AFC South Team needs according to PFF

Team Needs: AFC South
With the 2012 season officially drawing to a close, we begin our look ahead to the 2013 league year and the free agency period that comes with it.

In this series of team-by-team looks, we’ll highlight pressing areas of need and possible free-agent solutions to fill vacancies or bolster lacking units.

We’ve covered the AFC East and AFC North so our next stop takes us to the South. We check in on a pair of playoff teams and two hopeful competitors to see where they can improve and which additions could do the trick.

Houston Texans

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/06/team-needs-afc-sout/

they do not "like rotating the offensive line" as they say in the article. The team simply had no one with experience on the right side and were trying to find the most successful combination. Continuity and consistency are two of the biggest keys to a good offensive line, and rotation is rarely a good thing. To suggest that just because they chose to rotate players because of a lack of better options means they LIKE to is just a lack of effort in research, and lack of common sense.

Wow. I don't think we need someone to push to start next to Cushing. We need to get someone to start next to Cushing.

thunderkyss said:

Wow. I don't think we need someone to push to start next to Cushing. We need to get someone to start next to Cushing.

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At minimum, they need a rotational ILB that can excel in passing situations in coverage to rotate with Dobbins and backup Cushing. What killed us on defense once we lost Cushing was the absence of any ILB to do even a mediocre job in coverage.. Given all the man situations they face in Wade's defense, it was the primary reason we had no chance to defeat the Patriots.

I think head coach is our biggest need.

Someone who is adaptive and can make changes on-the-fly instead of trying to prove that his long-held traditions and philosophies are fool-proof in an NFL that is growing more adaptive every year via rule changes that help QBs and WRs.

Otherwise, we're just baby-stepping our way every season...hoping to patch something that broke the previous season. You can't move forward when you're always pulling over on the side of the road and duct-taping some random part that keeps breaking down.

For all that he has done to move us up from the Capers era, he's had an incredible amount of time to identify and develop talent at QB, WR, TE, RB, and OL. We're left with shaky QB, shaky OL, aging TE, inconsistent RB performances (due to shaky OL and shaky QB), and deficiencies galore at WR.

But hey, I'll get back on topic:

1.) ILB is the biggest need.

2.) DE or DT is next biggest need.

Those two spots make our defense better, and inherently makes the offense better (sort of).

3.) WR. Duh.

4.) OL. Because we aren't spending money on a FA guy, it's impossible due to cap.

5.) QB. Continue to shake the tree and see what falls off the branches.

6.) P. Yeah, this position is important all Jaguars jokes aside. It can alter a game. No more shanks.

I really like the Butler & Grant suggestions.

I think we need new help at RT -- draft or free agent.

OLB

Free Agent Fix: Victor Butler

While he won’t receive the same pay day of his current Dallas teammate Anthony Spencer, outside linebacker Victor Butler has the potential to be one of the bargains of the offseason for the right team. Playing just 300 snaps for the Cowboys this past year, Butler had a Pass Rushing Productivity rating of 9.4, with three sacks, three hits and nine hurries from 127 pass rushing snaps.

He’s far from a sure thing, with this being the most snaps he’s seen in a season in his four-year career, but Butler has earned his shot at a starting gig. Grading positively both as a pass rusher and against the run in each of the past three seasons, Butler has shown that he’s good enough on a limited number of snaps, and now comes his chance to do it as a starter.

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ILB

Free Agent Fix: Larry Grant

Playing on a defense with the two best inside linebackers in football will make opportunities hard to come by, and so San Francisco’s Larry Grant saw just 20 snaps on defense this past year. From those limited snaps his lone tackle did result in a defensive stop, but a look back to the end of the 2011 season saw him enjoy extended playing time.

His performance against the St. Louis Rams in Week 13 of that season was particular impressive, with Grant registering a sack and a hit to go along with four tackles, which all resulted in a defensive stop. Over the entire season he saw 232 snaps, and graded positively against the run, as a pass rusher and in coverage. He’s not someone that’s guaranteed to come in and start, but his play in the past suggests it’s not unreasonable to expect him to come in and compete.

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Clamp said:

they do not "like rotating the offensive line" as they say in the article. The team simply had no one with experience on the right side and were trying to find the most successful combination. Continuity and consistency are two of the biggest keys to a good offensive line, and rotation is rarely a good thing. To suggest that just because they chose to rotate players because of a lack of better options means they LIKE to is just a lack of effort in research, and lack of common sense.

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Moreover, yes, with Eric Winston and Briesel we were a bunch of rotating fools at Ol. It's called plugging the damn dam...clearly we are in need of an upgrade at the right side of OL.

GP said:

I think head coach is our biggest need.

Someone who is adaptive and can make changes on-the-fly instead of trying to prove that his long-held traditions and philosophies are fool-proof in an NFL that is growing more adaptive every year via rule changes that help QBs and WRs.

Otherwise, we're just baby-stepping our way every season...hoping to patch something that broke the previous season. You can't move forward when you're always pulling over on the side of the road and duct-taping some random part that keeps breaking down.

For all that he has done to move us up from the Capers era, he's had an incredible amount of time to identify and develop talent at QB, WR, TE, RB, and OL. We're left with shaky QB, shaky OL, aging TE, inconsistent RB performances (due to shaky OL and shaky QB), and deficiencies galore at WR.

But hey, I'll get back on topic:

1.) ILB is the biggest need.

2.) DE or DT is next biggest need.

Those two spots make our defense better, and inherently makes the offense better (sort of).

