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Old 01-22-2013   #21
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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Originally Posted by SW H-TOWN View Post
I like your 3rd (both) and 4th round picks a lot. I just don't think that the Texans will wait until the last round to draft an ILB. Also, I don't see Geathers as being a fit for our system. Like the Denard Robinson pick, he gets vertical so quick.
My thinking is that Wade Phillips is a successful DC. He is successful because he can use the players he has in order to create a good system. He has used big NTs before to success(Buffalo and SD). If Phillips is a smart DC, and I think he is, he would find a way to incorporate a player with the skill of Geathers into the team.

I think Cush comes back healthy next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Texans get a cheap FA ILB to play with him. This gives Mauti all the time he needs to heal and be ready to go.
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Old 01-22-2013   #22
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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This is what makes me leary about Barrett Jones.

I don't know how he could have played on a lisfranc. He's going to get a very long look in the combine examination room.

I also think the Bruce Matthews comparison is a little overblown. Yes, Jones is versatile, like Matthews. But, Bruce was one of the more athletic linemen to play the game. Jones isn't in that league as an athlete.

Just a note to fellow posters: It is unnecessary to quote an entire post. Especially one as long as Doppelganger's OP. It makes these threads much more difficult to read. Just quote what is relative to what you want to discuss.
Jones played really well in the NCG. Saban is being hyperbolic, but Jones is very good. No, not Matthews good, but very versatile. If he played at a solid to high level for a decade, I'd take that with the #27 pick.

I would be stunned if he played on a Lisfranc, though. I mean he played REALLY well. I was operating under the assumption that it was a sprain not torn ligaments. Hmm. If it is true he played on a Lisfranc, that may take away some agility and force him more into a Center/Guard role as opposed to all 5 positions. That would certainly make me rethink my choice.

Hmm...
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Old 01-22-2013   #23
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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This is what makes me leary about Barrett Jones.

I don't know how he could have played on a lisfranc. He's going to get a very long look in the combine examination room.

I also think the Bruce Matthews comparison is a little overblown. Yes, Jones is versatile, like Matthews. But, Bruce was one of the more athletic linemen to play the game. Jones isn't in that league as an athlete.

Just a note to fellow posters: It is unnecessary to quote an entire post. Especially one as long as Doppelganger's OP. It makes these threads much more difficult to read. Just quote what is relative to what you want to discuss.
More than a little overblown. Bruce Matthews had ballerina feet at 300 lbs. Toradol (pain killer) use has been linked to plantar fasciitis...I wonder if it has any connection to lisfranc injuries.
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Old 01-22-2013   #24
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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Hello all. Thanks for reading. This is Doppelmock: Version 4.0. In addition to adding a mock, I also identified some potentially interesting UDFA targets. I expect some of these picks will be somewhat controversial, so let me have it!

1. Barrett Jones, OL, Alabama, 6'5, 311lbs, 5.10
I listed Jones as OL because he can play all 5 spots. In 2009 he started 14 games as a Guard. As a guard he was a big reason for Mark Ingram winning the Heisman. In 2010, Jones stayed at OG and became an All-SEC selection. In 2011, he was moved to LT and did an excellent job in pass protection and run blocking. In 2012, he was moved to Center and once again, Jones delivered. He dominated 1st round DT Sheldon Richardson and 350lb NT Kwame Geathers. I think Jones could play anywhere on the line. At the moment, only 2 spots are definitely taken: LT and C. Jones could be an upgrade at any of the three spots. Based on what I have seen, in the short term, I would start him at RT as I think he is better than Newton. As the needs of the OL change, he can be moved around in order to give the team the best possible 5 OL. Nic Saban favorably compared Jones to Bruce Matthews. Very high respect there. If he is there at #27, I'd take him.

