37
Some people may think this is an overreach, but allow me to present my reasoning. Warford may not be the 27th ranked player, but I think he could be the 27th best player. He is a very, very good OG who would dramatically help this team. One thing we saw in the Superbowl was two offenses with very good OLs. Building a superior OL allows your QB time to throw and give your RB a hole to run the ball through. While Warmack gets the headlines because he played at Alabama, I think that Warford could be a better pro. Warrick had the benefit of playing next to super OL prospect Jones at Center and had top notch OT/OG prospect DJ Fluker as well. It would not surprise me if the entire Bama OL is drafted in the first round. Point is, he had a lot of help. Warfrod faced off against Sheldon Richardson, John Jenkins, and Sherif Floyd this year. They are three different types of DTs. Richardson is more of a 3-4 DE, Jenkins is a prototypical big bodied space eating NT, and Floyd is more of a penetrating, athletic 4-3 DT. Each matchup requires a different skill set. In each matchup, he completely shut down these likely first round DTs and took them out of the game. Even at Kentucky, each practice he went up against Mister Cobble, who some have described as a 330lb bowling ball. He is well prepared for the rigors of the NFL. Warford is a big OG with athleticism. He is a strong enough to take on the bigger NTs and quick enough to mirror pass rushers. He is a stout pass blocker and excellent in the run game. What makes him special is the ability to get downfield, get to that next level, and deliver a crushing block. That kind of block can turn a nice 12-15 yard gain into a 40-50 yarder or more. In my opinion he would be an excellent fit for the Kubiak's interpretation of the ZBS. Kubiak showed us last year he values bigger athletic OL selections. By taking a bigger, athletic OG with Brandon Brooks, he is saying that bigger athletic OGs are what the ZBS needs in order to deal with the massive agile NTs that are coming int the NFL. I think Warford steps right in and challenges for a starting spot from Day 1. I imagine he probably takes the RG spot to start with but I could easily see him as the LG replacing Smith too. An OL with Brooks and Warford as the OGs and Jones as the Center(down the line) transforms the ZBS for the 21st century. No longer will a 300lb OL get pushed around by a 330 lb NT.

man I like him too, dude is just a straight up mauler. if Texans had not spent a 3rd on Brooks last draft then I would be all in even if a few spots higher than he is projected.

2. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern, 6'1, 341lbs, 5.37
Brandon Williams is the kind of NT I have wanted the Texans to get for years. He is a big, athletic NT who can immediately help this defense. he is a stout run defender and can put pressure on the QB. He is not the traditional tub of goo NT, this guy has good footwork for a man his size. Previously, i thought of him as a 3rd round talent, but fifth round prospect due to his school and lack of perceived competition. All that changed when he went to the Senior Bowl. Williams showed he belonged with the big boys. In 2012 he had 68 tackles, 16.5 tackles for a loss, 8.5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. In 2011, he had 8 sacks and 35 tackles. In 2010 he had 9 sacks and 17 tackles for loss.25.5 sacks in 3 years as a 341lbs NT. I envision Williams as a 1st and 2nd down NT. He will prevent teams from running the ball down the Texan's throats so that third downs become third and longs rather than 3rd and 2 or 3. Plus on 3rd and short or 4th and short, Williams will be the glue that prevents the opposing offense from getting those critical yards.

I see you have him locked into second position both mocks, well if Texans want to address NT this looks more & more where they would need to select him. I see him as a more dynamic fit that Earl who if the season began tomorrow would be the starter. Therefore, I would support this pick in both mocks.

3. Sean Porter, OLB, Texas A&M, 6'1, 231lbs, 4.69
When Von Miller was drafted, Porter became the 3-4 OLB to replace him. He put up 79 tackles with 17 tackles for a loss, 9.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble. Unfortunately for him, last year A&M changed schemes and became a 4-3 defense, switching Porter's role. Rather than being an attacking LB, he was asked to cover and tackle. He ended up with 66 tackles, 6.5 tackles for a loss, 3.5 sacks, four passes broken up and 1 interception. Porter's natural position is as an attacking OLB and that's where he needs to be. He would find a home in Wade's defense and would be a great situational OLB to start with. In time he would learn to play the run as well, but for Year 1, all he would be asked to do is come in on passing situations and rush the QB. You can never have enough dynamic passrushers, especially in a 3-4.

I'll have to admit that I did not watch him enough to evaluate. Based off your breakdown he seems like a decent pick to add some speed & fortify the LB position with or without Barwin. I would probably opt for secondary here but still think you've selected a good player @ a position of need.

3. Marcus Davis, WR, Virginia Tech 6'4, 232, 4.45
Yes, the Texans drafted 2 WRs last year, but they didn't get someone like Davis. A big, athletic, fast WR like Davis would be a welcome sight. His numbers were not great, 51 receptions for 953 yards and five touchdowns, but also remember he had Logan Thomas throwing the ball to him. Considering Thomas completed about 59% of his passes which is atrocious. Had he been around 65%, Davis likely would have had another 150 yards and 4-5 touchdowns. Davis has 2nd round talent and only slides in a deep WR class.

Big WR, a little slow in separation, doesn't run pro route tree but tons of potential. A better option to grab Hunter in first than another developmental receiver, but just my opinion.

4. Matt Scott, QB Arizona, 6'3, 195lbs, 4.77
I know this pick did not go over particularity well the first time around, but I still think he would be a good QB in this system. As I have gotten to know him, I have seen a guy who has the potential, if given the right coaching, to be special in the NFL. Scott numbers are reasonably good considering the weapons around him:3,620 yards with a 27/14 TD/INT ratio, passer completion of 60%. In addition he ran for 632 yards and 6 touchdowns. Altogether he had a 31/14 TD/turnover ratio. He has a good sized arm, a fast release, He is a pass first QB with the ability to run to keep defenses honest. He is a little light right now(around 195lbs) and would not be surprised to see him around 200lbs by the combine). This relatively lighter weight will work against him. Give him time in an NFL lifting program and I could see him around 215 lbs, which would be adequate for him. Scott's passing and running style reminds me of a young Jake Plummer. Having the ability to bootleg and then scamper out for extra yards is sorely lacking in the offense. Whenever Schaub bootlegs, everyone knows he is going to throw the ball deep. A player like Scott would keep defenses guessing since he could pick up first downs with his legs or arms. Longterm he is an upgrade over Yates who has not developed as I would have liked. In the preseason, Yates looked like he took a step backwards and I was not impressed with his play in the regular season game. Scott looks like he has more upside and potential than Yates. Scott, will not be ready for 2013. Schaub will almost certainly be the QB for 2013. However, after a year of tutelage, Scott may be ready to go in 2014 and if he develops could become a Jake the Snake.

