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Old 06-18-2005   #41
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Originally Posted by Hulk75
Explian what games and what were the bad ones? Pockett awareness? he rushed 73 times for 300 yds 4.6 yd avg. and when blitzed makes good decisions (Kansas City game if you want to go watch it) and NObody can say anything about his arm strength it is up there with Bretts
I complimented his arm strength. If you want an explanation of pocket awareness read the entire thread. There are several options offered by myself and others throughout the thread.

By your previous post, I am probably not going to be able sway you with a logical arguemnt because you think Carr is already great and not young QB learning how to play the position. I am open to the fact that he could improve greatly and prove me wrong. Are you open to the fact that last year for every good game you could pull out, I could pull out another where he stepped into pressure repeatedly , or checked down too often and quickly to DomDavis?

BTW, scrambling stats if anything prove my point. QBs like Steve Young, McNabb, Culpepper became better QBs after they learned when to run versus taking off as soon as the DLman had more than an inch of space from the OLman. The best running QB in the league Michael Vick has the worse pocket awareness in the league. He was sacked 46 times with superior running skills to over half the RBs in the league.

Because I think Carr a starting calibur but, not great QB back does not mean I hate him. It is not an either/or game. Like most things the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you stop to comprehend what is written you would see that I am saying Carr is the middle of the pack of NFL QBs.
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Old 06-19-2005   #42
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Something else to ponder too is that the team did not open up the play book because they knew they were not gonna win too many games and did not want to overwhelm young players. Plus other teams can game plan you better with more on film. We have not given anyone too much to study.
Starting this season we're gonna see Mucho Mas plays with multiple formations that it's gonna keep the die-hard Texan fans on they're toes. And as far as the play book is concerned, I'm sure we waited to see what kind of talent we were gonna have before we carved too much in stone. This alone will help he Kid bloosom into a better QB.
I'm looking for about 3800+ yards passing with 30-32 TD's & 10-12 INT's. This prediction could be a year pre-mature but let's hope not.
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Old 06-19-2005   #43
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Originally Posted by Big B Texan Fan
I'm looking for about 3800+ yards passing with 30-32 TD's & 10-12 INT's. This prediction could be a year pre-mature but let's hope not.
I think Carr is going to improve this season, but not that much. Your saying that hes gonna double the amount of tds from last season (16). I think he will throw between 20-25 this season and im hoping he can cut his interceptions down to around 10 or so. If Carr can throw more than 25 tds next season, I will be very impressed.
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Old 06-19-2005   #44
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when the Texans quit getting themselves in third and long is when you will see Davids numbers start to increase and the sacks, int decrease and TD, and yardage increase. third and eight your not (i know its hard to believe for all you palmer haters and i am on of them) going to run the ball. so you get blitzed, sacked then punt.

For all you carr lovers out there dont stress out to much. this city has never liked any of its QB's. Hated pasterinie(i dont know how to spell his name) hated moon, hated billy joe tolliver but for abvious reasons-cause he sucked. I pesonaly couldnt stand cody carlson, in fact the only QB this city has ever liked is Bucky Richardson. I dont think he ever started a game.
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Old 06-19-2005   #45
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Originally Posted by Hulk75
Well if he is a middle of the pack qb and we are a middle of the pack franchise right now and we have seen all carr is going to do, wouldnt we be trying to get some qbs in here through FA or the draft to take his spot?
You want pockett presents then have carr dodge 1 guy then 3!
While you are being cute, there are some blitz pick-up where the job of the QB is to have released the ball or to avoid a certain blitzer and then throw the ball. (corner blitzes often fall into this category)

As for the Texans being a middle of the pack franchise, the hardest step for Carr as a QB and the Texans a franchise will be going from the big pile in the middle of the league to becoming consistent playoff and Superbowl contenders. A middle of the pack QB can have top 5 year and middle of the pack team can make a run at the Superbowl. Being a top 5-10 QB year in year out and serious playoff team for several years in a row in more challenging.