3.) WR. Duh.

4.) OL. Because we aren't spending money on a FA guy, it's impossible due to cap.

5.) QB. Continue to shake the tree and see what falls off the branches.

6.) P. Yeah, this position is important all Jaguars jokes aside. It can alter a game. No more shanks.

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I agree with some of the criticism Kubiak is receiving for his inability to adapt quickly. However, I do not think he is to blame for personnel deficiencies this year. Part of it is inevitable given the cap era. Also, I believe the Texans have taken a financially conservative approach to the cap and have chosen not to take advantage of some of the loopholes (like the rollover cap money from 2011) and some of the ways to manipulate the cap slightly with bonuses, etc...This decision falls on McNair and/or our capologist. A more aggressive approach last year would have enabled the team to keep some combination of Winston/Ryans/Dreessen, which would have made the team look very different, IMO.

Regarding personnel moving into the off-season:

Needs:

1. ILB
2. TE (a size + speed guy).. I think we will likely (wisely) go TE in round one.
3. WR (speed guy)
4. S (assuming we re-sign Quin, we still need a 3rd safety.. Wade loves going three safeties in dime defenses.
5.FB (a situational thumper, not an every down guy)

I think that's it, need-wise...

Weaknesses that can be solved internally:

RT: I believe Butler has one year left on his contract and should be healthy. We could also re-sign Ryan Harris.. and, Mondek has potential from the practice squad. I think Newton is already serviceable and has a high ceiling. If tight end is addressed, I think RT becomes much less of a concern.

RG: Brooks, with an off-season, should secure the job and Jones is an adequate backup, IMO. Losing Shelley Smith was a mistake but it's done. I don't think it is a pressing need unless we cut Wade Smith. Caldwell, I believe, will be signed away (potential 5th or 6th round compensatory pick compensation).

CB: I think we lose McCain and Ball... Our starters are strong and I became a believer in Brandon Harris at the conclusion of the season. Carmichael has potential and is an adequate #4, assuming we build quality depth at safety.

DL: I think we're good if we can count on Jamison returning to form... He gives us (with Crick) 5 reliable defensive linemen with the loss of Cody. I think Hunter may be a quality candidate to take some snaps at NT, particularly in short yardage.

P: Donnie Jones actually did a good job, though it isn't as fun as watching some of those boomers like Lechler punt.

ST: I think our problem on special teams resulted from our lack of depth at TE, LB, FB, and Safety... those three positions make up most of the quality players on special teams units. Addressing those positions will solve our kick and punt coverage issues and also improve our return game, I believe.

Here is my forecast (educated guess with a tiny bit of optimism sprinkled in) for our draft, including compensatory picks in Bold (they can't be traded).

27. TE stud
59. ILB
92. WR
97. (Mario) Safety
125. OLB
157. OT
165. (Briesel) TE
167. (Dreessen) RB
199. FB
208. (Allen) CB
236. Safety

** clearly, I don't think they would lay out a formula, determining what position they'd take each round. But, I think this is a fair representation of what they'll be looking to do in the draft/UDFA period in late April- dependent on free agent net gains and losses (particularly Quin, Barwin, Casey, McCain)

Texans will mount there usual search to secure free agent's to fill holes. Not resigning Barwin & Quin open more holes but maybe the best bang for buck to replace while also adding one or two upgrades elsewhere. This will enable them to better draft BPA over need.

GP said:

I think head coach is our biggest need.

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Serious question: What are the names of the proven head coaches that are either available now or were available over the last two years that would would have done better than 22-10 and two second round playoff appearances with this specific team?

I'm not saying Kubiak is going to challenge the Hoodie for place in the HOF.

But I honestly want to know who has been available and why they would have gotten more out of this team.

GP said:

I think head coach is our biggest need.

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Yep, I totally agree. But it ain't happening for 2013.

sandman said:

Serious question: What are the names of the proven head coaches that are either available now or were available over the last two years that would would have done better than 22-10 and two second round playoff appearances with this specific team?

I'm not saying Kubiak is going to challenge the Hoodie for place in the HOF.

But I honestly want to know who has been available and why they would have gotten more out of this team.

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At this time there may not be a better one avaliable. Kubiak is what he is, and the Texans are what they are and will remain so as long as Kubiak is in charge. Above average team, winning the division title, and leaving the playoffs early is our future.

And while that is nice, been there done that with the Oilers. I want something else now.

I'd include WR to the list of needs. Outside of AJ, we just don't have a receiver. We either have receivers with great hands that can't get separation, or receivers who are very quick and drop every pass their way. Time to actually give the offense some weapons. We've been neglecting it for way too long and drafting mostly defensive players.

While we're at it, we might as well include QB as a need. Noodle arm, turtle-speed Schaub is more of a liability than an asset at this point.

Also, since Brooks Reed is moving to ILB, I'd say OLB is a bigger need than ILB. We'll have Cushing back, but we really don't have any playmakers at OLB. All of the OLB had so much promise last year, but they really disappointed this year.

I really don't understand why NT is not listed if they are going to list positions like the ILB next to Brian Cushing which isn't really on the field much more than our NT's currently (One of which kinda sucks and the other being inconsistent).

hellbentforfootball said:

Moreover, yes, with Eric Winston and Briesel we were a bunch of rotating fools at Ol. It's called plugging the damn dam...clearly we are in need of an upgrade at the right side of OL.

