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Old 12-26-2012   #101
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I really am wondering if we watch the same games & you guys need to make up your minds. 1 guy's talking about mobility as in extending plays, another's talking about him tucking and running type mobility. If it extending plays with his mobility, Schaub routinely does this on bootlegs once he realizes he cannot go deep.
matter fact one of my biggest criticisms of him is that he likes to hold on to the ball too long going through his progressions off of those bootlegs and just doesn't throw it away even when someone's got him in their grasp....See the Detroit game where Suh should've been called for a horsecollar as schaub's releasing the ball...that play by definition is him extending a play b/c he had to side-step to get it off.

he also routinely steps into the pocket to extend plays once pressure comes from the outside.....He does this just fine when he's in the shotgun, but yes he does have issues doing that when he's got to come from under center. Again, see the detroit game and the broncos game this year...There are number of plays where he does just this in those games and really throughout the season.

just b/c he's not tucking and running doesn't mean that the guy is this immobile statue back there and he's not capable of making a play. he's not that running guy..most qb's aren't that guy.
Please explain the bolded.
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Old 12-26-2012   #102
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LOL at using the bootleg as an example of extending a play.

It's a designed roll out.
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Old 12-26-2012   #103
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

i would shoot myself if we got A.Smith and dumped Schaub!
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Old 12-26-2012   #104
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
I was really surprised when I saw that. I wouldn't have voted for him. Oh yeah, I didn't.
Well, it wasn't the fans who voted him in so it must have been the other players and the coaches.

Pfffft, but what do those guys know about football.
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Old 12-26-2012   #105
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Spare me your BS I can think of lots of unanswerable questions routine. Frankly it is particularly lame in this context - same OL so absolutely no reason to believe they were suddenly allowing a greater pass rush. My eyes tell me Schaub with his physical ability limitations is better at avoiding pressure than Yates - not on individual plays, yes Yates will sometimes pull something out which Schaub could not, but over the course of a game or season). Once again, the stats are there as a confirmation.

Schaub definitely has limitations but this across the board bashing has become freaking ridiculous.
OK THEN!!!

Matt Sschaub -- 19 rushing attempts -8 yards. The only QB worse than him is Ryan Mallet a backup who seldom ever plays. There's your stat! A 35 year old Tom Brady managed 35 yards on just a few more carries. How in the hell Can a QB on a team with arguably the best play action and bootleg plays in the entire NFL manage to have negative yards rushing? I mean I don't expect Vick type numbers but CMON MAN!!!!

I will say this. Maybe just maybe Kubiak doesn't trust him enough to let him run upfield on those bootlegs when he's wide open. Maybe he tells him just throw it away. Either way it's time to start looking for an upgrade at QB. Whether that means bringing in a FA to challenge Schaub or drafting a young one with more potential than Yates or the other hacks we've brought in the last few years and developing them to take over for Slothy in the next couple of years.
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Old 12-26-2012   #106
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
LOL at using the bootleg as an example of extending a play.

It's a designed roll out.
But Rey, to be fair, it makes no sense!
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Old 12-26-2012   #107
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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OK THEN!!!

Matt Sschaub -- 19 rushing attempts -8 yards.
OK Forrest. Put the chocolate back in the box. I was talking avoiding pass pressure. Your rushing attempt stat is both hypocritical and irrelevant.
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Old 12-26-2012   #108
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Please explain the bolded.
When we run the bootleg and its not effective, there's not always someone open for him to get the ball out to immediately. Alot of the times here lately, teams haven't even been biting on it. In any event, he more often than not will sit there for a second or so waiting for OD or whomever to clear or come back to the ball. Usually by this time the defense has reacted and are actively closing in on him....That's when he'll start sliding laterally to the sideline to buy just a little more time for his guys to get open....extending the play. A great example of this is in the 2nd qtr. of the minny game around 6 minutes to go. The pass was not completed, but no one was open & he strung it out as long as he could.. Many of the times for me, he holds onto the ball a little to long in these instances when it's obvious nothing's there.

