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Old 06-18-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by atxcoolguy
Yeah, and Moreno plays ILB, seems like we're loaded with OLBs. Besides the starting 4, I'd think he's got the best chance to make the team. I think the other front runners to make the team would be Anderson OLB, Polk ILB, Evans ILB, S. Orr ILB/OLB, Chamberlin ILB. Pettway will probably be practice squad until mid season. I'm thinking special teams play will play a big part in selection of these reserve LBs. This will be one of the best positions to watch in training camp for competition.
I can't wait.
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Old 06-18-2005   #22
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I think we might have a linebacker heavy practice squad, meaning more than 1. more than likely 2.

I'm most looking forward in training camp to seeing what Cheatwood and Moreno do... of the new names they are the most intriguing for me.
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Old 06-18-2005   #23
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ourlads scouting rated Pettway very positively, I checked his actual posted 40 time was 4.67 still good when compared to prospects at that position. I thought Jonathan Welsh (Wisconsin) would have been another (5th rd. Indy #148) or Darryl Blackstock out of Virgina who went late 3rd (95th Arizona).

to compare Pettway with the top OLB taken Demarcus Ware is dreaming but both are 6'-4" around 250 lbs with 4.6 speed and both came from small schools (Grambling & Troy State) most importantly both are natural pass rushers, it will be interesting to watch them develop

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Old 06-18-2005   #24
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my opinion of Zeke comes from what ive heard from Charger fans.

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Enjoy Zeke. He is slow, out of position, and a waste of cap space. Camp Foder if you ask me!
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But he is a pretty good tackler

I think he has a shot to make the roster
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Zeke will make an alright backup, but if he's starting you got problems. He gets tackles but he's SLOW.
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Zeke doesnt have alot of fire out on the field.

I saw alot of quotes like that... basicly.. everything ive heard chargers say about him revolves around three facts.

1. hes SLOW SLOW SLOW
2. hes a good tackler
3. he doesnt have alot of fire or drive.


So.. considering that we are upgrading our LBs.. looking for speed.. I dont know how much of a chance moreno has when he lacks fire and drive, and doesnt meet the speed requirements. Maybe if he was slow but gave 110% all the time and played with alot of energy..but that isnt what he does.

He has a chance to make the team as a backup.. but I dont think he is a shoe in.
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Old 06-18-2005   #25
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I think he is just about a lock to make the team. I wouldn't take too much message board banter into your consideration. If you had no clue who was who here you may come away thinking Dom Davis is a horrible RB or that Chester Pitts can't play at all. I'd say a large % who post an opinion on most message boards have questionable takes.
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Old 06-18-2005   #26
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If I had taken that from a chargers message board, I would say you are right. But those quotes are from a general NFL board.. and for the most part you can expect to get at least a couple of informed opinions on a subject from those teams fans. Basicly.. since there are alot of fans from different teams there.. you dont see quite so much whining and finger pointing about specific teams... since no one wants to talk smack about their own team in front of other fans .

Of course, you cant always expect people to give an honest opinion about a player that left their team either... since many fans immediatly think that anyone who leaves their team sucks and always has sucked.


90% of charger fans said Moreno was slow and lacked fire though.. so I would say there is some truth in those comments.

Based solely on the fact that he is slow and lacks fire.. I wonder about his chances to make the team.. considering that that is the complete opposite of what we are going for on our defense.

He is one of the few ILBs that we have though.. so he may make the team simply because of that.
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Old 06-18-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
ourlads scouting rated Pettway very positively, I checked his actual posted 40 time was 4.67 still good when compared to prospects at that position. I thought Jonathan Welsh (Wisconsin) would have been another (5th rd. Indy #148) or Darryl Blackstock out of Virgina who went late 3rd (95th Arizona).

to compare Pettway with the top OLB taken Demarcus Ware is dreaming but both are 6'-4" around 250 lbs with 4.6 speed and both came from small schools (Grambling & Troy State) most importantly both are natural pass rushers, it will be interesting to watch them develop

ware
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Ware looks more bigger than Pettway though. Pettway looks like he's a SS or something.
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Old 06-18-2005   #28
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Ware looks more bigger than Pettway though. Pettway looks like he's a SS or something.
Pettway is a Big O' Boy @ 6'-4" 255lbs. If I remember correctly Ware was same height but 10 lbss. heavier.
He may look like a SS in the picture to you but trust me, when you see in pre-season you'll be surprised @ big he actually looks.
Each year I pick a late round selection to relly keep my eyes on and I beleive it'll be him this year.
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Old 06-18-2005   #29
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Originally Posted by Grid
90% of charger fans said Moreno was slow and lacked fire though.. so I would say there is some truth in those comments.
I'd say 90% of the fans around the NFL thought Foley couldn't play when we released him too. So much for opinions based on third parties. Far too many of us form opinions from strangers when it comes to football players and we just make broad assumptions and have our mind made up about players when all we really need to do is watch him in camp and in preseason before we judge him. He isn't going to start, but he is not going to be any slower to the ball than Foreman was last year.
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Old 06-18-2005   #30
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well if we waited till training camp to form all our opinons.. then we might as well shut down this board till it starts .

if im wrong, ill be the first one to admit it... in the meantime.. im gonna remain under the assumption that he is slow and lacks fire.. unless he proves otherwise.