Arizona does produce some good QB prospects. I'm OK with him but like Dysert better.

5. Jake Stoneburner, TE, Ohio State, 6'5, 245, 4,71
Have you noticed that all the Texans TEs are basically the same type of player: good receiver solid blocker. Stoneburner is a better blocker than receiver and bring a wrinkle to the team. The Texans could use a blocking TE badly. Remember when they brought out OT Ryan Harris to play as a blocking TE? Getting an actual blocking TE would be more useful to the game. Having a blocking TE means that Daniels/Graham can focus on being a receiving target. Stoneburner can get a pass thrown his way every game to keep the defense honest. He wasn't given many opportunities to catch the ball as Myer pretty much used him as a blocking TE primarily(like he used Aaron Hernandez). However, like Hernandez, he has the ability to catch the ball and do damage. Yes, he was arrested, but it was for public urination and runnin from cops. It was a one time offense and in the grand scheme of things, not bad.

There are some good TE prospects in this draft just hope Texans hit on one of them?

5. Bruce Taylor, ILB, Virginia Tech, 6'2, 244lbs, 4.73
If Barwin comes back, Reed plays next to Cush. If not, a healthy Sharpton plays next to Cush. In either case, I expect the front office to look for a cheap veteran ILB. Whatever happens, Taylor would be nice addition to the ILB depth. He had 76 tackles, 10.5 tackles for a loss, 1 forced fumble, 5 passes broken up and 5.5 sacks in 2012.
53 tackles, 7 tackles for a loss and f5 sacks in 2011(note he missed last 4 games due to ankle injury), 91 tackles with 15.5 tackles for a loss and 6 sacks in 2010. The key I like is the tackling, and passes broken up. He can play the pass and will need to in the Wade system. He initially can be a great Special teams contributor and in time depth or even part of the ILB rotation.

Excellent ILB pick late, like it.

6.Ryan Allen, P, Louisiana Tech, 6'2, 215lbs.
The 2 time (2011 and 2012) Ray Guy award winner is just what this team needs. If yall have seen my mocks before, you know what I think of Donnie Jones. Upgrade here offers $ discount and quality upgrade.

Punter a must. Really impressed with the UCLA kid however but Allen is a solid one for sure.

7. Elvis Fisher, OT, Missouri, 6'5, 300lbs, 5.25
I feel bad for the guy, i really do. Second round talent doesn't fall this far unless there is a significant reason. In 2010 he completely stonewalled first rounder Adrian Clairborne and protected Blaine Gabbert's blindspot.He was an All-Big XII honorable mention at left tackle in 2009 and 2010 and headed for greatness. Sadly 2011 was completely wiped out due to a ruptured patellar tendon. In 2012, he sustained an MCL and had to get carted off the field. Clearly there are medical red flags with him. But, for a 7th round pick, I;d take a chance on him. If healthy, he has the potential for starting OT or super stud backup status. If unhealthy, he is a 7th round pick and little is lost. Classic low risk high reward player.

Another developmental OT pick. What are the odds than Mondek gets his shot next season?

7. Zach Boren, FB/LB, Ohio State, 6'0 252lbs, 4.79
Yes, you read that right. Boren played LB as well a FB in college and could be used at either position. In the NFL I see him as an old school bust a whole type of FB. While Kubes likes the versatility of Casey, he doesn't throw him the ball all that often. Having a superior run blocker is better than having a superior athlete like Casey. Boren can open up holes for Foster or other RBs. He could also switch to LB if needed and can be a special teams contributor right away. Too much upside with him not to grab him here.

Can't really go wrong with a football player like Boren. Would strengthen LB's & special teams. Plus can fill in FB role if needed.

Mock 2 is in the next message.
Click to expand...

Of course excellent work once again, your just missing on the secondary :wesmantexanfan:
 
Last edited:
Doppelganger said:
Mock 2

1.Justin Hunter, WR, Tennessee, 6'4, 200lbs, 4.48
At the end of the day, I think the Texans will go BPA. Justin Hunter may be that guy at 27. I know there are some injury concerns(he had a knee surgically repaired in 2011, but he had a great 2012. When I evaluate a WR there are a few key things I am looking for: Size, speed, hands, and route running. Clearly size and speed are static. Its hard to get taller and its hard to get faster. hands and route running can be worked on. In an ideal world you get a big WR, with good hands, who has excellent speed, runs routes well, has no prior injury concerns, and has no red flags. The problem is the guy who meets all those criteria are Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson. Those guys went #3 and #2 overall and quite-frankly should have been the #1 picks their year. You won't get an AJ or CJ at 27. However, you can get a very good player who has the potential to be special. Based on the criteria I discussed, Hunter has size, hands, and runs the routes well. The question will be his speed. Prior to his injury he had elite speed. This past year at Tennessee he had good speed. He was able to get separation and get yards after the catch. Another big thing he showed this year was an ability and desire to block. He had 73 receptions for 1,083 yards and nine touchdowns in 2012 and looked a lot better as the year went on and he healed from his injury. He may not return to elite speed status, but he can be a very good NFL WR. Having him across from AJ as the #2 would be a great start from him. In a few years when AJ is ready to hang it up, Hunter slides into the #1 slot.

Like that you have identified WR in 1st. He can stretch the field & take the top off a defense that is important for a first round WR. Will watch his combine performance closely. Top hole to address on roster.

2. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern, 6'1, 341lbs, 5.37
Brandon Williams went to the Senior Bowl and made himself a lot of money. Previously thought of as a potential 4th or 5th rounder, Williams showed he belonged with the big boys. In 2012 he had 68 tackles, 16.5 tackles for a loss, 8.5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. In 2011, he had 8 sacks and 35 tackles. In 2010 he had 9 sacks and 17 tackles for loss.25.5 sacks in 3 years as a 341lbs NT. Williams showed that he is not a big tub of goo. He can move and it athletic. He will be a 2 down force and will prevent teams from running the ball down the Texan's throats.

