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Old 01-18-2013   #81
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!

Classic Vinnyism, man!
No lie. Repped.
(Vinny, I mean)

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.
And before that there was Randall Cunningham... and after that Kordell "Slash" Stewart... One could possibly put Steve McNair in that group; while he wasn't as elusive as Cunningham or Slash, he could run effectively when needed.[/quote]

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.

Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.

The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.

However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.

The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.

I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.
So you're saying to have any longevity, the guys making plays with their legs today, must eventually (the sooner the better) evolve into QBs that make plays with their minds and arms?

I'm with you on that point.

Unfortunately, we have one that has limited (and diminishing) running proficiency and now his arm proficiency is being called into question.

So do we outright replace him NOW, or wait until his mind starts to write checks his body can't cash.
(yeah, I know, some of y'all think he's at that point right now...)
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Old 01-18-2013   #82
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

Just asking, how bad do you think it will have to get before there is a QB change in Houston?
  • Not at all
    Do you think the Texans' thinktank will decide the time for a new QB is now? Is the window opening? Is the window closing? How would the window be affected if we made a change? How would the window be affected if there was no change?
  • 1 game under .500
    Is Matt on a really short leash? Does the F.O. have any confidence in Matt Schaub?
  • 2 games out of .500
    More of the same, no confidence, longer leash?
  • 3 games behind the division leader
    Now it's real? The division is on the line. It's not all Matt's fault, but he has the biggest impact on the team. Changing this one position, has the potential to radically improve your team.
  • risk of a losing season
    The F.O. still believes Matt gives us the best chance to win. It will take a natural disaster to unseat Schaub.

How likely do you think that is to happen?
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Old 01-18-2013   #83
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Just asking, how bad do you think it will have to get before there is a QB change in Houston?
  • Not at all
    Do you think the Texans' thinktank will decide the time for a new QB is now? Is the window opening? Is the window closing? How would the window be affected if we made a change? How would the window be affected if there was no change?
  • 1 game under .500
    Is Matt on a really short leash? Does the F.O. have any confidence in Matt Schaub?
  • 2 games out of .500
    More of the same, no confidence, longer leash?
  • 3 games behind the division leader
    Now it's real? The division is on the line. It's not all Matt's fault, but he has the biggest impact on the team. Changing this one position, has the potential to radically improve your team.
  • risk of a losing season
    The F.O. still believes Matt gives us the best chance to win. It will take a natural disaster to unseat Schaub.

How likely do you think that is to happen?
Kubiak and Schaub .

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Old 01-18-2013   #84
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Just asking, how bad do you think it will have to get before there is a QB change in Houston?
  • Not at all
    Do you think the Texans' thinktank will decide the time for a new QB is now? Is the window opening? Is the window closing? How would the window be affected if we made a change? How would the window be affected if there was no change?
  • 1 game under .500
    Is Matt on a really short leash? Does the F.O. have any confidence in Matt Schaub?
  • 2 games out of .500
    More of the same, no confidence, longer leash?
  • 3 games behind the division leader
    Now it's real? The division is on the line. It's not all Matt's fault, but he has the biggest impact on the team. Changing this one position, has the potential to radically improve your team.
  • risk of a losing season
    The F.O. still believes Matt gives us the best chance to win. It will take a natural disaster to unseat Schaub.
How likely do you think that is to happen?
Kubiak may be welded to Schaub but welds can be cut.

If it looks like the division championship/playoff appearance is at risk - and the screw ups can be traced to Schaub's substandard performance - then Kubiak changes horses. Meaning if Foster is running well and the defense is keeping the opposition scores within reason - 17-24 points/game then I think it's on Schaub to get the ball to the playmakers. They look at the game film every Monday. If week after week the film study shows Schaub is leaving points on the field, then Kubiak will make a change. He won't lose his job because Matt can't cut the mustard.

Remember what he said right after that "we believe in Schaub" statement? The very next sentence was "...but we're going to continue to push him to get better." He tried to dress it up by saying, "we're going to push everyone to get better." But that tells me he was not happy with Schaub's performance. That whole, "we believe..." schick is Kubiak refusing to throw Schaub under the bus. But, IMHO, he was no happier with Schaub's Dec/Jan performance than we were.
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Old 01-18-2013   #85
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
That whole, "we believe..." schick is Kubiak refusing to throw Schaub under the bus.
It's also about arse covering, after handing out that monster extension.
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Old 01-18-2013   #86
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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It's also about arse covering, after handing out that monster extension.
yeah...
...well that too.
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Old 01-18-2013   #87
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

Nobody needs to toss names like Cunningham, Stewart, and McNair into this situation of today's "more mobile" QBs.

CHANGES IN RULES.

The rules now are wayyyyy different than in the days of those "more mobile" QBs. Back then, they got hammered every time no matter what. There was no penalty for hitting them at the knees or below. There was no penalty for helmet-to-helmet contact on a QB. Etc., etc.

Today, the mobile QB can benefit from a defense being too scared to draw a penalty (and a fine).

Now is the time to push the mobile QBs. Two teams decided to do so already.
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Old 01-18-2013   #88
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Kubiak may be welded to Schaub but welds can be cut.

If it looks like the division championship/playoff appearance is at risk - and the screw ups can be traced to Schaub's substandard performance - then Kubiak changes horses. Meaning if Foster is running well and the defense is keeping the opposition scores within reason - 17-24 points/game then I think it's on Schaub to get the ball to the playmakers. They look at the game film every Monday. If week after week the film study shows Schaub is leaving points on the field, then Kubiak will make a change. He won't lose his job because Matt can't cut the mustard.

