All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

I agree with much of your post, except the last sentence.

I don't think that this will be an interesting team to watch. I think there will be a lot of hoping, high expectations and dashed hopes.

I'm saying it will be interesting to see watch the Ravens in 2013. They're going to pay Flacoo somewhere close to $20M/yr & try to replace Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. They're going to have 8 games against play off teams, plus two against the Steelers, and one against the Lions. That's 11 of 16 games.

It's going to be tough.

[TejasTom]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

... that's how I found out he was arrested for assault. Which is ironic given his non-confrontational on-field demeanor.

I'm pretty sure he was trying get away from a fight and fell on a bystander.

[deucetx]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

yep, which goes back to my original point. When you can make a reasonable argument to start TJ Yates over Matt Schaub, that says a lot about our starting QB.

As far as Vance87 thinking it's fortune telling, it's really more about the past and studying history.

And the history that really matters is in the post-season. Like Jules Winnfield said, TJ Yates and Matt Schaub are equal in that regard, both beating the Bengals and losing in the 2nd round. Both QBs are 1-1 in the playoffs.

We should hope for more from Schaub than equaling the performance of a 5th round rookie.

Don't you think that is a bit of a too blanket comparison? I know the media has it built in where winning and losing is all on the quarterback but the truth is at the end of the day it is a team game. Neither of these guys are the types that can take a team upon themselves and despite ill production from other elements go get us a win against top tier teams. That's just the truth of it right now.

But saying their playoff performances equal just because of where they took us is a stretch. Yates had to do nothing but management in the playoffs.

Yates - 29/55 343yards 1 TD 3 INT 63.25 QBR
Schaub - 63/89 605yards 2TD 2 INT 87 QBR

Sorry but this isn't even close. Not in a single playoff game last year did Yates even throw for 200 yards. Against the Ravens he had a potent running game with Foster running for 132yards with a 4.9 average and our offense easily outgained the Ravens because our defense was on point and shut Rice down (60yards with a 2.0avg) and did strong against Flacco yet we still lose? Many want to do the 'Blame Jacoby!' but the fact of the matter Yates telegraphed and pressed his passes into 3 interceptions and that hurt us just as much as Jacoby if not more.

So their two appearences were not equal. Not in the slightest. The Patriots game our defense was freaking horrible and couldn't even line up correctly so that lost wasn't soley on Schaub. Put Schaub in that game against the Ravens last year and we most likely win because he's not going to go around flinging 3 interceptions.

And I say this as someone who isn't a Schaub fan but a bit more realistic about what we have. Yates has yet to demonstrate anything to make him starter material. Maybe this offseason that can change but past work? Umm...no.

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I'm saying it will be interesting to see watch the Ravens in 2013. They're going to pay Flacoo somewhere close to $20M/yr & try to replace Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. They're going to have 8 games against play off teams, plus two against the Steelers, and one against the Lions. That's 11 of 16 games.

It's going to be tough.

Got it. Agree. They will have a tough schedule next year.

[buddyboy]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

I'm not the the hole.

If you defend Matt you are the hole ...

These are the least constructive posts I've ever seen.

Back on topic, this whole, "Yates has accomplished the same, therefore he is equal or better" argument is fallacy. It very well may be that Yates is has more potential, hell, he might be better than Schaub now. I'm not going to make that call.

But to base it on THAT reason is pathetic and obviously cherry picking statistics. Look at both games that ended our seasons, 2012 and 2013. Look at the play of not only the QB, but the defense, the running game, and the ST. In fact, look at them throughout the two seasons (Yates' will have to be extrapolated), and it's OBVIOUS that unlike certain posters have said, that while the argument can be made, it's not a legitimate argument.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I don't recall anyone stating that the players hated Kubiak or that they were being disrespected by Mcnair and management for keeping Kubiak around. Hell, even some of the people that hate Kubiak the most over the years haven't reached that far on their agendas to blast Kubiak. You're right that I've never seen any players blast Kubiak. Only the opposite. Not that I can recall any way. This recent part of the discussion was about whether or not if the players on the team were being disrespected because the team wouldn't release Schaub.

You have always been a pretty intelligent person DB. Surely, you can agree that is a far stretch for an agenda of hyperbole. The Texans are a pretty tight nit team and have been for years. And if we were to suggest that the team is being disrespected, shouldn't we be saying that about every player that isn't playing that well or that hit a slump towards the end of the year? Not only that, but the team can't just release their starting QB when there are cap implications and when they don't have a good replacement. They just signed Schaub so there is no way they would release him now. Suggesting that Mcnair is disrespecting the other 52 members of the team is comical considering the situation.