OK if the first time wasn't enough here he is for second time, locked & loaded. Pack your bag, glove, bowling ball & shoes let's knock down some pins.

3. Khaseem Greene, LB, Rutgers, 6'0, 236lbs, 4.63
A lot of people are projecting him to be a 4-3 OLB, so you may be asking why am I drafting a 4-3OLB? I am planning on converting him into an ILB who would play next to Cush. He is very athletic and can play North/South as well as East/West well. He is a good run defender and is a plus tackler. He can even be asked to blitz the QB. In his first 2 years he was a safety, so he has the ability to cover, knock down passes, tackle, and get INTs. In 2012 he had 136 tackles, 6 sacks, 6 forced fumbles, 5 passes batted,2 interceptions and 12 tackles for a loss. In 2011 he had 141 tackles, 14.5 tackles for a loss, 3.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. He would be an excellent 2 down ILB next to Cush. On 3rd and long, he would come off the field for an extra DB, but on 1st and second down he would help Williams prevent the Texans from getting gashed in the run game. With Williams in front of him, suddenly the Texans will find themselves in more 3rd and long rather than 3rd and 3 or less. In my mind, this is the guy who would be an excellent compliment to Cush.

My favorite LB prospect in this whole draft, tell me Texans can add him too, maybe use some of these picks to move up & get him.

3. Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford, 6'8, 265lbs, 4.62
He may not be available at this point in the draft. But if he is, I'd scoop him up. One thing we found out this past season is how important it is to have 2 good TEs on the team. When Graham went out, the team suffered. Now I like Graham and Daniels, but the problem is they are essentially the same player. Both are around 6'3 245lbs. Even Brock Logan, the Practice Squad TE is 6'3 245lbs. What makes the NE TE combo so dangerous is that they have two different types of TEs out there: the massive super athletic and powerful Gronk and the smaller shifty, sneaky Hernandez. Daniels, Graham, and Logan are all essentially a Hernandez. Toilolo is more of a Gronk type of TE. Toilolo had almost 14 yards per catch and 4 touchdowns in 2012. He has similar ypc and 6 tds in 2011. He was hurt by not having a QB like Luck. He is a bit raw in terms of route running and blocking but is smart enough to learn how to do it. Initially he would be the perfect player for 3rd and short and red zone plays. Throw the ball to the massive TE and he should be able to pick up the first down or touchdown. In time he could be part of a two TE set that Kubes likes to run so much.

We can't trade compensatory picks so he would help in blocking schemes, outlet & underneath zones plus much needed red zone help. Little high to address TE but I can see his value in this offense.

4.Matt Scott, QB, Arizona, 6'3, 195lbs, 4.77
I know this pick did not go over particularity well the first time around, but I still think he would be a good QB in this system. As I have gotten to know him, I have seen a guy who has the potential, if given the right coaching, to be special in the NFL. Scott numbers are reasonably good considering the weapons around him:3,620 yards with a 27/14 TD/INT ratio, passer completion of 60%. In addition he ran for 632 yards and 6 touchdowns. Altogether he had a 31/14 TD/turnover ratio. He has a good sized arm, a fast release, He is a pass first QB with the ability to run to keep defenses honest. He is a little light right now(around 195lbs) and would not be surprised to see him around 200lbs by the combine). This relatively lighter weight will work against him. Give him time in an NFL lifting program and I could see him around 215 lbs, which would be adequate for him. Scott's passing and running style reminds me of a young Jake Plummer. Having the ability to bootleg and then scamper out for extra yards is sorely lacking in the offense. Whenever Schaub bootlegs, everyone knows he is going to throw the ball deep. A player like Scott would keep defenses guessing since he could pick up first downs with his legs or arms. Longterm he is an upgrade over Yates who has not developed as I would have liked. In the preseason, Yates looked like he took a step backwards and I was not impressed with his play in the regular season game. Scott looks like he has more upside and potential than Yates. Scott, will not be ready for 2013. Schaub will almost certainly be the QB for 2013. However, after a year of tutelage, Scott may be ready to go in 2014 and if he develops could become a Jake the Snake.

I could maybe buy this pick if we had a different HC. Just doesn't seem to fit Kubiak mold to me but I could be wrong.

5.Garrett Gilkey, OG, Chadron State, 6'5, 314lbs, 5.29.
Sleeper prospect with the potential to be a contributor. Played LT for Chadron State for 3 years and was highly regarded. Went to the Senior Bowl and more than held his own against better competition. Gilkey likely has to kick into guard, but he is athletic, has good feet, and can be a good depth player. I am not sure he has what it takes to be a RT depth player, but he could be a great little project OG.

I didn't really notice him that much but probably because the network just focused on bigger names. seems like a real solid pick/value here however.

5. Quanterus Smith, DE, Western Kentucky, 6'5 249lbs, 4.69
I know he tore his ACL, but he is a player. 12.5 sacks in 2012, 38 tackles with 18.5 tackles for a loss and 3 forced fumbles were his stats prior to injury. He schooled my boy Alabama OT DJ Fluker. In 2011 he had 7.5 sacks, 38 tackles and 11 tackles for a loss. He had 47 tackles with four sacks in 2010. He is the kind of guy who may need a little extra time to heal, but once he is ready to go, look out!

He would probably begin on the pup list, but if you really feel strong about his value moving forward he might just be worth the wait?

6. Ryan Allen, P, Louisiana Tech, 6'2, 215lbs.
The 2 time (2011 and 2012) Ray Guy award winner is just what this team needs. If yall have seen my mocks before, you know what I think of Donnie Jones. Upgrade here offers $ discount and quality upgrade.

Again, thought Jeff Locke severely outplayed Allen in the Senior Bowl & all week in practice.

7.Darrington Sentimore, DE, Tennessee, 6'2, 288lbs, 5.03
Listed as a DT, I could see him fitting in better as a 3-4 DE. He has some pass rushing ability and can make tackles. He is raw. Was a backup at Alabama in 2009 and 2010 and then transferred to JUCO in 2011 and finally Tennessee in 2012. He would be a project that I would take a chance on in the 7th round. Low risk potentially high reward.

Above average crop, Texans should add one somewhere in this draft.