As for Carr this is a key year, as the number 1 pick and being allotted time to grow with a young franchise, he will be given four full years to develop. That's a ton of time in the NFL, but it is the proper thing to do in the texans situation. Over a career Carr and Harrington are pretty close in terms of career wins, pass rating, etc, but notice the Lions have brought in Garcia as at least a token challenge.
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Old 06-19-2005   #46
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Originally Posted by Hulk75
WHY?Put Tom Brady on our Texans and put Carr on the Patriots. You think the Texans would have 3 Superbowl rings by now. I believe that Carr would have a couple Superbowl rings playing for the Patriots right now, he is that good.
Once again, Arlington has hit the nail on the head. As to your question, I will disagree. I don't think Carr, at this stage of his career, would have led the Pats to a SB, nor would Brady have won one here, but that's an open question, and can be debated. What I don't think is an open question is comparing Carr's and Brady's careers. Brady has much, much better pocket awareness, desicion making, and comes up biggest in the biggest games. Right now, he is the best QB in the game, and that includes Manning. When Manning, or Carr put three SB trophies on thier mantle in 4 years, then we can talk. But, right now, this contest is a total rout, and Brady is far superior. And, to add insult to injury Carr was a #1 overall pick, and Brady a 6th rounder. Ouch!
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Old 06-19-2005   #47
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Very true, but there are times when he could learn to slide one or two steps to assist the OL instead of going into full flight mode. Lord knows he has reason to run screaming much of the time but he could improve in this area.
Speaking of that, if you go to the bottom of this page and click our home page you will see a new video that shows them working on sliding in the pocket. It's called Drill Instruction: Quarterbacks.
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Old 06-19-2005   #48
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...And, to add insult to injury Carr was a #1 overall pick, and Brady a 6th rounder. Ouch!
Not in the same draft. Brady was taken in the 2000 draft, 2 years prior to the Texans stepping on the field. There's no "Ouch", the Texans never had a shot at Brady. Or Manning for that matter.

And of course Brady & Manning are better QBs right now than Carr. But I will say that David has seen things in the NFL that Tom & Peyton never have. Did you know that despite playing 20 fewer games than Brady, Carr has been sacked 140 times compared to Brady's 130? Or that Carr has been sacked once more than Manning and has played in 72 fewer games. Sure pocket awareness can count for some of that. But a nearly 300% difference? Please!

Has Tom or Payton ever felt a rush the likes that David did against the Chargers in '02? The Saints in '03? Any Colt game or even the Browns last season? Yeah, they play in the same league. But Carr's experiences in the NFL backfield belong on a different planet, if not solar system.

Brady steps into a team that's capable of a Super Bowl run. Manning comes into the league with Marshall Faulk as his RB, Marvin Harrison his #1 WR, and Tarik Glenn his LT. They haven't had the "privilege" of lining up with Jimmy Herndon, Demingo Graham, Jonathan Wells, Billy Miller, & Seth Wand. Maybe Brady could have made it through the past 3 years here, I don't know. But from watching Manning scream bloody murder after each time he's touched, I know he wouldn't have made it. Carr has stood tall all 3 years and barely said a peep. Things are going to get better around here, and David Carr's leadership will play a big part in that. And leadership, not TD/Int ratio, is how you ultimately judge a QB.
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Old 06-19-2005   #49
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Think you are not giving Brady enough credit. The NE Patriots were a mediocore team and became a Superbowl contender once Brady was installed at QB. He makes the players around him better. That and his leadership are his greatest attributes. His skills as passer and in the pocket are often underrated by many.

NE's OL is okay, but not special. Unitl last year, he did not have an above average Rb and he does not have an Andre Johnson in his WR core.

