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Old 01-30-2013   #61
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by rolyat93 View Post
Do we plan on bringing back Dobbins? I'm a fan of his, he's nice depth.
This is my concern.
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Old 01-30-2013   #62
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
I believe the Texans will offer Barwin a fair deal for multiple years. The 1 year deal or incentive laden only deal I can't see working or being enough to sign him. There are plenty of teams going to a 3-4 & pass rushers w/ the potential that Barwin possesses are at a premium. Let's not forget or disregard the facts that this is a 6'3" 268lb OLB who runs a 4.5 forty & accumulated 11 sacks in 2011. He is capable & 1 down season hardly constitutes him as a complete bust imo. If that was the case then Cushing should've been deemed a bust as well as he suffered a slump in his 2nd season as a starter as well. Barwin has been around for 4yrs, but this was only his 2nd season as a starter & I believe he still has room to grow.

I don't believe he earned a huge contract by any means, but for the right price I would be happy to have him back as opposed to the unknown w/ a raw rookie. The Texans do still need to address the OLB & ILB in draft, IMO, for depth purposes.
If Barwin resigns for the "right price" I guess that would be OK but something that is coming up within the next couple of years is the resigning of JJ Watt. I would prefer the Texans not tie up a lot of money on other players that may OK and put themselves in a bind later when it comes time to resign Watt. The offers for Watt, when he becomes a FA, could dwarf Mario's. My hope is the Texans will be able to extend him a few years before he can hit the market. They cannot lose Watt!

As for still addressing ILB and OLB in the draft, I couldn't agree with you more, even if they resign Barwin and move Reed to ILB. It may not be in the 1st or 2nd round but they will draft some LB's. They were looking at Sio Moore from Connecticut at the East/West All-star Game. He's an OLB that could go in the middle to late rounds. It's a very weak class for ILB, so they can't wait too long to pick one.
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Old 01-30-2013   #63
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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If Barwin resigns for the "right price" I guess that would be OK but something that is coming up within the next couple of years is the resigning of JJ Watt. I would prefer the Texans not tie up a lot of money on other players that may OK and put themselves in a bind later when it comes time to resign Watt. The offers for Watt, when he becomes a FA, could dwarf Mario's. My hope is the Texans will be able to extend him a few years before he can hit the market. They cannot lose Watt!

As for still addressing ILB and OLB in the draft, I couldn't agree with you more, even if they resign Barwin and move Reed to ILB. It may not be in the 1st or 2nd round but they will draft some LB's. They were looking at Sio Moore from Connecticut at the East/West All-star Game. He's an OLB that could go in the middle to late rounds. It's a very weak class for ILB, so they can't wait too long to pick one.
Agreed on Watt, Barwin's value should be very reasonable. He'going to be playing the Sam, so his sack total should go down accordingly. SAM is Barwins best position. He was miscast as a pass rushing WILL. Hopefully Mercilus will show the kind of improvement he did in college from his soph to Jr yrs and become the pass rusher the defense is lacking.

Where did you get the list of who the Texans were talking too at the East/west and Sr Bowl?
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Old 01-30-2013   #64
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
One down year or one year with a ton of untouched sacks and 3 the next season?
Let's not forget he did have a decent rookie season playing very sparingly & yet he accumulated 4.5 sacks which was half the total of the great Mario while playing quite a bit less then the great one. The potential is there imo. It's only been 2yrs in Wade's system & its obvious they are still debating on who goes where, so I think that has to be fixed before we call certain players a bust.
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Old 01-30-2013   #65
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

I called this from the beginning.

Reed is very similar to Cushing. He would make a much better ILB then a OLB. He just doesn't have the pass rush skills. He can set the edge just like Cushing did at OLB.
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Old 01-30-2013   #66
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
Let's not forget he did have a decent rookie season playing very sparingly & yet he accumulated 4.5 sacks which was half the total of the great Mario while playing quite a bit less then the great one. The potential is there imo. It's only been 2yrs in Wade's system & its obvious they are still debating on who goes where, so I think that has to be fixed before we call certain players a bust.
I never called him a bust. He was jag this year though. Nothing special. Potential means you haven't done it yet. Hopefully they sign him cheap and find another pass rusher.
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Old 01-30-2013   #67
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I never called him a bust. He was jag this year though. Nothing special. Potential means you haven't done it yet. Hopefully they sign him cheap and find another pass rusher.
I hear ya & agree. Barwin did himself no favors, but I'm attempting to look at the big picture & the seasons that I mentioned he did show some flashes of being a good player. I think acquiring an ILB & OLB is a must.