7. Zach Boren, FB/LB, Ohio State, 6'0 252lbs, 4.79
Yes, you read that right. Boren played LB as well a FB in college and could be used at either position. In the NFL I see him as an old school bust a whole type of FB. While Kubes likes the versatility of Casey, he doesn't throw him the ball all that often. Having a superior run blocker is better than having a superior athlete like Casey. Boren can open up holes for Foster or other RBs. He could also switch to LB if needed and can be a special teams contributor right away. Too much upside with him not to grab him here.

I would change this one up just cause there are a lot of prospects who will still be available & as of yet you have not addressed the secondary. It too is an above average class.

Final thoughts
Wow. If you made it all the way here, I am impressed. Sorry about breaking it up into 2 posts. Apparently my original post of 19,628 characters, was more than the allowable 15,000. Please leave feedback as I love the back and forth critical and respectful discussion that occurs in the mock draft forum!!!

:popcorn:

:wesmantexanfan:
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I like this one just a little better because you addressed WR which is key early. Seems your pretty set with Brandon, apparently. Love Greene, I would take him over Brandon myself or as I proposed maybe Texans do a little consolidation of picks to hit key holes left after free agency? Anyways keep up the work, always a pleasure :wesmantexanfan:
 
I like your 2nd mock better than the 1st one, and it seemed like a more likely draft scenario by the Texans IMO. The only problem is I don't think Brandon Williams will be there for the Texans in the 2nd. And, if he has the Combine many are saying he could have, he may not be there for them in the 1st. If he does get graded a 1st rounder and he's still there at #27 along with Hunter and Warford, who would you pick? And, who do you think the Texans would pick?
 
I motors porter to us Inman earlier mock. I don't see a star type player, but looks to be solid overall. I actually think he could play the wilb next to Cushing and that's what I mocked him as.
 
beerlover said:
man I like him too, dude is just a straight up mauler. if Texans had not spent a 3rd on Brooks last draft then I would be all in even if a few spots higher than he is projected.
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He is. He is athletic, powerful, and cannot be pushed around. Imagine an OL where the interior have behemoths like Brooks and Warford. The Ngatas and Wilforks of the NFL will no longer be able to throw the Texans OL like rag dolls!

beerlover said:
I see you have him locked into second position both mocks, well if Texans want to address NT this looks more & more where they would need to select him. I see him as a more dynamic fit that Earl who if the season began tomorrow would be the starter. Therefore, I would support this pick in both mocks.
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I would not be surprised if he kicked ass at the combine and then shot up into the first round. Big NTs with atheleticism, no injury history, and clean records tend to go high. The big knock on him was that he was a small school guy and didn't face elite competition. The Senior Bowl did a lot to show he has the stuff. If he is there in the second, I'd take him. A larger NT who can put pressure on the QB yet still be able to be a clog in the middle of the field is huge. If he can also tie up a couple of OL, that means someone else on the DL or a LB will have a free run at the QB. THAT is huge.

beerlover said:
I'll have to admit that I did not watch him enough to evaluate. Based off your breakdown he seems like a decent pick to add some speed & fortify the LB position with or without Barwin. I would probably opt for secondary here but still think you've selected a good player @ a position of need.
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I think Barwin is as good as gone. Mercilus will step into the starting spot opposite Reed. Braman, Nading, and Porter would provide solid depth/rotation. Porter is not the second coming of Elvis Dumervil or Von Miller, but he is a talented pass rusher who represents good vlaue in the third.

beerlover said:
Big WR, a little slow in separation, doesn't run pro route tree but tons of potential. A better option to grab Hunter in first than another developmental receiver, but just my opinion.
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Yes, he has tons of potential and represents something the Texans really do not have. Routes can certainly be improved and there are little tricks he can pick up that will help with separation.

beerlover said:
Arizona does produce some good QB prospects. I'm OK with him but like Dysert better.
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I think he has a lot of potential. Frankly I think he is a better prospect than Yates. I would trade Yates(if I could) and draft him. Movement, arm, accuracy, and potential for picking up yards on the ground all make me think he is a good fit for this system.

beerlover said:
There are some good TE prospects in this draft just hope Texans hit on one of them?
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This is a surprisingly good draft for TEs. I have a feeling that Casey will head for greener pastures ths removing TE 3 from the roster. I would not dump on Kubes for taking a TE this time around!

beerlover said:
Excellent ILB pick late, like it.
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To me he is BPA and in a need of position. Hard to dislike him as a player.

beerlover said:
Punter a must. Really impressed with the UCLA kid however but Allen is a solid one for sure.
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I am very impressed with Locke too. Unfortunately, I think he goes earlier. Last year the Jags took a punter in the 3rd round and he may have been their best player. With a precedent set, I could see Locke sneak into the 4th or 5th round.

beerlover said:
Another developmental OT pick. What are the odds than Mondek gets his shot next season?
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The knock on Mondek is he couldn't make the PS. Newton and other later round OL developmental prospects have been able to stay on the PS all year. Considering how thin the Texans got at OT, Mondek should have been a lock to be on the PS. The fact that he couldn't stay on the PS suggests he may not be nearly as ready as Kubes and the coaching staff were hoping.

beerlover said:
Can't really go wrong with a football player like Boren. Would strengthen LB's & special teams. Plus can fill in FB role if needed.
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That's what I like about him:versatility. As i previously said, I think Casey is on his way out. Clutte would be the only FB on the roster. I don't recall seeing him do anything of substance this year. Perhaps Boren can win the job outright?

beerlover said:
Of course excellent work once again, your just missing on the secondary :wesmantexanfan:
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Thanks!

I just couldn't find a place to go with secondary. Where would you suggest I make a secondary pick?
 
Insideop said:
I like your 2nd mock better than the 1st one, and it seemed like a more likely draft scenario by the Texans IMO. The only problem is I don't think Brandon Williams will be there for the Texans in the 2nd. And, if he has the Combine many are saying he could have, he may not be there for them in the 1st. If he does get graded a 1st rounder and he's still there at #27 along with Hunter and Warford, who would you pick? And, who do you think the Texans would pick?
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Let's play a numbers game. How many WRs, DTs, and OGs have been selected in the first 2 rounds in the last 5 years?