2. Robert Woods, WR, University of Southern California, 6'1, 180lbs, 4.40
Its amazing what can happen in a year. A year ago people were talking about Woods as a potential top 10 player. Now he has fallen to maybe the #10 Wr. Previously, Texan fans were wondering if they should trade up in the 2013 draft to get him. Fast forward a year and now he has dropped all the way to the second round. His loss is the Texans gain. Despite a nagging ankle injury, He will be ready to go once camp arrives. Woods' game is that of explosion and getting behind DBs. As a result he struggled due to his ankle injury. However, a fully healed Woods would be explosive. He has great hands, runs good routes, and is a threat to score anytime he gets the ball. He would start immediately as a #2 receiver opposite AJ. He has the talent to be a legit #1 receiver down the line.

3. Trevardo WIlliams, OLB, Connecticut, 6'2, 233lbs, 4.68
Under the radar potentially sleeper OLB prospect. He had very nice numbers in 2012: He had 42 tackles, 13.5 tackles for a loss, 11.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble. In 2011 he had 12.5 sacks, 15 tackles for a loss, 43 tackles and 2 forced fumbles. He has gotten better every year. and would be a great addition to the Phillips OLB group.

3. Isaiah Johnson, S, Georgia Tech, 6'2, 208, 4.57
Georgia Tech stinks, but Johnson is awesome. In 2012 he had 87 tackles, 1 sack, 1 interception and 4.5 tackles for a loss. In 2011 he has 78 tackles, three interceptions, three tackles for a loss, one sack and three passes broken up. In 2010 he had 46 tackles and three tackles for a loss, one interception, one forced fumble and one sack. Keep in mind his 2010 numbers were that of a true freshman. He has good size, speed, tackling ability, and reasonably good hands. In the Texans Defense, he could start out as a monster special teams player and provide ridiculously good depth/future starter capability.

4.Matt Scott, QB, Arizona, 6'3, 196lbs, 4.77
I know this is not the QB a lot of people want. However, let's face facts, Schaub is coming back next year. I say before you take a potential franchise QB, build the OL and give him a weapon. So, is Scott a franchise QB? probably not. But I think he has more ability than Yates or Keenum. He is a good sized QB, who could put on some weight. He was a resonbly good passer in 2012 and a passer completion of 60%. He threw for 3,620 yards with a 27/14 TD/INT ratio. He also ran for 632 yards and 6 touchdowns. The ability to move is important to the Kubioffense. More importantly a mobile QB may be able to avoid sacks. Finally, having running ability brings a whole new wrinkle to the playaction. A fake handoff could now also mean the QB running in the opposite way for a nice chunk of yards. He played as Foles' backup last year and has a lot of potential as a plus backup. I think he is better short and longterm than TJ Yates or Case Keenum and would make a fine backup. In the 2014 draft, the Texans can go after their next starter.

5 Ryan Allen, P, Louisiana Tech, 6'2, 215lbs.
In the biggest game of the season, Jones shanked an important punt. I have seen a few of them like that this season. Allen won't shank important punts and can change field position. He has averaged 48 yards per punt. Last year he averaged 46.12. Here is the reason I take him: he won the 2011 Ray Guy award the last two years. He has beaten out really good punters like Bryan Anger, Brad Wing, Quin Sharp, Brian Stahovich, Kyle Martens, and Drew Butler. Allen can boom kickoffs too. Allen led the nation with 39 punts downed inside the 20 and 22 punts downed inside the 10. How many has Jones put inside the 20? 28 in 16 games. Allen put 39 punts inside the 20 in fewer games. Jones also averaged almost 5 yards per punt less than Allen. Oh, and Allen's longest punt of the year:72 yards.

5.Kwame Geathers, NT, Georgia, 6'6, 350lbs
I am not sure why Geathers opted for the draft. With Jenkins gone he would be the starting NT for sure. Well, his loss is the Texans gain. Geathers is a big solid, hard to move NT. He has some athleticism and is not just a big tub of goo. He had 37 tackles, five tackles for a loss, a sack and a blocked kick in 2012. He was the team's defensive Spring MVP. Considering the players on that defense, its quite an accomplishment. He will likely play on First and second down where teams are more apt to try to run the ball. They will soon be in 3rd and long if they try to run against this behemouth!