It's kinda funny how you defined "potential" because that was always a word that was linked to Mario yr in & yr out. Which always made me question at what point do you quit claiming there is untapped potential & the player is who he is. As you can probably tell...I'm not a Mario fan & haven't been for quite a few yrs.
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Old 01-30-2013   #68
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

With Paul Kruegar and Anthony Spencer, two better-than-average SAM 3-4OLBs on the market, you'd think Barwin's value would drop a bit. Somebody will still go nuts and give him a big deal off of 2011 though.
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Old 01-30-2013   #69
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
This could work or be a complete failure.

I'm nit a fan of the overall players that reed, barwin or merciless are. But they each have skill sets that can be useful.

I'd rather draft or sign a real MLB that won't have as many limitations that reed has. Hes not all that fluid and hes not all that quick or sudden when he's on the field. But if he's the silb then he's good enough to take in the fb, but he's going to get eaten alive in pass coverage in the middle of the field. If he has to cover for more than a few seconds.

Barwin is better suited for the solb position than the wolb position where he was counted on to be the primary source of outside pressure. But both are just average players. Nothing special about either and I'd be concerned with having both on the field for a majority of our snaps.

I'd rather add another dynamic player to the mix and not have so many blah guys with a returning from injury Cushing.

As far as merciless goes, he's good at getting to the qb when he's not touched or when he makes his second move to the qb once he starts scrambling or moving around. He's not shown that he can line up and beat tackles just from a pure skill stand point. Much of his sacks were unblocked or when a qb started to move around. But he has good quickness and closing speed. Again, a useful skill that is valuable, but I don't see him as being a dominant edge player. I think he can be ok if put in a good position...just like reed and barwin. I think they all have some big weaknesses to their games.

IMO, if this move happens and barwin re signs that won't be a good thing for the defense over the course of the year. I think they'd have some strong performances mixed with some awful ones, but overall I think they'd be an underwhelming group as a whole.

If I was the texans id let barwin go and leave reed at solb. Let merciless start as well, but draft another guy in the 1st or second round to put pressure on them both. I'm not thrilled with the ilb draft class, but there are guys in free agency that would be upgrades over what we had. Some older players, some younger guys. Pick one or two of them up.
If Mercilus improves as much as he did between his Soph and Jr yrs in college Wade will have found his premeir pass rusher. This remains to be seen.

I'm meh about Barwin, if they re-sign him I think he will be an above avg SOLB. I get what you're saying about Reed, but he still would be an upgrade over the James/Dobbins duo that finished the yr. I look at the potential Cushing/Reed combo as somewhat comparable to the Bingham/Kiner ILB duo on the old Oiler teams. Reed will be a solid vet vet and Cushing will be the playmaker.
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Old 01-30-2013   #70
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by rolyat93 View Post
Do we plan on bringing back Dobbins? I'm a fan of his, he's nice depth.
I think they do bring him back .... he played well when forced into action and was solid on ST.
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Old 01-30-2013   #71
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

makes sense, and its the 'cheap' alternative. that way they wont be married to a defensive player with the 1st pick. i think that as an OLB reed was an average pass rusher, but as an ILB he'll be able to get to the QB and has the athleticism to cover a TE down the field. hey at least they're trying. i'm gonna slap someone if brady james and barret ruud are on this team next year.
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Old 01-30-2013   #72
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I think they do bring him back .... he played well when forced into action and was solid on ST.
I was down on dobbins because of coverage, but overall he exceeded my expectations. Solid performance for a "scap heap type player."
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Old 01-31-2013   #73
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

Barwin re-signing is strictly a matter of price since he had such a poor season last year. I'm not willing to be as final on his evaluation but if he costs anything more than a couple million against the cap in 2013 then I think that might be too much.

Reed moving inside dependent on that situation is an interesting move and I think it makes them tougher to read during FA and the draft. Given an entire offseason to work on switching positions, I think it's a feasible idea with a reasonable enough amount of time to get up to speed.
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Old 01-31-2013   #74
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

I could see Gary going heavy on defense in the draft.

First round, draft a better NT to help out Watt. Or go LB in round 1 and NT in round 2, whatever is better value at those two spots.

