LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak can’t rely on ‘the system’ he has to f

[76Texan]

We all know that Schaub doesn't have the biggest arm, far from that.

But I know he overthrew Andre Davis a few times; I remembered wishing that he had put a little more air under those balls.

But why harping on the details, we all knew he's somewhere under/over average in that department.

He's getting paid for less than the norm (if you prorated the contracts out to cover a whole career), why would you expect him to be much better than what he's getting paid for?

[GP]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

WTF are you talking about? He threw 5 long balls the entire game. & unless there's a play that i'm forgetting about, only 1 of them was underthrown.

1 was underthrown to Casey
1 was thrown perfectly to AJ in the end zone that he dropped
1 was overthrown to AJ in the end zone - int
1 was overthrown to Jean on the sideline- barely

the was another thrown deep but it was a pass interference on Davis

That's 1 damn clearly underthrown long pass of 5 on sunday.

& for the record, i never said any damn thing about it being a 1 game thing..He underthrows passes all the time...but so does every qb in the league...Just b/c the WR makes a play on it and comes down with it doesn't mean that they didn't have to slow down for it and adjust...or turn around to catch it doesn't mean it wasn't underthrown.

Someone listening to you would believe every single pass this dude threw was underthrown.

I sound ridiculous? you sound ridiculous...but i get it, that kinda stuff doesn't fit into your nice neat box...

There are certain throws of his that are always too short, mostly anything over 15 or 20 yards. Sometimes he overthrows, though. Rarely has this guy ever hit a WR in perfect stride on a DEEP pass.

The timing throws, like slants and seam routes and stuff...those that are pretty flat on their trajectory...he can handle. Throwing up a really deep pass, though, he gets it to the moon and even a guy like Kevin Walter (slow as molasses) has to slow down.

If Kevin Walter is slowing down for your deep passes, brother you got a problem at QB on those throws.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

The strength of a QB's throw is primarily dependent on strength of chest muscles (mostly pec) AND strength of leg muscles transferred to the plant foot. That "repaired" back foot is what a QB relies on for that "umf" you speak of. Whether because of any residual instability of repair following the removal of his hardware, or stretching of the healed ligaments as the season has progressed, or simply from pain or tenderness (very common chronic progressive problem following repair of Lisfranc with fracture, just ask Marcus), any one of these will significantly affect velocity, distance and accuracy. All of these will be a major factor in maintaining "balance." If you are trying to compensate for any of the things I mentioned, you will try to avoid placing stress on the affected areas. This easily compromises the consistency of all aspects of a QB's passing game. When you lose the ability to fully balance in motion using your back foot as main support, you are forced to regain some of that balance with the increased use of that front foot rather than solely allowing it to work for aiming balance. This can easily account for the awkward final positions of his front foot, something I've coincidentally also discussed with several MB members in the past.

Schaub no doubt is wearing a nonyielding full-length orthotic shoe insert or sole to avoid undue stresses on the ball of his foot that would transmit those stresses to the Lisfranc area.......in other words, trying to avoid recreating the forces that led to the injury in the first place.





The fact that this orthotic does not allow the free bending of the ball of the foot joint area, should make it clear that "push off" with his plant foot would require in itself some adjustment to mechanics.

To make it more simple to understand. Fashion a plank of plywood. Stick it in your sneakers. Put a pair of socks on...............but before that, put a small pebble in it near the back end of your instep (arch) to replicate some "discomfort." Feel free to use a larger rock for greater "discomfort." Then tie your laces up tightly. Now go out there, run around, and try passing the football around. You may find that things don't work out too well for you.........and less and less as you are out there longer and longer.

To put it mildly , Schaub is damaged goods and isnt going to get any better over the long haul.
He'll have that plywood and rock in his shoe for the duration ....

[Say Watt]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

To put it mildly , Schaub is damaged goods and isnt going to get any better over the long haul.
He'll have that plywood and rock in his shoe for the duration ....

And our front office was intelligent enough to give him an extension before the season...

[GuerillaBlack]

Originally Posted by Say Watt

And our front office was intelligent enough to give him an extension before the season...

No, just one game. That was all they needed to see before giving him 24.5M guaranteed.

