Cowher on the Texans

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

The thing we all need to learn, is not only do you have to have the right QB, but you've got to have the right team behind them.

I don't know if the Texans have the "right team". I am sure that they don't have the right QB. Schuab is closer to Neil O'Donnell (who actually got to a Super Bowl) than Marino, Moon, or Kelly. And while Roethlisberger didn't have a great Super Bowl XL, his 8 TDs - 1 Int performance in the playoffs certainly helped get them there. No, I think anyone who is familiar with the game would say that Roethlisberger in 2005 was a better QB than Schaub in 2012.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Lucky

I don't know if the Texans have the "right team". I am sure that they don't have the right QB. Schuab is closer to Neil O'Donnell (who actually got to a Super Bowl) than Marino, Moon, or Kelly. And while Roethlisberger didn't have a great Super Bowl XL, his 8 TDs - 1 Int performance in the playoffs certainly helped get them there. No, I think anyone who is familiar with the game would say that Roethlisberger in 2005 was a better QB than Schaub in 2012.

Yeah, well my intention wasn't to get into an argument about it, nor did I intend to suggest Matt is the right QB. Just pointing out that while the QB does have value, so does the other 52 guys that make up a roster. The key is to find that balance.

Ben & Tom are both better QBs now than when they won Super Bowls, but both are asked to do a lot more as well.

[ObsiWan]

Thanks for the link TK.

And I'm now officially a Cowher fan. Any dude that's into Earth, Wind, and Fire and Donna Summer is okay in my book.

Interesting how he asked "Do I have a healthy Brian Cushing?" and not "Do I have a healthy Matt Schaub or Arian Foster or Andre Johnson...

[MEGA SWATT]

Interesting comments from BC. Thanks OP.

[gary]

Injuries are not a reason to lose.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Thanks for the link TK.

And I'm now officially a Cowher fan. Any dude that's into Earth, Wind, and Fire and Donna Summer is okay in my book.

Interesting how he asked "Do I have a healthy Brian Cushing?" and not "Do I have a healthy Matt Schaub or Arian Foster or Andre Johnson...

All those guys were healthy this year.

[Txn_in_Oki]

Originally Posted by gary

Injuries are not a reason to lose.

I don't see how that's the case. If your starters are out injured then your also rans are in the game. There is a reason they are second string and not starters. You will get some production out of them but there's no way you can expect the same result or impact. I think it was pretty obvious when Cushing went down.

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by gary

Injuries are not a reason to lose.

My response would be, "It's a game of attrition."

[silvrhand]

I'd give my left nut to have Cowher as our coach..

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Txn_in_Oki

I don't see how that's the case. If your starters are out injured then your also rans are in the game. There is a reason they are second string and not starters. You will get some production out of them but there's no way you can expect the same result or impact. I think it was pretty obvious when Cushing went down.

Probably can't expect the same results, but it's the teams job to have at least competent replacements, and the coaches' jobs to coach around it.

[Rey]

You know, all this stuff comes back to QB play. QB is the one position that has wins and losses tied to their stats and for good reason. No it's not all on the QB. Not even close....BUT when you have a qb that is playing well you have a shot to win ever game...every year...every play-off run....

When your QB plays the way Schaub played down the stretch and in certain sports this year, it takes a monumental effort from the rest of the team.

In the Superbowl, the Ravens didn't have everything going for them. Pollard didn't have a great game, Ray Lewis was not good, Ngata got injured, Ray Rice didn't have a good game, their O-line gave up a bunch of pressure, Torrey Smith didn't have a great game...Terrell Suggs didn't have a great game...

What you did have was a QB that was escaping pressure, making throws down field...making great throws for much of the game.

You also had a return kick from Jacoby and a big receiving play. An interception by Ed Reed...And then some good all around play from the defense on multiple occasions.


The best way I can put it is that a football team getting a win is like a pie chart (from a player performance perspective). Just by the nature of the QB position he's going to get weighted more heavily. You need to get 100% someway to fill up the pie chart. You either have to have a dominant defensive performance. A good all around game from everyone. A great special teams performance...Something....

Over the course of the play-offs (when you are facing the best teams playing their hardest) you cannot win all the games required to hold a Lombardi with sub standard QB play. People that want to back Schaub may not want to hear that, but you can win with your O-line giving up some pressure...Not having a great run game...only one receiving target having a great game...your defense giving up points...your MLB being old and not as good...an injury to a key player...one or more of your top players not doing much of anything...

Yeah, you need other guys to step up, but during a play-off run the guys that step up will vary from game to game. Maybe your qb can have 1 off game...MAYBE....But most likely your QB has to be on when it counts or you won't win. That's just reality.

If Schaub doesn't play better than he did down the stretch this past season, we aren't winning anything with him at QB. Put that in the bank. Cushing, or no Cushing. With the way the NFL is built these days if your QB is not on, your chances of winning go down exponentially compared to other areas of the team.

My main concern heading into next year is Schaub playing better or finding someone who can.