This gets us more push up front with the better NT, and gets us another LB who will definitely see action in 2013 (in the 34, LBs rule the day...and we were crushed with injuries there in 2012). Cushing is back, too. The front 7 strengthened as a result. Cody and Mitchell as depth and rotation at NT.

This will make the Secondary better.

Which makes the defense back to its 2011 form....which makes "Gary Ball" better than it was in 2012.

WR/TE in the 3rd and 4th, token QB somewhere in the 5th or beyond. CBs in later rounds. Call it a draft. Then hope you can find some UDFA gold nuggets.
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Old 01-31-2013   #75
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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I could see Gary going heavy on defense in the draft.

First round, draft a better NT to help out Watt. Or go LB in round 1 and NT in round 2, whatever is better value at those two spots.

This gets us more push up front with the better NT, and gets us another LB who will definitely see action in 2013 (in the 34, LBs rule the day...and we were crushed with injuries there in 2012). Cushing is back, too. The front 7 strengthened as a result. Cody and Mitchell as depth and rotation at NT.

This will make the Secondary better.

Which makes the defense back to its 2011 form....which makes "Gary Ball" better than it was in 2012.

WR/TE in the 3rd and 4th, token QB somewhere in the 5th or beyond. CBs in later rounds. Call it a draft. Then hope you can find some UDFA gold nuggets.
The thing with this is, the NT doesn't play that much at all. Those passing situations those guys are usually not on the field. Our nickle and sub packages are mainly Watt and Smith as the linemen and our edge guys. That's it. Among 3-4 teams I looked up our NT's seemed to play the least in comparison. So getting a NT first may not solve as much as we all hope unless someone stops being stubborn and makes some proper adjustments against elite/spread teams.
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Old 01-31-2013   #76
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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The thing with this is, the NT doesn't play that much at all. Those passing situations those guys are usually not on the field. Our nickle and sub packages are mainly Watt and Smith as the linemen and our edge guys. That's it. Among 3-4 teams I looked up our NT's seemed to play the least in comparison. So getting a NT first may not solve as much as we all hope unless someone stops being stubborn and makes some proper adjustments against elite/spread teams.
I admit I don't pay much attention to the various scenarios where we're not utilizing a NT (as you've stated here).

We also had to dump Manning further down into the box to cover for the loss of Cushing, which I think was a bad move. Teams knew we didn't have the horses in the secondary to cover deeper routes, and we got picked on as a result of Manning crowding the line. In 2011, Manning was playing the pass more and occasionally coming on a blitz. I think we were better in 2011 as a result.

My concern with NT is that Cody and Mitchell, IMO, are sort of like Tim Dobbins at LB--The guys are better than average, but not capable of disrupting to the point that it opens other things up on a consistent basis for the other guys on D.

You put a true NT out there, a guy who is somewhat of a JJ Watt'ish type of player in terms of talent and passion and focus, and suddenly WHATEVER you got at LB, CB, and S can become much, much better.

But I see what you're saying, too. If that's how Wade approaches passing downs, and since teams are passing more and more...it might make more sense to stay pat at NT with Cody and Mitchell, go after more LBs as a result.
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Old 01-31-2013   #77
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

Never look past the potential for Wade to try and find that next JJ Watt and let Antonio Smith walk. He's a FA, right?
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Old 01-31-2013   #78
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Never look past the potential for Wade to try and find that next JJ Watt and let Antonio Smith walk. He's a FA, right?
Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.
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Old 01-31-2013   #79
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.
Good post. Thank you for reminding me that he's not a FA but that his salary might make him a cap casualty.

Good stuff in the rest of your post, too. Rep your way!
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Old 01-31-2013   #80
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Default Re: Brooks to move to ILB

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.
Don't forget Tim Jamison. They actually signed him to the extension before he got hurt which made me immediately think Smith was a goner. Course after how the pass rush was essentially only two guys this year it may change their direction. What happens may speak about Smith's ability as a GM. Can he get a restructure or we looking at another 'Dump and go'.

Draft will be interesting. If they do like GP suggested and get a real strong NT maybe that means Wade will adjust his defense (and he freaking needs to) and maybe change his nickle to a 3-3 with Merci/Watt on the edge. I rather that than depend on the OLB's we have now if we retain Barwin.

While we have all been talking Schaub like crazy this defense was freaking atrocious against the Patriots and the Ravens made it look a hell of a lot easier than we did which irritated me to no end.
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