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His point, was that they said we "like" to rotate our offensive personell since we did the same thing in 2011 (Caldwell & Briesel rotated in 2011). They didn't mention it but we also rotated Duane Brown & Ephraim Salaam in Brown's rookie year.

It's not that we "like" to rotate them, it's that we "had" to. If we had a RT/RG who could play consistently all game, we wouldn't be rotating. You can plan for consistently mediocre play. You can't plan for the bad plays.

So we feel that Newton & Jones can play consistently for 3 series, then we throw Harris & Brooks out there for one series, then get Newton & Jones back in for another 3 series.

Hopefully they can make the jump we need them to & they play much closer to Briesel & Winston in the run game.

GP said:

I think head coach is our biggest need.

Someone who is adaptive and can make changes on-the-fly instead of trying to prove that his long-held traditions and philosophies are fool-proof in an NFL that is growing more adaptive every year via rule changes that help QBs and WRs.

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We've got an immobile, noodle armed, gun-shy QB, no 2nd wide receiver, no RG/RT to speak of, & a porous defense.

But we've somehow managed to win 12 games & a play off game. Two things that doesn't happen as often as most teams would like.

We've got a talentless team that wins in spite of their dim-witted coach.

thunderkyss said:

We've got an immobile, noodle armed, gun-shy QB, no 2nd wide receiver, no RG/RT to speak of, & a porous defense.

But we've somehow managed to win 12 games & a play off game. Two things that doesn't happen as often as most teams would like.

We've got a talentless team that wins in spite of their dim-witted coach.

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Negative, negative, negative.

We definitely have needs, but "talentless team?"

Have some:

b0ng said:

I really don't understand why NT is not listed if they are going to list positions like the ILB next to Brian Cushing which isn't really on the field much more than our NT's currently (One of which kinda sucks and the other being inconsistent).

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a complete ILB next to cushing would be on the field 3 downs. as it is, our current guys play the same role as DT - run stoppers - and STILL play more snaps than our DT's. for comparison, shaun cody played 257 defensive snaps last season while tim dobbins played 389. sharpton off the PUP had 280.

it's a passing league, we quite simply dont use our nose tackle very often even on early downs because too many teams run 3+ wide receiver sets. this is where the ILB is crucial because they're needed to fill the run gaps inside as well as be able to cover (something our current players are incapable of), especially in these early down spread situations.

Scooter said:

a complete ILB next to cushing would be on the field 3 downs. as it is, our current guys play the same role as DT - run stoppers - and STILL play more snaps than our DT's. for comparison, shaun cody played 257 defensive snaps last season while tim dobbins played 389. sharpton off the PUP had 280.

it's a passing league, we quite simply dont use our nose tackle very often even on early downs because too many teams run 3+ wide receiver sets. this is where the ILB is crucial because they're needed to fill the run gaps inside as well as be able to cover (something our current players are incapable of), especially in these early down spread situations.

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To me I see the situation as we don't really have an NT who is any good, and why would we use somebody who is not any good in passing situations. Unfortunately, we also didn't have an ILB who was any good either once Cushing went down, but we all know that the ILB next to Cushing is a position that the Texans aren't going to spend much money on anyway.

If we had an actual good NT, I'm willing to bet he would be on the field more (Think of our normal 4 man line that was usually Reed/Merci, Watt, Smith, Barwin) and we would use Watt as a DE in those situations. Problem is our NT's suuuuuuuuuuuuuck, so this doesn't happen.

ILB

Free Agent Fix: Larry Grant

Playing on a defense with the two best inside linebackers in football will make opportunities hard to come by, and so San Francisco’s Larry Grant saw just 20 snaps on defense this past year. From those limited snaps his lone tackle did result in a defensive stop, but a look back to the end of the 2011 season saw him enjoy extended playing time.

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I don't know what type of $$$ it would take, but a guy like this sounds intriguing to me. Been in the league for awhile, but not too old. Played behind 2 Pro Bowlers, but has flashed when given the opportunity.

Lucky said:

I don't know what type of $$$ it would take, but a guy like this sounds intriguing to me. Been in the league for awhile, but not too old. Played behind 2 Pro Bowlers, but has flashed when given the opportunity.

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I have a feeling Grant will be hotly pursued once FA starts and will command a lot of $$$. I don't know where the 49ers stand as far as the cap but I imagine they will do everything they can to keep Grant. It just may not be enough. The Texans may not have enough either.

CretorFrigg said:

I'd include WR to the list of needs. Outside of AJ, we just don't have a receiver. We either have receivers with great hands that can't get separation, or receivers who are very quick and drop every pass their way. Time to actually give the offense some weapons. We've been neglecting it for way too long and drafting mostly defensive players.

While we're at it, we might as well include QB as a need. Noodle arm, turtle-speed Schaub is more of a liability than an asset at this point.

Also, since Brooks Reed is moving to ILB, I'd say OLB is a bigger need than ILB. We'll have Cushing back, but we really don't have any playmakers at OLB. All of the OLB had so much promise last year, but they really disappointed this year.

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Is Reed moving to ILB set in stone? I have not heard Wade or Kubiak say this. Have only heard it on this MB, probably based off a speculative article written by some sports writer who may have heard a rumor! If someone has a link to the Texans Coaches who have said this, please provide it. I don't want to make it sound like I'm against the move, but I'm just not sure how much for it I am. I think there are better options. But, I'm not the GM.