Remember what he said right after that "we believe in Schaub" statement? The very next sentence was "...but we're going to continue to push him to get better." He tried to dress it up by saying, "we're going to push everyone to get better." But that tells me he was not happy with Schaub's performance. That whole, "we believe..." schick is Kubiak refusing to throw Schaub under the bus. But, IMHO, he was no happier with Schaub's Dec/Jan performance than we were.
i disagree. kubiak is going down with his ship named schaub.
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Old 01-18-2013   #89
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
It's also about arse covering, after handing out that monster extension.
I would think covering his butt would mean win more games. Putting $60M in front of Schaub is more Smith's mistake than Kubiak's, even if Kubiak told him to do it. Kubiak get's paid to win games.
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Old 01-18-2013   #90
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
how do most nfl franchises get superstar hall of fame level franchise qbs?


Answer: high end draft picks.


Why is this so hard to figure out for Gary Kubiak and Texan front office personnel?
I don't think it's that it's hard for them to figure out.

You have to think about feasibility. You don't just get to turn deals and move up in drafts whenever you feel like it.
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Old 01-18-2013   #91
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Nobody needs to toss names like Cunningham, Stewart, and McNair into this situation of today's "more mobile" QBs.

CHANGES IN RULES.

The rules now are wayyyyy different than in the days of those "more mobile" QBs. Back then, they got hammered every time no matter what. There was no penalty for hitting them at the knees or below. There was no penalty for helmet-to-helmet contact on a QB. Etc., etc.

Today, the mobile QB can benefit from a defense being too scared to draw a penalty (and a fine).

Now is the time to push the mobile QBs. Two teams decided to do so already.
Please learn the rules. Hitting at or below the knees and helmet to helmet have nothing whatsoever to do with mobile QBs. Those are essentially in the pocket rules. Once they turn into a runner you can do either one.
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Old 01-18-2013   #92
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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I wish we could pick up Vick.
High risk, high reward......but I'd love to see it. However, we have a boring, delusional owner/GM/Coach.


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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
So is Vince Young.

Who?
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Old 01-19-2013   #93
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Zac dysert please!
Man I want us to draft him bad!
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Old 01-19-2013   #94
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Man I want us to draft him bad!
At the 3:12 mark, he throws from his own goal line...and places the ball into the hands of his receiver, in stride, and it hit the receiver's hands at the FIFTY.

50-yard bomb, in stride, with touch on the pass. And he just flicked his arm, he wasn't even planting and heaving it. It was amazing.

VIDEO LINK HERE. 3:12 mark of the clip.
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Old 01-19-2013   #95
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Please learn the rules. Hitting at or below the knees and helmet to helmet have nothing whatsoever to do with mobile QBs. Those are essentially in the pocket rules. Once they turn into a runner you can do either one.
Yeah, mobile QB's can get abused in this league. It's why defenses can hit Michael Vick differently than they can non-mobile QB's. Once you get out of the pocket and scramble you basically become a RB.
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Old 01-19-2013   #96
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

Cutler ran right up the LOS before passing the ball, prompting Dobbins to come flying in, in an attempt to stop Cutler from possibly rushing with the ball.

Now take a truly MOBILE QB in that same situation...you lay off that guy, as he's racing to the LOS...and you don't know if he's going to pass or pull the ball down and run with it.

So you have to pretty much give that QB a free play in that situation. You hit him below the knees or in the head, if he indeed throws the ball instead of running with it...and you're tacking on 15 to that play.

Yeah, like I said before: The rules have been changed and it gives an advantage to a QB who can escape the pocket and maneuver near or at the LOS. He can basically freeze a defensive player in his tracks because of the potential for a penalty.
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Old 01-19-2013   #97
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Cutler ran right up the LOS before passing the ball, prompting Dobbins to come flying in, in an attempt to stop Cutler from possibly rushing with the ball.
No Cutler ran past the LOS which is why there were off-setting penalties. He was in the act of passing which made him a defenseless player. If he had tucked the ball, i.e. attempted to be a rusher, Dobbins could have laid him out without a penalty or fine.
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Old 01-19-2013   #98
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

i just thought of this and had to post it somewhere .

A QB has got to be a bit of a diva . When they get touched late they throw a bit of a hissy . Why ... cause in there mind their to important to scratch , they believe the only chance the other team has , is to take them out . Oh , and don't run the wrong route cause we worked on that time and time again .

The other end of the spectrum is HWNSNBS . He got beat like Randall Cobb vs Larry Holmes . What did he do ? He got up and took it some more . Why ... he knew he couldn't gripe cause he was a slacker . He wasn't going to decide the outcome of a game unless of course it was a pick six . I'm thinking this is where Matt s at . He doesn't act like he should be on the same stage as Brady .
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Old 01-19-2013   #99
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
The SB loser scored 17 points or fewer 31 times, and between 18-21 points 8 times.

Many of them also had great QBs.

You also need a good defense to win it.

The winner score fewer than 28 points 22 times.
Some of the scores were not from the offense.

There had been 29 non-offensive TDs and 5 safeties scored, most of them by the winning team. (I did a rough count so the numbers may be off a bit.)

This doesn't include turnovers that set up the other team to score quickly.

There were at least 3 instances where the winning team scored fewer offensive points.

So, do you need an elite defense or an elite QB?
It looks like a toss-up to me.
Well we defiantly don't have an elite QB so lets build this defense into an elite one.
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Old 01-19-2013   #100
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Well we defiantly don't have an elite QB so lets build this defense into an elite one.
I remember the time when all the guys on defense were saying that they look forward to take this defense to the number one spot.

Big Fail, LOL!
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