[GP]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

No, just one game. That was all they needed to see before giving him 24.5M guaranteed.

Yep. Immediately after the game it was tweeted by various Houston sports media yayhoos that Rick and Bob gave Matt a new deal.

I mean, talk about premature ejaculation of cash and contract terms!

Sheesh, what a frigging dumb thing to do. It's as if they did that to quash the whole Peyton Manning situation whereby Kubiak told Matt (jokingly) to go get Manning at the airport. Yeah, he has a great game in Game 1 of a 16-game season and by gawd! let's get this awesome QB locked up.

"Look! LOOK! We got us a great QB too! We're juuuuust fine here in Houston!"

Reeks of P.R. move, to me. But hell, we were so high on our own fumes that we couldn't see it for that. Look back on it now, though.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by GP

Yep. Immediately after the game it was tweeted by various Houston sports media yayhoos that Rick and Bob gave Matt a new deal.

I mean, talk about premature ejaculation of cash and contract terms!

Sheesh, what a frigging dumb thing to do. It's as if they did that to quash the whole Peyton Manning situation whereby Kubiak told Matt (jokingly) to go get Manning at the airport. Yeah, he has a great game in Game 1 of a 16-game season and by gawd! let's get this awesome QB locked up.

"Look! LOOK! We got us a great QB too! We're juuuuust fine here in Houston!"

Reeks of P.R. move, to me. But hell, we were so high on our own fumes that we couldn't see it for that. Look back on it now, though.

msr

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

msr

LOL

Got him

[GP]

Makes one wonder if this "meltdown" we're having is due to Schaub's premature contract.

You think any of those guys don't sit there from time to time and second-guess Matt's potential, too?

I think Foster earned his. Myers earned his. Brown, as well.

But when guys like 'Meco and Winston and Brisiel and Dressen are walking (for various reasons) and then this organization gives MATT SCHAUB a guaranteed deal after the very first game???

Sometimes people are not as loyal as old Gary Don Kubiak. That is a plausible reason that this team, its core leaders, are barely treading water. You gotta dig deep into the suitcase of courage at this time of year in the NFL. These guys are barely flinching that they got smoked in two HFA-clinching attempts. Andre is, to me, the only one who's like "Goddammit! My time is almost up! YOU HEAR ME?" Everyone else is almost really just coasting. WHY? It's not just fluke loss of momentum. There's deeper stuff. Think about the Ben Tate episodes too. I don't think guys appreciated how Gary treated Ben in the media. I think Gary's a SMALL person when the curtains are pulled back. IMO.

The Broncos are showing that they 100% will lay down their lives and do whatever it takes. Why? Leadership. Consistent, reliable, quantifiable leadership from their QB. Period.

That knowledge that you, as a defense or any other player out there, can literally fly like there's no tomorrow because your QB is ready to go. He got you. Do what you do. Forehead GOT you. At the endo f the day, I have to respect that as a fan of football. I have to absolutely stand up, clap my hands at the TV, and congratulate any of these teams who went out on limbs to do WHATEVER it took.

Carroll choosing unknown Wilson over Flynn, and sticking by him.

Harbaugh for benching Smith and trying Kap. For signing a damn KICKER today to compete against the veteran Akers. Right before the playoffs!

Shanahan for trusting RGIII and that Baylor system he ran so well.

Colts for tanking in 2011 and then not only getting Luck but letting him run the Stanford system more or less.

Patriots for taking chances on castaways and teaching us all that every "would be star" just wants a chance to play for a winner.

The list is long. Teams are shaking things up out there. Like DB said, we're getting passed by but hell..we were never "there" anyways. That's why so many in the media wouldn't give us that "love" we wanted, btw. We see why. Now.

[GP]

The Texans were wise, P.R. wise.

They got out ahead of Peyton's progressively better performances as the season was wearing on.

By signing Schaub early, and running wreck over teams--even Peyton's Broncos--you felt like, "Man! We DID make the right choice!" You didn't want a Schitty Schaub at the end of the season and UH-OH! what.in.the.hell? you mean Peyton's team has a bye and looks way better than Schaub???

This way, Schaub is forced upon you. Locked up. Now we gots cap ramifications, too, so..uhh.umm..well...we can't move him NOW!