I like Carr's leadership and toughness very much. No, he has not had even a mediocore pass blocking line, but I think blindly going when he gets a better OL, he will be a great QB is an oversimplification and ignores the fact he is not a complete product in his development.
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Old 06-20-2005   #50
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I do see at least his stats getting better because of the idea of shorter passes and timing routes because our receivers, especially AJ can make alot of YAC yards, and once the opposing defences stary keying on the short passes we at that point can air it out with play-action pass as long as o-line can hold the point of attack just a little better which I believe they will with the added time together of another season.


sorry about the spelling
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Old 06-21-2005   #51
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I agree that Carr has flaws in his game. I have yet to see a QB that doesn't. WHat kills me about the Carr haters is how they can come to the conclusion that he is not and never will be the QB to take us to the promised land. It's been pointed out before, but it bears repeating -- go look at year 1-3 stats on many of the big-name QBs out there. Aside from the two phenoms from the class of '84, most have very similar numbers to what Carr has. Hell, Plunkett suffered most of his career before finally landing ona good team and winning a Super Bowl. Favre was very erratic and many will argue that he still is. He's got hardware and he'll be in the HoF.

From a statistics standpoint, Carr has shown as much improvement as most other year 3 QBs that went on to be successful -- and more than many that never did. From an intangibles standpoint, he has courage, leadership, and a will to win. He's improved, from my observation, in the areas of awareness, decision-making with the football, and improvisation. You can point out flaws, but there simply isn't as much evidence to support the assertion that he won't be a Pro Bowl-caliber QB ..... yet. We'll see after the season, but at this point, Carr should be the #11 concern on an offense of 11 men, IMO.
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Old 06-21-2005   #52
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The thing is, I dont see how anyone can bash Carr seeing what he has to work with. Yes, he does have AJ to throw 2, but he doesnt have a good #2. He also has a horrible pass protection. He has all the tools to become a great QB, but until we get him a solid #2 WR and decent pass protection we can never see his true potential. I dont think we can/should judge him until he has better talent around him.
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Old 06-21-2005   #53
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Why would somebody compare Brady to Carr? Their repective teams are so different. Carr has more arm strength. I would be willing to bet that if he were somehow drafted by NE in 2002, then Carr would be their QB right now. I am probably giving NE's coaching the greatest credit, which appears to be due.

BTW, Brady or Big-Ben are mediocore if they are the Texans QB. The Texans just don't have the well established coaches and systems in place. If the Texans keep the coaches for the next couple years, then I think they have a shot at winning a SB with Carr at the helm. If the Texans change coaches now, then I think we could be 3-4 years away. IMHO.
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Old 06-21-2005   #54
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Carr is a good guy and he shows some talent I dont think people hate him. I think a lot of people like him he seems like a nice guy.But with that said the practice time is over and its time to win just look around the league other teams completely rebuild in a few years and get in the playoffs and it usually is behind a bold and determined QB and a run stopping defense so if Carr has something to show us its time. The Texans should be winners first and foremost no excuses even if its ugly we need to win. It has been a long time for Houston so whoever is QB Carr,Ragone,or someone else we need a winner now!
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Old 06-21-2005   #55
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[quote=ArlingtonTexan]
I am one of those who is called a Carr hater, because I think carr is a starting NFL quality QB in the range of Brooks or Plummer.

Cuz, Brooks is practically retarded... and I just want to KILL HIM when he laughs after throwing an interception. I am not saying Brooks doesn't have talent, but you must really hate Carr to rank him in the same category as Brooks when it comes to intangibles like leadership.
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Old 06-21-2005   #56
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There should be no question of Carrs leadership skills on or off the field. Just look at how he handled himself after the fans pelted his wife and children with beer. Put yourself in his position and think if that was your family. How would you react? He also handled the showers of boo's after the cleveland game. Couch was booed less than Carr and couch went on a radio show and whined like a baby. And then after all of that he still went to the football clinic for the lady's to help explain the game of football. Lets also remember during the Falcon game when Carr had a separated shoulder and came into replace banks and won that game for us. that was a late season game with nothing on the line and Carr brakes off a 30 yard run with a bum shoulder. No other QB in the league would have done that. Any other Qb would have told the coach to put ragone in. Look at Vick he sprains a pinky nail and he out 6-8 weeks.