Your right that he couldnt be much slower than Foreman.. if we get another foreman out of him, ill be happy to have him as our backup.
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Old 06-18-2005   #31
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Perhaps it's just me, but I guess I'm saying that it is not real astute thinking to form an opinion on anything but your own eyes. It's great to see what others think, but it sure is flawed to form an actual opinion on something you have never seen. Relaying an opinion of others is one thing...but to acutally have your mind made up about a guy when you haven't seen him play is another thing. I think that really just boils down to this....how can people trust your opinion when it is not yours?
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Old 06-18-2005   #32
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I understand what you are saying.. and I guess all I can really say is that my opinion is not rock solid unless I have seen it for my own eyes.

But that doesnt stop me from giving an opinion based on what ive read and heard from other people. You cannot debate in the offseason if you base everything off of what you have seen with your own eyes.

Im not saying that Moreno wont make the team.. all im saying is that based on what ive heard.. im not 100% sure he will make the team.

Its really not any different from you saying that you think he is a lock to make the team. You are basing that off of what? possibly what you have seen of him when he played for the chargers? maybe off of his stats when started for them. I dont know.. but I DO know that you arent basing it off of what you have seen of him in practice with the Texans.. and that is the only way that you could have formed a solid opinion of him.

SO.. how can people trust my opinion when its not mine? Well.. what exactly do I have to do to make it mine? If I have enough trustworthy sources that all tell me the same thing.. isnt that enough to form an opinion? If your mother, father, sister, brother, daughter, son, uncle, grandmother, 3rd grade teacher, and the President all tell you that the sky is blue.. couldnt you then turn to someone and confidently say that the sky is blue, even though you havent seen it for yourself? It all comes down to the preponderance of evidence.. if enough people say the same thing.. it can be reasonably assumed that it is true.. or most likely true.

so really.. it isnt a question of "can you trust my opinion when it is not mine" its more a question of "do you trust me enough to form a valid opinion, and not base it off too little evidence"


but what it REALLY all boils down to is... "what the heck are we gonna do in the offseason if we dont form opinions based solely on what other people have said?" cause I know most all of us dont have the luxury of hanging out with the Texans and their front office.
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Old 06-18-2005   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
SO.. how can people trust my opinion when its not mine? Well.. what exactly do I have to do to make it mine? If I have enough trustworthy sources that all tell me the same thing.. isnt that enough to form an opinion? If your mother, father, sister, brother, daughter, son, uncle, grandmother, 3rd grade teacher, and the President all tell you that the sky is blue.. couldnt you then turn to someone and confidently say that the sky is blue, even though you havent seen it for yourself?
That is where we differ. I gather information from 3rd parties but I try to not to form opinions about players I haven't seen since I don't think most people really know what they are looking at and want my opinions to be derived from my own eyes and my own heart. I've fallen into assuming things in the past but I don't honestly don't trust the takes of too many others unless I have studied their opinions over time. In my eyes, when you take and form your opinion from another source without it really being yours...well, it isn't an opinion of yours - it's someone else's.

btw, The sky is blue. That is something that isn't an opinion. I'd consider that a fact. Opinions are things that are subjective and should not be confused with facts.
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Old 06-18-2005   #34
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What was this topic again.
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Old 06-18-2005   #35
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I think we have gone from 'Pettway has signed' to trying to figure out what an honest opinion is, and what is a re-statement of someone's else’s comments....but there really isn't much to say about Pettway's signing, so I guess we can split this out if we continue to go too far off the bubble.
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Old 06-18-2005   #36
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Quote:
btw, The sky is blue. That is something that isn't an opinion. I'd consider that a fact. Opinions are things that are subjective and should not be confused with facts.
Well I was using that as an example of how the amount of people saying the same thing can be used to come to a conclusion about something... if you want something more fitting.. change "the sky is blue" to "Moreno is slow".

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In my eyes, when you take and form your opinion from another source without it really being yours...well, it isn't an opinion of yours - it's someone else's.
I see it as my opinion as soon as I come to the conclusion that I beleive it, and then voice it.

I think its important to mention just what an opinion is.

"A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof"

that is the definition of an opinion... so.. really.. an opinion is not necessarily something that is grounded in fact, but is in the eye of the beholder. An opinion is not good or bad.. its just an opinion... and can be countered by other opinions. So really.. why are we discussing the validity of an opinion when there is really not even any facts involved with the forming of one?
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Old 06-18-2005   #37
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lol.. sorry.. i just thought it was an interesting conversation .. i can stop hijacking
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Old 06-20-2005   #38
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Ware looks more bigger than Pettway though. Pettway looks like he's a SS or something.
I'll take back what I've said about Pettway after looking at that picture of him on the Texans front page. He looks like he has the physical tools to compete on this level. He could be a sleeper 7th round pick like how Colby Buckwoldt is for the Saints.
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Old 06-20-2005   #39
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Yeah, not too many 6-3 240 guys playing Safety out there.
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Old 06-20-2005   #40
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He was also signed to a 3 year deal. Most 7th round guys get the 1 year deal or don't even get signed. We must really like this guy.
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