WRs: 9, 7, 4, 8, 9
DTs:6, 6, 9, 4, 3
OGs:5, 2, 1, 0, 1

The mean number of WRs taken is 7.4. The mean number of DTs taken is 5.6. The mean number of OGs taken is 1.8 with last year potentially being an outlier.

How many quality WRs prspects would I be happy with in the first 2 rounds? 12: Allen, Williams, Austin, Hopkins, Hunter, Patterson, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton. How about DTs? 5: Lotulelei, Hankins, Williams, Williams, and Jenkins. How about OGs?: 5: Warmack, Warford, Fluker, Cooper, and Thomas.

If my math is correct and history repeats itself, 7 WRs, 6 DTs, and 2 OGs will go in the first 2 rounds. Logic suggests that all 5 DTs I like could be gone by the Texans second pick, 5 WRs may be available, and 3 OGs could be had.

Thus, if all were equal, I would take NT Brandon Williams with the 1st rounde and then take the best WR on my board in the 2nd round. OG would have to be addressed in the 3rd or later.
 
I think I like Brandon Williams; he may or may not be there at our spot.

I like Marcus Davis, but with this many receivers available, he may go a little lower. With a comp pick in the third, however, I wouldn't mind taking him at all.
He has a long shot to become a number one since he's still raw at the position.

Letoito, I also think we can wait a little longer since it's not an absolute need and also because there are other guys out there, too.

Personally, I think this draft is pretty deep.
It's a good time for us, too.
I don't think the 2014 class is as good unless a lot of underclassmen come out.
 
Doppelganger said:
Let's play a numbers game. How many WRs, DTs, and OGs have been selected in the first 2 rounds in the last 5 years?

WRs: 9, 7, 4, 8, 9
DTs:6, 6, 9, 4, 3
OGs:5, 2, 1, 0, 1

The mean number of WRs taken is 7.4. The mean number of DTs taken is 5.6. The mean number of OGs taken is 1.8 with last year potentially being an outlier.

How many quality WRs prspects would I be happy with in the first 2 rounds? 12: Allen, Williams, Austin, Hopkins, Hunter, Patterson, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton. How about DTs? 5: Lotulelei, Hankins, Williams, Williams, and Jenkins. How about OGs?: 5: Warmack, Warford, Fluker, Cooper, and Thomas.

If my math is correct and history repeats itself, 7 WRs, 6 DTs, and 2 OGs will go in the first 2 rounds. Logic suggests that all 5 DTs I like could be gone by the Texans second pick, 5 WRs may be available, and 3 OGs could be had.

Thus, if all were equal, I would take NT Brandon Williams with the 1st rounde and then take the best WR on my board in the 2nd round. OG would have to be addressed in the 3rd or later.
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I agree in principal, but you have to look more closely. This could easily be an outlier year and you might have more teams drafting a certain position based need or perceived value.

Also, setting aside what other teams might do we need to take the player that will help us the most.

There are a lot of variables. What you mention is really just one variable to look at, but should be considered.
 
76Texan said:
I think I like Brandon Williams; he may or may not be there at our spot.

I like Marcus Davis, but with this many receivers available, he may go a little lower. With a comp pick in the third, however, I wouldn't mind taking him at all.
He has a long shot to become a number one since he's still raw at the position.

Letoito, I also think we can wait a little longer since it's not an absolute need and also because there are other guys out there, too.

Personally, I think this draft is pretty deep.
It's a good time for us, too.
I don't think the 2014 class is as good unless a lot of underclassmen come out.
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Agreed

Even though I want to fix the offense 1st, if Datone Jones or Brandon Williams are there, you take them. BPA If the Texans were to pick Jones in the 1st and by some stroke of luck Williams fell to the 2nd, you take both of them. That would instantly improve the pass rush and against the run. If this were to happen would you cut A.Smith and sign a top tier FA WR? Or would you sign a guy like Rames-Barden and draft a guy like Hamilton or Tavares King in the 3-4th rd?

I haven't studied the 2014 draft at all. But I read that it's one of the best in a long time if you need an OT. This is why I think the Texans wont draft an OT high this yr. They might sign a low cost vet FA OT, run with Newton in 2013 and draft an OT in 2014. If they're smart. IMHO
 
Doppelganger said:
Thanks!

I just couldn't find a place to go with secondary. Where would you suggest I make a secondary pick?
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Good Takes!

Give me Patton in 1st Brandon Williams in 2nd & Loche in 5th. Regarding Secondary, rounds 3-4. like the Nevada saftey in 4th as example. Could be edge, big & physical CB or compact, quick to fill nickel role just add a ballhawk in this secondary somewhere.
 
Always my favorite drafts.

Huge fan of both 1st round picks. Maybe take Hunter with our pick then trade into early 2nd for Warford.
 
beerlover said:
Good Takes!

Give me Patton in 1st Brandon Williams in 2nd & Loche in 5th. Regarding Secondary, rounds 3-4. like the Nevada saftey in 4th as example. Could be edge, big & physical CB or compact, quick to fill nickel role just add a ballhawk in this secondary somewhere.
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I think if you want Williams you will have to spend a 1st after the combine.

Likewise, Patton will probably run in the 4.55 range which will drop him to the 2nd.

Williams intrigues me. He kinda reminds me of Brian Dawkins. A guy who will go in the 3/4th rd range and be a 10 yr starter. (Dawkins went in the 3rd)
 
steelbtexan said:
I think if you want Williams you will have to spend a 1st after the combine.

Likewise, Patton will probably run in the 4.55 range which will drop him to the 2nd.

Williams intrigues me. He kinda reminds me of Brian Dawkins. A guy who will go in the 3/4th rd range and be a 10 yr starter. (Dawkins went in the 3rd)
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I'm not looking for "stars of the combine" solid numbers yes, but not buying into the hype, at least just yet.

I would like to see more speed from Quinton, but his savy more than makes up for that plus I like the way he attacks the ball. With lame ducks Schaub throws he needs receivers that work to the ball & don't allow defenders to jump routes. I think his numbers even as a rookie, in the right situation could be tops in class next to Hopkins. He can also return punts & kickoffs. When all is said & done in a couple years no one will care Texans used a first on him because he will be leading the team in receptions & be a playmaker. Isn't that what we need?