6. Braden Wilson, FB, Kansas State, 6'4, 254lbs, 4.81
Old School. Wilson is an old school type of FB. A very strong lead blocker, He would instantly improve the run game. He also has some decent hands, though K State rarely threw the ball to him. He had five receptions for 34 yards in 2012 and has 17 receptions for 135 yards total in his career. He can work on this as he is creating holes for the RBs. This move allows Casey to move towards a TE spot to better take advantage of his skills.

7.Michael Mauti, ILB, Penn State, 6'2, 239lbs, 4.70.
97 tackles, four tackles for a loss, 2.5 sacks, three interceptions and three forced fumbles were Mauti's stat line for 2012. He was well on his way to a 2nd or 3rd round grade. Unfortunately he injured his knee. He also tore his right ACL in 2009 and his left ACL in 2011. Yes, he is a gamble, but its the 7th round. If he can stay healthy, you get 2/3 round talent in the 7th. If he doesn't pan out, its only a 7th rounder. No problem!

7. Montori Hughes, NT, Tennessee-Martin, 6'4, 327lbs, 5.35
I know that he had some off the field issues/academic issues and was kicked off the Tennessee squad. But, he also has a mean streak and has a lot of athletic ability. In 2012 he had 42 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, 4 sacks and 1 pass broken up. In 2011 at Tennessee he had 28 tackles, 6.5 tackles for a loss, 1 sack, and one forced/recovered fumble. In 2010 he had 17 tackles with 3.5 tackles for a loss and 1 forced fumble. He has certainly gotten better every year. He is a massive NT with good athletic ability. He is not ready to play in the NFL, but with good coaching, and a good organization, he would be a great project. I think he could become a great rotational player. Imagine a rotation of Geathers and Hughes!

1. Jones - Love it, love it, love it. Great pick. Short of moving up to 1st or 2nd pick and going for Luke Joeckel there is little better value for position in draft like Jones. He's versatile like you said, and I remember seeing somewhere that the guy was a 4.0 GPA accounting major. What does that have to do with football? He's smart, and intelligence is a powerful tool for an OLineman.

2. Woods - like this one, but also have a small issue. We may have a potential #2 in Posey... but the injury has thrown everything up in the air, and Woods is a good player and a good choice in round two. However... there may be better options available in the second. If Justin Hunter, Robert Woods, Da'Rick Rogers, and Quinton Patton are all available in the late second, Woods may not be the best choice.

3a. In the third round, there might not be anyone much better than Williams. The exception being Jelani Jenkins, but Jenkins has an injury history that might keep the FO away. Good third round pick. Stats are nice and he's a DE at Conn, but has a 3-4 LB size. I think if he makes the transition he can even push Brooks Reed to the inside and our lb corps would look something like Mercilus, Cushing, Reed, and Williams. Not a bad group at all, if it pans out.

3b. I can't find anything saying he declared. His stats look nice, but I prefer Baccari Rambo or Robert Lester in the 3rd.

I know nothing about any of the others except Michael Mauti, and if Mauti is there in the 7th you absolutely pull the trigger. You give up little to get someone who may give a whole hell of a lot back.

EDIT: I know nothing of your other draft choices, haven't seen any film of any of them. I do know some of the UDFAs, namely Brooks Reed's brother and Denard Robinson.
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Old 01-22-2013   #25
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

Denard Robinson undrafted? Not gonna happen. Someone is going to take a chance on him after he burns his 40 at the combine.
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Old 01-22-2013   #26
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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Denard Robinson undrafted? Not gonna happen. Someone is going to take a chance on him after he burns his 40 at the combine.
Yep.

I wouldn't be shocked if someone grabbed him in the third or fourth round.
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Old 01-22-2013   #27
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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Yep.