Building a super team around Schaub where he can have bad games during the play-offs but the defense, running game, special teams, and coaches beast out is not realistic. Whatever other changes we make this off season are not even relevant if Schaub doesn't play better down the stretch.

[Double Barrel]

Having an immobile noodle-arm choke-under-pressure QB is always a liability to playoff teams, not an asset.

[76Texan]

Obviously, having a good QB enhances the chance to win.
I just read an article (but didn't note the source), the common trait of SB Bowl participants are still a good defense on top of it all.

The winners allowed fewer than 18 points in the regular season; the looser 19.

The Texans didn't have that.

There's always abnormality, but you get the gist of it.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Whatever other changes we make this off season are not even relevant if Schaub doesn't play better down the stretch.

Great post Rey. Lengthy read, but I think you hit all the major points. There is no question Matt has to play better than he did at any point in the regular season.

It's really hard to know what to believe in hindsight. You "feel" like Schaub had a below standard year, but you look at the stats & he was par for the year. 4000 yards, nothing to brag about when you've come to expect it from your QB. 22 TDs, yeah I'd like to see more, but Matt's only thrown for more twice in his long career. 12 INTs, he's never thrown for less than 12 in a season he's started all 16 games (since becoming a starter that's only happened 3 times). And then there's that winning 12 games thing.

I felt Matt played well (not good, not great) in three games during the regular season. Denver, Detroit, & Jacksonville. I feel like he had a sub par year taking advantage of the run game & the defensive turnovers.

But 4000 yards, 22 TDs, 12 int, 90.9 QbR in a bad year? It's not like everyone was saying Matt was playing great all year. All year they were saying he need to play better. All year they were saying the defense or the run game bailed him out. All year...... but he still threw for 4000 yards, 22 Tds, 12 ints, & a 90.9 QBr. So we all know he can play better. Despite his arm strength, despite his lack of mobility, despite his ho-hum mentality, we all know Matt Schaub can play better.

& still he played better than Joe Flacco in the regular season.

3 games in the post season completely flipped how the majority of people viewed Joe Flacco. Yeah, there was two or three Ravens fans that knew it all along. But other than that, Flacco's name was not among the better QBs in the league, now he's somewhere near the top.

Who'd have been talking about Joe Flacco if Jacoby did not make that spectacular catch against Denver? Up until that point, Flacco had elevated his game, but if not for that catch, it was good, but not good enough & that's how we would have remembered it. He made some big throws to Torrey Smith early in the game, Anquan Bolden made some amazing catches...... but we'd have forgotten them & all that if Jacoby dropped that ball.

That same weekend Schaub serves up a beauty of a TD pass to a fan favorite, sure handed receiving target as that player was crossing the goal line. Couldn't serve it up any better. But he dropped it.

I honestly don't see how our fans do not relate that drop with Jacoby's muff last season. Last season Jacoby's muff gives the Ravens the momentum to eventually win that game.

If we score that TD right there, is it possible that our defense "believes" our offense was going to do their part? Is it possible that we'd have seen a totally different game from those guys? If James Casey would have caught that easy, easy TD.


Of course if Matt & Andre were on the same page they could have erased that on the next play, but that didn't happen either.

Again, Matt had a "poor" play-offs. But you look at his stats for the two games he did play..... 65% + completion in both games. 250 yards one game, 340 the other game. 83 QBr against the Bengals, 90 QBr against the Patriots..... what are the odds that we'd be thinking differently of Matt Schaub right now, had James Casey caught that gimme in the end zone? & our defense play like they do when we have a lead?

What are the odds we'd be thinking differently about Flacco had Jacoby not caught that amazing catch to extend that game in Denver?

The NFL is a funny beast.

Once you think you've got it all figured out, Jacoby Jones enters the Super Bowl MVP conversation.

[Tailgate]

We run the effing zone running scheme.... And its a well known fact that this offense needs a dominant O-LINE to succeed. PERIOD. We did not have that last year and EVERYTHING suffered as a result. We lose Cushing, then bam... There goes our leader and bone crusher in the middle of the D.

[Rey]

Tk, do you remember the rosencopter game?

Sage had a decent game overall. Had the defense not allowed the subsequent scores that lost us the game, is sage a better qb in your view?

Sage could make things happen on the field but he was mistake prone. No one cares that romo puts up numbers. He doesn't perform when you absolutely need it. Difference with romo is that you know he can physically do it, but mentally...questionable...

With schaub it's a question of both. Chad Pennington and John kitna both put up good numbers as starters. I don't want either as my franchise guy.

Can schaub physically make the plays in crucial moments...can he make the throws that most championship qb's have to make on their way to winning the sb? Can he escape pressure and make plays outside the pocket when it calls for it (because it will call for it)?

Then after all that, Im not sold that he can even mentally make the crucial plays down the stretch.

Schaub has big questions to answer and I don't know how anyone says they have complete faith that he will make those plays in the end. I think this is his make or break year honestly. If he plays this upcoming season like he finished last year he will probably be done as a starting qb here and I don't really seeing many teams making him their starting franchise qb.

Spotlight is on schaub. Hopefully he rises to the occasion like a champ.