Kipper agrees - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...r-selling-expert-picks-for-every-team/page/28
 
I like king in the 3rd,but when he runs at the combine and people go rewatch the tape,he's gonna go in the mid to late 2nd to 3rd.
 
Doppelganger said:
Let's play a numbers game. How many WRs, DTs, and OGs have been selected in the first 2 rounds in the last 5 years?

WRs: 9, 7, 4, 8, 9
DTs:6, 6, 9, 4, 3
OGs:5, 2, 1, 0, 1

The mean number of WRs taken is 7.4. The mean number of DTs taken is 5.6. The mean number of OGs taken is 1.8 with last year potentially being an outlier.

How many quality WRs prspects would I be happy with in the first 2 rounds? 12: Allen, Williams, Austin, Hopkins, Hunter, Patterson, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton. How about DTs? 5: Lotulelei, Hankins, Williams, Williams, and Jenkins. How about OGs?: 5: Warmack, Warford, Fluker, Cooper, and Thomas.

If my math is correct and history repeats itself, 7 WRs, 6 DTs, and 2 OGs will go in the first 2 rounds. Logic suggests that all 5 DTs I like could be gone by the Texans second pick, 5 WRs may be available, and 3 OGs could be had.

Thus, if all were equal, I would take NT Brandon Williams with the 1st rounde and then take the best WR on my board in the 2nd round. OG would have to be addressed in the 3rd or later.
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Yep! That would be my choice too. My fear is that Williams will continue to rise but most will grade him out as an early to mid 2nd rounder, where he falls into that void. Question is, do we still take him in the 1st, or wait and try to move up in the 2nd? If this is the case, my guess is that we will go after a WR or ILB/OLB in the 1st, and then try to move up in the 2nd since we should have a bunch of compensatory picks later on. And this, obviously, opens up a whole new set of questions. Who else is looking for a NT like B. Williams and how far up do we have to go to get him? Who is there that wants to trade with us? How much (draft picks) is it going to take to move up?
 
Insideop said:
Yep! That would be my choice too. My fear is that Williams will continue to rise but most will grade him out as an early to mid 2nd rounder, where he falls into that void. Question is, do we still take him in the 1st, or wait and try to move up in the 2nd? If this is the case, my guess is that we will go after a WR or ILB/OLB in the 1st, and then try to move up in the 2nd since we should have a bunch of compensatory picks later on. And this, obviously, opens up a whole new set of questions. Who else is looking for a NT like B. Williams and how far up do we have to go to get him? Who is there that wants to trade with us? How much (draft picks) is it going to take to move up?
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This is a similar mentality that netted Posey in 3rd instead of Randell in the 2nd. I just don't think the Texans can risk being cute & bypass or lose a shot @ clearly superior WR prospects given state of franchise needs.
 
beerlover said:
This is a similar mentality that netted Posey in 3rd instead of Randell in the 2nd. I just don't think the Texans can risk being cute & bypass or lose a shot @ clearly superior WR prospects given state of franchise needs.
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I think Williams could be a huge upgrade at NT and will enormously help this D. By the time the combine finishes, I think he will grade out as a first rounder. If he is available, I say take him. There are not a lot of really good NT prospects with size and athleticism. One thing you don't want to do is grab a player of need ahead of BPA. In 2004 the Texans passed on Vince Wilfork because they felt they had a big need at CB. They selected Dunta Robinson.

There are 12 really good WR options(pre combine).

Allen, Williams, Austin, Hopkins, Hunter, Patterson, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton. Let's say that Allen for sure goes before #27 and Patterson likely as well. That leaves 10 options. If Brandon Williams is taken at 27, the Texans can then use a non compensatory pick to move up from end of the second to middle of the second (say around 12-16). At that point, Hopkins and Williams are also probably gone. However, they should be able to get at least 1 option out of Hunter, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton.

A combo of Brandon Williams plus one of the other WRs may be a better combo than WR in the first and another position in the second.
 
Doppelganger said:
I think Williams could be a huge upgrade at NT and will enormously help this D. By the time the combine finishes, I think he will grade out as a first rounder. If he is available, I say take him. There are not a lot of really good NT prospects with size and athleticism. One thing you don't want to do is grab a player of need ahead of BPA. In 2004 the Texans passed on Vince Wilfork because they felt they had a big need at CB. They selected Dunta Robinson.

There are 12 really good WR options(pre combine).

Allen, Williams, Austin, Hopkins, Hunter, Patterson, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton. Let's say that Allen for sure goes before #27 and Patterson likely as well. That leaves 10 options. If Brandon Williams is taken at 27, the Texans can then use a non compensatory pick to move up from end of the second to middle of the second (say around 12-16). At that point, Hopkins and Williams are also probably gone. However, they should be able to get at least 1 option out of Hunter, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton.

A combo of Brandon Williams plus one of the other WRs may be a better combo than WR in the first and another position in the second.
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Very valid points. I can track along with your very astute reasoning, however please consider this- Gary Kubiak & Matt Schaubs foreheads are in Rick Smith cross-hairs. As much as I agree with you, I expect the front office to give Mattie "not ice" one more shot as well QB guru Kubiak every opportunity to succeed.

Best way to save their collective a$$ is steller WR play opposite Andre Johnson. Owner wants it. FO wants it. Fans want it. If they pass on player like Patton it will be their destiny to fail.
 
beerlover said:
Very valid points. I can track along with your very astute reasoning, however please consider this- Gary Kubiak & Matt Schaubs foreheads are in Rick Smith cross-hairs. As much as I agree with you, I expect the front office to give Mattie "not ice" one more shot as well QB guru Kubiak every opportunity to succeed.

Best way to save their collective a$$ is steller WR play opposite Andre Johnson. Owner wants it. FO wants it. Fans want it. If they pass on player like Patton it will be their destiny to fail.
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As much as people around here want or think that Kubes is on the "hot seat" or in the "cross hairs" I don't think he is. After a 12-4 season and back to back playoff appearances, not to mention that McNair like Kubes, I don't think he's going anywhere yet. And, even if he has a bad season this year, say 6-10, I still don't think Smith/McNair fires him. Now Schaub, that's another story.... JMO!
 