Yeah it's a design rollout to give him time, but as of late, those things haven't even been working & teams have just been sending someone right at him not even worrying about chasing Arian down from the backside & He barely has time to get his head around.

This how i know you guys don't really watch what's going on.
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Old 12-26-2012   #109
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
OK Forrest. Put the chocolate back in the box. I was talking avoiding pass pressure. Your rushing attempt stat is both hypocritical and irrelevant.
That's totally inappropriate. It's lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous, egregious and preposterous. The stats are there as a confirmation that Schaub is as immobile as a sloth. When he rolls out and there is no one open he throws the ball away even if he has open field in front of him. Even when he does avoid the rush (usually by ducking his head and stumbling around) and no one is open he immediately throws the ball away instead of trying to extend the play or running to open field.
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Old 12-26-2012   #110
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
When we run the bootleg and its not effective, there's not always someone open for him to get the ball out to immediately. Alot of the times here lately, teams haven't even been biting on it. In any event, he more often than not will sit there for a second or so waiting for OD or whomever to clear or come back to the ball. Usually by this time the defense has reacted and are actively closing in on him....That's when he'll start sliding laterally to the sideline to buy just a little more time for his guys to get open....extending the play. A great example of this is in the 2nd qtr. of the minny game around 6 minutes to go. The pass was not completed, but no one was open & he strung it out as long as he could.. Many of the times for me, he holds onto the ball a little to long in these instances when it's obvious nothing's there.

Yeah it's a design rollout to give him time, but as of late, those things haven't even been working & teams have just been sending someone right at him not even worrying about chasing Arian down from the backside & He barely has time to get his head around.

This how i know you guys don't really watch what's going on.
I agree with you he does this a lot. The real question is, is this Kubiak telling him not to run in those situations or is he just incapable? EIther way it proves my point that his legs are a liability. These are wasted opportunities that more often than not end up being drive killers.
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Old 12-26-2012   #111
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
That's totally inappropriate. It's lewd, lascivious, salacious...
Nothing sexual about his retort... ?
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Old 12-26-2012   #112
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
But Rey, to be fair, it makes no sense!
It does make sense.

These designed roll outs are easy arc's to run .... there are no sharp cuts or changes of direction that require sticking the foot in the ground and pushing off with significant force.
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Old 12-26-2012   #113
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

A. Smith was benched for a 2nd yr guy with "potential"

nuff said.
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Old 12-26-2012   #114
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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A. Smith was benched for a 2nd yr guy with "potential"

nuff said.
And it was a bad decision.
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Old 12-27-2012   #115
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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And it was a bad decision.
Yeah, what a bad decision it was to bench a QB that had one average season out of like 8 where he stunk it up the rest of the time. Sorry, but this Alex Smith stuff from you guys is incredible. He isn't wanted anywhere around the league. All he would be to any team is a stop gap guy that would have to compete with other guys that he'd probably lose to since he has never been able to keep his job. Kapernick looks damn good thus far. The guy had 4 TD's against the Patriots in one of their biggest games of the season. Harbaugh obviously knew some stuff about this guy that a lot of people didn't. Smith has had like 8 years to get better and show that he could be a great starter in this league, and the best he's been able to pull together is an average season. You guys keep talking about him as if he was Phillip Rivers from a few years ago or Big Ben or something.
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Old 12-27-2012   #116
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