Insideop said:

Is Reed moving to ILB set in stone? I have not heard Wade or Kubiak say this. Have only heard it on this MB, probably based off a speculative article written by some sports writer who may have heard a rumor! If someone has a link to the Texans Coaches who have said this, please provide it. I don't want to make it sound like I'm against the move, but I'm just not sure how much for it I am. I think there are better options. But, I'm not the GM.

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I didn't find a link to the Coaches but I did find this: http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=10129 This move of Reed to ILB is contingent on the Texans resigning Barwin. I'm still not sold on this.

Insideop said:

I didn't find a link to the Coaches but I did find this: http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=10129 This move of Reed to ILB is contingent on the Texans resigning Barwin. I'm still not sold on this.

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We need outside pass rushers on this team.

Period.

All we've got right now is Mercilus & that's based more on potential than anything. The Connor Barwin experiment failed at outside pass rusher, so in my mind you either get one in FA (which always cost way too much) or you draft one.

If we can resign Barwin, who is better against the run than Reed, then we only have to draft one LB.... a LB that can rotate with Mercilus. If we lose Barwin, then we have to sign two LBs that we'll depend a lot on. Either through the draft, or FA.

We do have Sharpton & Dobbins, who can play next to Cushing, but those are stop gaps at best until Sharpton proves differently. I think the kid can play, but I don't want to depend on him at this point.

I'd also like to see Mr Alexander at SOLB as a depth guy in the future. Looked like he put on some size last year.

thunderkyss said:

We need outside pass rushers on this team.

Period.

All we've got right now is Mercilus & that's based more on potential than anything. The Connor Barwin experiment failed at outside pass rusher, so in my mind you either get one in FA (which always cost way too much) or you draft one.

If we can resign Barwin, who is better against the run than Reed, then we only have to draft one LB.... a LB that can rotate with Mercilus. If we lose Barwin, then we have to sign two LBs that we'll depend a lot on. Either through the draft, or FA.

We do have Sharpton & Dobbins, who can play next to Cushing, but those are stop gaps at best until Sharpton proves differently. I think the kid can play, but I don't want to depend on him at this point.

I'd also like to see Mr Alexander at SOLB as a depth guy in the future. Looked like he put on some size last year.

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I agree we need more pass rushers on this team, and a lot of this will hinge on Barwin and his contract. If Barwin wants too much or too many years, I say, let him go. The Texans don't need to tie up a lot of money on him, or players like him, and then not have enough for JJ Watt, Cushing, Manning, and others when it comes time to sign them. I would rather the Texans go after GQ and McCain, let Barwin go, and draft another pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd round.

As for some of the others you mentioned, I think Sharpton will have a hard time making this team next year due to his injury history. He seems to be injured a lot in his short time here and I think that could play into the Coaches decision. I think they bring Dobbins back, if for nothing else than depth and ST. Mr Alexander, I don't know what will happen to him. It will probably come down to his value on ST and how many OLB's they keep.

beerlover said:

Texans will mount there usual search to secure free agent's to fill holes. Not resigning Barwin & Quin open more holes but maybe the best bang for buck to replace while also adding one or two upgrades elsewhere. This will enable them to better draft BPA over need.

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Most people don't realize they do this every year. I really believe we have a better than 50% chance of loosing both Barwin and Quin.

thunderkyss said:

We need outside pass rushers on this team.

Period.

All we've got right now is Mercilus & that's based more on potential than anything. The Connor Barwin experiment failed at outside pass rusher, so in my mind you either get one in FA (which always cost way too much) or you draft one.

If we can resign Barwin, who is better against the run than Reed, then we only have to draft one LB.... a LB that can rotate with Mercilus. If we lose Barwin, then we have to sign two LBs that we'll depend a lot on. Either through the draft, or FA.

We do have Sharpton & Dobbins, who can play next to Cushing, but those are stop gaps at best until Sharpton proves differently. I think the kid can play, but I don't want to depend on him at this point.

I'd also like to see Mr Alexander at SOLB as a depth guy in the future. Looked like he put on some size last year.

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That's questionable.

mussop said:

That's questionable.

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For what it's worth both Barwin and Reed are pretty good at setting the edge against the run. Of course you want your OLBs to be better pass rushers than both of those guys, but it is what it is.

HJam72 said:

Negative, negative, negative.

We definitely have needs, but "talentless team?"

Have some:

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I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm; taking dead aim at GP's assertion that we need a new head coach.

I look around at who is available - Cowher said, I'm not coming back" so he ain't on the list - and I don't really see anyone that I'd swap Kubiak for.

Jon Gruden? Naah... once the team Dungy built in Tampa left, he did nothing.

Lovie Smith? Meh...

Ken Whisenhunt?... ummm, nope

Pat Shurmur?
Jim Caldwell?
Romeo Crennel?

No, no, and no.

You tell me, who is available that you would go after in place of Kubiak?

ObsiWan said:

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm; taking dead aim at GP's assertion that we need a new head coach.

I look around at who is available - Cowher said, I'm not coming back" so he ain't on the list - and I don't really see anyone that I'd swap Kubiak for.

Jon Gruden? Naah... once the team Dungy built in Tampa left, he did nothing.

Lovie Smith? Meh...

Ken Whisenhunt?... ummm, nope

Pat Shurmur?
Jim Caldwell?
Romeo Crennel?

No, no, and no.

You tell me, who is available that you would go after in place of Kubiak?

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Wait for it. . . Waaaaaaaaait for ittttt . . .

