Brooks to move to ILB

[badboy]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Agreed on Watt, Barwin's value should be very reasonable. He'going to be playing the Sam, so his sack total should go down accordingly. SAM is Barwins best position. He was miscast as a pass rushing WILL. Hopefully Mercilus will show the kind of improvement he did in college from his soph to Jr yrs and become the pass rusher the defense is lacking.

Where did you get the list of who the Texans were talking too at the East/west and Sr Bowl?

OH no!

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by deucetx

Don't forget Tim Jamison. They actually signed him to the extension before he got hurt which made me immediately think Smith was a goner. Course after how the pass rush was essentially only two guys this year it may change their direction. What happens may speak about Smith's ability as a GM. Can he get a restructure or we looking at another 'Dump and go'.

Draft will be interesting. If they do like GP suggested and get a real strong NT maybe that means Wade will adjust his defense (and he freaking needs to) and maybe change his nickle to a 3-3 with Merci/Watt on the edge. I rather that than depend on the OLB's we have now if we retain Barwin.

While we have all been talking Schaub like crazy this defense was freaking atrocious against the Patriots and the Ravens made it look a hell of a lot easier than we did which irritated me to no end.

Yeah, must admit Jamison does get forgotten at times. He has flashed some potential in the past but I don't know if its enough to fully depend on him as a full time starter. I would rather seem him in rotation before deeming him a full time starter. Smith's contract seems to be a topic of concern & to be honest my faith in Rick Smith is very limited as the "dump & go" seems to be his specialty.

The NT position is one of those positions I was actually alluding to w/ the player waiting in the wings comment. Cody was never anything really special outside of his "on the nose" work & Mitchell has been improving at least enough to out produce Cody, so seeing them not address this need w/ an early pick or FA would, unfortunately, not surprise me. A big body in the middle would be great & I believe is needed but Wade has obviously felt otherwise here & when he was Arlington. It's hard to teach & old dog new tricks.

Wade's thought process since he has gotten here has somewhat confused me at times considering he at one point started an OLB who was just as big if not bigger then his D-lineman. I know he turned this defense & essentially the team around, but there is obviously some issues now & it does not seem that he is adjusting w/ the game plans or personnel. I hope some adjustments are made & I personally think a big body in the middle w/ a good motor would be a great start.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by tru80texan

Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.

Not sure what his 2013 base is. His original cotract was restructured in April 2011 but I cannot discover how. ROTO still shows the $6m but this:

Posted by Nick Scurfield on August 4, 2011 – 1:38 pm


Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson, linebacker DeMeco Ryans and defensive end Antonio Smith have restructured their contracts, head coach Gary Kubiak said on Thursday morning.


Now it could have just effected the 2011 season to help get under the cap OR '11, '12 and '13. IIRC somhad had filed a guestimate on new deal but I canno tlocate.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by tru80texan

Yeah, must admit Jamison does get forgotten at times. He has flashed some potential in the past but I don't know if its enough to fully depend on him as a full time starter. I would rather seem him in rotation before deeming him a full time starter. Smith's contract seems to be a topic of concern & to be honest my faith in Rick Smith is very limited as the "dump & go" seems to be his specialty.

I wouldn't think the Texans are looking at Jamison as a starter. To me, both Crick & Jamison are solid role players who may one day be starters, but right now I haven't seen anything to feel good about either of them stepping in that role.

If we lose Antonio, we should expect a big drop from that position & take precautions to make sure we have a guy to start. FA or draft.

Just my opinion, but if we go into 2013 with either Jamison or Crick starting, our FO failed us. & I like what I've seen from both Crick & Jamison, just don't think they are starting caliber yet.

[Vinny]

Jameson isn't a starter quality player...well, if he is you are looking for a starter.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by GP

I could see Gary going heavy on defense in the draft.

First round, draft a better NT to help out Watt. Or go LB in round 1 and NT in round 2, whatever is better value at those two spots.

This gets us more push up front with the better NT, and gets us another LB who will definitely see action in 2013 (in the 34, LBs rule the day...and we were crushed with injuries there in 2012). Cushing is back, too. The front 7 strengthened as a result. Cody and Mitchell as depth and rotation at NT.

This will make the Secondary better.