And despite the record Carr had respectable numbers last year. He threw 16 touchdown in a heavily run offense. Yes he did throw 14 int but that is also the competitor in him trying to make somthing happen.

He is a competitor, a leader, a hard thrower, and i belive that he finaly has the tools around him for us to make it to the playoffs.

And on a side note has anyone noticed that the three players that we have on the headliner for the message board that carr looks like he is running for his life?
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Old 06-21-2005   #57
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^ no offense to you guys but if you looked at the acctual picture, you would probably see a defender diving to tackle him, I doubt he's just scramnbling because he wants to
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Old 06-21-2005   #58
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I just dont understand the Carr haters out there if you look at his numbers from last year they stand up well compared to the rest of the league.
Carrs QB rating of 83.5 put him ahead of qbs like Hasselbeck, Leftwich, Brooks, Vick and Carson Palmer. Davids completion percentage was better than Carson Palmers, Tom Brady, Leftwich, Hasselbeck, Plummer, Delhomme, Brooks, Vick and Harrington. He also threw for more yards than top QB's like Collins, Hasselbeck, Brees, Harrington, Leftwich, Palmer, Pennington, Roethlisberger, Vick and Warner+Eli manning combined. In fact in the AFC the only QB's to throw for more yards were Manning for the Colts(4557), Green from the Chiefs(4591), Plummer from the Broncos(4089) and Tom Brady from the Patriots(3692) Carr threw for 3531 yards with fewer attempts than any of these guys...

Player Yards Atts Yards + Atts +

Trent Green 4591 556 1060 more than Carr 90 more than Carr
Payton Manning 4557 497 1026 more than Carr 31 more than Carr
Jake Plummer 4089 521 558 more thaqn Carr 55 more Than Carr
Tom Brady 3692 474 161 more than Carr 8 more than Carr

Also the only better completion % in the AFC were Manning, Big Ben, Green, Brees and Pennington. These players all had advantages that helped them beat Carr

Manning has three number one recievers and a quality tight end he also calls many plays.
Big Ben played in a very safe offence only throwing 5-15 yard passes most of the time and very rarely threw the ball downfeild. He was also helped by the great recieving core of Ward, Buressand Randel El.
Trent Green has the best O-line, pass catching tight end and arguably the best pass catching RB in the league.
The very same for Brees with the exception of the Best O-Line a very good one but not the best.
Pennington was the only guy who didnt have a distinct advantage over Carr.
I'm not saying numbers are everything because even the most casual football fan knows thats not true. What I am saying that if you take these numbers and factor in that Carr did all these on a third year team with no true tight end, very poor pass protection (and a coach who is a run first run second and throw when you have to kind of coach) then what Carr did last year looks even more impressive. Add to that Davids leadership skills and passion for the game and tremendous arm strength and you have all the ingrediants of a future pro bowl QB.

P.S. Sorry the numbers got bunched up

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Old 06-21-2005   #59
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I don't see much 'Carr hating' here. Why call people talking about the quarterback - and care to critique his game - "Carr haters"? What's with that?
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Old 06-21-2005   #60
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My only concern about last season was that it was a tale of two halves
for Carr--great 1st half, horrible second. And,too, our running game was
solid the 2nd half so what happened to our passing game? For us to win
and be a playoff contender, I believe we are going to need to be more
consistent. As Capers pointed out, we only won 3 of our last 9 games
in '04 as our passing game was non-existent during that period. I'm not
saying it was all Carrs fault but the season is 16 games, so-for me- I'd
like to see more consistency and a greater emphasis on winning and less
on stats.
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