Mack Brown

lolololololol

Insideop said:

I agree we need more pass rushers on this team, and a lot of this will hinge on Barwin and his contract. If Barwin wants too much or too many years, I say, let him go. The Texans don't need to tie up a lot of money on him, or players like him, and then not have enough for JJ Watt, Cushing, Manning, and others when it comes time to sign them. I would rather the Texans go after GQ and McCain, let Barwin go, and draft another pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd round.

As for some of the others you mentioned, I think Sharpton will have a hard time making this team next year due to his injury history. He seems to be injured a lot in his short time here and I think that could play into the Coaches decision. I think they bring Dobbins back, if for nothing else than depth and ST. Mr Alexander, I don't know what will happen to him. It will probably come down to his value on ST and how many OLB's they keep.

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So who starts next to Cushing? If you move Reed to ILB, who starts at SOLB if you let Barwin go?

I don't want to pay Barwin more than $5M for 2013, but I'm going to start at $2M & try to land him for $3. If we're not successful, then we've got a hole at ILB (because we can't move Reed) & outside pass rusher.... Reed is not a pass rusher.

I'm ok with starting Sharpton, & Dobbins, but not what I consider ideal.

b0ng said:

For what it's worth both Barwin and Reed are pretty good at setting the edge against the run. Of course you want your OLBs to be better pass rushers than both of those guys, but it is what it is.

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On the strong side, I'd be happy if they avg 5 sacks a year, along with a ton of pressure, forcing the QB to step up into Watt & Smith...

I'm watching the Jets' Monday night game. They just mentioned that Smith had a career high 6.5 sacks in 2011. That means he's had season highs two years running. 2011 with 6.5 & 2012 with 7. Again it should be assumed there are a ton of pressures coming from him as well.

& we're talking about cutting his pay. In the 4-3, I thought we overpaid for him, he did not perform up to his contract. But since we've gone to a 3-4 he's been amazing. His cap number may be a little high for a 3-4 DE. But for a team leader & a big part of our pass rush, I think he's earned his money. I understand the need to lower his cap number, but the man is money.

This has nothing to do with our OLB situation, I'm just watching the game a little under the influence & I tend to ramble a bit.

I think the article was fair to the Texans. I'm not a fan of the rotation system on the line and think it was created out of necessity. If one of the two rotational player had stepped up his game, that would have ended the system.

I am surprised that nothing was mentioned about opposing teams ability to take the top off our defense. Giving up those long pass plays really hurt us.

ObsiWan said:

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm; taking dead aim at GP's assertion that we need a new head coach.

I look around at who is available - Cowher said, I'm not coming back" so he ain't on the list - and I don't really see anyone that I'd swap Kubiak for.

Jon Gruden? Naah... once the team Dungy built in Tampa left, he did nothing.

Lovie Smith? Meh...

Ken Whisenhunt?... ummm, nope

Pat Shurmur?
Jim Caldwell?
Romeo Crennel?

No, no, and no.

You tell me, who is available that you would go after in place of Kubiak?

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Brian Billick yes
Mike Holmgren yes
Lovie Smith yes
Nick Saban Yes


All of these guys have accomplished more than Gary. Holmgren runs the WC offense and Billick runs a version of it.

But it really doesn't matter because until BoB dies Gary will be HC because it would be to traumatic to make changes. (Sarcasm///)

BTW, Gary did a great job this yr playing with an injured QB with very little on the right side of the OL and an injured defense.

Hagar said:

I am surprised that nothing was mentioned about opposing teams ability to take the top off our defense. Giving up those long pass plays really hurt us.

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I bet we were among the league's best against the big play. I'd think Atlanta was easily better than us, other than that I don't think many teams were. We gave up maybe a handful of plays all year.

steelbtexan said:

Brian Billick yes
Mike Holmgren yes
Lovie Smith yes
Nick Saban Yes


All of these guys have accomplished more than Gary. Holmgren runs the WC offense and Billick runs a version of it.

But it really doesn't matter because until BoB dies Gary will be HC because it would be to traumatic to make changes. (Sarcasm///)

BTW, Gary did a great job this yr playing with an injured QB with very little on the right side of the OL and an injured defense.

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I thought Billick said he wasn't coming back.

Holmgren would make sense, he'd probably want GM/HC kind of authority meaning we'd probably get rid of Rick Smith too.

Lovie Smith..... are you on crack? I can't name one Bears team that was better than our 2012 team much less our 2011 team. I understand Lovie took a team to the Super Bowl, but I wouldn't want that team in place of our 2011/2012 team. We would be complaining about Lovie's aparent lack of ability to get an OC in Chicago. Sure, he's run the gamut & they've rarely got better, may as well leave an "inept friend of a friend" in that position.

Nick Saban. I doubt he's got the stones to give it another go. Unlike Gary, he knew he was in over his head.

I think next season is going to be very good for us.

ObsiWan said:

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm; taking dead aim at GP's assertion that we need a new head coach.

I look around at who is available - Cowher said, I'm not coming back" so he ain't on the list - and I don't really see anyone that I'd swap Kubiak for.

Jon Gruden? Naah... once the team Dungy built in Tampa left, he did nothing.

Lovie Smith? Meh...

Ken Whisenhunt?... ummm, nope

Pat Shurmur?
Jim Caldwell?
Romeo Crennel?

No, no, and no.

You tell me, who is available that you would go after in place of Kubiak?

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Kevin Sumlin.

I don't need Johnny Football to tag along, I just want the guy who is the one coaching those teams. The UH team who rose to Top 3, IIRC, a couple of years ago with *ahem* Case Keenum at QB, and now the A&M Aggies whom everyone said would get destroyed in the SEC...yet politely kicked the door in and made themselves firmly at home there.