Just go back and watch last years nfc championship game. Everybody remembers the turnovers as the deciding factor in the giants win. But alex smith couldnt hit water throwing from a boat in that game. I think he converted one third down the whole game. A. Smith just needed to be average and the niners would have gone to the super bowl.
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Old 12-27-2012   #117
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Yeah, what a bad decision it was to bench a QB that had one average season out of like 8 where he stunk it up the rest of the time. Sorry, but this Alex Smith stuff from you guys is incredible. He isn't wanted anywhere around the league. All he would be to any team is a stop gap guy that would have to compete with other guys that he'd probably lose to since he has never been able to keep his job. Kapernick looks damn good thus far. The guy had 4 TD's against the Patriots in one of their biggest games of the season. Harbaugh obviously knew some stuff about this guy that a lot of people didn't. Smith has had like 8 years to get better and show that he could be a great starter in this league, and the best he's been able to pull together is an average season. You guys keep talking about him as if he was Phillip Rivers from a few years ago or Big Ben or something.
No , I realize Smiths flaws .... He's much like Schaub .... pre lisfranc.



But making Kaepernick the starter mid-season was a mistake. The goal is to win a championship .... they were the best team in the NFC with Smith at QB because he didnt make mistakes , let their running game hurt teams and didnt put the defense in bad positions.
They have since lost 2 games and tied another .... often due to the mistakes made by Kaepernick. They arent a superbowl team with him at QB ....


They may be more exciting with Kaepernick .... but they aint better (Yet).


I bet if Harbaugh had it to do over again , he'd have gone back to Smith who was 20-6 as a starter during his tenure.
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Old 12-27-2012   #118
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
No , I realize Smiths flaws .... He's much like Schaub .... pre lisfranc.



But making Kaepernick the starter mid-season was a mistake. The goal is to win a championship .... they were the best team in the NFC with Smith at QB because he didnt make mistakes , let their running game hurt teams and didnt put the defense in bad positions.
They have since lost 2 games and tied another .... often due to the mistakes made by Kaepernick. They arent a superbowl team with him at QB ....


They may be more exciting with Kaepernick .... but they aint better (Yet).


I bet if Harbaugh had it to do over again , he'd have gone back to Smith who was 20-6 as a starter during his tenure.
They've continued with their pattern throughout this year...win 2 lose 1 with Kap. but 2 of Kap's wins have been against 2 pretty good teams. This also does not factor in that they've been pretty banged up on defense & they lost Justin Smith part way through the NE game; dude didn't play in the last Seattle game......... they've also lost manningham for the season & VD has been knicked up as well. So they may not "technically" be better as reflective of their record, but they haven't performed any worse either. They're still much more explosive with Kap than they were with Smith though. All in all, this is valuable experience for the young kid for next year.................just in time for us when we have to face the NFC west.......
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Old 12-27-2012   #119
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

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I agree with you he does this a lot. The real question is, is this Kubiak telling him not to run in those situations or is he just incapable? EIther way it proves my point that his legs are a liability. These are wasted opportunities that more often than not end up being drive killers.
I doubt it's kubiak telling him not to run, he's just incapable & its not a strong suite of his (understatement of the year)...but where we disagree is how much of a play is able to be made by him, or any other qb running the ball in those situations. You gotta remember, those bootlegs and waggles take those guys about 5-8 yards off the LOS minimum coming off the fake...

I seriously doubt that any qb's outside of Micheal Vick..maybe RG3 is going to be fast enough to make up for the 5-8 yds they're in the hole already and pick up 3-4 more to make the play even worth mentioning as a "positive" non-drive-killing play like you're saying.........& truthfully that's if they're not trying to find anyone downfield...that's basically turn and run...
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Old 12-27-2012   #120
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Default Re: Who's better Schaub or A Smith?

Our run game and bootleg don't work because teams are going to make Matt Schaub beat them. Better teams with smarter D-coordinators realize that.

Don't go out there and try to make spectacular plays. Stay true to your responsibility, load up on the run, don't bite on play-action. If you do that the the QB has almost zero chance of doing anything outside the box to make plays.

Of course the flip side of that is having your offense make some plays on our defense. If you turn the ball over and don't move the ball, we will beat you...even if it's based on a bunch of field goals....

But if you play solid defense and have an offense that can move the ball and put up points, I'm giving us 15% chance to win games.
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