I wouldn't be shocked if someone grabbed him in the third or fourth round.
Well he's playing WR at the senior bowl so his stock will probably drop. He's never played WR before and is going to have to learn everything (not gonna happen in 1 week). The only route he's run before is a flare route out of the backfield. He also fielded punts for the first time in his life the first day of practice and muffed 4 out of 8 attempts I believe. If he was playing RB (which is his optimum position) I would expect his stock to rise, but he's not. Probably a 4th-5th round prospect.

He's going to go to the combine and measure in at the same size as Jamaal Charles and run almost as fast. I still don't understand how people watch his film and see a WR.
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Old 01-22-2013   #28
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Well he's playing WR at the senior bowl so his stock will probably drop. He's never played WR before and is going to have to learn everything (not gonna happen in 1 week).
I understand that, but when teams see a physical specimen that can create with the ball in his hands I think some team might jump on him in the third or fourth...especially if it's a team picking at the end of the round...

I understand moving him to wr as well. You normally see athletic qb's go to wr or a wr go to qb because presumably they would have some understanding of how both positions operate. Also, it's a different type of pounding being a rb. Then you also have blocking come into play. Most guys that have played qb or wr and are used to operating in space just aren't going to want to or be able to run between the tackles or pick up blitzing lb's on a consistent basis in the NFL.
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Old 01-23-2013   #29
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

Wanted jones to come out bad last year. Just worried about his injury history.
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Old 01-23-2013   #30
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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Denard Robinson undrafted? Not gonna happen. Someone is going to take a chance on him after he burns his 40 at the combine.
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Yep.

I wouldn't be shocked if someone grabbed him in the third or fourth round.
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Well he's playing WR at the senior bowl so his stock will probably drop. He's never played WR before and is going to have to learn everything (not gonna happen in 1 week). The only route he's run before is a flare route out of the backfield. He also fielded punts for the first time in his life the first day of practice and muffed 4 out of 8 attempts I believe. If he was playing RB (which is his optimum position) I would expect his stock to rise, but he's not. Probably a 4th-5th round prospect.

He's going to go to the combine and measure in at the same size as Jamaal Charles and run almost as fast. I still don't understand how people watch his film and see a WR.

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I understand that, but when teams see a physical specimen that can create with the ball in his hands I think some team might jump on him in the third or fourth...especially if it's a team picking at the end of the round...

I understand moving him to wr as well. You normally see athletic qb's go to wr or a wr go to qb because presumably they would have some understanding of how both positions operate. Also, it's a different type of pounding being a rb. Then you also have blocking come into play. Most guys that have played qb or wr and are used to operating in space just aren't going to want to or be able to run between the tackles or pick up blitzing lb's on a consistent basis in the NFL.
He has good speed, but 3rd or 4th round? I don't know about that one. Without an ability to play QB he has an undefined position. One problem he will face is that very few ATH QBs, end up becoming quality NFL players.

1. Remember Reggie McNeal? He was the QB of Texas A&M. He was 6'2, 190lbs and also was deemed to have to switch positions. He ran a 4.35 40 and was drafted in the 6th round. McNeal also played DB in highschool as well as QB. As a DB he had experience running down the field and having the ball thrown in his direction. Despite that he barely made a ripple in the NFL and is now in Canada.

2. Remember Marcus Vick? He was the QB of VA Tech, like his brother Michael. He was 6'0, 216lbs and had a 4.47 40 time. He went undrafted. He signeed for the Dolphins as an UFA and mostly spent time on the PS. He got into one game and never made a catch.

3. Remember Pat White? He was the QB of West Virginia. He was drafted by Miami in the 2nd round. He was 6'0, 190lbs and had a 4.55 40 time. The Dolphins had plans of using him as a Wildcat player. Fast forward a year and he was cut from the team.

4. Of course, I won't mention Matt Jones...

The fact is moving a guy from QB to WR really does not work too well unless he has had experience at the position. As such, teams that have invested high picks (Jones in the first and Pat White in the second) have had it badly blow up in their faces.