Which makes the defense back to its 2011 form....which makes "Gary Ball" better than it was in 2012.

WR/TE in the 3rd and 4th, token QB somewhere in the 5th or beyond. CBs in later rounds. Call it a draft. Then hope you can find some UDFA gold nuggets.

This is the way I have seen this offseason since before it was the offseason. I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them. Get the defense back to where they were last year by improving the weak area (middle) and look for young players with potential on offense to take over in time. I would like to see an OT with good feet at some point in the draft to groom as a swing tackle.

The OL played better in the playoffs and with more time and a full training camp should be even better next year. This will automatically improve the running game and take pressure of Schaub as will an improved defense.

By giving Schaub more weapons and ignoring the defense we will actually be relying on Schaub more thus adding more pressure on him to be the man. Which we all know he is not.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by mussop

This is the way I have seen this offseason since before it was the offseason. I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them. Get the defense back to where they were last year by improving the weak area (middle) and look for young players with potential on offense to take over in time. I would like to see an OT with good feet at some point in the draft to groom as a swing tackle.

The OL played better in the playoffs and with more time and a full training camp should be even better next year. This will automatically improve the running game and take pressure of Schaub as will an improved defense.

By giving Schaub more weapons and ignoring the defense we will actually be relying on Schaub more thus adding more pressure on him to be the man. Which we all know he is not.

The thing is we've been giving Wade a lot of toys to play with ever since he's been here.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

The thing is we've been giving Wade a lot of toys to play with ever since he's been here.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by mussop

This is the way I have seen this offseason since before it was the offseason. I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them. Get the defense back to where they were last year by improving the weak area (middle) and look for young players with potential on offense to take over in time. I would like to see an OT with good feet at some point in the draft to groom as a swing tackle.

The OL played better in the playoffs and with more time and a full training camp should be even better next year. This will automatically improve the running game and take pressure of Schaub as will an improved defense.

By giving Schaub more weapons and ignoring the defense we will actually be relying on Schaub more thus adding more pressure on him to be the man. Which we all know he is not.

Originally Posted by mussop

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

We brought in several defensive players: Manning, JJo, Watt, Reeds, B Harris, Mercilus (2 high paying FAs and 4 draft picks - 2 firsts, and 2 seconds.)

But we took away a couple of veterans on the line.
(B Brook was a third, but haven't played much yet.)
We also lost a vet TE who had developed into a red zone weapon, replacing him with Graham,
a 4th round draft pick (Wade also has Crick and Carmichael, two 4ths, on his unit.)
We replaced our deepest threat with a slower Jean who was so inconsistent downfield that he was replaced by Posey (a 3rd) late in the season.
The 4th that we used on Martin in the slot also failed Schaub several times, dropping 4 passes in very few routes ran, slipped and fell on another, and often got beat to the spot (not being aggressive enough) several times.
We also lost the bruiser Leach, then Vickers.

All these lost on personnel hindered the running game; and in turn, affected the passing game.

I don't even ask for "more", just enough to replace the lost, and the defense still has more fire power than the O.

You know I only rate Schaub somewhere between 11-15, but I must admit, the Texans did not give him enough pieces to function at a high level, capable of truly contending in the play-offs.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by mussop

I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them.

Where does this come from? Schaub has consistently shown the ability to spread the ball around & get the ball out on time. He's thrown it deep, short, midrange...... he's thrown the screen, between the hashes, outside the numbers.....

Again I'm not his biggest fan, but he's made just about every throw you can ask a QB to make. He doesn't throw the fade as often or as well as I'd like to see. I don't like his ball placement. I don't think he leads receivers when he should...

But he doesn't regularly lead them into trouble, he doesn't regularly take sacks, he doesn't regularly make dumb plays, & he generally takes care of the ball.

He's only 31..... I know he looks 41 but he's not. He's not as mobile a QB as I'd like. He generally does not extend plays. But he's been more good, than worthless through out his career.

It takes a while before he starts to trust some receivers...... I get it. Took him a while to trust Jacoby... ok, he never got around to trusting Jacoby, but there's a reason for that. Took him a while to trust Dressen but he eventually did.

He's coming around to trusting Graham, looks like he was getting into Posey.... he had no problem throwing to Martin for a while...