I want a coach who can go from one place to another and find instant success in completely different settings each time.

Reason #2: He definitely satisfies the NFL's Rooeny Rule for hiring minority head coaching candidates. That would be a feather in the cap of McNair. So there's another plus.

Reason #3: He has a QB on this roster already whom he knows very well, Case Keenum, and he'd find the parts that utilizes Keenum's strengths. Frankly, I would find it so funny if we DID end up hiring Sumlin considering how Kubiak was the one who signed Keenum.

To me, Kevin Sumlin is that guy. And you'd have two former UH guys coaching the team: Sumlin and Phillips. Perfect setup for McNair's marketing team.

But hey, let's face it ObsiWan....when someone on here says "Tell me who you'd get!" it doesn't mean "Supply me with a reasonable candidate, with a reasonable explanation of why" (which I provided). No, you really meant to say "No matter who you name, I'll shoot that name down...because I've made up my mind that there isn't anybody good enough to replace Kubiak."

I've yet to see someone who plays the Name-Me-A-Guy game actually play along in a sporting manner. It's always used as a tip-off, as argument bait, to get someone to name a name so you can lambast it and advance the idea that people are just griping to gripe and don't really have a clue.

You honestly, swear an oath to the Texans, 100% in-your-bones believe that there isn't ANYBODY out there who could replace Gary Kubiak??????????????

Cue the Keyshawn Johnson soundbite.

GP said:

Kevin Sumlin.

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I'd love it if we replaced an aggie with an aggie.

Not saying that is the main reason so many people don't like Kubiak, but I guarantee the doom & gloom won't go away.

GP said:

But hey, let's face it ObsiWan....when someone on here says "Tell me who you'd get!" it doesn't mean "Supply me with a reasonable candidate, with a reasonable explanation of why" (which I provided). No, you really meant to say "No matter who you name, I'll shoot that name down...because I've made up my mind that there isn't anybody good enough to replace Kubiak."

I've yet to see someone who plays the Name-Me-A-Guy game actually play along in a sporting manner. It's always used as a tip-off, as argument bait, to get someone to name a name so you can lambast it and advance the idea that people are just griping to gripe and don't really have a clue.

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That's not what I'm thinking when I use the "name me a guy" rebuttal. It's usually because I don't think there is a guy who is available, or who would come to Houston. We like to think if we throw enough money out there, we could get anyone we want. & while that's true & there's a limit to how much money you can/should offer a player, I believe there are some people who won't come to Houston for any amount of money.

Usually those are your top FA & coaching prospects. Nnamdi Asomugha was never coming to Houston for the simple fact that it is Houston. In the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking) & haven't won crap (not even a play off appearance at that time). & Cowher was never coming here for the same reason. Sure, he'll float the Texans as a possible destination, using McNair's big pockets to start the bidding war (that never happened).

GP said:

You honestly, swear an oath to the Texans, 100% in-your-bones believe that there isn't ANYBODY out there who could replace Gary Kubiak??????????????

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I think it is important to understand where we were when Kubiak got here. We had less than nothing as an organization. From top to bottom, this was not an organization built to win a championship. As a game day manager, Gary has some deficiencies, and our FO has made some mistakes since Gary brought in his people. But overall, Gary has done an amazing job, imo, doing in 5 years what it's taken organizations like the 49ers, Lions, Cardinals, Dolphins 10 years to do.

I don't know that Gary has taken us as far as he can. I do understand that it is part of the discussion now for a reason.

I would not be opposed to changing coaches right now, maybe we are ready for our Jon Gruden.

But I know the odds of us finding our Jon Gruden are astronomical. Jon Gruden most likely wouldn't be that guy a second time around. He couldn't get a Super Bowl team back to the Super Bowl & struggled getting them back to the play offs. He was fired for a reason.

If we did make a coaching change I would not surprised if we went 4-12. I also wouldn't be surprised if Gary & the Texans finished 4-12 next season anyway.

We've yet to establish a tradition of winning, but I think we are well on our way.

thunderkyss said:

So who starts next to Cushing? If you move Reed to ILB, who starts at SOLB if you let Barwin go?

I don't want to pay Barwin more than $5M for 2013, but I'm going to start at $2M & try to land him for $3. If we're not successful, then we've got a hole at ILB (because we can't move Reed) & outside pass rusher.... Reed is not a pass rusher.

I'm ok with starting Sharpton, & Dobbins, but not what I consider ideal.

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If that happens we are going backwards.

GP said:

Kevin Sumlin.

I don't need Johnny Football to tag along, I just want the guy who is the one coaching those teams. The UH team who rose to Top 3, IIRC, a couple of years ago with *ahem* Case Keenum at QB, and now the A&M Aggies whom everyone said would get destroyed in the SEC...yet politely kicked the door in and made themselves firmly at home there.

I want a coach who can go from one place to another and find instant success in completely different settings each time.

Reason #2: He definitely satisfies the NFL's Rooeny Rule for hiring minority head coaching candidates. That would be a feather in the cap of McNair. So there's another plus.

Reason #3: He has a QB on this roster already whom he knows very well, Case Keenum, and he'd find the parts that utilizes Keenum's strengths. Frankly, I would find it so funny if we DID end up hiring Sumlin considering how Kubiak was the one who signed Keenum.

To me, Kevin Sumlin is that guy. And you'd have two former UH guys coaching the team: Sumlin and Phillips. Perfect setup for McNair's marketing team.