My entire point was that some folks are acting like the lack of public comments from the players means they all support him. And you, of all folks, have used that to defend Shaub.

By the same logic, nobody has ever publicly criticized Kubiak. So by logical extension, this should be seen as a good sign for Kubiak. Yet, you don't like Kubiak and dismiss this aspect.

See, agendas can be twisted to any sort of perception.

My own take is that neither Kubiak or Schaub have what it takes to win a Lombardi, but I realize we we stuck with these two for many more years. We can enjoy winning seasons and some playoff runs in the meantime, but temper expectations with reality.

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

How do you even compare the two? You make this statement as if they are two boxers or MMA fighters who fought the same dude and there weren't a ton of other players that impacted the both games. Not exactly the same when they both played two teams, and when Yates threw for what 3 or 4 picks? Schaub didn't play great by any stretch, but I don't see how that tells one thing as far as a comparison. We could have had Flacco out there or Eli Manning and still lost to the Patriots and the Ravens in both of those games. Schaub's play did fall off towards the end of the season for sure though. There is no denying that.

Yates won't be our starter for any long term situation. We'll end up bringing in some other guy at some point or we'll draft someone else. Yates might get a shot at it for a while if Schaub struggles next season, but I highly doubt that he'll keep the job for any long stretch.

Originally Posted by deucetx

Don't you think that is a bit of a too blanket comparison? I know the media has it built in where winning and losing is all on the quarterback but the truth is at the end of the day it is a team game. Neither of these guys are the types that can take a team upon themselves and despite ill production from other elements go get us a win against top tier teams. That's just the truth of it right now.

But saying their playoff performances equal just because of where they took us is a stretch. Yates had to do nothing but management in the playoffs.

Yates - 29/55 343yards 1 TD 3 INT 63.25 QBR
Schaub - 63/89 605yards 2TD 2 INT 87 QBR

Sorry but this isn't even close. Not in a single playoff game last year did Yates even throw for 200 yards. Against the Ravens he had a potent running game with Foster running for 132yards with a 4.9 average and our offense easily outgained the Ravens because our defense was on point and shut Rice down (60yards with a 2.0avg) and did strong against Flacco yet we still lose? Many want to do the 'Blame Jacoby!' but the fact of the matter Yates telegraphed and pressed his passes into 3 interceptions and that hurt us just as much as Jacoby if not more.

So their two appearences were not equal. Not in the slightest. The Patriots game our defense was freaking horrible and couldn't even line up correctly so that lost wasn't soley on Schaub. Put Schaub in that game against the Ravens last year and we most likely win because he's not going to go around flinging 3 interceptions.

And I say this as someone who isn't a Schaub fan but a bit more realistic about what we have. Yates has yet to demonstrate anything to make him starter material. Maybe this offseason that can change but past work? Umm...no.

While I certainly appreciate all those words for little ol' me, please understand that I am not advocating anything for TJ Yates. Dude is a back up QB.

That being said, Schaub ain't all that, either. Maybe 2010 Schaub was something, but what we ended up with last season is what it is. A very immobile, noodle-armed QB whose arm either wore out or has lost it's strength, and makes very questionable decisions in big games. None of those traits are a good thing, but all three in today's league? Signs of futility in our future.

Schaub is not even a poor-man's version of Trent Dilfer right now, so that argument doesn't even hold water to hope that we can be the Texans version of the 2000 Ravens.

Hey, y'all might believe different, and probably do, and that's fine. I'm just basing my opinions on what I saw at the end of 2012, and that's who Schaub is right now. Dude is a pedestrian QB who will need Herculean players around him and on defense, because he's not the guy who will put this team on his back and win games.

I want to like the guy. I want to root for him. As a Texans fan, I want great things for all these dudes. But what I want does not blind me to the fact of what is in front of our eyes. I'm going to hope for the best, but I will straight up tell you that my expectations are very low as long as we have mediocre people in key positions.

[GP]

Originally Posted by GNTLEWOLF

The only problem with an open QB competition in camp is... who decides who won the competition?. It is going to be Kubiak. Kubiak who played golf with Schaub before signing him. Kubiak who believes in Schaub, who has made Schaub the QB that he wants. Loyal to the point of blindness Kubiak. I don't see any possibility of there ever being a real open camp competition. If one ever happens the outcome will be foreordained with this Head Coach.

Maybe so.

It doesn't help that the ownership signed a check for Schaub after Game 1 of the 2012 season, as well. Everybody's all-in on Schaub.