Insideop said:
As much as people around here want or think that Kubes is on the "hot seat" or in the "cross hairs" I don't think he is. After a 12-4 season and back to back playoff appearances, not to mention that McNair like Kubes, I don't think he's going anywhere yet. And, even if he has a bad season this year, say 6-10, I still don't think Smith/McNair fires him. Now Schaub, that's another story.... JMO!
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Strongly disagree. Kubiak & Schaub are joined at the hip. Thankfully Gary turned down a long term deal, instead opting for 3 year extension. One year down. If they go 6-10 as suggested, search is on. Lame duck HC. Big expiring contracts, give me some hope.
 
beerlover said:
Very valid points. I can track along with your very astute reasoning, however please consider this- Gary Kubiak & Matt Schaubs foreheads are in Rick Smith cross-hairs. As much as I agree with you, I expect the front office to give Mattie "not ice" one more shot as well QB guru Kubiak every opportunity to succeed.

Best way to save their collective a$$ is steller WR play opposite Andre Johnson. Owner wants it. FO wants it. Fans want it. If they pass on player like Patton it will be their destiny to fail.
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I can definitely see your reasoning. At the end of the day, I would not be surprised if they went WR. However, if I was in the room with them, I would argue strongly for Williams. I would point to Wade Phillips and say that until Wade got here, the team stunk. The magical run of 2011 wasn't because of the offense, it was the result of the Defense playing lights out. The 2012 run to 11-1 wasn't the product of an overwhelming offense, it was the result of a swarming and smothering defense. The offense scored because the defense gave them short fields to work with. When the Defense lost too many parts, the offense was unable to pick up the slack because it is an average(at best) offense. When the team went to Chicago, the Defense won the game. When the Texans played the Ravens, the Defense shut out the opposing offense and gave the offense a chance.

The defense is much closer to elite than the offense. A player of Williams caliber, a healthy Cushing, and a healthy Joseph have the potential to make this defense downright scary. As much as Gary, Rick, the rest of the front office, Mr. McNair, and perhaps even some fans may want this to be an offensive team, its clearly a defensive one. Wade has made two defensive first round pick for Htown(Watt and Mercilus and throw in Reed as a high second) and they have been great. Watt looked phenomenal and Mercilus looked better than Barwin in less than a third of the snaps. Simply put, I trust Wade who has done an excellent job selecting talent.

Yes, a very good WR is needed (and I advocate that in the second via tradeup.) My concern is that Kubes will try to be smarter than everyone else and take a Devier Posey when Mohamed Sanu or Nick Toon was available.
 
beerlover said:
Strongly disagree. Kubiak & Schaub are joined at the hip. Thankfully Gary turned down a long term deal, instead opting for 3 year extension. One year down. If they go 6-10 as suggested, search is on. Lame duck HC. Big expiring contracts, give me some hope.
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That is absolutely not true .... He wont come out and say it but they can and will should the need arise get away from Schaub's contract after the coming season without too much damage to the cap in the form ofdead money.
 
Corrosion said:
That is absolutely not true .... He wont come out and say it but they can and will should the need arise get away from Schaub's contract after the coming season without too much damage to the cap in the form ofdead money.
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was the contract for Schaub Gary's idea or someone else's? I agree with Beerlover that the two are attached. Now Gary could be forced to let Matt go as he was forced to allow coaches to depart and to Wade's hiring.
 
badboy said:
was the contract for Schaub Gary's idea or someone else's? I agree with Beerlover that the two are attached. Now Gary could be forced to let Matt go as he was forced to allow coaches to depart and to Wade's hiring.
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That was a group decision between McNair , Smith and Kubiak.

Gary isnt joined at the hip with any player .... If they can upgrade they will , if a player isnt worth his contract or cap hit he'll be gone or didnt this past season show us anything with Ryans and Winston cut.

The team did say they would consider drafting a QB should they have the opportunity to draft one they like. That in itself should tell you they will move on from Schaub if need be.


As for Schaub - Who was available prior to his extention that is a clear upgrade ? Who is available right now thats a clear upgrade ?!

That contract is pretty damn team friendly by QB standards and when he signed that deal , they were putting up 30 a game ... Sure hindsight is 20/20 but again , who are you going to replace him with thats not going to set the team back a year or two when they are contenders for a superbowl.
 
Corrosion said:
That was a group decision between McNair , Smith and Kubiak.

Gary isnt joined at the hip with any player .... If they can upgrade they will , if a player isnt worth his contract or cap hit he'll be gone or didnt this past season show us anything with Ryans and Winston cut.

The team did say they would consider drafting a QB should they have the opportunity to draft one they like. That in itself should tell you they will move on from Schaub if need be.


As for Schaub - Who was available prior to his extention that is a clear upgrade ? Who is available right now thats a clear upgrade ?!

That contract is pretty damn team friendly by QB standards and when he signed that deal , they were putting up 30 a game ... Sure hindsight is 20/20 but again , who are you going to replace him with thats not going to set the team back a year or two when they are contenders for a superbowl.
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I am very ok with the contract but do not know how you can determine who decided on the contract. Does Studdard ring a bell? Any moves after Wade was hired imo cannot be said to have been approved by Kubiak. Just my opinion.
 
badboy said:
I am very ok with the contract but do not know how you can determine who decided on the contract. Does Studdard ring a bell? Any moves after Wade was hired imo cannot be said to have been approved by Kubiak. Just my opinion.
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Did Wade all the sudden become the HC ??


Every team has their Studdard , a guy who has all the tools but just doesnt get there.


As for who made that decision , they flat out told us thru a press conference who made the decision. We'll go deeper into that once Gary is no longer with the team.
 
Corrosion said:
Every team has their Studdard , a guy who has all the tools but just doesnt get there.
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What tools did Stuudard have, other than a beer belly? The guy overachieved making a NFL roster.

I agree that re-upping Schaub had to be a group decision between the Texans holy trinity. Where I disagree is the timing of the signing. There was no reason not to wait until the offseason. They could have tagged Schaub. They could have let him test the free agent market. He wasn't getting a better deal than what the Texans gave him. Way premature.

With 11 draft picks, the Texans should bring in a rookie QB at some point. Kubiak's strength is developing QBs (supposedly). Now is the time to test that theory.
 
Lucky said:
What tools did Stuudard have, other than a beer belly? The guy overachieved making a NFL roster.