This might be my best conspiracy theory YET!

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by GP

The Texans were wise, P.R. wise.

They got out ahead of Peyton's progressively better performances as the season was wearing on.

By signing Schaub early, and running wreck over teams--even Peyton's Broncos--you felt like, "Man! We DID make the right choice!" You didn't want a Schitty Schaub at the end of the season and UH-OH! what.in.the.hell? you mean Peyton's team has a bye and looks way better than Schaub???

This way, Schaub is forced upon you. Locked up. Now we gots cap ramifications, too, so..uhh.umm..well...we can't move him NOW!

This might be my best conspiracy theory YET!

Schaub isnt forced upon us .... they can cut him after next season with minimal cap damage. As Badboy pointed out in one of the mock threads .... Smith gave him a very team friendly contract.


Dont know why you bring Pey-Me-A-Ton into the conversation again .... dude was far more expensive than the Texans could afford due to the cap .... and he was damaged goods. No one really knew if he could return from that neck injury.

The Bronco's were in perfect position to take the gamble ..... They had a zero at QB along with the cap space to get a deal done.

[DX-TEX]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

Schaub isnt forced upon us .... they can cut him after next season with minimal cap damage. As Badboy pointed out in one of the mock threads .... Smith gave him a very team friendly contract.


Dont know why you bring Pey-Me-A-Ton into the conversation again .... dude was far more expensive than the Texans could afford due to the cap .... and he was damaged goods. No one really knew if he could return from that neck injury.

The Bronco's were in perfect position to take the gamble ..... They had a zero at QB along with the cap space to get a deal done.

There was talk that Peyton would have taken less from Houston. It was the only spot he REALLY wanted to go to so he could stick it to Irsay twice a year. After we rejected him he moved on and the bidding commenced. None of this will ever be confirmed until after he retires Im sure.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by GP

I think the future of the NFL is in small, mobile QBs who have big fast WRs.

Russell Wilson and the Seahawks is the prime example.

Pete Carroll might have just become the next Bill Belichick in terms of finally learning what it takes to win in the NFL. Bill struggled multiple times before landing in N.E. and then stumbling upon Tom Brady...and even then, he had not employed the spread offense that eventually Tom Brady led into great success.

Pete should have started Matt Flynn, based on the standard "rules" of what happens when you pay a Qb a starter's salary. Pete, though, decided to go with a gut instinct. And I think the Seahawks might just play in the SB because of it.

They're legitimately dangerous now.

You have to go on gut instincts, and Kubiak and Smith just can't do that. It's still very old school to them. Loyalty and methodical plodding is the order of the day. Kubiak would never go for a fake punt when he's up on a team by 3 or 4 scores...Pete has learned what Bill learned: Eff 'em.

We're nice, as if we're to believe that the football gods prefer gentlemen and scholars. Look what it gets us.

Lets see if Pete Carroll can win a few playoff games and then a few SB's before anyone even remotely calls him the potentially the next BB of the NFL. BB has won 3 out of 5 SB's as a HC and won 2 SB's as a DC.

Carroll doesn't even have anything to be mentioned in the same breath as BB as of now. He has a great college career, but he hasn't built anything to compare him to BB as of yet. He's got at least 3 SB appearances before that takes place.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by DX-TEX

There was talk that Peyton would have taken less from Houston. It was the only spot he REALLY wanted to go to so he could stick it to Irsay twice a year. After we rejected him he moved on and the bidding commenced. None of this will ever be confirmed until after he retires Im sure.

Its already been refuted .... Just put on your and wait a decade or so.


Point blank , Bob Allen gave bad information. Just the media being the media trying to make a mountian out of a molehill .... Do you really believe Pey-Me-A-Ton would leave $10m on the table ?! (thats the difference between Schaub and Manning this year roughly.)


Never waste a controversy.

[playa465]

The Good
The Bad
and
The Ugly

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

Its already been refuted .... Just put on your and wait a decade or so.


Point blank , Bob Allen gave bad information. Just the media being the media trying to make a mountian out of a molehill .... Do you really believe Pey-Me-A-Ton would leave $10m on the table ?! (thats the difference between Schaub and Manning this year roughly.)


Never waste a controversy.