You know in that Austin Powers movie where Dr. Evil steals Austin's mojo? It's like Flacco traveled back in time, to early September 2012, and stole Matt's mojo.

Personally, I'd cut Schaub and save the $4 million that someone speculated we could still save if he's not on our roster. If that's right, of course.

[chenjy9]

I don't care if the QB is Keenum or Yates. I just know that we need a QB who looks to throw it down field past the 1st down marker when he gets forced out of the packet, not this gimpy QB who looks to either throw it out immediately or check down to some player well behind the first down line and hope they bail him out. Schaub has not shown me anything that causes me to believe he can lead us anywhere that one of our backups cannot.

[Jules Winnfield]

Originally Posted by Vance87

If you think Yates can do better than 12-4, you're out of your freaking mind. He was 3-3 including the playoffs (I don't count the Titans game) With a way better defense and running game.

And by the way, we had the toughest schedule in the AFC last year. Yes, it's true, don't doubt me.

he went 3-3 when he was a rookie 3 string 5th round pick thrust into the starting line up with no training camp, no off season work out. Yet he was basically able to accomplish what matt schaub, a veteran in his early 30s, half a decade of experience as texans qb did this whole season.

you dont seem to get the entire point. the fact that we are comparing tj yates, a rookie, to a veteran qb.

I dont even like tj yates. i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.

What i dont want is yeaaa matt schaub will put up stats and choke in big games, that's ok b/c we in the playoffs and we win a weak afc south.

I want upward momentum. I want a proactive approach into improving the qb position. I dont care if matt has to play out a couple more years in his contract, in order to prepare a successor.

What i dont want is the status quo lets stick with matt schaub and not look to improve.

[Vance87]

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

he went 3-3 when he was a rookie 3 string 5th round pick thrust into the starting line up with no training camp, no off season work out. Yet he was basically able to accomplish what matt schaub, a veteran in his early 30s, half a decade of experience as texans qb did this whole season.

you dont seem to get the entire point. the fact that we are comparing tj yates, a rookie, to a veteran qb.

I dont even like tj yates. i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.

What i dont want is yeaaa matt schaub will put up stats and choke in big games, that's ok b/c we in the playoffs and we win a weak afc south.

I want upward momentum. I want a proactive approach into improving the qb position. I dont care if matt has to play out a couple more years in his contract, in order to prepare a successor.

What i dont want is the status quo lets stick with matt schaub and not look to improve.

Well if in your world "basically the same" is 20-8 and 3-3, respectively, I can't argue with you any longer.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

I dont even like tj yates. i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.

If they were to do that, you'd skin Kubiak alive for not making the play offs (if we didn't make the play offs). So why would he take that chance.

The goal is the Super Bowl, best path is to get to the play offs.

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

What i dont want is yeaaa matt schaub will put up stats and choke in big games, that's ok b/c we in the playoffs and we win a weak afc south.

What i dont want is the status quo lets stick with matt schaub and not look to improve.

I like Tj Yates, but his best trait, is that no one's seen him in over a year. Matt's going to do his thing in the regular season. He's not going to play bad enough to get yanked, he'll win games & he'll put us on track to get to the play offs.

But he might get hurt. I'm not hoping he gets hurt, just throwing it out there. Then it's up to Tj Yate to play like Joe Flacco & become our franchise QB.

If Flacco could do it, why not Tj? And for that matter Matt. That's why he won't get benched. Matt doesn't have the physical tools of Flacco or Yates, but he's been a better QB during the regular season for the last 5 years. So if Joe can do it, I see no reason why Matt can't.

It's not that Matt has to become fleet of foot, or increase his arm strength. All he's got to do is gain confidence in his receivers & give them a chance to make a play. They, of course, have to make that play, like Posey in the end zone.

[Vance87]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

If they were to do that, you'd skin Kubiak alive for not making the play offs (if we didn't make the play offs). So why would he take that chance.

Someone who gets it

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.

Someone who doesn't.

[CloakNNNdagger]

An interesting national piece I just came across.

Whispers [From ProFootballWeekly]

Was injury behind Schaub's late-season issues?

Posted Feb. 09, 2013 @ 6:39 p.m. ET
By PFW staff

Here are the latest Whispers we're hearing from our sources throughout the NFL:

• What was the reason behind Texans QB Matt Schaub’s struggles down the stretch in 2012? Is it possible that an undisclosed injury played a part? The Texans will say adamantly that wasn’t the case. Ditto for Schaub. But for a player as prickly about his injury-prone label as Schaub, coming off a fresh contract extension and with the biggest expectations of his career on his shoulders, it is possible, we hear, that Schaub didn’t want to reveal an injury that might have adversely affected his play, for fear that it would only increase his dubious reputation for always being nicked up. He never even appeared on the injury report last season, despite a number of big shots, including having part of his ear removed by Broncos LB Joe Mays. The one thing we know for sure is that Schaub’s accuracy and effectiveness waned in the final quarter of the season.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

An interesting national piece I just came across.