[bckey]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Having an immobile noodle-arm choke-under-pressure QB is always a liability to playoff teams, not an asset.

lol!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Tk, do you remember the rosencopter game?

Sage had a decent game overall. Had the defense not allowed the subsequent scores that lost us the game, is sage a better qb in your view?

Sage could make things happen on the field but he was mistake prone. No one cares that romo puts up numbers. He doesn't perform when you absolutely need it. Difference with romo is that you know he can physically do it, but mentally...questionable...

My opinion of Sage never changed. Rosencopter didn't phase me one bit. We were a team hungry for wins & he was trying to get us a win against our nemesis. Funny that now, Kubiak gets criticized for getting a lead & trying to run the ball. The same guys that criticize him for it, are the same guys dumping on Sage for not turtling up.

If I had my rathers, I'd have started Sage & looked for a franchise QB before I traded two 2nds for a 4 year back-up with 1 decent game under his belt. We basically drafted Brandon Weeden. Sage is a gamer & would've tried his butt off for every third down, & every red zone possession. He might have made a few mistakes here & there but I believe his play making would make up for it.

But that doesn't mean Schaub is worthless..... & after watching him play for 6 seasons, I've got no idea why he was chosen to run a WCO.

Originally Posted by Rey

Can schaub physically make the plays in crucial moments...can he make the throws that most championship qb's have to make on their way to winning the sb? Can he escape pressure and make plays outside the pocket when it calls for it (because it will call for it)?

Then after all that, Im not sold that he can even mentally make the crucial plays down the stretch.

Schaub has big questions to answer and I don't know how anyone says they have complete faith that he will make those plays in the end. I think this is his make or break year honestly. If he plays this upcoming season like he finished last year he will probably be done as a starting qb here and I don't really seeing many teams making him their starting franchise qb.

Spotlight is on schaub. Hopefully he rises to the occasion like a champ.

I do not have complete faith in Schaub. Your criticism of Schuab makes a lot more sense than what we've been seeing on this board lately. I just choose not to jump in on the madness. The questions about Schaub are more mental than anything. We've seen him make big plays with big throws down field. Not perfect.... but prior to 2012 he made 40+ yard throws with more regularity than most of the big names (76 has the numbers for you).. We've seen him make plays outside the pocket. It's rare, but it happens. Go back & watch the Raiders game from last season he made several off-schedule plays.

Schaub didn't play well enough for us to beat New England.... nobody did. If Arian played better I think we win that game. If Newton & Jones plays better, I think we win that game. If OD & Graham abused the Patriots LBs like every body else's TEs, I think we win that game.

If Connor Barwin has a better game, we win. If Brooks Reed had a better game, we win. If Antonio Smith, or even Jj Watt had a better game, we win. If Kj, Jj, or Manning gets a pick 6 or two, we win the game. If Quin or Manning forces a few fumbles...

We expected everyone of those guys to step up & play championship football. None of them did.

Who was our Shane Vareen? Our Jacoby Jones?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

If I had my rathers, I'd have started Sage & looked for a franchise QB before I traded two 2nds for a 4 year back-up with 1 decent game under his belt. We basically drafted Brandon Weeden.

Using my logic & assuming we'd have used one of those 2nd round picks on a QB, we'd have

• Kevin Kolb
• John Beck
• Drew Stanton
• Brian Brohm
• Chad Henne

as our franchise QB. I'd love to have seen what Kubiak could have done with Kolb, Stanton, or Henne.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Who was our Shane Vareen? Our Jacoby Jones?

Lets say I fully buy into your points in this post. (for the record, I do buy into a lot of it.) That would actually make me feel worse about this team moving forward. That means that our coaching staff and/or GM have not done nearly a good enough job of finding championship caliber level players and or getting players to play at that level.

Who was our Vareen? Hard to have a guy like that when you have Kubiak not even willing to play Ben Tate or Forsett who have usable skills....Maybe Ben Tate or Forsett could have provided something different and made some big plays...Who knows?

Who was our Jacoby Jones? Well we had Jacoby Jones. We had Trindon Holiday...We let those guys go and I wasn't one of the fans saying either needed to be released for football reasons. I defended Jacoby til the end, but realized that he was going to need a fresh start somewhere because the city was against him. Hard to concentrate on football when you have a city that would spit on you if they saw you (maybe worse).

Again, this isn't all on Matt Schaub. It's a combination of funk. From all phases. But for me, it revolves around Schaub and Kubiak. Next up would be Wade and Marciano and I'm not exactly sure where Rick Smith fits.

I've seen the defense play championship level football. Defense had a bunch of injuries this year. Offense had everyone intact. They had the full list of ingredients to choose from all year long and Chef Kub-are-dee didn't fix a good enough dish.

Wade didn't either and he could have done a better job. You have Watt having a historic season inside and you can't find a compliment on the outside. Fail.

I know Wade can fix his issues though. I'm convinced that he can. So I'm hopeful for the defense. Cushing coming back will be huge too.

What deeply concerns me about the offense is that I don't know if Kubiak as a head coach can make the decisions and calls to win games when it counts. Same with Schaub.