I was just as frustrated as anybody that we didn't at least "try" to get Manning, but I know that we didn't have the chance financially, so it's a moot point really. Way to many moves they would have been able to make personel wise to free up the cap space. Also, Rick Smith is incapable of being able to accomplish that regardless of how hard he could try. When it comes to blockbuster moves, Rick Smith is way to conservative to ever go after a blockbuster deal like that with full force.

I don't know why people keep bringing up Manning. It doesn't matter now any way. We have what we have. Might as well discuss what we can do going forward as opposed to these mental masturbation arguments of how we could have landed Manning.

[gtexan02]

Remember in 2009 when we always had guys open in the middle of the field for 15 yard gains plus YAC? What happened to that?


The difference is not Schaub so much as it is play call and separation. I don't see guys open like I did 3 years ago. Is it because we don't have the personnel? Is it because we don't have the playcalls? That's not on Schaub

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by DX-TEX

There was talk that Peyton would have taken less from Houston. It was the only spot he REALLY wanted to go to so he could stick it to Irsay twice a year. After we rejected him he moved on and the bidding commenced. None of this will ever be confirmed until after he retires Im sure.

Not 'that' much less from Houston. The Texans still couldn't have afforded him. Admitting anything less is simply disingenous.


**********

At the end of the day, Schaub's lack of production lately comes down to what DocJean (aka CnD) predicted based on his knowledge of Schaub's Linsfranc fracture...

**********

I guess the Texans will have to figure out a way to win in other ways. For example: How about the Texans "D" getting off the field. As I understand it (and I have not re-watched the Colts game), The Colts got the ball with (9:46 left in the 4th). That said, the Texans used their timeouts, but never got the ball back.

Seriously? The Colts got the ball with 9:46 left in the 4th and the Texans never touched the ball again? BTW, the Colts ran out 9:46 of the clock and they're not a prolific rushing team.

I'm not defending Schaub, but at the same time, yeah..... this team has issues!

This team has just as big problems in other phases of the game.

[Textan]

In a nutshell; Schaub's not an all-star QB. Kubiak keeps trying the same magic even after our opponents have made adjustments/homework to those very same plays he keeps calling over and over again.
That gigantic plastic, laminated play card is just a prop in an effort to try and intimidate, but other teams know only five or so plays are ever used from it.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Textan

In a nutshell; Schaub's not an all-star QB. Kubiak keeps trying the same magic even after our opponents have made adjustments/homework to those very same plays he keeps calling over and over again.
That gigantic plastic, laminated play card is just a prop in an effort to try and intimidate, but other teams know only five or so plays are ever used from it.

Kubiak is not the quickest to change and adapt. He does, though. I think we are looking at a painful lesson this year and a quick exit from the playoffs. I believe Kubiak will assess the season and realize he failed to adjust after the Cushing injury and redirect the offense to an aggressive and attacking offense that used the pass to set up the run (2008, 2009 and 2010). Moving forward, he won't make that mistake again. Unfortunately, that doesn't help us this year. Fortunately, though, the team is set up for continued success and some of the pain we experienced this year will be addressed with personnel additions... We should have 11 or 12 draft picks and very little dead money eating away at our cap.

Though our head coach and QB are not elite, they are good and they are committed. Furthermore, we have a very good coaching staff and wealth of young talent, high character and committed players, an owner who wants to win, lots of draft picks, JJ Watt, Cushing, Joseph, ASmith, Quin, KJackson, DBrown, Foster, Tate, AJ, OD, Myers... We will have a good shot again next year. We are now one of the elite organizations and we are experiencing what they all experience most seasons. New England has gone how many years since they won a Superbowl?... with Tom Brady and Belichek in place. McNair's philosophy and willingness to stick with Kubiak and Smith after 2010 has paid off. We can expect to win double-digits again next year and playoff success will ultimately come down to variables like health, playoff matchups, and whether the team is peaking at the right time.

This season is not going to end well, but the team is positioned well and one disappointing finish should not be over-analyzed. Remember, the same head coach won the division and a playoff game with a 3rd string, rookie QB last season and threatened advancing to the AFC Championship game. It is not as though he has not shown the ability to win big games or get a lot out of limited talent in high pressure situations.