It still makes no sense to me that Schaub would play in the meaningless Pro Bowl if he should have been resting/healing up his injury so he can be 100% for next season. If it was his first Pro Bowl, I understand, but this is his second & he was the MVP of the last one he was in.

However, what really worried me was this bit:

• ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported prior to the Super Bowl that Ravens free-agent S Ed Reed could be on the way to Indianapolis, where he would be reunited with head coach Chuck Pagano. We hear that connection makes a ton of sense, as the Colts sorely lacked a playmaker on the back end of the defense a season ago, and Reed and Pagano have a strong relationship. However, the scuttlebutt could be Reed’s contract demands. If he is looking for a long-term deal, it isn’t likely to come from the Colts, who won’t be willing to invest heavily on an aging, albeit future Hall of Fame safety, like Reed, who has had injury issues creep up of late.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

It still makes no sense to me that Schaub would play in the meaningless Pro Bowl if he should have been resting/healing up his injury so he can be 100% for next season. If it was his first Pro Bowl, I understand, but this is his second & he was the MVP of the last one he was in.

It makes a good deal of sense if he is dealing with mostly escalating foot pain from post traumatic changes, early arthritis and even minimal foot instability, neither of which are likely to be significantly adversely affected by one extra game (which could have been in his mind his ticket to rehabbing some of his in-season compromised reputation).......and a situation unlikely to be greatly improved with an intermediate period of rest that is followed by another long foot-wearing season. Can you think back to the last time you saw Schaub give us his past years' signature play action jump passes. It wouldn't have been this year. That maneuver would require jumping off of his right dominant foot......and then coming down on it hard.

[Brisco_County]

Despite his subpar performance at the Pro Bowl, it's interesting that he was able to run for an 11 yard first down. He couldn't run for a first down all season, but he looked like an actual athlete after two weeks of rest. It lends to the observation that he was a completely different QB after the Detroit game. It's obvious that the condition of his foot is affecting him. So the question is: Will it be more durable after an offseason of rest?

[Jules Winnfield]

Originally Posted by Brisco_County

Despite his subpar performance at the Pro Bowl, it's interesting that he was able to run for an 11 yard first down. He couldn't run for a first down all season, but he looked like an actual athlete after two weeks of rest. It lends to the observation that he was a completely different QB after the Detroit game. It's obvious that the condition of his foot is affecting him. So the question is: Will it be more durable after an offseason of rest?

Another great moment for Matt Schaub, the pro bowl legend.




its the probowl. its basically flag football for defense out there.

[Brisco_County]

Just throwing this out there.

Sources have told WalterFootball.com that Cousins' football IQ is tremendous. Having him in the meeting room helped Griffin to develop, and the two quarterbacks worked extremely well together. With Griffin coming off a knee injury, Cousins should see a lot of good developmental snaps with the starters during the spring OTAs and mini-camps.

Even though there are plenty of teams that could be interested in trading for Cousins, sources have told WalterFootball.com that the Redskins have zero interest in dealing him. Allen will assuredly listen to what another team would offer him, but Washington will not be shopping Cousins. He could be a needed fill-in for the Redskins in 2013 and they love having a reliable backup like Cousins.

Thus, the 2014 or 2015 offseason would be the time to shop Cousins. If he gets on the field and performs well, obviously he will drive up the price tag and Washington could hope to regain some of the first-round picks the team used to land Griffin.

Link

Around the time that the Redskins would presumably be willing to trade would be when Schaub's guaranteed money could be covered.

[Brisco_County]

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

Another great moment for Matt Schaub, the pro bowl legend.




its the probowl. its basically flag football for defense out there.

The post was about his physical ability to run, which hardly existed during the season.

[CloakNNNdagger]

From KFFL:

Texans | Owner thinks 2011 injury affected Matt Schaub in 2012

Houston Texans owner Bob McNair said he believes the foot injury QB Matt Schaub suffered during the 2011 season may have affected his play this season. "I think that the injury he had did slow him down some," McNair said. "He was probably in the back of his mind a little concerned about reinjuring his foot, and we certainly didn't want to see that happen. He's gonna work hard in the offseason on improving his foot speed, and I think that will happen."

2013-02-08 14:20:56 | Source: HoustonTexans.com - Nick Scurfield