Denard has never played anywhere but as a QB. As we have seen in the practice of the senior bowl he is struggling to learn his new positions. He is dropping makable catches as a WR, fumbling punts on punt returns, and is not making blocks. He may get drafted, but he will have to show more than just speed at the Senior Bowl, combine, and his proday. If he produces more of the same, its a good chance he goes undrafted.
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Old 01-23-2013   #31
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He has good speed, but 3rd or 4th round? I don't know about that one. Without an ability to play QB he has an undefined position. One problem he will face is that very few ATH QBs, end up becoming quality NFL players.

1. Remember Reggie McNeal? He was the QB of Texas A&M. He was 6'2, 190lbs and also was deemed to have to switch positions. He ran a 4.35 40 and was drafted in the 6th round. McNeal also played DB in highschool as well as QB. As a DB he had experience running down the field and having the ball thrown in his direction. Despite that he barely made a ripple in the NFL and is now in Canada.

2. Remember Marcus Vick? He was the QB of VA Tech, like his brother Michael. He was 6'0, 216lbs and had a 4.47 40 time. He went undrafted. He signeed for the Dolphins as an UFA and mostly spent time on the PS. He got into one game and never made a catch.

3. Remember Pat White? He was the QB of West Virginia. He was drafted by Miami in the 2nd round. He was 6'0, 190lbs and had a 4.55 40 time. The Dolphins had plans of using him as a Wildcat player. Fast forward a year and he was cut from the team.

4. Of course, I won't mention Matt Jones...

The fact is moving a guy from QB to WR really does not work too well unless he has had experience at the position. As such, teams that have invested high picks (Jones in the first and Pat White in the second) have had it badly blow up in their faces.

Denard has never played anywhere but as a QB. As we have seen in the practice of the senior bowl he is struggling to learn his new positions. He is dropping makable catches as a WR, fumbling punts on punt returns, and is not making blocks. He may get drafted, but he will have to show more than just speed at the Senior Bowl, combine, and his proday. If he produces more of the same, its a good chance he goes undrafted.
I don't know whether or not he'll be successful.

My point was that guys like that are taken fairly early in drafts. You even named a couple. Another guy is Eric crouch. I'm sure there have been other taken in the 3rd or 4th round or earlier like that.

And Hines ward did ok as a convert...randel el was good for a few years...edleman has been pretty good for NE...i think seattle's starting fb was a qb in college...

I have no idea if it'll work and really that's not relevant and wasnt my point. My point is that all it takes is one team to think they can make a weapon out of him. Reggie McNeal and Marcus Vick were pot heads. They had some blemishes which may have caused them to drop. I know Reggie McNeal smoked because I f'n smoked with him before.

Robinson seems like a relatively trouble free kid. People know he's raw. If he goes out there at the combine and shows even marginal improvement and on top of that bust out a ridiculous 40 time and puts up other good numbers in agility and explosiveness, I would not be shocked at all if some team picked him up in the 3rd or 4th.
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Old 01-23-2013   #32
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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Denard has never played anywhere but as a QB.
He played RB against South Carolina and was 1 of only 2 players to run for 100 yds against them this year. The other being LSU RB Jeremy Hill.

Of course he's dropping passes and muffing punts. He's literally never done it before in his life. This is the first time he's ever played WR.

I've been saying it for months the guy is a RB at the next level. Not a feature back. But I would use him like Sproles or McCluster.
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Old 01-23-2013   #33
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