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I must admit I never even considered raiding the college ranks. The success rate of coaches who make that transition is spotty at best.

GP said:

But hey, let's face it ObsiWan....when someone on here says "Tell me who you'd get!" it doesn't mean "Supply me with a reasonable candidate, with a reasonable explanation of why" (which I provided). No, you really meant to say "No matter who you name, I'll shoot that name down...because I've made up my mind that there isn't anybody good enough to replace Kubiak."

I've yet to see someone who plays the Name-Me-A-Guy game actually play along in a sporting manner. It's always used as a tip-off, as argument bait, to get someone to name a name so you can lambast it and advance the idea that people are just griping to gripe and don't really have a clue.

You honestly, swear an oath to the Texans, 100% in-your-bones believe that there isn't ANYBODY out there who could replace Gary Kubiak??????????????

Cue the Keyshawn Johnson soundbite.

Click to expand...

As I said above, Sumlin is an interesting choice. I'd be down with that choice because it seems he's found success where ever he's landed. Yeah... the more I think about it, the more I like it.

I listed the names I could come up with but never thought about the college ranks. If Kubiak is fired and Wade isn't, would Wade get all butt-hurt and leave because Uncle Bob didn't annoint him Kubiak's successor?

I think it also depend on who Sumlin (or anyone else for that matter) brings in as assistants. And what kind of team Sumlin and Rick Smith make during draft and free agency time.

Sumlin... I like it.

...oh and repped for thinking outside the box. At least more outside than I did.

steelbtexan said:

Brian Billick yes
Mike Holmgren yes
Lovie Smith yes
Nick Saban Yes

All of these guys have accomplished more than Gary. Holmgren runs the WC offense and Billick runs a version of it.

But it really doesn't matter because until BoB dies Gary will be HC because it would be to traumatic to make changes. (Sarcasm///)

BTW, Gary did a great job this yr playing with an injured QB with very little on the right side of the OL and an injured defense.

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I like Billick but didn't include him as, like TK said, I thought he was happy being a TV talking head.

I like Holmgren too, anyone who can take Hasselbeck to the Super Bowl, might just be able to find a way to take Schaub... ...or, since he has no ties to Schaub, cut bait and find his successor.

Lovie....? If we lose Wade, I could see him coming in as DC but not head coach. Lovie ain't exactly known for having wide open offenses so if you hate it when Kubiak "goes turtle", Lovie will drive you right off the ledge.

I just flat don't trust Saban any farther than I could throw Albert Haynesworth.

ObsiWan said:

I like Billick but didn't include him as, like TK said, I thought he was happy being a TV talking head.

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I don't like HC's who can't build what they are supposedly experts in. That is the classic definition of coordinator who shouldn't be HC to me. Bilick never built a legitimate offense in Baltimore. Capers never built a legitimate D in Houston. Folks can quibble over details but Kubiak has built a solid offense in Houston. I am more forgiving of mistakes on the non-expert side of the ball.

infantrycak said:

I don't like HC's who can't build what they are supposedly experts in. That is the classic definition of coordinator who shouldn't be HC to me. Bilick never built a legitimate offense in Baltimore. Capers never built a legitimate D in Houston. Folks can quibble over details but Kubiak has built a solid offense in Houston. I am more forgiving of mistakes on the non-expert side of the ball.

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Agreed. I like how Kubiak has been able to build one of the top offenses in the league, with "lesser talent" & invest most of his capital on the other side of the ball. We've got pro bowlers (sorry, it means something to me) who were 4th round draft picks, FA acquisitions (who weren't pro bowlers before they came), & UDFAs, and that's definitely a good sign of the GM & HC/OC working together.

Now that we've got a "real" DC, it's time to start seeing them identify 4 round, & later picks, and relatively cost affective FAs (Like Wade Smith, and Vonta Leach) that can become contributors on this team.

ObsiWan said:

I must admit I never even considered raiding the college ranks. The success rate of coaches who make that transition is spotty at best.


As I said above, Sumlin is an interesting choice. I'd be down with that choice because it seems he's found success where ever he's landed. Yeah... the more I think about it, the more I like it.

I listed the names I could come up with but never thought about the college ranks. If Kubiak is fired and Wade isn't, would Wade get all butt-hurt and leave because Uncle Bob didn't annoint him Kubiak's successor?

I think it also depend on who Sumlin (or anyone else for that matter) brings in as assistants. And what kind of team Sumlin and Rick Smith make during draft and free agency time.

Sumlin... I like it.

...oh and repped for thinking outside the box. At least more outside than I did.

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A first-year NFL HC isn't going to be able to command big dollars unless he wins the NCAA and then it's off to the races for bidding high enough to land a guy like that.

That's another reason for a guy like McNair to consider making the move.

Our team isn't a power-running team or anything, we're "fast and finesse," and frankly I can envision our OL having those wide splits like we see with Spread Offenses such as Mike Leach's OL who have sometimes a full 3 or 4 or 5 feet between each O-Lineman. From an OL standpoint, we have the guys to make that happen immediately. No major rebuilding would be needed, IMO.

QB? We've got two QBs whom I think could adapt to the Sumlin philosophy fairly easily. Case being the predominant choice here. The longer he sits, the better. If he has to sit one or two more seasons before a move for Sumlin was made, then fine by me. That's less time he gets physically invested into Gary Ball.