Schaub's got some issues, but delivering the ball... hitting open receivers, isn't one of them.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by deucetx

The thing with this is, the NT doesn't play that much at all. Those passing situations those guys are usually not on the field. Our nickle and sub packages are mainly Watt and Smith as the linemen and our edge guys. That's it. Among 3-4 teams I looked up our NT's seemed to play the least in comparison. So getting a NT first may not solve as much as we all hope unless someone stops being stubborn and makes some proper adjustments against elite/spread teams.

I believe if we get a Ngata/Raji type of player that player would stay on the field more often. The Ninja had an excellent year, he's under contract, & I think he's a Texan through & through, meaning he'll restructure (I don't think we'll ask him to take a paycut after the year he had) if we need him to.

That said, unless Wade sees a Jj Watt type of guy in the first, I'd much rather they try to find the guy we need (Crick maybe) in the lower rounds. With competent coaches on defense, we should expect to see UDFAs (Jamison maybe) become highly productive members on the defensive side of the ball. Or at least contribute to the extent as Quin & McCain.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by amazing80

First, LOL if you think Gary had ANYTHING to do with this

2nd, this is a great move but IMO you can add olb to our list of needs even if we resign barwin.....still need a legit 3rd rusher to rotate in there

Not to mention NT is still a big need

Might not of been GK ideal but you can bet he had to approve it before it happened.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Agreed on Watt, Barwin's value should be very reasonable. He'going to be playing the Sam, so his sack total should go down accordingly. SAM is Barwins best position. He was miscast as a pass rushing WILL. Hopefully Mercilus will show the kind of improvement he did in college from his soph to Jr yrs and become the pass rusher the defense is lacking.

Where did you get the list of who the Texans were talking too at the East/west and Sr Bowl?

Saw it on Walterfootball.com. Here is a link http://walterfootball.com/eastwest2013interviews1.php

[CloakNNNdagger]

I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.

Good! Then I hope we get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick in 2014!

[SteveSlaton20]

not sure how i feel about this. brooks reed played DE in high school/college and never had to cover.

one of the reason why cushing make this defense excellent is because he can cover, play the run well, and blitz. sure reed can be a run stopper and can blitz, but to be a good ilb, he needs to be able to cover.

[GP]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.

I hope he leaves.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by SteveSlaton20

not sure how i feel about this. brooks reed played DE in high school/college and never had to cover.

one of the reason why cushing make this defense excellent is because he can cover, play the run well, and blitz. sure reed can be a run stopper and can blitz, but to be a good ilb, he needs to be able to cover.

Reed is a second year player in the NFL. He's covered NFL TEs, RBs, & WRs as an OLB.

I think we can forget about what he was asked to do in college & high-school.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by tru80texan

The same could easily be said about mario's sacks from that season, as well as many other seasons to be honest, & yet some hold him in high regards. Mario was extremely overrated, IMO, & he normally needed a clear advantage to even sniff a sack. Hardly the game changer, similar to Watt, that many falsely claimed he was. So that knock on Barwin by most in Houston is quite laughable after all the unearned attention Mario received.

Considering Barwin set a franchise record for sacks in 1 game w/ 4 & accumulated most of his sacks in the remaining 10 games when he took over Mario's position I would say his 2011 was quite memorable...at least it was to me. I think Barwin still has plenty of potential & 2 seasons is hardly enough for us to know what he is truly capable of IMO.

For good or ill I'm kind of in this position where Barwin is concerned. Two season, one good and one bad aren't enough to determine anything. Give me a third season and lets see how it goes. Then I'll decide which way he's trending. I mean, if the guy comes out next year and gets 10-12 sacks then what does that mean? It means 2012 he had a down year.

Now on the other hand if he comes out in 2013 and keeps stinking it up then you want to have another player to turn to on the roster to maybe light a fire under Barwin's ass or replace him. I still think if we can sign Barwin now for a reasonable amount of money then do it. Just don't break the bank on him yet.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Give me a third season and lets see how it goes. Then I'll decide which way he's trending.

If Barwin would take a one year deal, that would be great. But, I'm sure some team more desperate than the Texans will offer more than that. 19 sacks in 49 games from a primary pass rusher is just not good enough. Had Barwin still a year left on his deal, the Texans should be looking for competition, if not a replacement.