So I keep reading all these mocks from the local draftniks and one trend is blatantly obvious in all of them. No one is mocking a quarterback to the texans. Why is that? No one feels it's a need? No one is happy with the pool of quarterbacks? What am I missing?
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Old 01-23-2013   #34
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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So I keep reading all these mocks from the local draftniks and one trend is blatantly obvious in all of them. No one is mocking a quarterback to the texans. Why is that? No one feels it's a need? No one is happy with the pool of quarterbacks? What am I missing?
No one want to admit the emperor has no clothes.
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Old 01-23-2013   #35
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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So I keep reading all these mocks from the local draftniks and one trend is blatantly obvious in all of them. No one is mocking a quarterback to the texans. Why is that? No one feels it's a need? No one is happy with the pool of quarterbacks? What am I missing?
Can't speak for the other guys but when I did my mock its based on what I think the Texans will do. I just can't see us going QB in the first 3 rounds. I would love for us to draft Zac Dysert but just don't see Kubiak dissing his main man Schaub.
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Old 01-23-2013   #36
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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No one wants to admit the emperor has no clothes.
You sir, have confirmed what I feared. The road to recovery only begins when we admit there's a problem. The emperor is butt naked. Accept it. In protest I will be making my own mock. Rest assured, it will involve at least one quarterback and some combination of tight ends and former tight ends.

I know this isn't the place for a schaub debate, but it is the place for a debate on team needs. Quarterback fits a need this team has now ,because there IS an iceberg up ahead. I've seen enough bad qb play in my time to recognize it readily. I also understand schaub is on the wrong side of his career and he wont be getting better...
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Old 01-24-2013   #37
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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I just can't see us going QB in the first 3 rounds. I would love for us to draft Zac Dysert but just don't see Kubiak dissing his main man Schaub.
Then why bother mocking it at all or hoping the Texans act in such a fashion? Kap and Wilson have everyone hot and bothered but they are 2nd and 3rd round picks. We already have a lower round pick who is familiar with the system. Taking a QB anywhere below the 3rd at this point is just flushing a pick.
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Old 01-24-2013   #38
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

IMO, the position that hurt us the worst on defense is ILB. We'll get Cush back, thank goodness, but I don't see us waiting until the 7th round to pick one. Bradie James, Ruud, Dobbins and Sharpton are not the answer. Personally, I'd go ILB within the first two rounds.
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Old 01-24-2013   #39
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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Then why bother mocking it at all or hoping the Texans act in such a fashion? Kap and Wilson have everyone hot and bothered but they are 2nd and 3rd round picks. We already have a lower round pick who is familiar with the system. Taking a QB anywhere below the 3rd at this point is just flushing a pick.
This is why I mocked Tyler Bray to the Texans with 1st rd. pick. It sure feels like the position is evolving into a more athletic one which encompasses size, strength, foot speed, quickness & overall mobility to extend plays. Still a player can overcome a lot with a rocket arm, leadership, field vision & game management. Intangibles are what intrigue me. Being a leader of men, a gravitating force both on & off the field along with ability to handle any situation with composure, like nothings too big for him. Mechanics can always be improved, shorten stroke, footwork, hand placement, launch angle stuff like that. When I watch Colin Kapernick he has the total package, height/weight ratio, speed (4.53) rocket arm, but do you ever see Kubiak use the pistol? Whatever he runs the QB needs to possess ability to extend plays. Kapernick was a 2nd rd. pick so there is no reason why Texans cannot find a good one in the first two rounds if so inclined. So your point is well taken, one that I hope not just Kubiak & Rick Smith heed but McNair as well this love affair with entrenched starter has lacked a viable succession plan since expansion.

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Old 01-24-2013   #40
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 4.0

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So I keep reading all these mocks from the local draftniks and one trend is blatantly obvious in all of them. No one is mocking a quarterback to the texans. Why is that? No one feels it's a need? No one is happy with the pool of quarterbacks? What am I missing?
I did, in the 4th round.

If you are asking why not a first round QB, the answer would be, I think the Texans have bigger needs than a QB at this point. RT is a bigger concern to me than QB. NT is a bigger concern to me than QB. Athletic #2 receiver is a more important issue than QB to me. Fix the OL and get another dynamic receiver. I would even trade a 3rd this year for a 2nd next year and a 5th and 6th this year for a 4th next year.

Then next year armed with the extra picks, it would be possible to move up and get the guy you want.
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