WR. AJ will be a question mark, I won't lie. He will be around 1 or 2 years older and would he be able AND willing to switch it up for a Sumlin offense? That type of offense is really, IMO, a hybrid between a West Coast and a Spread Offense (Sumlin utilizes the TE quite bit form the games I watched). So I'm saying that we MIGHT move on from AJ and load up with as many WRs as we can that would fit Sumlin's style. It would be a rebuilding mode with WR and TE, IMO. Which will make Texans fans quake in their Gary Ball boots.

RB. I don't see why there would need to be a change at RB. Another position that I think would be fine to leave untouched. Just continue to stock the shelf here, of course.

If Sumlin produces another stellar season at A&M in 2013, look at how Chip Kelly bolted Oregon for the NFL. It'll happen for some team...they'll kick the tires on Sumlin, and I don't think Sumlin has any allegiances to any college whatsoever. He looks and acts like a man who has his mind set upon moving to the NFL anyway he can.

If there's anybody in the college ranks whom I think could be the Texans HC and do it with good odds of succeeding, I think it's Sumlin. Just my two cents, though. He'd be cheaper than the average NFL retread HCs, he has all positions but WR and TE sewn up nicely, and I think he could find draft picks and FA's in one year that could stock him up sufficiently to make noise right out of the gates.

UH Cougars on both sides of the ball. Sounds good to me.

steelbtexan said:

Brian Billick yes
Mike Holmgren yes
Lovie Smith yes
Nick Saban Yes


All of these guys have accomplished more than Gary. Holmgren runs the WC offense and Billick runs a version of it.

But it really doesn't matter because until BoB dies Gary will be HC because it would be to traumatic to make changes. (Sarcasm///)

BTW, Gary did a great job this yr playing with an injured QB with very little on the right side of the OL and an injured defense.

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Brian Billick. . . the offensive guru who needed to have one of the greatest defenses in the salary cap era to succeed, and when he didn't have that was a miserable failure.

Mike Holmgren. . . easily the most interesting name of the slop you listed as long as you ignore his personnel decisions for the browns of the last 3 years. Also, you will be putting him in charge of personnel.

Love Smith. . . you're saying you want a defensive Kubiak.

Nick Saban. . . Yes because he was so successful the first time.

I know you like to make sarcastic posts about Bob McNair (Since you seem to have gotten off of your crusade that Bob McNair is cheap, what happened with that) and then follow it up with a list of possible HC candidates that look almost like random names picked out of a hat.

For what it's worth, at least Kevin Sumlin is in the realm of "interesting" and not completely ridiculous like the other four that you came up with. Makes it seem like you watch tons of football (///Sarcasm)

Sumlin would be an interesting idea IF he can do a bit better in 2014 and Texans bomb in '13. I think McNair would like another local if Kubiak goes.

Sumlin is going to be a very solid and successful college head coach in his career, and maybe at some point down the road he will try to make the jump to the NFL. But to say right now today, with a coaching resume that has one year as head coach in a major conference, that he could step in and take the Texans farther than Kubiak can? Please...

This is only being brought up because he was "local" at UofH and is now at A&M. If he would have been head coach at Purdue or Clemson for one year and accomplished what he did at A&M, this conversation doesn't happen.

badboy said:

Sumlin would be an interesting idea IF he can do a bit better in 2014 and Texans bomb in '13. I think McNair would like another local if Kubiak goes.

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Why is Sumlin considered local? Because he coached four years at UofH? Was on Slocum's staff for a year or two over a decade ago?

He's from Indiana, went to Purdue, is from the Joe Tiller coaching tree, and honed his skills under Stoopes at OU. Dude was coaching all over the country for 20 years before he started signing head coach contracts in the Houston area.

He was leaving UofH and getting the gig at a bigger school, no matter where the best offer was. It just happened to be at A&M.

thunderkyss said:

So who starts next to Cushing? If you move Reed to ILB, who starts at SOLB if you let Barwin go?

I don't want to pay Barwin more than $5M for 2013, but I'm going to start at $2M & try to land him for $3. If we're not successful, then we've got a hole at ILB (because we can't move Reed) & outside pass rusher.... Reed is not a pass rusher.

I'm ok with starting Sharpton, & Dobbins, but not what I consider ideal.

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That's the $54,000,000 question for the Texans. No one can answer who starts next to who for the Texans until the Barwin saga works itself out. My guess is, if they lose Barwin (high probability), they keep Reed at OLB with Mercilus and draft an ILB (rd 1 or 2) to play next to Cush, and draft another OLB in mid rounds to rotate the others. If Barwin resigns (low probability IMO), they move Reed to ILB, draft another OLB early (rd 1 or 2), and draft another ILB in the mid rounds as backup and ST.

As for Sharpton and Dobbins, they could keep both as backups and ST, but Sharpton's injury history could come into play if it comes down to a numbers game. I'm not sure he makes the team. Dobbins I think they keep.

sandman said:

This is only being brought up because he was "local" at UofH and is now at A&M. If he would have been head coach at Purdue or Clemson for one year and accomplished what he did at A&M, this conversation doesn't happen.

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Without a doubt I am only interested because I know what he did at UH & A&M..... However, had he been the HC of some other college & I found he was successful at two different locations, I'd be open to the idea, especially if he had a run like Sumlin did at A&M (the only team to beat Alabama in 2012).

I'm looking forward to see what happens in Philly.

Having said that, I think the time to fire Kubiak is long past. You don't fire a coach who went 10-6 then 12-4. & you don't bench the QB that helped him get there.