I agree that re-upping Schaub had to be a group decision between the Texans holy trinity. Where I disagree is the timing of the signing. There was no reason not to wait until the offseason. They could have tagged Schaub. They could have let him test the free agent market. He wasn't getting a better deal than what the Texans gave him. Way premature.

With 11 draft picks, the Texans should bring in a rookie QB at some point. Kubiak's strength is developing QBs (supposedly). Now is the time to test that theory.
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BoB seems to have developed a bad case of premature QB signability.
 
beerlover said:
Strongly disagree. Kubiak & Schaub are joined at the hip. Thankfully Gary turned down a long term deal, instead opting for 3 year extension. One year down. If they go 6-10 as suggested, search is on. Lame duck HC. Big expiring contracts, give me some hope.
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Hope! Hope for what? Starting all over again with another 3 to 5 year building plan? No, I don't see that happening! The only ones Gary is tied to the hip with are Smith and McNair. McNair wants a stable organization, like the Steelers, who compete for Super Bowls most years. I don't think he's going to fire the guy that's helped build them into a playoff team that could be on the brink of going to the Super Bowl. JMO!
 
badboy said:
I am very ok with the contract but do not know how you can determine who decided on the contract. Does Studdard ring a bell? Any moves after Wade was hired imo cannot be said to have been approved by Kubiak. Just my opinion.
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So now all personnel decisions fall on Wade? Ridiculous post.

Lucky said:
With 11 draft picks, the Texans should bring in a rookie QB at some point. Kubiak's strength is developing QBs (supposedly). Now is the time to test that theory.
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I don't mind them spending a 1st round pick or trading several picks to move up within the draft but they should not do it out of desperation but because they feel the guy will be a legitimate upgrade. Getting another 5th or 6th round rookie is just a wasted pick IMO. I'd rather get a kicker.
 
Dopp, IMO, Posey was the right pick.
Sanu doesn't have the speed; he's only averaging 9.6 ypc while Posey averaged nearly 15 yard per.
While I think Toon was a good receiver in college, his injury history didn't thrill me; sure enough, he was placed on IR the whole year.

Posey has decent size and very good speed.
His hands and route running are also better when I studied them in college.
Last year, I concentrated mostly on the QBs and receivers (same as this year.)
IMHO, Posey is the better overall player of those three.
 
Lucky said:
I agree that re-upping Schaub had to be a group decision between the Texans holy trinity. Where I disagree is the timing of the signing. There was no reason not to wait until the offseason. They could have tagged Schaub. They could have let him test the free agent market. He wasn't getting a better deal than what the Texans gave him. Way premature.
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I dont disagree with you there .... Was just pointing out that at the time there was no clear upgrade available and Schaub had shown himself to be capable ..... they were putting up 30+ points a game with him under center.


infantrycak said:
I don't mind them spending a 1st round pick or trading several picks to move up within the draft but they should not do it out of desperation but because they feel the guy will be a legitimate upgrade. Getting another 5th or 6th round rookie is just a wasted pick IMO. I'd rather get a kicker.
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This is where Im at too .... no sense in taking another TJ Yates , he's already on the roster.

If you are going to draft a QB , it needs to be a guy who you think has the talent and mental makeup to actually replace Schaub by 2014 which is when they can get out from under the contract.

76Texan said:
Dopp, IMO, Posey was the right pick.
Sanu doesn't have the speed; he's only averaging 9.6 ypc while Posey averaged nearly 15 yard per.
While I think Toon was a good receiver in college, his injury history didn't thrill me; sure enough, he was placed on IR the whole year.

Posey has decent size and very good speed.
His hands and route running are also better when I studied them in college.
Last year, I concentrated mostly on the QBs and receivers (same as this year.)
IMHO, Posey is the better overall player of those three.
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I tried to tell you guy's that last year .... but Im just crazy.
 
infantrycak said:
So now all personnel decisions fall on Wade? Ridiculous post.



I don't mind them spending a 1st round pick or trading several picks to move up within the draft but they should not do it out of desperation but because they feel the guy will be a legitimate upgrade. Getting another 5th or 6th round rookie is just a wasted pick IMO. I'd rather get a kicker.
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Where did I say Phillips made all personnel decisions? There was a lot of talk on this MB that McNair told Kubiak he was to hire Phillips and that was final. It should not be hard for most to say it is possible if not probable that McNair has taken a much larger role in all moves since that day. Also I noted that Gary was forced to get rid of some coaches. Wade had nothing to do with that nor did I say he did. All I am saying is McNair hired Phillips and Gary may not be making the moves.

BTW, Texans did draft a kicker.
 
Corrosion said:
Did Wade all the sudden become the HC ??


Every team has their Studdard , a guy who has all the tools but just doesnt get there.


As for who made that decision , they flat out told us thru a press conference who made the decision. We'll go deeper into that once Gary is no longer with the team.
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You said Gary was not joined to the hip with any player. I offered an example of Studdard who would not have made Texans without his family's friendship with head coach. This was discussed at length during time Studdard played. Keo is a better example of whom you are describing as having some tools but just doesn't get there and yes most teams have 1-2 of those. After Studdard made roster the injuries to players ahead of him was his biggest strength. At best, he was Briesel lite.
 
badboy said:
You said Gary was not joined to the hip with any player. I offered an example of Studdard who would not have made Texans without his family's friendship with head coach. This was discussed at length during time Studdard played. Keo is a better example of whom you are describing as having some tools but just doesn't get there and yes most teams have 1-2 of those. After Studdard made roster the injuries to players ahead of him was his biggest strength. At best, he was Briesel lite.
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Who discussed it ? Us ?? The media ?! .... No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. We can talk about it all day long but the bottom line is all we can do is make assumptions .... unless of course you have inside knowledge of the team.
 
badboy said:
You said Gary was not joined to the hip with any player. I offered an example of Studdard who would not have made Texans without his family's friendship with head coach. This was discussed at length during time Studdard played. Keo is a better example of whom you are describing as having some tools but just doesn't get there and yes most teams have 1-2 of those. After Studdard made roster the injuries to players ahead of him was his biggest strength. At best, he was Briesel lite.
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That's probably the only way Studdard would ever be described as "lite." :)

I still believe though, and agree with Corrosion, that Kubes is not tied to the hip of any player. He is tied with Smith and McNair.
 
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